Gear D-nail thread

[JCat]

Yup, I have the High5 v2 which is the wider unit that goes in the pelican case but its the same e5cc PID. The only gripe I have with it is High5 gear is wired to their own non standard wiring and they use a version of the PID that uses a mechanical relay as opposed to a solid state relay (ssr) They make good gear but those factors would be weighed.

Since your in Canada Id recommend Ewaxcanada.ca Mark is an absolute ninja when it comes to wiring up nails and he used the e5cc that has a solid state relay, awesome silicone coated coil wires and supreme paint options, Ive sent him a few fellow FC'ers with great feedback, definitely worth checking out before pulling the trigger on a box.

edit: and the Ewax boxes use the standard dnail wiring setup for their coils, which IMO is definitely a plus as it gives you much more freedom on custom coils like the ones from AH or DC

That's not true about the SSR ... I've opened up the units (both the High5 LCD #1 and the High5 LED #1, and they both use the same SSR that is a zero-crossing one as it should be for AC). The Omron PID they use is an E5CC-QX2ASM-880, so no extra bells and whistles like an RS-485 interface on it, but it just sends a small DC voltage signal to trigger the external relay (which is a zero-crossing SSR).

As far as Mark goes, that was my initial impression as well, but after one conversation with him that went quite well, I contacted him a couple times and he never got back to me; not so much as an acknowledgement; other members on here have experienced the same treatment lately ... strange ...

Anyways ... just wanted to clarify on the High5 units (agree about the wiring though!)

 

[ensabbahnur]

That's not true about the SSR ... I've opened up the units (both the High5 LCD #1 and the High5 LED #1, and they both use the same SSR that is a zero-crossing one as it should be for AC). The Omron PID they use is an E5CC-QX2ASM-880, so no extra bells and whistles like an RS-485 interface on it, but it just sends a small DC voltage signal to trigger the external relay (which is a zero-crossing SSR).

As far as Mark goes, that was my initial impression as well, but after one conversation with him that went quite well, I contacted him a couple times and he never got back to me; not so much as an acknowledgement; other members on here have experienced the same treatment lately ... strange ...

Anyways ... just wanted to clarify on the High5 units (agree about the wiring though!)

The High5 LCD with the e5cc definitely has a mechanical relay, 100% certain, it clicks like a 1950s thermostat all day long, and I can physically feel the relay opening and closing in my unit. I have 1 and my buddies have an additional 2 units (1 v1 and 2 v2 LCD #2s) that also have the mechanical ssr. All 3 units were purchased before the "update" to the "newer" v3 ninja nail ripoff (between 6-9 months) with the flat sides instead of the angled case fitting sides.

Its odd that 2 known to be rather on the ball with CS companies with Errl and Ewax would both deliver a "ball sucking" cs experience, Im curious as to exactly what happened and how we came to this as my experiences with both companies (the us ver of Errl at least) has been as good as I could possibly hope interacting with a "stoner tech" company could possibly be. Ive also heard nothing but glowing feedback from everyone Ive sent to Ewax. As much as Im a stickler for more "classic" business practices and flawless interactions regarding money, especially with the smaller more "indie" companies, I have zero realistic expectation of immediacy as I would in some other consumer interactions, its just the nature of the beast.....now Im not at all saying there are no "stoner tech" companies that are 100% on point, Ive just learned you're setting yourself up for frustration if you go in with that expectation.

Ill also cast a vote for "expedited or rush" is typically (have had good experiences with Amazon and thats about it) not worth it.......and especially international stuff.

edit:
@biohacker where did you read about dnail having bad CS? I believe my interaction is the most recent review and while it had a hiccup it was rather glowing by the time it was resolved.

 

[JCat]

The High5 LCD with the e5cc definitely has a mechanical relay, 100% certain, it clicks like a 1950s thermostat all day long, and I can physically feel the relay opening and closing in my unit. I have 1 and my buddies have an additional 2 units (1 v1 and 2 v2 LCD #2s) that also have the mechanical ssr. All 3 units were purchased before the "update" to the "newer" v3 ninja nail ripoff (between 6-9 months) with the flat sides instead of the angled case fitting sides.

Its odd that 2 known to be rather on the ball with CS companies with Errl and Ewax would both deliver a "ball sucking" cs experience, Im curious as to exactly what happened and how we came to this as my experiences with both companies (the us ver of Errl at least) has been as good as I could possibly hope interacting with a "stoner tech" company could possibly be. Ive also heard nothing but glowing feedback from everyone Ive sent to Ewax. As much as Im a stickler for more "classic" business practices and flawless interactions regarding money, especially with the smaller more "indie" companies, I have zero realistic expectation of immediacy as I would in some other consumer interactions, its just the nature of the beast.....now Im not at all saying there are no "stoner tech" companies that are 100% on point, Ive just learned you're setting yourself up for frustration if you go in with that expectation.

Ill also cast a vote for "expedited or rush" is typically (have had good experiences with Amazon and thats about it) not worth it.......and especially international stuff.

edit:
@biohacker where did you read about dnail having bad CS? I believe my interaction is the most recent review and while it had a hiccup it was rather glowing by the time it was resolved.

This is the exact relay that is in both the High5 LED #1 and High5 LCD #1 that I have (and I would presume the High5 LCD #1 @biohacker has since he bought it also from @PlanetVape shortly after me)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...594.html?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.26793e5fcVC8q6

 

[ensabbahnur]

This is the exact relay that is in both the High5 LED #1 and High5 LCD #1 that I have (and I would presume the High5 LCD #1 @biohacker has since he bought it also from @PlanetVape shortly after me)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...594.html?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.26793e5fcVC8q6

Not at all doubting you, just clarifying my multiple examples of the units Ive listed with e5ccs from H5 are indeed mechanical relays for sure.

At any rate, buyer beware?

 

[biohacker]

Im curious as to exactly what happened and how we came to this as my experiences with both companies (the us ver of Errl at least) has been as good as I could possibly hope interacting with a "stoner tech" company could possibly be. Ive also heard nothing but glowing feedback from everyone Ive sent to Ewax.

Cannot speak for Errlectric USA. Errlectric Canada (David) was another story... same deal, takes money, zero communication, weeks go by, request refund, have to fight for it - no phone answering, no emails answered etc. Just a bunch of nonsense and horrible CS plain and simple. Just my own personal anecdote though.

Ewax isn't much different. Mark is a great guy, and i've appreciated what he's done for me with pressing/squishing and teaching. However he rarely even replies to emails (complaints on his on FB page!) and wants nothing to do with this forum or members and has told me to NOT send him any customers from here! @lazylathe had a recent experience that proves this as well. He has an inaccurate perception of this forum and members "drama" but that's because he joined here and got off to a bad start. I have about 3 unanswered emails from him, not that I care anymore.

@biohacker where did you read about dnail having bad CS? I believe my interaction is the most recent review and while it had a hiccup it was rather glowing by the time it was resolved.

I've been doing nothing but researching d-nail for the past 2 days and it has come up several times, on reddit, youtube, etc. Just from my own personal experience, I have not received a single email after paying for my order 4 days ago. I entered my email address correctly.

As for the High5 LCD#1, my relay clicks loudly! Wish it didn't, but not a big deal. I'm a bit concerned @ensabbahnur that i'll have to jack the temps up to 640 like you? All your other controllers you are in the low 500's?

 

[ensabbahnur]

Cannot speak for Errlectric USA. Errlectric Canada (David) was another story... same deal, takes money, zero communication, weeks go by, request refund, have to fight for it - no phone answering, no emails answered etc. Just a bunch of nonsense and horrible CS plain and simple. Just my own personal anecdote though.

Ewax isn't much different. Mark is a great guy, and i've appreciated what he's done for me with pressing/squishing and teaching. However he rarely even replies to emails (complaints on his on FB page!) and wants nothing to do with this forum or members and has told me to NOT send him any customers from here! @lazylathe had a recent experience that proves this as well. He has an inaccurate perception of this forum and members "drama" but that's because he joined here and got off to a bad start. I have about 3 unanswered emails from him, not that I care anymore.



I've been doing nothing but researching d-nail for the past 2 days and it has come up several times, on reddit, youtube, etc. Just from my own personal experience, I have not received a single email after paying for my order 4 days ago. I entered my email address correctly.

As for the High5 LCD#1, my relay clicks loudly! Wish it didn't, but not a big deal. I'm a bit concerned @ensabbahnur that i'll have to jack the temps up to 640 like you? All your other controllers you are in the low 500's?

Hmmm, thats the 5th time Ive seen a vendor have issues/criticism of the board, maybe we are putting of some bad vibes or simply expecting too much from "stoner tech"

Ill hit up Mark and see if anything is worth salvaging as Ive had nothing but good interactions and Id love to have a good place to point any Canadian FC'rs that are looking for good gear.

I don't recall saying I ran that high on the e5cc, when i first got it maybe. I run my high5 pelinail with its bootsy ass Mypin controller around that high, but everything else usually runs 480-530 depending on the nail and material. Ive experienced no drawback to the mechanical relay aside from the constant clicking and the FUD that its MTBF is nowhere near an SSR, temps have always been EXTREMELY stable and responsive.

edit: and just for levity, Id suspect if you named any semi larger (even in its field) company that has been around for a few years, I can find tons of gripes about them on the internet, yet another nature of the beast, Id also venture I can find just about as many positives also, but that shows how important on going, continual feedback is......just because someone has been on point or a train wreck in the past, doesn't mean thats how they are now.....for better or worse.

 

[biohacker]

maybe we are putting of some bad vibes or simply expecting too much from "stoner tech"

I don't think so..we're just consumers.... you can see Mark's posts in the rosin thread for yourself. It's pretty obvious to me that he was in the wrong. Then he bailed like a baby. And now holds a grudge!? lol NO FC CUSTOMERS. He made that LOUD AND CLEAR.

Ill hit up Mark and see if anything is worth salvaging as Ive had nothing but good interactions and Id love to have a good place to point any Canadian FC'rs that are looking for good gear.

Good luck! lol After ignoring an email, he sent me one about stop sending FC customers, so I actually pointed the finger at you. Please don't hate me He has tried to close his account here as well, unsuccessfully. He was thinking people were contacting him because of his presence here. Shame, as it does look like he has good gear, although i'm not sure how motivated he is to even sell them. @lazylathe waiting over a week for a coil without an email, etc. no phone calls answered, and then wham refund and that was that.

I don't recall saying I ran that high on the e5cc, when i first got it maybe. I run my high5 pelinail with its bootsy ass Mypin controller around that high, but everything else usually runs 480-530 depending on the nail and material.

Yes it was the high5 pelinail! But I just assumed it was the same omron controller, etc? Why the difference in temps vs the LCD#1?

edit: and just for levity, Id suspect if you named any semi larger (even in its field) company that has been around for a few years, I can find tons of gripes about them on the internet, yet another nature of the beast, Id also venture I can find just about as many positives also, but that shows how important on going, continual feedback is......just because someone has been on point or a train wreck in the past, doesn't mean thats how they are now.....for better or worse.

True, but i'm just speaking of my own personal experiences, so they may perhaps help someone else down the road. As it stands now I would never purchase from Ewax or Errlectric Canada again, period (oh yeah add Ed from Supreme Vaporizer to that list too lol). D-nail is still in my good books lol But from my sneak peak CCA710 has serious issues too?

 

[ensabbahnur]

I don't think so..we're just consumers.... you can see Mark's posts in the rosin thread for yourself. It's pretty obvious to me that he was in the wrong. Then he bailed like a baby. And now holds a grudge!? lol NO FC CUSTOMERS. He made that LOUD AND CLEAR.



Good luck! lol After ignoring an email, he sent me one about stop sending FC customers, so I actually pointed the finger at you. Please don't hate me He has tried to close his account here as well, unsuccessfully. He was thinking people were contacting him because of his presence here. Shame, as it does look like he has good gear, although i'm not sure how motivated he is to even sell them. @lazylathe waiting over a week for a coil without an email, etc. no phone calls answered, and then wham refund and that was that.



Yes it was the high5 pelinail! But I just assumed it was the same omron controller, etc? Why the difference in temps vs the LCD#1?



True, but i'm just speaking of my own personal experiences, so they may perhaps help someone else down the road. As it stands now I would never purchase from Ewax or Errlectric Canada again, period (oh yeah add Ed from Supreme Vaporizer to that list too lol). D-nail is still in my good books lol But from my sneak peak CCA710 has serious issues too?

Well I don't claim to know exactly how the various PID values actually effect the performance (I understand PIDs and how they function but I don't know what makes one set of values better or worse in a given situation then another value), certain controllers seem to have a lot more "wiggle room" in their code then others, maybe its due to different ICs that run them. IME, the cheaper the PID, the looser the temps as a whole are, meaning overshoots on heat up, takes longer to stabilize when you put the carb cap on, difficulty holding a locked set temp etc etc. Nails based on RaspPis like the Hex and the Kube have been claimed to be "hyper accurate" and there for appear to be unstable.......I dunno one way or the other to be honest as I feel no one has a scientifically accurate and reproducible setup to gauge actual dish temps (the only temp that really matters), but I've said many times I feel the e5cc (mechanical or solid state) reacts faster and more predictably then any other controller Ive ever used with the possible exception of the Errl C. Station

 

[biohacker]

but I've said many times I feel the e5cc (mechanical or solid state) reacts faster and more predictably then any other controller Ive ever used with the possible exception of the Errl C. Station

Have you tried the RDK300? And should I have the same experience with my high5 flat coil as a d-nail flat, or no?

 

[ensabbahnur]

Have you tried the RDK300? And should I have the same experience with my high5 flat coil as a d-nail flat, or no?

I played with a 200 a bit at a LHS but haven't had the opportunity to really put an Auber through its paces, however I will say I don't think I've ever seen 1 bad comment about them or their gear.

All other things being equal, assuming same PID and values, the coil shouldn't much effect the end experience. Ive had several dnail brand and high5 brand coils, Ive had some variation in amount of coils (so overall length of the heating unit but not dimensions) in both. Ill also note that every Augusthaus custom coil I've seen, be it in person or on the net has looked EXACTLY the same. Ill also say the flat coil I received with my OG Hexnail, where the coil was a flat ribbon, laid on its side then rolled, in my mind would offer the best results as the thermal expansion will tend to unroll the ribbon horizontally as opposed to expanding vertically and stressing the dish. There has been talk about K type, J type etc etc, Im not sure how the way the thermistor interfaces with the unit would make say 600 degrees on 1 type of coil be different then 600 degrees on another type of coil though.

 

[JCat]

If it’s not an SSR (not doubting you about the clicking), then wouldn’t it be bad for the coil? It is my understanding that for AC heating coils it is very important that the relay be zero-crossing or it will have a negative impact on the coil ... is it possible for SSR’s to “click”?

 

[biohacker]

Appreciate the knowledge @ensabbahnur you are a real asset to this thread bro!

@JCat does your LCD#1 click too?

 

[lazylathe]

@biohacker

Errlectric Canada i had no issues with but i went about it differently. I contacted him on IG and he actually came to my place for a session and demo and left stuff for me to try for free! Met up and gave back what i did not want and paid cash for the rest, easy transaction. Apparently online is different...
Dave also told me he is more their face to face rep, not much to do with the website of Errlectric, he is more the guy to bring his stuff to your place to try and then buy what you want.

D_Nail is another interesting company... I bought the Lotus from them and if i want ANY help i have to call in and talk to someone. they say that they do not understand what i am asking about in my emails... That statement tells me a lot since i was very clear and concise in my communications with them.

EWAX Canada is another extremely ODD guy... he runs his website and sells stuff and does not communicate for a week on an item that he has NO stock of but the store says he has stock... I had to HUNT him down on every platform i could find him on and send him messages before he just gave me a refund - No explanation or anyhting from him!

Sorry you ordered on a major long weekend and got ripped with shipping!

 

[ensabbahnur]

If it’s not an SSR (not doubting you about the clicking), then wouldn’t it be bad for the coil? It is my understanding that for AC heating coils it is very important that the relay be zero-crossing or it will have a negative impact on the coil ... is it possible for SSR’s to “click”?

I don't think anything solid state should have any noise at all beyond anything generated through piezoelectric effects, certainly not the heavy clicks Im hearing out of these units. Everything I've heard/read about the difference between mech and solid state is the response time for mechanical relays should be quite a bit less (from an electronics perspective....even if we may not notice a difference) EDIT and the SSR since it has no moving parts, in theory should have a much much higher MTBF. Ive been running my mech relayed e5cc since Oct of 2016 I think, and havent had any coil issues.....with any of my coils for that matter.

 

[JCat]

Appreciate the knowledge @ensabbahnur you are a real asset to this thread bro!

@JCat does your LCD#1 click too?

No, but I think maybe it did for some reason before I disabled the alarms? If push and hold the "menu" button to access the settings menu, then cycle through the menus until you get to ALM1 and ALM2 and set them both to "0" it will disable them.

Just verified and 100% my unit does not click.

 

[biohacker]

Just verified and 100% my unit does not click.

Because you disabled the alarms? What are the alarms for?

 

[ensabbahnur]

Appreciate the knowledge @ensabbahnur you are a real asset to this thread bro!

@JCat does your LCD#1 click too?

You're most welcome.

When I first found this board it was from searching for info on the Liger, I ended up buying a SIC Halo setup and STRUGGLED for a long time with really poor performance, so poor I gave my entire setup away to a buddy for free I was so pissed that I wasn't getting the experience I had heard so much about. Then I sat and read everyones advice and anecdotes again, figured I had to be doing something wrong if so many others were having great experiences, repurchased a full SIC Halo setup, did some tweaking and now Id be willing to put my setup against anyone elses with confidence it'll produce more clouds time and again. I felt so silly I gave up on my first setup so fast and all it took was more knowledge and more patience and now I feel I owe everyone else that may be struggling my due diligence to try to get them on board with success.

 

[biohacker]

I felt so silly I gave up on my first setup so fast and all it took was more knowledge and more patience and now I feel I owe everyone else that may be struggling my due diligence to try to get them on board with success.

Apologies as I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and only noticed another member struggling as well with higher temps vs their liger. I just did a search on your name in this thread and it came up with 3 pages worth of posts which i'm just about to dig into! I really can't afford to have this d-nail SiC halo not be perfect! I want an AWESOME experience out of the gate otherwise i'm fucked lol

 

[JCat]

Because you disabled the alarms? What are the alarms for?

I don’t think so ... the alarm outputs just send a small voltage and current from their outputs when active, same as what activates the SSR, so disabling them should have only prevented the annoying alarm lights on the panel from constantly illuminating...

Very strange that your unit would have a mechanical relay and mine would be an SSR though ... (I opened mine and it’s 100% the one I posted above)

The reason zero-crossing is important is just a general rule in that AC heating coils (and other things as well) don’t like being constantly activated or deactivated part way through the AC sine wave ... they should always turn on/off when the wave crosses zero ... that’s what a zero crossing (or synchronous) SSR ensures

 

[biohacker]

EWAX Canada is another extremely ODD guy... he runs his website and sells stuff and does not communicate for a week on an item that he has NO stock of but the store says he has stock... I had to HUNT him down on every platform i could find him on and send him messages before he just gave me a refund - No explanation or anyhting from him!

I have one of the best customer service setup around. You speak to me, no run arounds, no avoiding. Business landline and available after hours.

 

[lazylathe]

Amazing what a year does to some businesses... Almost to the date... Lol!!!

 

[biohacker]

UPDATE! Dug a little deeper and found tracking info for my order. Looks like it was shipped on wednesday and is already moving pretty quickly, so should have it in my hands later next week! So weird to not get emailed notification for when you place your order (it actually says to expect an email lol), no email that it's been shipped, etc. But now I know how they roll, just log in!

@JCat does your LCD#1 click too?

No, but I think maybe it did for some reason before I disabled the alarms?

Just verified and 100% my unit does not click.

Because you disabled the alarms?

I don’t think so

CONFUSED!

Very strange that your unit would have a mechanical relay and mine would be an SSR though ... (I opened mine and it’s 100% the one I posted above)

Yeah i'd say! You SURE yours doesn't click? How's your hearing?

 

[ensabbahnur]

Very strange that your unit would have a mechanical relay and mine would be an SSR though ... (I opened mine and it’s 100% the one I posted above)

I don't think its strange at all really, in mainstream consumer gear that needs UL or CE type certification it'd be surprising but "stoner tech" where really 95% of users don't even know what a relay is, let alone care what one is......I can see a company trying to save a few bucks (or pennies) or a manufacturing step by using a single unit (even if it is "lesser performing") then multiple possible failure points.......who knows.

Ive been beating my head against a wall trying to get this new hex nail up and running or Id prolly have opened mine up by now just to be sure they used the RX version and not actually used a separate mechanical relay.....which would be double dumb

 

[JCat]

I don't think its strange at all really, in mainstream consumer gear that needs UL or CE type certification it'd be surprising but "stoner tech" where really 95% of users don't even know what a relay is, let alone care what one is......I can see a company trying to save a few bucks (or pennies) or a manufacturing step by using a single unit (even if it is "lesser performing") then multiple possible failure points.......who knows.

Ive been beating my head against a wall trying to get this new hex nail up and running or Id prolly have opened mine up by now just to be sure they used the RX version and not actually used a separate mechanical relay.....which would be double dumb

We literally bought are units a couple weeks apart from the same retailer though ... that’s why I say strange.

These guys don’t have CSA or equivalent certifications on their stuff? Aren’t they worried about liability if it burns down someone’s house or something?

(I’d rather spend the few thousand a year to be certified ... guess it’s complicated in the US where the legality of the gear I suppose is gray with the federal laws being what they are)

Edit:

You SURE yours doesn't click? How's your hearing?

100% positive. (I stuck my ear pretty much against it to check)

Edit edit:

The alarms are for triggering other processes when theshholds are exceeded. (You have to remember this is an industrial PID control used in many processes)

 

[biohacker]

So my High5 LCD with the mechanical relay isn't as "good" as the SSR? They just toss the SSR in "randomly"? Still waiting to hear back from JCat since he did indicate that he "thought" his was clicking until he disabled the alarms, but now i'm not so sure.

Don't wanna venture off topic, but since the high5 is coming up a lot, how would it compare to the Errlectric controller?