CCA Liger banger V3.0

[PoopMachine]

Just sent Josh an email about getting a Storm Cell cap to replace my Hurricane. I like the Hurricane but its a little big and bulky for the 20mm. Wish the extra had been removed and there was a specific cap for each size. Thats a lot of extra metal going from 20 to 30mm

 

[ItWasaGoodDre]

Just placed an order for the SiC 20mm set in Gold, and decided to order a Terp Trunk from thedablab as they have a Valentine's Day sale going on. I figure I can always order a Storm Cell in the future when machining is sorted and/or the design is updated a bit.

Thanks for the help with the coupon code!

Edit: Why is my Liger not in my mailbox yet?! I placed my order like, 2 whole minutes ago! /s

You are going to be so stoked on that combo!!! Seriously, the Terp Trunk took my Liger to another level. They are all made out by hand out of goood quality boro in Colorado. I dropped mine on my tile floor and it's fine. That durability is worth it's weight in gold to me. I know a lot of people rep the Hover (and deservedly so), but the Terp Trunk legitimately works just as well for a fraction of the price. And it's boro instead of quartz, so it can survive a drop off of your rig.

 

[DatFire]

After I finally, finally, finally got all my orders, I'd hoped to come back and post a stellar review. I actually felt bad for being harsh. But after having the products in hand, I don't feel the least bit bad.

The 20mm SiC worked great with the hurricane. I stretched/tightened the coil. Temps were really low compared to my SiC Halo. Then I took it apart. Now the intake needs to be screwed in too far for the cap to seal. And the storm cell doesn't seal on this bucket because of defects.

The 30mm with SiC is a POS IMO. The storm cell seals, but the temps required for full vaporization are higher than a halo, and the hits are super airy. I played with different coil stretches and tightened the crap out of the nut, but to no more satisfaction.

The skeleton handle is a real issue as it's not even close to long enough. And the "dab and cap" idea is just laughable. The stinger dabber is the correct size and works the best.

The colors I complained about might have been addressed as everything I recieved post complaint has been spot on and very bright.

I wanted to love this nail, but I don't. I can't recommend it in good conscience. Too many of the parts are defective or not fitted properly, and with the price the whole experience feels like a belly flop from the high dive. Add to that the one to three week wait time for an email response to a problem and IME it's a nightmare I paid $600 to enter.

IMO this a BETA product at best. It's not made to aerospace tolerances that's for sure. The company seems to be run start up style with OUR money by someone who thinks you can operate a successful business without answering emails. I don't care how nice the owner is, or about his good intentions, or about free stuff to make up for it. Like any business transaction, the product needs to be on time and made correctly. If you don't have those pieces in place why roll it out?

 

[invertedisdead]

This thread reminds me a lot of the grasshopper. Seems like a great idea, not quite ready.

 

[Silat]

Too many of the parts are defective

If your parts are defective, Josh will replace them.
I have never known of any vape or vaping product that did not have some issues.
There are many more satisfied customers of the Liger than those that are not happy.
I am sorry that you are unhappy.

 

[herbivore21]

This thread reminds me a lot of the grasshopper. Seems like a great idea, not quite ready.

The sad part is that the liger used various ideas already existing in the market (SiC/Sapphire/Quartz dishes with a titanium base, banger design) and the unique features (adjustable cap airflow, adjustable bucket angle, unique hurricane cap design, dab+cap dabbers) are what variously do not work so well.

A number of other features are executed in ways that feel inferior to existing competition:

1. The dabber handles are all inferior compared to the d-nail forked dabber tip, although I must admit the traditional dabber handles would only need to be a bit longer to fix this problem! The traditional tips on offer are good and I appreciate having these options, I just wish the handles were longer.

2. The Storm Cell caps are inconsistently machined (this is a ti manufacturer issue but QC needs to pick this stuff up!) and often do not fit/function properly.

3. The titanium parts are susceptible to issues relating to the manufacture of the item. Burrs, inconsistent tolerances etc. My SiC insert (admittedly a freebie!) is also considerably smaller than the diameter of the bucket and really rattles around in there.

4. The free moving inserts spin when you qtip and this partially undoes the benefits of the smooth sapphire surface for qtipping by making it harder to keep the damned thing put while you wipe away residue! Intake tube lengths seem to be a sticking point for some too, which prevent caps from sealing properly in some cases!

The burrs are a problem, as this can lead to loose, sharp small pieces of metal in the vapor path! I have only ever experienced this problem with two vendors in the past. One was the Sublimator, which had terrible machining, sharp edges everywhere but not so much burrs in the airpath.

In the other incident the vendor reached out to me and anyone else in the effected batch prior to the item shipping out to let us know to inspect carefully for burrs and/or return for a replacement as they knew some burrs got past QC that time and that this may be unsafe to use. I truly hope the titanium issues are resolved and would caution all of you to very thoroughly check your entire Liger (every titanium component, including the cap/adjustable airflow nut!) for loose burrs from machining.

I will remind @DatFire who complained that the 30mm liger takes higher temps to get vaporization than the sapphire halo that this should be expected, given that it is a much larger thermal mass being heated on the 30mm Liger!!!! This is nothing to complain about necessarily.

Too many folks get caught up in the number on their enail controller and this IMO is best ignored so long as you are not required to use nail cleaning temps to get a dab Controller temps will vary. You will find that even with the same coil over time, you will need to use higher temps to get the same results. That is because of oxidization of the coil. Many other factors come into play as mentioned many times in this thread.

I am still loving my 30mm Liger, but genuinely I think folks were being a little rose-tinted when they raved about how much better the Ligers were than the d-nail halos. They aren't better IME. For me, the 30mm fills a niche the d-nail doesn't but not without some trade-offs

 

[KimDracula]

I'm digging the new 3.0 and the new Storm Cell. It's a bit easier to seat and spin with the deeper tracks. If they were a bit longer in order to dab with I'd have no complaints.

 

[DatFire]

Man every time someone critizes this product a whole crew of people show up to defend it.

It's getting a little shilly in here

 

[herbivore21]

I'm digging the new 3.0 and the new Storm Cell. It's a bit easier to seat and spin with the deeper tracks. If they were a bit longer in order to dab with I'd have no complaints.

I should be very clear in saying that the Liger is a great high end nail, but there are issues with consistency of manufacturing/growing pains so YMMV

My above post was really addressing the early comparisons with the halos that originally drew me to try this product. In my view, those comparisons saying that the Liger is better than the halos were not justified. The halos offer easier assembly and cleaning and quicker vaporization with the same flavor as the best that the Liger has to offer with the same surface material IME. The Ligers offer different shaped nails, more difficult assembly/cleaning and a variety of caps/dabbers that function with varying success. Also a lot of inconsistencies in products which can influence function.

When you get a Liger, choose the right cap for your size and it arrives without QC issues; plenty of us (including myself!) love using the liger and it is very much an enjoyable product to use, better than many other options

@DatFire I've actually been accused of being a shill for the competition before I bought a Liger myself to see what all the fuss is about and those folks realized that I was genuine. Calling folks 'shill' is against the rules here btw man and as in my example, is often baseless and untrue. It is definitely not nice, and the rules here require that we 'be nice'. Folks have gotten warning points for it in the past so I'd avoid it here. I'm no mod, just looking out

 

[Baron23]

Man every time someone critizes this product a whole crew of people show up to defend it.

It's getting a little shilly in here

@DatFire - @KimDracula is a long time member in good standing and is in no way a shill. I know quite a few of the others in this thread....not a shill among them.

I suggest you be a bit careful throwing that term around, my friend.

@herbivore21 - I wonder if perhaps success is the issue here. What I mean is that my Liger 2.0 20 mm has no burrs or uneven surfaces, I extend one single thread of the intake tube into the bucket to secure the insert and have never found that to be an issue with the 2.0, and my inserts fit well into the bucket.

So, I'm wondering if Josh wasn't just overwhelmed by his success as the 3.0 seems to have some serious growing pains.

Cheers

 

[invertedisdead]

Why not ship the nail assembled to show its been thoroughly looked over and tested for quality control?

 

[herbivore21]

@DatFire - @KimDracula is a long time member in good standing and is in no way a shill. I know quite a few of the others in this thread....not a shill among them.

I suggest you be a bit careful throwing that term around, my friend.

@herbivore21 - I wonder if perhaps success is the issue here. What I mean is that my Liger 2.0 20 mm has no burrs or uneven surfaces, I extend one single thread of the intake tube into the bucket to secure the insert and have never found that to be an issue with the 2.0, and my inserts fit well into the bucket.

So, I'm wondering if Josh wasn't just overwhelmed by his success as the 3.0 seems to have some serious growing pains.

Cheers

I've said it for a very long time in this thread already brother, most of the problems here have been due to the sharp increase in demand, coupled with no increase in staffing.

No one person is going to have kept up running a company with that increase in demand (seriously with all of those parts, just doing thorough QC on a batch of titanium components could be a large part of a full-time job!)! This makes/breaks all kinds of businesses as you'd no doubt know yourself. We can only hope that Josh manages to bounce back and grows to meet demand

I also hope that we see some improvements to some of the things I mentioned above. Plenty of those would be very easily implemented though, and I know Josh already plans on doing some of these things

@invertedisdead man the problem is that some issues seem to have gotten past QC, or QC may not have been done at all in some cases. I am wondering either if QC has been overlooked/rushed/forgotten while Josh was catching up on backed orders? I can't imagine that Josh would let something out with burrs from machining if he knew

 

[invertedisdead]

@herbivore21 Yeah, I just can't see parts going out with the issues reported if anyone was really doing QC. ESPECIALLY the owner of the company. IMO companies focus so much on speed to market these days and release products too early. I understand the need to recouperate capital, but some of these moves can sink the ship. I get the same vibe in the Hex Nail thread. Desperate to rush out units... Software not finished... I'm just saying. Projects are either finished or they aren't.

I appreciate your feedback regarding the liger and d-nail. My goal is to sell my Volcano to help fund one.

 

[Danksta]

Did Josh ever consider going the kickstarter route? I think people would be more forgiving if they were considered an early adopter/beta tester. I can't imagine what the resellers think of this launch. High5 sells them on their site but they ship from @CCA710. What's the point of that arrangement? Just adds another layer/person to deal with upset customers.

I love my Liger, but there was def a learning curve with it and it also required a lot of patience. I've only had a working bucket/cap for a week and before that I was considering selling it but never did because I believed in the product. I'm VERY happy I stuck with Josh and now have a really nice functioning setup.

Once the Storm cell gets redesigned I think we may have a winner here.

 

[herbivore21]

Did Josh ever consider going the kickstarter route? I think people would be more forgiving if they were considered an early adopter/beta tester. I can't imagine what the resellers think of this launch. High5 sells them on their site but they ship from @CCA710. What's the point of that arrangement? Just adds another layer/person to deal with upset customers.

I love my Liger, but there was def a learning curve with it and it also required a lot of patience. I've only had a working bucket/cap for a week and before that I was considering selling it but never did because I believed in the product. I'm VERY happy I stuck with Josh and now have a really nice functioning setup.

Once the Storm cell gets redesigned I think we may have a winner here.

I wouldn't support a kickstarter, I avoid them all as a matter of principle. As well, pre-orders are a bad way to do business for similar reasons IMO. These arrangements only work out well if everything goes smoothly on the way to bringing the product to market (when has that happened in this industry?). Otherwise, it could turn out that you as a vendor can have problems with, for example; component manufacturers repeatedly fucking something up and not only do you need to deal with this, but also the customers whose money you could have had a very long time by the time things are resolved!

ATM Josh no doubt is considering how to grow the business to keep up with demand... We shouldn't expect him to develop/design products and launch kickstarters etc yet

 

[Silat]

Man every time someone critizes this product a whole crew of people show up to defend it.

It's getting a little shilly in here

That is not what happens.
What actually happens is many people show up to try and help those that are having issues.
It is a very positive thing.

 

[Monsoon]

Did Josh ever consider going the kickstarter route? I think people would be more forgiving if they were considered an early adopter/beta tester.

You'd be surprised, I've seen more than a few cases where the Kickstarter or first-run supporters were more nasty than the core supporters on a related forum.

My only real complaint with the Liger right now is I'd like to see a better system to connect the pieces together. I find it can be a pain to get them threaded on just right for the angle I want while not going too tight since that makes it harder to un-screw after. That said I can deal with it for now and I find it's worth the trouble.

 

[Seth_]

What do you guys think?

that you're a greedy mf.

 

[momofthegoons]

Man every time someone critizes this product a whole crew of people show up to defend it.

It's getting a little shilly in here

One person came on after your post with a good comment about the product (the rest of the posts were not exactly positive) and now all the members posting here are shills because one person doesn't agree with you? You need to be a bit more careful with the name calling. And perhaps revisit our rules; specifically the Be Nice section.

This is not an invitation to dispute what I've said or continue posting against the product. You've stated you don't care for it and can now move on.

 

[Baron23]

ompanies focus so much on speed to market these days and release products too early (sic)... I'm just saying. Projects are either finished or they aren't.

Brother, you are talking my language here. Just retired after...oh, maybe 35 years as a project and program manager for telecommunication network infrastructure (switches, gateways, app servers, SBC's and the like).

In the last 10 years or so, the the demand to declare milestones on an artificial and inadequate schedule became intense. Now, as a good major acct program manager, we always figured out a way to meet the optics and declare the milestone complete (no matter the condition of the network) and then it would take just as much time to clean it up and get it really ready as I projected originally. Actually, often took a bit longer as we and the customers made a bit of a warm mess out of this elbows over assholes deployment.

To me, just take the time to get it done, THEN release it. But I'm strange LOL

 

[invertedisdead]

Brother, you are talking my language here. Just retired after...oh, maybe 35 years as a project and program manager for telecommunication network infrastructure (switches, gateways, app servers, SBC's and the like).

In the last 10 years or so, the the demand to declare milestones on an artificial and inadequate schedule became intense. Now, as a good major acct program manager, we always figured out a way to meet the optics and declare the milestone complete (no matter the condition of the network) and then it would take just as much time to clean it up and get it really ready as I projected originally. Actually, often took a bit longer as we and the customers made a bit of a warm mess out of this elbows over assholes deployment.

To me, just take the time to get it done, THEN release it. But I'm strange LOL

In this age where brands are so heavily impacted by social media, it just seems too risky to attempt to pull off a successful start up if things aren't ironed out and polished enough to launch a product successfully. Bad press spreads like a wild fire, but is much harder to put out... perhaps you saw that mstract rosin bag thread too?

I agree completely on taking the proper time needed to complete the project before releasing it. It's really a waste of bad PR to have to deal with issues which could have easily been avoided, and with the internet those bothers don't exactly disappear overnight.

Plus it costs too much to ship and replace expensive small batch custom machined parts. Your sales then turn into losses, which doesn't help a small business grow whatsoever.

 

[CCA710]

Hey everyone! I owe you guys an apology.. I genuinely intended to make posting a regular habit to keep you up to date. I have been very overwhelmed and and slowly making headway and finally seeing the light at the end.

1st off I'd like to make 1 thing VERY clear: I 100% stand by my products/designs. If you got something you are not happy with PLEASE do not hesitate to send an email to: Contact@CCA710.com - I promise you will be satisfied in the end!

I am taking immediate steps to fix all QC issues, while simultaneously massively improving the quality of the products (tolerances/fit, surface polish level, etc.).

This is being done now via the following steps:
1) My new business partner is taking over the supply management
2) Vetting and moving production to more local companies (so we have a closer relationship & direct feedback)
3) Moving forward with advanced polishing techniques that will eliminate ALL titanium burrs/defects while making it mirror smooth (easier to clean and more inert)
4) Moving ALL Titanium production in house so I have 100% control from start to finish!

I am also taking steps to improve customer service and will be expanding my team to help eliminate all wait on emails! I sincerely apologize for the slow response time currently, it was/is completely unacceptable. I have been juggling emails and helping to get orders out in a timely manner; unfortunately it has not been working as orders are only increasing every week.

---

As for some of the common complaints:

A) ALL dabbers are being extended by approx 1cm (will be the same general length as the D-nail Fork Dabber) [this included the Skeleton Handle, normally included with the master sets]

B) The Hurricane cap is being redesigned to have only 1 radius. (think a half hollow globe; or a bowl shape). It will also be much smaller/minimalist vs the current design.

C) Air Flow Adjust: I have had a lot of mixed opinions on this; some absolutely love it, some hate it. I have considered a couple options and would love to get your guy's opinion!
- 1) Eliminate the 4 hole adjust, and make it only 2 holes. This would mean there is still an air flow adjust but it will only have 3 holes in it (allowing for 2 settings: 2 holes open or 1 hole open)
or 2) Eliminate the Air Flow Adjust entirely and go back to a single hole (simple, straight-forward, and would make the caps cheaper )

- Where I personally stand: I liked the idea of the air flow adjust, but have been disappointed with the function. I have been working on some new ideas for an adjust that will allow for a much more precise adjustment. Therefore I am personally leaning towards option 2) Eliminate the Air Flow Adjust; until I can implement the new air adjust design.

---

I want to extend my thanks to all of you here on FuckCombustion for your genuine feedback and critiques! I only have a desire to improve as much as possible. Your honest reviews, both good and bad, are worth their weight in gold to me!
Please continue to be patient with me as this is a massive learning experience and I will continue to strive to bring the very best service I possibly can! I know there will always be issues/problems/speed bumps in the road and I have faith that you all will help me recognize these areas so I can address them. I am simply a man who love to dab and I want everyone else to be able to enjoy it as much as I do everyday!

Your humble servant,

Josh

 

[Baron23]

Hey everyone! I owe you guys an apology.. I genuinely intended to make posting a regular habit to keep you up to date. I have been very overwhelmed and and slowly making headway and finally seeing the light at the end.

1st off I'd like to make 1 thing VERY clear: I 100% stand by my products/designs. If you got something you are not happy with PLEASE do not hesitate to send an email to: Contact@CCA710.com - I promise you will be satisfied in the end!

I am taking immediate steps to fix all QC issues, while simultaneously massively improving the quality of the products (tolerances/fit, surface polish level, etc.).

This is being done now via the following steps:
1) My new business partner is taking over the supply management
2) Vetting and moving production to more local companies (so we have a closer relationship & direct feedback)
3) Moving forward with advanced polishing techniques that will eliminate ALL titanium burrs/defects while making it mirror smooth (easier to clean and more inert)
4) Moving ALL Titanium production in house so I have 100% control from start to finish!

I am also taking steps to improve customer service and will be expanding my team to help eliminate all wait on emails! I sincerely apologize for the slow response time currently, it was/is completely unacceptable. I have been juggling emails and helping to get orders out in a timely manner; unfortunately it has not been working as orders are only increasing every week.

---

As for some of the common complaints:

A) ALL dabbers are being extended by approx 1cm (will be the same general length as the D-nail Fork Dabber) [this included the Skeleton Handle, normally included with the master sets]

B) The Hurricane cap is being redesigned to have only 1 radius. (think a half hollow globe; or a bowl shape). It will also be much smaller/minimalist vs the current design.

C) Air Flow Adjust: I have had a lot of mixed opinions on this; some absolutely love it, some hate it. I have considered a couple options and would love to get your guy's opinion!
- 1) Eliminate the 4 hole adjust, and make it only 2 holes. This would mean there is still an air flow adjust but it will only have 3 holes in it (allowing for 2 settings: 2 holes open or 1 hole open)
or 2) Eliminate the Air Flow Adjust entirely and go back to a single hole (simple, straight-forward, and would make the caps cheaper )

- Where I personally stand: I liked the idea of the air flow adjust, but have been disappointed with the function. I have been working on some new ideas for an adjust that will allow for a much more precise adjustment. Therefore I am personally leaning towards option 2) Eliminate the Air Flow Adjust; until I can implement the new air adjust design.

---

I want to extend my thanks to all of you here on FuckCombustion for your genuine feedback and critiques! I only have a desire to improve as much as possible. Your honest reviews, both good and bad, are worth their weight in gold to me!
Please continue to be patient with me as this is a massive learning experience and I will continue to strive to bring the very best service I possibly can! I know there will always be issues/problems/speed bumps in the road and I have faith that you all will help me recognize these areas so I can address them. I am simply a man who love to dab and I want everyone else to be able to enjoy it as much as I do everyday!

Your humble servant,

Josh

Hi Josh - great stuff. So glad you dropped in to update us. Super.

I love the half sphere shape is absolutely a GREAT idea and will address my prior concerns with seating the cap. Also, I vote for eliminating the adjustable air flow. Too complex, subject to confusion and perhaps air leakage. Just a nice small carb hole so I can drop the pressure in the bucket is what I personally would favor.

Best of luck.

 

[Armerad]

Hey everyone!

Josh

Hi Josh - great stuff. So glad you dropped in to update us. Super.

I love the half sphere shape is absolutely a GREAT idea and will address my prior concerns with seating the cap. Also, I vote for eliminating the adjustable air flow. Too complex, subject to confusion and perhaps air leakage. Just a nice small carb hole so I can drop the pressure in the bucket is what I personally would favor.

Best of luck.

I agree with @Baron23, the rounded cap with a single air flow hole sounds ideal. One thing I worry about with the inverted dome design is that it will not stay seated without a hand on it to keep the handle upright. If the revamped hurricane could somehow retain the ability to drop it on/"set it and forget it" then I'm sold.

Also, super looking forward to receiving my Liger v3 20mm! Will the new advanced polishing techniques be applied to a recently placed (2/10) order?

 

[Nil]

Does anyone here have a caliper and can measure the opening of the v3 20mm for me? Like the size of the hole that needs to be capped?

I have a glass directional airflow "spinning top" style cap and I want to see if mine will fit before ordering, at this time there is no way I can order one of the CCA710 caps after reading all the issues.

I can't believe I can't find measurements anywhere and I mean I looked hard, I spent hours Googling and was all over Reddit and other sites where people own these things have posted reviews.

The measurement for this hole should AT LEAST be posted on your website @CCA710 so people can see if their already owned caps can fit.

I was about to place an order today or yesterday but after seeing CCA710's post right up there about switching to in-house machining and a "mirror polish" I'm going to have to wait until that happens because there's no way I'm paying the same price just for a better version to be released shortly after.

I would even "pre-order" if it was allowed considering but it seems like it would be best to just wait.

I feel like you're going to get EVEN more orders now that you've told us about an improved version and this makes me think I'm not even going to get a chance to get one of the improved models when it's released ..