1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

Advanced THC e-Juice / mods / tanks / coils / builds / recipes

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by randomtoker, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. CrushnDevour

    CrushnDevour Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    So I had some success with my attempt at ejuice. The wax liquidiser mixed well with the shatter I had, 3:1 ratio, and it is lovely. Just what I was looking for, start feeling it after a few good hits, but around 8 hits at 20w is spot on

    I'm using a Tobecco Super Mini Tank, a trusted favourite of mine when I used it for regular ejuice. I bought some vaporesso ccell coils that fit it, ss316 version, and it has worked well, although not quite as long as I was hoping. 2ml and the first coil went black, vape was really tickly on the chest, swapped coil and it's lovely again. I should note I had used the coil for a day previously, so this likely affected it. I tried temp control but wasn't giving that satisfying hit, so switched to wattage and 20w is working lovely, decent clouds, but more importantly the flavour and the high is beautiful. Am hardly tasting the strawberry cough, but don't care because I can taste the concentrate just fine.

    The tank is bottom airflow, but I've had zero leak issues. It's a simple but quality tank, I knew this from using it before, but it just works. I just make sure to close off airflow before opening top cap for filling, due to pressure etc, helps to not force liquid through the coil. Thought I'd mention this as it may be a simple oversight many make with bottomed airflow tanks.

    Anyway, still some playing around to do but on the whole I'm very happy
     
  2. LayKool

    LayKool Member

    Messages:
    32
    CCell is a registered trademark of Smoore, not a generic phrase. Vaporesso is also a trademark of Smoore which is why you see CCell coils in Vaporesso products.
     
    SoHigh_IFly909 and florduh like this.
  3. Lozo

    Lozo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    72
    Never really had much involvement with concentrates but I'm heading down that path, simply because I'd like to create a E-Liquid that I can use occasional while on the road with an E-Liquid vape of some sort.

    Concentrate: Bought a Dabpress so rosin will be hopefully made soon. Was thinking about a fine bag to press with 40 microns to keep as much plant material out of the rosin.

    E-Liquid Vape: After reading several threads seems like a Vaporesso Drizzle with the ceramic coils is a good place to star.

    Medium: I'd like to keep things simple and just be able to mix my rosin with a medium that then can be used in the Drizzle. Read lots of posts about PG/VG, MCT Oil / Wax liquidizer / PEG400 and about the release of acetaldehyde and formaldehyde when above a certain temp of 230 C. Read that separation with VG and rosin is a distinct possibility. Would the Drizzle keep the temp under 230 C? or would the coils get close to this temp?

    Anyway....going round and round and getting more confused in terms of what to use as a medium for the concentrate.

    Came across VISCOSITY Extract Liquifier. Can I mix my rosin into this and be done?

    Appreciate any help or advice, just seems like a minefield of pros and cons to this.

    Thank you all.
     
  4. CrushnDevour

    CrushnDevour Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    Wax liquidiser claims on its website that it is 100% diacetyl free, of that helps. I don't think you can use temp control on the drizzle, but the veco you can, which is why I'm getting the veco, to give me more control.

    It has been a whirlwind for me also, and so much research done. While the drizzle and veco will work, they aren't perfect from what I gather, and coils can burn out and leak black gunk into the tank. I aim to get round this my swapping coils out on a regular basis, maybe every 2ml or so, to keep flavour and less chance of tank contamination, or ruining my expensive mix.

    I've tried wax liquidiser once for a test, and it certainly worked and was nice and easy.

    Alot of it will be trial and error, but like me, it sounds like you are trying to eliminate this as much as possible to get good results from the off.

    I've changed my mind on which tank I will get numerous times, but I'm just going to stick with the veco and see how that goes.

    The only tank I've seen talked about that will run it fine, is the uwell fancier, but it involves building your own coils and wicking it yourself, too much faff for me, plus Im looking for something not so powerful or juice hungry, to save on costs.
     
    johnnyfj likes this.
  5. Lozo

    Lozo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    72
    That's very interesting @CrushnDevour I may look at the Veco especially with the temp control. I'd do the same with the regular coil change over as you suggest too, for the amount of time I'd be using this system I think the extra hassle and cost won't be too bad.

    I may start with the Wax Liquidiser then and see how I go, sounds like we're on the same path with all this. I'm certainly not into building my own coils and yes it does sound like a lot of extra flaff.

    Thanks pal
     
  6. CrushnDevour

    CrushnDevour Active Member

    Messages:
    15
    It certainly does sound like we're on the same path, I'm intending on using mine quite regularly though. I actually stopped smoking on 1st August, few weeks off and then onto vaping (I've also been limited by when pay day is ha) but it's all a race against time for me to fine a set up to get me going as of next week. I kind of gave up after reading the same articles or forum posts about the same things, which is why I'm just settling on the veco for now.

    At £8 for a pack of 5 coils, the cost to swap out a coil every 2ml or so isn't bad at all. It's cheaper than ruining a mix!

    For the test I did I took my Tobecco Super Tank Mini and put a ceramic coil in, it worked but coil went black pretty quick. They aren't the best ceramic coils though, and with this tank you can't change coil without emptying the tank, big down side for me, the veco can keep the liquid in the tank while you change coil, so no loss, fuss or mess.

    I have some other tanks I wouldn't mind trying, but time is of the essence, as is money, and I know from my research the veco will work, but just requires some thought to the use, as opposed to a regular ecig tank with regular juice.

    My plan is to swap coils regularly, as mentioned, use temp control on as low as I can go, while still getting a decent vape, leave plenty of time between draws to minimize the coil getting too hot while surrounded by my precious mix.

    I also plan to not be stingy with my dilutant (wax liquidiser) the test batch I made was 3:1 ratio, and it was lovely. I may even go higher than this, especially as I've had a few weeks off the bud and so it should hit me a bit harder, but not only will it stretch my concentrate out, but should be easier on my coils.

    I've been vaping nicotine juice for over 2 years, when I first moved to subohm tanks, I had 6mg nicotine, which was fine in a MTL tank, but with the DTL in a subohm, it destroyed my throat! This was because I was getting much more nicotine from the bigger improved hit. I figure it's the same with the THC juice IL be making. There's also several people on here who have said not to be afraid of using more dilutant.

    Anyway, next Wednesday is pay day and I'm planning on getting it all sorted. I really need it! I will keep you updated on my experience, from one noob to another
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
    johnnyfj and Lozo like this.
  7. Lozo

    Lozo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    72
    @CrushnDevour appreciate the post an sounds like a good plan.

    Has anyone used the Vapour Slide V2 ?

    Also as a matter of interest if using a concentrate with a wax liquidiser in a tank / mod system is this still detectable to dogs ?

    Thanks All
     
    CrushnDevour likes this.
  8. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    897
    FWIW, I come from a long line of tank trials in the nicotine vape world, where it's much easier, but also further along. And a shorter, but no less passionate, line of cart and mini-tank trials. E-Jmix works OK, you only use a drop or two. "Terpene" is a broad family of chemicals, some present in hemp, spices, fruit. And all of that stuff is, by definition, used as an additive. The word terpene doesn't guarantee safety, and "natural" is even more meaningless. Of course liquidizers contain no diacetyl, that's a buttery flavoring, so touting "diacetyl-free" would be a lot like saying "no high fructose corn syrup". True, but a BS flag for sure.

    So FWIW allow me to share my impression to date on tanks, I stand to be corrected. It's all a waste. I ended up going back to dripping RDAs with temp control for nicotine. Simple, you can see what you're doing, no internal mysteries or internal combustion. No dark goopy abomination lurking and polluting a (leaking) tankful of fine liquid. For concentrates, same thing. Muzzle loaders, single shot drips and dabs, have a lot of advantages. For one thing, if that last one tasted bleh, the next one can be completely different. So what am I missing?

    The commercial pre-filled carts keep getting much better and in a pinch they seem to deliver something resembling a terpene flavored THC vapor if you run them at reduced wattage and don't overheat them (see dark goopy abomination). The high resistance prevents use of TC.

    @Lozo the dogs are allegedly trained not on THC but on another cannabinoid, or was it a terpene? The purest THC carts should escape notice. I dunno if I'd risk my life on any of it though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
    florduh and tennisguru1 like this.
  9. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    719
    As a nic vaporist as well, I largely agree. But there are circumstances where using a drip RDA, or a load as you go Wax atomizer just isn't convenient. I use the LAYG devices as much as possible. But if I'm out and about without a bag of some type, it's much easier for me to carry a nicotine tank, and a THC cart.
     
  10. Pixelfaust

    Pixelfaust New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Hello everyone,

    I have read this whole thread and a few others. I found all of your posts very helpful, but still I am left with questions.

    I am relatively new to vaping in general, but have smoked weed for a long time. I have the Wismec RX Gen 3 mod and the Uwell Crown 3 aswell as the TFV12 Prince.

    So far the basic information.

    I want to stop blowing, since combustion is unhealthy. I figured that this was the best place to start. I want to make the Uwell Crown 3 my "blowing" tank, as to not mix the normal liquid from the potent one.

    The tank should be fine, the only thing I am now questioning is how to make the juice itself. I want to be able to take a few puffs before getting high, so I thought of mixing. The problem is that I don't know how to get a good mix. I know it is a lot of trial and error, but I wanted to have a baseline.

    The oil that I have is around 20-50% THC and I have 1l of 50/50 base. What would be an approximate to start with?
     
  11. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    897
    Hi and welcopme @Pixelfaust ! Listen you gonna have to do a lot of reading and hopefully that will save you some trial and error that gets costly. The nicotine world is water soluble. The oil world is oil based. Not miscible. Like oil and water. AND the whole vaporization behavior of oils is different enough that old nicotine e-liquid tanks is not the level you want to approach that at, again in the name of not wasting product. Not so simple. But it's a great world of ingenuity and discovery in these forums, we get to follow in the steps and misadventures of the guys who came before us, and finally have it working, well, pretty damned good anyway.
     
  12. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I joined this group because I wanted to share my success with vaping home-made THC juice with a standard temp control mod. Here is where my research and trials have led me:

    I am currently vaping shatter, mixed 1:1 with PG, and I am loving it. I can get what I need with three hits. The only thing you have to make sure of is that your shatter is de-waxed/winterized. Waxed material will end up clogging the wick, or coil, depending what tank you're using. Most recipes I've seen for THC juice call for a 2:1 mix, which I don't understand. Even that wax liquidizer stuff says to mix 2:1. I always wanted to make it as strong as possible while staying thin enough to properly wick. I think it would still work with even less PG, but my results have been so satisfying that I haven't messed with formula. I just heat the shatter/PG to around 140F, stir until it is completely mixed, draw it up (while hot) into a syringe, let cool, and fill the tank. Do not fill any tank while the juice is still hot or after about a half hour, you'll have a sticky mess to clean up....and speaking of hot juice, don't ever leave a tank in a hot car. I also use flavorings I bought from perfumersapprintice of which I mix to about 5-6% of total volume. I'm currently mixing 3% black cherry and 3% blackberry and it's mild, but it covers the PG taste which is also mild but I don't like it; yet another reason for wanting to use less PG.
    Please, if you're going to mess with flavors, be sure to look up the MSDS Data sheet on every flavor you intend to use because MOST of them contain nasty chemicals which have workplace exposure limits. Furthermore, none of the flavors are approved for inhalation...they're only FDA approved for oral consumption. That being said....the only flavors I use are a short list I've found to contain no chemicals.
    I've used many tanks and all work ok, but after trying the U-well Crown in SS temp mode, I haven't looked back. I soon realized that changing coils could get expensive, not to mention they have a lot of cotton and if you burn out a coil, you could lose a half gram of shatter....unacceptable. So after more playing around I settled on the RTA style because I can make any size or material coil I want, and there's not very much cotton needed for the wick. I'm currently using the Kayfun 5s. This thing is an engineering masterpiece. I tried a bunch of the Chinese, $40 atomizers and they work fine, but the Kayfun 5 is German made, and the tight tolerances make for a very consistent vape with no leaks. I like that it holds two ML, that way I use one gram of shatter which mixes up to make one full tank and that tank lasts me about a week. I've been using it every day for two months, and I use it about four or five times a day. The juice control works awesome, but if you wick it right, you don't even need to close it. I'm using SS316L round clapton wire to make a .4-.5 ohm coil to use in Temp mode. The Dicodes Dani Box Mini and the Yihi sx mini g class are my daily driver mods, and they look awesome with the Kayfun.
    By the way....I haven't SMOKED any weed since the start of this year, but I sure have vaped the hell out of it!

    I hope this info will help anybody unsure about making good THC vape juice.
     
    florduh and Accept like this.
  13. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    738
    Great first post! You're absolutely right to be concerned about inhaling flavors, and yours is a good strategy for minimizing risk. Perfumer's Apprentice is one of the only suppliers responsible enough to provide this information. Curious - what is your short list? Tried a similar project, but didn't find any flavors that inspired confidence. Noticed PA sells individual flavor chemicals now.

    Do you need to heat to 140F? Will 110F do? You may be able to preserve your shatter's own delightful flavors at a lower temperature.

    Another flavor supplier you might consider is Medicine Flower. They sell natural flavors extracted with CO2, much like cannabis. Their flavors are complex and remarkably accurate. A natural product isn't necessarily safer than a synthetic one, and it's more difficult (or impossible) to research all of the components of a natural flavor.

    Since you're wrapping your own coils, have you tried vaping undiluted shatter directly from the coils? This load-as-you-go option works especially well.
     
    Island Andy and tennisguru1 like this.
  14. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    897
    Welcome @Island Andy ! I think many of us have tried PG, and as you note, the taste isn't great. There are also miscibility issues at different ratios. I'm glad your mixes don't separate at all, that's not been my luck. I couldn't stomach a 1:1 mix. I'm a nic vaper, and I like my kayfun V4s, but I favor VG, I don't use more than a few drops of PG, and the idea of adding water-miscible food flavoring isn't palatable.

    There are IMHO better additives to decrease viscosity, including E-JMix, that works in far far lower amounts. Like a few drops per ml. And then we have the terpene-based approach, where you can get bona fide miscibility, both tasteful and tasteless options, and good thinning. A lot of us here really relish the taste of good extracts, and that's what the effort has been towards. Lots of different approaches.

    Divine Tribe has some interesting vaporizers that work in temp control on standard 510 mods. My favorite is the Quartz Quest.

    https://ineedhemp.com/product/quartz-quest-510-thread-concentrate-atomizer/

    Take a look, it's a muzzle loader, single shot, but look ma, nothing added, straight concentrates. With a lower wattage and temp than what he recommends there is no risk of "foul high temp flavor".

    There's a whole Divine Tribe thread under e-cig type vaporizers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
    SubRosa likes this.
  15. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Thank You. My short list is Blackberry, Black Cherry, Mango, and Apricot from Perfumers Apprentice. I've been stuck on the Blackberry/Black Cherry mixed so I haven't looked up any more. I also looked up some of the natural terpenes and I don't remember exactly what it said, but I threw away the strawberry terpenes I had bought so it probably was not good. I suppose any temp that you could get the shatter to completely dissolve in the PG would work, as long as it doesn't separate after it cools. I have not tried shatter directly on the coils....but I will now. Thanks for the tip, I'll check out Medicine Flower.
     
  16. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I did find out the hard way that shatter is not soluble in VG, but I am curious why I have not had any separation issues with my mixes. I looked up E-JMix and it also mixes 1:1, mL/g, but maybe with its other PEG components it will taste a little better than straight PG. I totally agree with trying to preserve the concentrates' flavors, so I will continue to look for something better. I have to say though, being able to sit in a bathroom stall and medicate without anyone else in the room knowing its weed..is really a beautiful thing.
     
  17. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    738
    :hmm: Are we looking at the same page? This is the component list for black cherry.

    There's a great old thread about this. Went on for years. Still prefer this method to dabbing.

    Safe to say PEG tastes even worse than PG.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
    florduh and Vape Donkey 650 like this.
  18. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    897
    @Island Andy FWIW, I have used EJMix in FAR smaller amounts with good results. I wouldn't dream of using any of these glycols in a 1:1 ratio, that's technology of 4 years ago. With a thicker oil, you just apply heat more slowly, so it has time to liquify at the wick. If you need to vape in bathrooms, I suppose an emergency cart/mod could be assembled with whatever masking scents. And whatever works for you works, that's the most important. But it's not comparable, IMHO, for normal use, to tasty clean cannabis vaporizing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    Vape Donkey 650 likes this.
  19. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
  20. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    This is the sheet I was looking at: 305050.pdf
    Now I'm confused, the SDS sheet doesn't list those chemicals in the "exposure limit" section.
    If you read the SDS for Pear flavor, it lists a few chemicals. ???
     
  21. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    738
    Propylene glycol may be the only ingredient that has an exposure limit established. The component list linked to above is the result of a chemical analysis of a sample of black cherry flavor. On that page, it says:

     
  22. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    897
    Yeah, but you run a sample of hemp extract through that GC/MS machine and you'll have a longer list of chemicals. The world is made of chemicals. It doesn't mean any of them are toxic. But it also doesn't mean a collection of ketones and stuff that where assembled to kinda taste like black cherries is safe to inhale.

    Natural butter gives off diacetyl. It's great on toast. It also tastes good in a custard or fruity vape. But it's very very hard on your lungs if you breathe it, you end up needing a lung transplant. Nobody had tested it that way and then workers at buttered popcorn plants started getting very sick from breathing some. Oops. We learnin'.

    That's just one case, but nobody has done a lot of inhalation testing on food flavoring. It's like the FDA has not tested (so far) putting crunchy peanut butter up your behind, because it's not a common activity. A few flavoring compounds like Ethyl Maltol were tested, because of their use in cigarettes. Oh and relatives of diacetyl were also tested -- after the fact. Now at least most e-liquid blenders should know not to use diacetyl for that extra-deelish touch.

    The thing about cannabis that's different is that by trial and error over millennia we've bred it for certain properties, and tested it enthusiastically, and thus learned it's not very harmful to inhale. If we add other compounds, or vastly increased amounts of terpenes that are normally present, but in trace amounts, then it's different, kind of like starting over. New FDA filing ;-)

    Oh and @Island Andy , look at these.

    https://www.vape710.ca/product/5-distillate-cartridges-with-ceramic-atomizers/

    I've not tried them yet, but a lot of people swear by them.
    Some swear AT them ...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianMOMs/comments/7ncopz/looking_for_the_best_price_on_distillate/
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    florduh likes this.
  23. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    738
    Professionally, recently commented on FDA's advance notice on regulating flavors in tobacco products. FDA cited a recent article in which the authors analyzed 30 e-liquids quantitatively. The complete discussion:

    Benzaldehyde and vanillin are among the components of the black cherry flavor that the OP mentions.

    There's very little information available on the risk of inhaling flavor components. This is one of the first reports of even a limited quantitative analysis, and it raises significant concerns, IMO.

    Could not get these to work well with shatter, even when decarbed into oil. Might work better with CO2 extract or distillate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    looney2nz and Vape Donkey 650 like this.
  24. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I guess my research skills are shit to say the least. Looks like flavors are to be used at our own risk. Thanks for clearing that up. I will probably still use them for now, but will certainly be looking for an alternative to PG altogether so as to not need flavors.
     
  25. Island Andy

    Island Andy New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Excellent statement; chemicals are even in the air we breathe. I think I may go back to the drawing board and phase out my use of flavors for no other reason than what you and I both already stated: The FDA has not tested food flavorings for inhalation.
     

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors