1. If the Herbalizer was a fortune cookie what would it say? Tell us and win it!
  2. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.

e*skillet and essential oiler both the same thing

Discussion in 'ABV' started by whyblameus, Nov 5, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Absolutely, hoping to do just that. I ordered a couple of those new "Hash Oil Atomizers" from Gentlemen's Vape as well to add to the mix. It goes without saying you've got experience second to none in the area, which I greatly value.

    I know from experience how straight you shoot, and wouldn't have it any other way. Not to mention it's a good excuse to get together and shoot some of the proverbial breeze......

    OF
  2. DubCRider

    DubCRider Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    SF and beyond
    As usual, you bring the "canteens" and I'll fill them!
    OF likes this.
  3. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Great plan. When I get the carts we can do even more multitasking that we normally do! I want to get that done before the Holidays hit, so timing seems near perfect. Be interesting to see how these guys (and the other ones for that matter) stack up from a end user perspective.

    Be fun to catch up on things again. I always learn something from you, great perspectives, although sometimes it takes a bit of mulling over to sink in.

    OF
  4. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    recieved my kangers yesterday,

    fired it up dry a few times to see if nothing 'fumes', nothing to be seen.

    filled it up with .2g of some solid wax

    let it drip down with my torch, attached to my ego twist put to 4,8volt

    hit it, and for now i have to say, it hits much much harder then my DART does...Only thing is the taste that seems to be influenced by something, but i do not have a clue what...almost seems as if the temp goes up way to high.

    For now, I'm pretty much impressed by this 'poor mans' set-up...

    Eagerly awaiting the verdict of the experts on this ;)(ps I really mean that, OF you seem to be an authority on these things hihi)
  5. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    Yea I didnt have the fill tool so your videos were pretty helpfull. Im pretty sure I was doing everthing right but i could be wrong.

    Glad you will be testing these im interested to hear what you think.
  6. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    Im glad you like it so far.

    4.8 is pretty high even for the 2.8 ohm cartridge. So thats probably why the flavor is off. Cause it is getting to hot you are correct.
    Try it lower at around 4.0-4.2. That would be equal to me using the 2.0 ohm cartridge at 3.3-3.6. This should help the flavor alot.
    If you like the flavor at the lower voltage but dont feel your getting a good enough hit just remember the slower you hit it the thicker the vapor cause your mixing less air and it also cools the heating element less.

    Another user tip I feel it helps to stop hitting it when you stop pressing the button and not continue to hit trying to cool the coil. This helps melt more oil in place for the next hit. After doing this it may seem clogged the next time you go to hit it but its ok. just gently try to hit it and press the button it should start hitting fine in about 2 seconds or less. This is actually how I prefer it cause it gives me the best hits.
  7. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    lowered the voltage and the taste def improved...

    did a new run yesterday and day before, now of to get my new vacuum pump and purge it some more...

    i do prefer to hit it trough my water pipe wich makes it harder to determine when I have to release the buttom, but I attached it with some silicone so I can see when there is enough vapor or not. Will do some more testing today :-)
    DubCRider likes this.
  8. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    was a nice run, now relaxing, blowing of some 'steam' :science:

    tried my new oil in both the kanger with ego twist battery and the dart lv with the twist battery

    still a bit unsure wich I prefer...to be honest, for the clouds the kanger one seems to be giving me a lot more. But taste wise, I cannot but seem to be having this strange almost metallic like taste with it. No such thing on the dart...

    So I am now trying on even lower voltage to see if I can work something out with the kanger cartomizers that gives me a better flavor. Lowering voltage def did help, but not as much as I would have wanted.

    And, my first cart started to leak...

    So in short one might say, yes it delivers clouds, but it in my case also influences the taste in a not so nice way...But it knocks me of my feet, more then the dart does...and it started to leak after only 3days of use, approximately .4g of oil...

    So I guess it al depends hihi...
    OF likes this.
  9. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    How much are you loading?

    I think you may be running it low.

    At first I was thinking I dont know what metalic taste you could have been talking about, then I was hitting mine a few times and i think i taste what you are saying. It happens for me if I need to heat the cartridge with a lighter to melt the wax down a little. Or if its running low on wax.

    When running it low you will continue getting a hit but it gets kinda reclaimy and runs out the bottom easier. I just did this a few hours ago not paying attention to how much was left. You just need to clean it before refilling now.


    I recommend filling it about halfway up the side of the airtube. I dont weigh it. And if you start getting that taste or just aren't getting the hit you expect, look inside and check how much is left.if it looks like plenty then heat it a little with a lighter like when you load it.

    I also recommend cleaning them ever fill or 2 depending on how much you fill it with. This will help it from leaking and also help them last alot longer. I burnt out my first 2 cartridges in 2 days each just loading more and more into them without cleaning them. Since then cleaning them every fill I havnt burnt any out yet.

    Is the metalic taste faint or do you taste it a good amount?
    Its really faint for me when I do taste it.
  10. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    How is it you're cleaning them?

    I understand the not weighing the load part, but 'half way up' isn't working. Like half a gram? Perhaps another way, what was the total through the two that died in two days each?

    TIA, mine should be here shortly, I'd like a starting point.

    OF
  11. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    Cleaning I soak it in alcohol and swish it around alot. Then put it in boiling water for a minute and back into some clean alcohol. Repeat until it looks close to new inside. Doing the alcohol step last so hopefully it will dry faster. Shake it out, blow through it a few times and let it sit for a little wile to let any remaning alcohol evaporate. Then dryburn it a few times and your good to go.

    I think a half gram will be good.

    Im pretty sure I went through over a gram and a half of wax through each cartridge before they died.
  12. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Okay,

    I'll check out your tips whyblameus. Allready have one friend that is getting some crtomizers and a twist battery, he was blown away by it.

    The cleaning tips are nice too, I'll be cleaning mne first time this weekend then.

    And yes, I also noticed when the strange taste sets in I need to either reload or reheat the cartomizer.

    Also reloaded my dart after fully cleaning it, but no matter what I try, it does not give me the same results. Yes the taste is slightly better, but the effect laks a bit in comparison to the kanger stuff...

    will do more testing tonight during the GLOW festival in Eindhoven :-)

    Again, thx for al the good tips.
  13. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    I hope it helps.

    So I been thinking about making a adapter that would allow me to run 2 cartridges at once, then lastnight I just happened to find a place selling them on the net.
    http://www.madvapes.com/double-barrel-cartomizer-adapter.html
    Only $7.99 with a mouthpiece thats a great deal to me I figured it would cost me more then that to make one and it would never look that nice.

    I cant wait to hit 2 cartridges at once.
  14. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    877
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area

    Nice find, but are you going to need a higher resistance cart then the kanger?

    "Please remember the voltage that is needed to power your device. This device is recommended with single coil cartomizers and the total resistance must be figured. If your device is 3.7 volts and you vape well with a 1.5 ohm dual coil cartomizer, then 2- 3.2 ohm single coil cartomizers will work as the total resistance would be 1.6 ohms. In order to figure your ohms using 2 cartomizers, simply divide the resistance of the cartomizer you are using by 2. So if you are using two (2) 4 ohm single coil cartomizers your total resistance is 2 ohms."

    Or is that only when going from a dual coil to a single coil cart?

    Found this: www.myvaporstore.com/low_resistance_LR_atomizer_s/52.html
    Was getting some talk in a thread about the essential oiler, someone saying the clouds were about as good but the taste was better. Carts need to have a metal bridge removed then your oil is put directly on the element. Load size is smaller probably .2-.3 but the cart is smaller too.
  15. DubCRider

    DubCRider Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    SF and beyond
    OF came over today with a few different carts to try. We had the Kanger 2ohm and a Gentlemans brand "oil cartridge".

    Kanger- Decent sized hits out of this. I have seen this cart on other Vape brands but the names are slipping my mind. It's a bridgeless cart with a plastic-like flu. Nothing really off gassed or tasted weird. Before filling it, you could see light all the way through, which made the next thing more obvious. It leaked! I think we only loaded about .4 at this time. Cart gets the standard flu clog when oil covers the slits in the flu leading to the heater. It works when the oil doesn't leak out but that's about it, works.

    Gentlemans- this thing is small! It's basically a ceramic cup at the bottom surrounded by steel wool(I think) to hold it in place. Inside the cup is a coil that goes over a hole in the bottom for an air path. This thing cheifs through the oil! Loaded .4 and ripped .4 in one hit. The hit was big but I noticed the steel wool was bubbling with oil like some just soaked in to it rather than hit the coil. My issue with this cart it that it has no air path other than the hole at the bottom of the cup. We were using a jelly-like Co2 and had to clear a clog every hit. If we used shatter we would have clogged it beyond use. This is clearly only for viscous oils.

    My conclusion- The Kanger is better on many fronts. It has an attempt(flu) at keeping the air path free of clogs where the gentlemans just has a hole at the bottom. The Kanger conserves oil better, You better be made of oil to keep the gentlemans cart fed. Although I'm not a fan of the plastic looking flu on the Kanger I'm definitely not stoked on the steel wool type stuff in the gentlemans. I'm starting to wonder if they have a materials list on this cart. When clogged, the Kanger is easier to get hitting again. Rather than having the bulk of the oil directly blocking the air path like the gentlemans.

    The Kanger did not come close to the clouds I get from a 1.5ohm or 2.4ohm Omicron cart. With the bulk of the oil sitting close to the heater rather than being fed to it I see more leaks coming from the Kanger. Being able to see light through it was enough for me but we still had to test it, haha.

    I still have both carts and both were working after testing. I'll keep you guys posted on when they die or if anything odd happens with them.
    BelieveInBuddha and OF like this.
  16. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    Im pretty sure you will need higher ohm carts. Unless you are using a devise with a high amp limit. But kanger makes a 2.7 ohm cart too.

    About the lr attys you can get bridgeless, plateless attys so you dont have to modify it before using it.
    Attys work ok but dont suit my style.I like to not have to load it that often.
  17. whyblameus

    whyblameus Member

    Messages:
    49
    Im only having leaking issues when my carts are getting low but my wax is pretty dry/crumbly. It hardens up pretty well unless its heated to much. Which is what happens when its low and im trying to smoke it all and waist less before cleaning it.
    But you said your using a jelly like co2 oil so maybe is more the viscosity of the oil.
    I have never had the pleasure of using any co2 extracted oil. Is it usually "jelly like"?
    I extract my own oil and its usually pretty dry and crumbly.

    But I wont lie these carts take some getting used to and have some flaws. The more I use them the more I can control the flaws though.

    The people selling essential oiler carts said they have a smaller airhole than kanger to help leaks. Ill be ordering one of theres to compare.

    How was the flavor compared to other carts you have used?
    What devise were you using to power the carts?
    You get bigger hits from a 2.4 ohm omicron cart on that same device?

    Maybe I got a defective omicron cart cause I couldnt get much of a hit at 3.7 volts and still didnt get as good a hit at 4.8 volts as I do even at 3.3 volts with the kanger carts.

    im pretty sure the airtube isnt plastic. I took apart a cart that had burnt out just to see if there was any sign of the airtube burning. There wasnt. I also tried to burn it with my lighter and it didnt even want to burn. Its pretty heat resistant. And it seemed to be more of a tightly woven fabric(like a hose) with a heat resistant reasin or something.
  18. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    I agree with DubC, both show some promise. Leaks, of course, are an issue to work on. It also seems to me they both were more 'fiddly' than Omicron or Revolution/DART. The lighter came out a lot in a few hits. Technique will no doubt impact this. Just going to have to experiment with different techniques.....work, work, work.

    I was flat out amazed at the Gentleman's cart gulping down what was a 1/3 gram easy in my estimate. One HUGE hit, very much like a serious nail hit in density on exhale. The next attempt at a hit was lame! The sucker was basically out? We realized we should have weighed the cart to know more (the only scale we had only read .1 gram steps), something I'm going to look into in the next round of testing. I'm thinking at lest some of it must be soaked in somewhere. A lot came out for sure as vapor, but a whole lot went in and none leaked out the bottom (at that point).

    As to the Kanger, which I tried, my take is it works but it a lot harder to control the way I'm using it. Doing the exact same thing got two different results several minutes apart. It seems like it's going to be much more sensitive to concentrate than Omicron or Revolution/DART are. PG, I'm sure, will drain right out again. As DubC suggests, shatters are going to freeze up solid and need a blowtorch to get going I bet.

    While they show promise, and I'll be checking that out in due time, I think easier to get (and more uniform) results will come from Omicron or Revolution/DART for most users. And I expect for a longer service life? If the goal is to load plenty for a night on the town and nip at that in a trouble free way these guys don't seem to have an advantage. If you can sit and play with it to get a few good hits and move on, I think it's worth looking into at least.

    OF
  19. mmenzie

    mmenzie My friends call me "Menz"

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    New Windsor, NY
    I am new and do not have access to quality dispensary sold oil. the only thing i can do is make QWISO oil from ABV. i made a batch and the resultant oil was brown in color (not black) was not hard but kinda thick. i can NOT roll the oil into a ball. if i get it on my fingers it sticks and stains my skin. now i took that oil from my pyrex pan and scarpaed it into a omicron fill tube on top of an omicron 2.4 cart. i gently heated up the fill tool and the cart in a sweeping up and down motion and watched the oil turn more "liquidy" and ooze its way into the omi cart. i then continued to heat the cart in a sweeping up and down motion a little longer to make sure it reached the bottom of the cart. i do not have a light or any way to see in the cart but watching the speed of it running out of the fill tool i assumed i gave it long enough to get to the bottom of the cart. i then placed the cart on my EGO (yes i know it's not an omicron) and put it into "regulated" mode (3.7v) and did some pulls to "prime" it. i got nothing from it.... no taste, no vapor, no nothing. i tried doing this for like 15 minutes and still nothing except the cart getting very warm to almost hot to the touch. i let it cool down and afet 15 min or so i came back and pu my EGo into "unregulated mode" (4.1v) and tried again and after 15 more min still no taste, no vapor, no nothing except the cart getting hot again. i finally gave up and removed the omi cart and turned it upside down and heated the cart with a lighter to reclain whatever i put in it.... and nothing came out. so my ABV oil just seemed to "disappear". i never got vapor or taste and it never came back out of the cart either.

    so i don't know if a different cart like the ones you are testing are a better choice but i can say my first experience with omi carts were not favorable either. i am open to suggestions if anyone has any??
  20. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    First off, let's face facts. ISO can be pretty bad, even with good herb going in. Using ABV makes it all the worse. There's very little THC left in the AVB (if the vaping went right) and all the junk there ever was. Therefore the ratio of garbage to THC is going to be much higher than if you started with good shake, let alone bud or trim.

    While Omicron is less sensitive to quality WRT to feeding than some of the other systems, it's still not going to do well if you feed it lots of junk with a little THC mixed in. OTOH, Revolution/DART can deal with lower grades much better, IMO. Junk accumulates and fouls it out as well, but it's easy to clean it out with ISO soaks and boiling for a fresh start.

    But the bottom line is still going to be while we're using concentrates over 50% THC (I'd say something like 60% on average?), you're lucky to be a small fraction of that. Back of the envelope calculations say if you removed 80% of the THC by vaping it (I think a fair number if you don't roast it really dark) your oil is 10% THC, weaker than mid grade herb...... Bad break, it's weak and you don't get much of it.

    I hate to propose this, but IMO if you want to give it a fair go you're going to have to bite the bullet and feed something more potent than AVB into it. Unless you have access to lots of lower grade trim and shake that means feeding flowers. You'll need something like a 1/4 ounce (7 grams) to get a gram of full potency oil using good bud, more with lower grades. If you want say 700 mg (.7 grams) of THC in the final product you need to start with more (say 1000 mg) of THC in the 'feed stock'. Using 15% bud that's five grams. And that's with 'perfect extraction' which you're not going to get with ISO quick wash....you'll need a bit more herb in the game. This stuff really only makes commercial sense if you have pounds of lower grade but still potent product to start wtih I think.

    Sorry for the damper on the party, but that's my 'read' on the problem.

    OF
    DubCRider likes this.
  21. mmenzie

    mmenzie My friends call me "Menz"

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    New Windsor, NY
    i have no knowledge to agree or disagree with you. all i can speak on is what i have done or tried. i outlined pretty well in detail what i have done and the part that confuses me the most is.... where is the oil i did feed it?? i never got any hits, i never got any flavor, and i never got any vapor. so why did it disappear?? if it wasn't used, it should drip back out if i turn the cart upside down and heat it again like i did when i filled it correct??

    also.... i have dabbed the same ABV QWISO made by someone else and it worked. i got pretty decently medicated from it. i compared notes with this person and we did it the same way and our end product is the same look and consistency. the only difference is our situation... he has a nail and dome but no pen or carts while i have the pen and carts but no nail or dome. i hope to remedy that in the near future and i still have some trace amounts of the ABV QWISO i made in the pan still so i will dab it when i can to see if i get medicated from mine too.

    if i can dab it i should be able to use it in a cart right or is using in a cart, that much different than dabbing (i know physically they are way different but the heating and releasing of vapor is similar)????
  22. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Hard to say, but I suspect it's still in there, some absorbed into the wicks and other places (typically about .2 grams with Omicron carts). There just wasn't much THC to start with I think. Some of that no doubt came out as vapor but it was probably too thin to make much effect?

    Did you weigh the cart before and after? I think you'll find when it's 'empty' it still weighs more than when new. By a fair bit.

    Yes, I think the cart is much different than a nail, at least in some cases. The nail has huge amounts of heat available to power past junk and low levels to get all the available THC converted to vapor. The cart is going to foul out as it tries to work it's way through the load bit by bit. Once fouled, you could put PG in it and not get vapor out. The physics is the same, but the system controls it I think. And again, I think the key is Omicron is sensitive to the quality of the concentrate fed it (nails not so much so).

    OF
  23. mmenzie

    mmenzie My friends call me "Menz"

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    New Windsor, NY
    i actually bought two omi carts so i could weigh the unused one against the new one i guess. so.... if i read this right... .2 grams is wasted just on the wicks alone?? that seems kinda like a lot of waste to me especially if you are only loading .5 in the first place. i don't think i had .5 to start with so if what you are saying is true... then most of what i loaded was wasted on the wicks. if i was spending good money on good oil (which i can't now but maybe in the future) i would hate to see .2 of my hard earned money just end up as "waste"
  24. DubCRider

    DubCRider Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    SF and beyond
    If you're using QWISO you need to load a full gram. Next time you prime one be sure you melt it down with a lighter so you can't see any oil in the two D shaped slots the oil fills in to. Your issue was loading too small an amount of oil.
  25. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,603
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Good show you got more than one, but the weight of one isn't really useful in sorting out another. It's quite common to have several tenths of a gram difference between carts from the same box. I just checked 3 left in a box, got 7.840, 7.853 and 7.955, really pretty close in my experience. Looking at a couple others I see weights above 8.3 grams. Lots of hand work in there, even if the rest of the parts were identical.

    And I don't agree with your assessment that residual is "wasted" (although I can see how you might look at it that way). It's like the first gallon of gas that ever went into your car. You could say it's still there when the car goes to the scrap yard but you know it's really the last gallon that went in. In the cart the residual .2 or so is just the next oil to feed when you top up. The loss part comes when you scrap out the cart.

    That is isn't only a loss because you scrap that cart at that time.

    It's not that simple either, I think. Not really. Some of the 'loss' weight is not actually real loss. It's the residual 'scab' of contamination left on the heater after the good stuff has vaped off. Think about it, if you ran say 3 grams through the cart and it was 70% THC there's .9 grams of 'something else' in there too. Some of that will vape away, some does not and stays behind as deposits. Normally this is what finally kills the cart. As it happens I just had to drain the oil out of a basically new cart that died. It stopped producing with most of the initial half gram still there. It read a bit over 5 Ohms, one of the heaters failed very quickly (called 'infant mortality' by quality guys). A few dozen hits at most. I got over .3 out, I figure there's just under .120 grams there, mostly in the wicks and side walls as I think there's very little contamination on the heater yet. Based on that I'd guess the average .2 grams 'lost' with the cart is about half usable oil, half contamination?

    OF
    Puffers likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors