Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by TrueNorthStar, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    i am going to be ordering some Devine Tribes donuts and cups soon. my goal is to see if i notice any difference in flavor between these and my Ti coils. i personally do not believe that i am getting any metal taste from my Ti coils because of the TC. i just dont believe the Ti is getting hot enough to put off a metal flavor.

    so i want to try the ceramic donut route. problem with the ceramic donuts is they they dont wick oil. it will splatter or just run off the donut when heated. i know that is why the cup is there, but i gotta find out for myself.

    when i get everything ill do side by side comparisons and will share what i find with pics.

    oh and here are better pics of my coils. still searching for a good name for them. as you can see from the pics the oil hides in the nooks and crannies of this coil. the side shot shows you the reservoir the two coils created when put together. also note that the clapton coil is wrapped "loosely" to provide space for the inner coils leads to wrap onto.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  2. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    so i found this info on another forum and thought i would share here. i imagine this goes for any ceramic including popular choices like the ceramic donuts and FC-2000. it does make me wonder about ceramic coils/wicks and their safety. id like to hear some thoughts from others on this.

    this info comes from UWELL the popular tank and RDA mfg.

    "The Truth and Science behind Ceramic Coils

    Customers have asked why Uwell doesn’t makes ceramic coils since the ceramic coil has a longer life compared with the Crown 2 coil and some ceramic coils even have better taste.

    The article followed contains some researches and analysis of how ceramic coils affect vapers’ health and it may help to answer the question.

    Uwell realizes the short life of the Crown 2 coil and we are developing coils to taste better and last longer. The latest version has increased life time and is now on the market. The good news is that there is positive response.

    Figure 1 shows three kinds of ceramic coils on the market (#1, #2, and #3 stands for three different brands, respectively).

    For #1, there is a layer of cotton between the ceramic and the coil. This design is lower in strength and makes the ceramic fragile. For example, the ceramic coil breaks apart when pinched and tiny powders fall off and stick onto the cotton. It is also hard to distinguish the cotton and the ceramic material since they are both white. In the case of #2 and #3, the ceramic material and the coil are heated up together to be made into one piece. However, the melting point of the coil is lower than the ceramic material so this causes the surface of the coil to be loose and porous. This makes the coil have low durability, is fragile, and has powders falling off.


    [​IMG]

    Figure 2 shows partial end surface microstructure of #1, #2, and #3.

    All three ceramic coils appear translucent with a glasslike exterior. Visible light can be reflected and scattered by pores inside the ceramic material. This is what makes it a translucent surface. The ceramic coil is made from silica similar to glass. Therefore, the ceramic coil appears as a glasslike surface. Many impurities can be seen at a magnification of 100X from a microscope and they appear as black spots. The glasslike particles are not uniform and appear to be uneven and chaotic. The tiny glass pieces have sharp surfaces that can scratch the trachea and alveoli when used. The black spots could also be unrefined toxic material that could have impurities.


    [​IMG]

    Figure 3 shows partial cross section surface microstructure of #1, #2 and #3.

    After breaking the material for the cross section, we can see glasslike particles with sharp surfaces. The glasslike particles are clearly visible at the magnification of 100X.


    [​IMG]

    Figure 4 shows partial edge surface microstructure of #1, #2, and #3.

    Some parts have defects and some parts have sharp edges. This comes from two steps in making the ceramic coil. In the first step, the friction causes defects and coarse edges when samples are removed from the mold. In the second step, the surface of the ceramic coil is loose from the friction between the ceramic powders and the mold. The loose powders cannot be heated up and molded onto a dense body. The ceramic powders also stick to the surface of the ceramic coil. This process also makes the ceramic powders fall off easily.


    [​IMG]

    Figure 5 shows ceramic powders falling off microstructure #1, #2, and #3.

    When the ceramic powder is touched, the powder sticks onto that surface. All these powders are glasslike pieces with sharp edges mentioned above in the optical microscope. The size of the ceramic powder is distributed between 30120 micrometers which is too tiny to be seen by the human eye.


    [​IMG]

    Figure 6 shows the microscope image on the contact segment between ceramic and coil.

    Number #1 does not compare with others since its coil does not come in contact with the ceramic material. Many ceramic powders gather at the position near coil. The first reason is that the coil cannot be easily compressed into a ceramic material when the ceramic material is molded. This is because the cross section of the coil is circular. The second reason is that powders are produced after taking the coil off of the mold. It is impossible to clean the powders stuck to the inner surface of the ceramic coil. There are ceramic powders on the inside of all ceramic coils on the market.


    [​IMG]

    Finally, ceramic coils may cause death. Making the ceramic material
    The ceramic coil is made from inorganic porous ceramic material. There are tiny pores inside the ceramic material that cannot be seen. Pores play an important role in wicking. In order to produce a porous ceramic material, raw materials such as silica powders and poreforming materials like starch or other organic polymers are needed. Then they are mixed and put into a mold with high pressure. Samples are obtained with a fixed shape. The samples are put into a furnace and set to a high temperature. Pores are formed while the poreforming agent combusts and escapes. This kind of pore plays an important role by introducing eliquid into your vape. However, to make enough pores, the temperature to stick the materials together is lower which causes low tensile and compressive strength. The powders fall off or crack when the ceramic coil is touched or shaken. All the powders can be introduced into the lung by air which is dangerous (the speed of air can reach 223mph when we are vaping).

    Vaping

    Ceramic coils will absorb more eliquid. Eliquid is vaporized and evaporated when the coil is working. High pressure from the vapor will expand and damage the structure of the porous ceramic material. Loose powders will fall off and go into the lung.

    Causing death

    Silicosis is a form of occupational lung disease caused by inhalation of crystalline silica dust. Symptoms are inflammation and scarring in the form of nodular lesions in the upper lobes of the lungs. This is a type of pneumoconiosis. Silicosis can be complicated by the development of severe scarring, where small nodules gradually merge together, reaching a size of 1cm or greater. Progressive massive fibrosis is associated with more severe symptoms and respiratory impairment. Silicosis can also be complicated by other lung diseases such tuberculosis, nontuberculous mycobacterial infection, and fungal infection, certain autoimmune diseases, and lung cancer ("Silicosis." Wikipedia. Wikimedia Foundation, n.d. Web.
    29 Sept. 2016.)(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis).


    In conclusion, ceramic coils are not healthy. First, a ceramic coil is made from silica similar to glass. Second, ceramic powders or glasslike pieces easily fall off. Finally, silica powders may cause death.

    Uwell is working hard to develop a better ceramic coil. However, it is impossible to continue with current technology. Therefore, Uwell will put making a ceramic coil on hold.

    Uwell wants to tell customers the truth. Uwell will never produce a product that causes death. Would you buy a coil that lasts longer at the cost of your life?"


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  3. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    I jumped in with the Uwell Rafale X as recommended by @2clicker

    But, I went with that fused clapton wire from kbees.

    Did a non contact coil wrapped around a 4mm rod. pretty long.

    Seems to work good, have only used it 4-5 times so far, but seems to vaporize everything without anything falling to the deck, so I am tentatively saying 'Success!'

    also, i took one of the silicon sleeves that came with my e-nano stems and pulled that over the Rafale X mouthpiece...that seems to make a good seal in an 18mm female. :)
     
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  4. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    very nice. yeah one of the only negatives for the rafale X rda is the driptip IMO. i just wish the cap could take a standard 510 driptip. i do like the anti splatter feature tho. i picked up a couple of plastic driptips for the rafale X at fasttech and love them. they have been discontinued now tho. ugh. the metal tips that come with the rda collect skin from your lips and that can be gross after a while. the plastic tips help with this, but there is still some metal exposed to lips because the drip tip is so short. so i like your tubing idea for that. i could get some this silicone to cover the whole mouthpiece area. and it would work as a seal for glass.

    i recently tried SS316 wire and i gotta say im fully converted. from what i gather SS wire is safer than Ti. you can dry burn it w/out worry of oxidation. there are some claiming that torching it will start to break it down after a while and the SS may flake (jury is still out on this), but i would never torch it or get it glowing red so this is of no concern to me. also SS wire can be used in TC or VV/VW mode. i can say that i am getting a cleaner flavor profile using SS over Ti and im stoked about that.

    the only downside to SS tho is that contact coils dont really work for TC. you really have to space the coils a but and then it works fine.

    current settings on my Evic Vtwo mini are:
    SS316
    40watts
    .59ohms
    360degF
     
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  5. jpdnkstr

    jpdnkstr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    Location:
    Third Coast
    What's a fair price and good vendor for the Rafael? I just got ss316L fused Clapton 24core/34wrap from lightning vapes, but haven't used it yet, but I have been using ss316 single core Clapton 24/34 with a porous ceramic rod in the center which I would like to do away with.
     
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  6. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    I got mine from my vapor store, still not seeing a ton of use, but seems to be working well.
     
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  7. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    i ordered my 2nd rafale X directly from Uwell. about $15 shipped.

    EDIT* my apologies. i got it from vaporbeast and it was $12.47 shipped.
     
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  8. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    So, the small amount of dabbing I have been doing has been nearly exclusively on the Rafale X lately., near instant hits instead of waiting on my old titanium nail even with a decent blazer torch.

    I get big enough dabs for me and I think the coil could take bigger, but I might copy that flathead screwdriver wrapped design if i needed area for more oil and bigger dabs... I have plenty of surface area for the size dabs I've been taking.

    I'm not a super flavour snob, although I do like flavour. I'm not sure it's the most flavourful, but probably at least as good as what I was using. No off-flavour or anything I can detect yet.
     
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  9. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    yep it works amazing for me.

    what kind of wire are you running?

    as for the flavor... i find that the first rip is where all the flavor is. so i try to rip the whole dab at once. anything left after that, while it hits well, just doesnt have the flavor. so yeah i try to rip the dab all at once.
     
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  10. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    http://www.kbeevapes.com/product-p/ss316l-2_26_32.htm

    ^^ this is the stuff

    yeah I try and get it all at once. occasionally can't and have to cover the air-holes as best I can.

    I was using it on the cuboid, tried my vtwo mini and I'm not sure I like it with slightly lower wattage. the vtwo mini maxes out at 75... but haven't used the single battery mod extensively. I've decided I like the better battery life with The Project (on the cuboid). I don't need much battery life with the e-cig dab rig, but I'm a little worried I'll want more power.


    requires, further testing...For Science!
     
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  11. jpdnkstr

    jpdnkstr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    Location:
    Third Coast
    Rafale X is on the way from vapor beast, along with a velocity mini clone to play with.
     
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  12. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    more than 75 watts? for dabbing?

    my vtc mini and vtwo mini settings are SS316 tc mode, 380F, and 30watts and it chokes me out if i let it. i cant imagine even trying to run it at the full 75watts. maybe ill have to try it. i actually like a small ramp up time. that way the oil wont splatter as much.

    science!
     
  13. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    I'm pretty sure it just ramps up faster and then uses necessary power to maintain temperature.

    But depending on battery it can be too high for single 18650 (I think only when battery is low though, higher current draw because voltage is lower)
     
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  14. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    i gotcha. i meant i like a bit of a ramp up. i prefer there was a ramp up over getting to temp instantly. though too long of a ramp up would be a bad thing as far as hit quality goes.
     
  15. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    making a jig with a swivel on it for making claptons, fused claptons, and any other type of coil that uses a drill. its a prototype, but should work well. its two pieces actually and will have a part that holds the spool of wire with a spring to dial in the tension for the spool. ill post some pics after its together and ive confirmed it works as it should.
     
  16. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    new coil and i gotta say.... this is the best ive tried to date. it wicks like crazy, but can be a tough build. flavor in TC in amazing.

    staggered dual fused clapton
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    so ive just been given access to over 1 million dollars worth of industrial machining equipment. lathes, cnc, water jet, 3d printers, laser cutters/etchers, you name it. anyway im likely going to attempt to design and produce my own custom RDA for dabbing. my only concern is the 510 threads.

    is there a die for such a thread? how does one ensure this would be correct? im very familiar with different industry thread sizes and just arent familiar with these ecig connection threads. is it common?

    any help is appreciated!
     
  18. jpdnkstr

    jpdnkstr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    Location:
    Third Coast
    Put me down for a few of these when you are finished... I still haven't found the perfect one. 510 should be fairly easy to find machine info on , I hope.
     
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  19. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    683
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  20. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    what types of features are you looking for?

    good lookin out! i ended up finding out that the 510 connection is actually just M7 x 0.5. so thats no sweat. this is still very much in its infancy and there is a chance it never works out, but im gonna take a class or two on some of the dif equipment and see what i can do.

    another question i do have, one that maybe @Ratchett could answer, is about peek insulators. or the peek material in general. can this stuff be 3d printed? or injection molded?

    these machines at this place are incredible. i want to know how to use each one.
     
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  21. Ratchett

    Ratchett Vape Accessories Delta3DStudios.com Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,921
    PEEK is a tool-grade plastic. It is extremely high temperature. It *can* be 3D printed using special all metal printheads designed to handle temperatures exceeding 300C (Although caution to any 3D printing geeks watching - PEEK offgassing is toxic, so be sure to 3D print in a well ventilated environment).

    Alternatively, a block of PEEK plastic can be easily machined using a CNC mill. This is typically more popular use of PEEK as opposed to 3D printing due to the temperatures involved.
     
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  22. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    sounds like machining the peek is the smart way to go.

    well i suppose im going to be taking the metal milling class and the lathe class. ive done very little metal work in the past so im having a hard time realizing which machine is needed and for what part. probably use the lathe to get the diameter of the cap and base precise and all that. then mill out the deck from the base. mill out the inside of the cap. drill some holes. lol yeah ive got a lot to learn.

    trying to decide on a post design. or however securing the coil leads will work. so much work for such a small item. lol
     
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  23. b0

    b0 Cloudy...

    Messages:
    1,802
    Location:
    Another spaniard in UK
    So I just found this post and read a few pages of it and have decided to give this a go. Never been 100% happy with the performance I was having with coils and this seems cheap enough to give it a try.

    I have decided to buy a rafale x (seems to have a good price and seems easy to "use")but I'm still not sure if I should go SS or Ti and wich kind of coil to use, but I know I want to avoid using a wick. Got paranoid with the ceramic and I don't think it makes sense to use anything else.

    Are premade coils good or should I do them myself?

    Sorry for the bunch of questions, this post seems so interesting... Will keep reading on the mean time :)
     
    2clicker likes this.
  24. 2clicker

    2clicker kill your masters Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,543
    what premade coils are you referring to? like premaid claptons and stuff like that?

    i would recommend building if you have the time and have the patience. also pay attention to where your wire is coming from. ive been hearing from some of the crazy ecig builders that Lightning Vapes wire isnt that great. and that sandvik is a mfr who makes very good wire. i believe that Temco.com sells sandvik wire, but i am going to confirm that. also id just go with SS and leave Ti alone. Ti can produce oxides that could be pretty bad you. how bad for you is still up for debate, but we know that SS will not. in fact you can torch SS316 wire all you want. make it glow red. itll still be safe and taste great. so dry burning to clean and torching to clean is in play here for sure. yes Ti can be used safely, but from my experience with both Ti and SS, SS is every bit as easy to work with and provides the same clean taste as Ti. maybe better. SS can also be run in power mode if TC isnt your thing where Ti should not be. my recommendation would be to def get a TC compatible device.

    i also agree about going wickless. ceramic is ok so long as its not porous. the info i posted before about ceramics being dagerous goes for porous silica ceramics. not all ceramics.
     
  25. b0

    b0 Cloudy...

    Messages:
    1,802
    Location:
    Another spaniard in UK
    Thanks for your answer! With premade coils I meant something like this:

    tanks-coils-and-wicks/rda-rta-premade-coils.html

    Will this work well to start with? I would like to make my own in the future but don't have tools for it and I'm totally lost, not sure what I would need.

    I already have an Evic mini and was thinking about getting a knight v2 in the future, looking to use TC in my build for sure if possible.

    Also decided to go for a Rafale X, seems to be the more used around here and has plenty of space to work with.

    Any other recommendations? I'm a big noob so any help welcomed!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017

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