Discontinued Thermovape Cera
- Thread starter SameOldTim
- Start date
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
I'm one of the people touting the "don't clean" method, I just can't be bothered 
I think taste suffers slightly with use but it's still not bad IMO
I think taste suffers slightly with use but it's still not bad IMO
coffinoff
Well-Known Member
First impression the moisture conditioner: Works fine as a normal extended drip tip but there's no noticeable "moisture conditioning" going on. I wasn't really expecting much but, just as others have said, it doesn't hold enough water to really be effective in proportion to the amount of vapor it has to touch, and it certainly does not stay very moist for very long. For some reason I thought the ceramic reservoir would be more substantial but it appears to just be one very small and rather insubstantial ring.
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
i've actually wondered if i can break the ceramic disk and get the bits out to increase air flow
darkrom
Great Scott!
I don't see why not. I liked my moisture tip, but its in the bottom of some nasty ass river right now.
I might get one of those carbon fiber tips for the cera. I'm definitely not a fan of the EO tip.
OF
Well-Known Member
I tend to go by start up from cold and taste and 'thickness' of the first few solid hits. This means staying conscious of the battery state (substitute in a 'known good' if in doubt) so I know what to expect normally. The major task here is to judge the fill, the cleanness is judged over several loadings generally.
Also knowing the concentrate gives me a clue, I know how fast it normally sinks in on loading, as it fouls this gets slower and sometimes 'spotty' even.
This is also backed up by weight. They seem to pick up .2 or so at the first loading (best cleaning gets about this close to new) and need about .25 to fill the reservoir enough so the surface is wet and the action on heating fast and easy to control. When you have to hang on the heat to bake out the stuff in the bulk ceramic because the surface is dry and has not had time to recover is when you make the big messes I think. Not waiting too long to top up is a good practice. At the first sign of 'is this getting low' I look at the plate for more clues.
Clogs around the vent holes can be normal depending on fill level and concentrate. But when I know the fill level is OK and it crops up with concentrate that never did before at that level I consider fouling and cleaning.
I try to ride the early side of the (highly subjective) line since effective cleaning is much easier if you don't cook the junk over and over trying to get to the remaining THC under it.
In a single word, "experience"? I know that's not what you wanted of course, but those are the things I think I look for. I question when the results aren't as expected based on experience I guess.
Well done. As I just said, cleaning before you bake it on good and hard is much easier.....kind of like the kitchen oven I guess.....
I think you should consider that most of that .3 grams will go to filling up the reservoir enough to get it to work at all. You'll get a lot more out of the next .3 than this one.
As to dose I suggest you go by the numbers as a base point. Use top shelf bud at say 18% where you leave say 3% behind in ABV? Against that you have BHO at something over 60% most likely (to be conservative), four times the THC delivered gram for gram. So if you now use half a gram of top shelf a day expect something like .125 grams (1/8 gram) of 'medium grade' BHO. Less if your extract is stronger of course.
Aside from the fact you agreed to just that when you 'signed up' (check the rules.....) it's not really all that hard. Entering 'cleaning' in the search for this thread alone found nearly 200 times it's been mentioned here.
And for sure it's not our responsibility here to hand it to you.
You should by now have picked up the basics? Unless you reclaim, boiling is more effective as a first step. Cleaning before it gets real bad is better. While you don't have to, most I think remove the rings before boiling or soaking. If you don't have spares or aren't comfortable with it, by all means leave them be. Be sure it's dry before adding oil again (they don't mix well.....), some guys bake theirs (stay below about 250F).
If it's gone too far to wash out the junk, try a '20/20/20' burn or two. Dry core, fresh battery, 20 seconds on, 20 off, 20 on for a total of 20 cycles. Back to back, don't let it cool off. Use a clock, don't 'count'. This seems to be more important in the Revolution/DART where the reservoir and working element is much smaller. I always follow such a burn run with a good washing, hoping to flush the ash out rather than get it stuck in the fresh oil.
In the old days we used to recommend Ultrasonic cleaners on Revolution/DART cores. Works great, but also breaks leads in core heaters sometimes.....so best avoided I think.
I've no doubt missed a few things, and for sure my way is not the only (or even the best) way. It's just what I've found to work best so far (and why). As it usually is it's up to the individual to make the call, hopefully an informed call?
Sure you can, but it won't increase the flow. The gap around it is very much bigger than the vents, that's where the choke point is. By design, actually.
OF
Last edited:
coffinoff
Well-Known Member
Actually, the info on weight difference illustrated things pretty well for me. And advice on keeping things moderately topped off so as to not overcook the bottom was pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I get what you meant when you said you expect to lose some with every cleaning now. It gets more and more noticeable when you're hitting the dregs after you haven't filled up in a while. Thanks for taking the time.
All this talk about EO cleaning and use is very interesting. Since this is all new to me, I have a few questions. So far I have run 1 gram of wax through my core. Brand new, the core weighed 42.26 g. I use that as a baseline to see how full my core is. Now, it barely hits unless I really lay on the power, and I get a huge burnt tasting hit. The core weighs 42.38g. So did I use up all my wax and there is .12g of junk in my core? Or, is that .12g of good wax, but the core can't heat that little amount to produce effectively as it needs about .25g to do so? If the latter is true, then I'm assuming this is the waste OF is talking about when a clean is necessary? Seems like at some point the bad build up must weigh something and factor in the equation so that you really aren't wasting the good stuff, but cleaning out the bad buildup.
OF
Well-Known Member
You're very welcome, glad to help if I can. I think you're looking at it like I do, which makes us right and them wrong......right?
Best wishes.
I think you're running too lean. You need more oil it there. You're now in a mode of trying to bake enough THC out of the inside of the ceramic to make vapor. In the process you're seriously overheating the rest (or at least some of it).
I see it as being a bit like your car's gas tank. Water and other nasty stuff lurks in the dregs, run an older tank down to the point you try to feed this and trouble can follow. You can wash the contamination out at some point along the line and fill again with fresh fuel. Ideally what little contamination is in the dregs in the EO core is washed out in due time as well.
As part of the getting acquainted exercise, try keeping .25 to .50 over clean weight (not new) for a while as you work on hit technique. Then, when you're better friends, you can explore more or less as a fill?
Good luck. Follow the results you like.
OF
Krazzykid
Well-Known Member
Glad it worked for you DR!
The 99%ISO really makes all the difference IMO.
Doing it my way of putting the cart and ISO in a bag(or similar enclosed container ex; tupperware) and putting it in hot water really gets most if not all usable oil out of the cart, leaving behind only contaminates.
ISO works much better when warm, and this is a safe way of heating it up.
BHO can really hit you hard, esp if it isn't something you are used to. Small hits will probably work best for you until you begin to build up a tolerance to it.
I am with OF, .3 is really just enough to get things going and is still on the lean side. I would go with .6 myself.
I go through around .1-.2 a day myself. I only use really good, high thc content oils though.
On an extremely painful day I can go through .5-1.0 gram
I pretty much use Cera for all my oil now a days and I am a heavy user. I have 3 EO cores but the original one has next to no airflow and never has since new, it has been sent in twice with no change in airflow. The other two are perfect airflow.
I do a self clean lately that keeps me from having to do soaks for 2-3 weeks. I use a small piece of paper towel rolled up so it comes in contact with the top ceramic, hold upside down and heat, repeat until ceramic is dry. I then do some Sherlock puffing to get the core super hot and try and Burn off as much crud that has built up. This keeps things fairly clean but eventually it needs an ISO soak to help with the black crude that builds up and effects performance and taste.
Both of the perfect airflow carts have had 30g or more each go through them and each can be cleaned to original weight of the new cart, with in .05 at least.
I am going to order a sub $50 sonic cleaner from amazon today to see how well one of these cleans and will let you all know the results. But it is my opinion at this point the self cleaning method does a great job of burning most of this off where I found the 20/20/20 method to not so effective at getting the tar like build up out. My hopes are the ultra sonic will help to break this hard crust off the ceramic and tight spots in a reasonable amount of time, we shall see.
I do a self clean lately that keeps me from having to do soaks for 2-3 weeks. I use a small piece of paper towel rolled up so it comes in contact with the top ceramic, hold upside down and heat, repeat until ceramic is dry. I then do some Sherlock puffing to get the core super hot and try and Burn off as much crud that has built up. This keeps things fairly clean but eventually it needs an ISO soak to help with the black crude that builds up and effects performance and taste.
Both of the perfect airflow carts have had 30g or more each go through them and each can be cleaned to original weight of the new cart, with in .05 at least.
I am going to order a sub $50 sonic cleaner from amazon today to see how well one of these cleans and will let you all know the results. But it is my opinion at this point the self cleaning method does a great job of burning most of this off where I found the 20/20/20 method to not so effective at getting the tar like build up out. My hopes are the ultra sonic will help to break this hard crust off the ceramic and tight spots in a reasonable amount of time, we shall see.
Thanks for the response OF. I do understand about running it lean, and typically run the cart above .3g with amazing results - warm up for 5 seconds and get very large hits on demand.
I was trying to see how far I could run the cart down, and then was trying to figure out once it stopped producing, if the remaining weight over empty was actual oil or gunk (waxes) that have built up. Seems like it may be a combination of the two which makes me feel a little better about cleaning it without wasting an actual .2 of usable oil. Maybe I'll also consider a soak of ISO first in order to grab the reclaim.
Soflo
Only birdshit and fools
[quote/] I do a self clean lately that keeps me from having to do soaks for 2-3 weeks. I use a small piece of paper towel rolled up so it comes in contact with the top ceramic, hold upside down and heat, repeat until ceramic is dry. I then do some Sherlock puffing to get the core super hot and try and Burn off as much crud that has built up. This keeps things fairly clean but eventually it needs an ISO soak to help with the black crude that builds up and effects performance and taste.
[/quote]
I found this out by accident, I put one of those sticky furniture leg ends on my button, put it down on the boat and the button got depressed by accident, I didn't notice until 20 min later when I smelled oil cooking. it melted the cera to my leather pouch and spewed oil everywhere. I let it cool down, changed the battery, reloaded, and it hit like it was brand new! I thought it was definatly screwed, but to my amazment it was new again!
[/quote]
I found this out by accident, I put one of those sticky furniture leg ends on my button, put it down on the boat and the button got depressed by accident, I didn't notice until 20 min later when I smelled oil cooking. it melted the cera to my leather pouch and spewed oil everywhere. I let it cool down, changed the battery, reloaded, and it hit like it was brand new! I thought it was definatly screwed, but to my amazment it was new again!
OF
Well-Known Member
This has been well tested and is strongly discouraged. Such vibrations have not only proven themselves able to break the heater leads where they mount (at the ends), but it's also held to be the likely cause of several units that arrived after long international shipments broken.
At one point I was a big advocate of this (early days of Revolution/DART) but when actual testing broke heaters under controlled conditions I changed my tune. Ultrasonics are to be avoided IMO for resonance reasons.
You're now the fourth guy I know that's used a 'latching switch' to blow oil all over. One guy even did it twice (fortunately both times on the kitchen counter). He laughed it off saying 'it could have been the leather seats in the car.....'. Another guy had it go off in the cup holder in the car......less than a foot from the upholstery.
AFAIK in all cases the Cera did just fine. Latching switches can be seen as 'a two edged sword' I think. Like what George Washington said about government being like fire "a dangerous (sometimes quoted as 'troublesome') servant but a fearful master". If it gets away from the user's control........
OF[/quote]
Last edited:
Guess I will find out for myself. Zeki seemed to like theirs and he gave me advice on what to do, I would think he would advised against it if they where having such issues.
Still I will listen to your warning and do my testing on the core that has no air flow since it is in the junk pile anyway.
Last edited:
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Yeah, I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but I did the 15 minute boil, then in a bag of 91% in hot tap water, and managed to burn through the shit on top of my DART ceramic... from black to white! Not all the way, but I'll be damned if I'm not happy with it. Thought the ceramic was on fire at first, but it was just the coil glowing underneath
OF
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know 'they like theirs' (wanna guess who suggested it?) but for component parts NOT FOR COMPLETED CORES. This was well discussed a while back. The possibility of breaking a heater lead this way is real.
Think what you want, but they most definitely had such issues. I was there.
Smoking cigarettes, unprotected sex and dating married women sometimes works OK for a while too.....doesn't make it a good idea.
OF
LOL, yes and all those things can result in death, I will only be out of a $100 already defective cart. I am not disagreeing with you but I am a "lets find out for myself" kind of person so allow me my folly.
I look at it this way, I went through at least 10 5 packs of omicron carts last year, if I buy 5 Cera oil carts in a year it is a wash for me. I realize most people are not going to think this way, that is why I will do the dirty work and see if a home sonic cleaner intended for CDs, eyeglasses, and jewelry is good or bad for these cores. Off to research commercial sonic cleaners to see what specs they run at to compare to the home models.
OF
Well-Known Member
Understood. My concern is, of course, that folks will start routinely doing this for the best of all reasons, "I read it on the web".
Just to set the record straight, I contacted Zeki. He's being misquoted here. Here's what he said to me:
"I always tell people who ask me whether they should clean their core or not before sending it in, that we use an Ultra Sonic cleaner when doing rebuilds. If they happen to have one they can use it before sending it in.
I don't know if I've said to use it on the regular for normal cleaning, as 1. I always suggest a Dry Clean (20/20 burn) instead of a liquid cleaning. 2. I only mention it in regards to our process before rebuilding."
Notice this is for cleaning before sending it in for a rebuild. Very important point. The heater is going to be scrapped in the rebuild anyway. He does not recommend it for units you expect to return to service. Nor do I. Nor anyone I know 'in the know'.
Good luck with it, I'd clean it up and send it in for a rebuild myself if asked.....but nobody did, so....
OF
I fully understand OF and one of the reasons I said I would try it and report back.
So there are some serious differences in a home sonic cleaner and a commercial one, both produce sonic waves in the 42KHz but a commercial unit does it with 200watts up to 600watts compared to most home units being 35watts. Will this make a difference? I will find out.
I really don't want to go down the road of he said she said so let's leave Zeki out of this since I am not going to put in print what Zeki said to me which is very different then what he told you.
So since I have a core that needs a complete rebuild I see no harm in experimenting with it before it goes in for service which follows what Is being quoted by Zeki anyhow. Plus this core has been to CA and back twice and has not been fixed I feel it is best if I do find out if I can kill it completely which will only prove your point as to why not to use a sonic cleaner.
Got the glass adapter from vapehead and some O rings to make it work with cera thank you very much you know who.
Works amazingly well with cera. All you need is to replace the the cera o rings with size #113 O rings (1 works fine but replacing both is a tighter fit. or just add 2 of the regular cera o rings in between the existing o rings.) Im loving it so far with the oil cartridge. I tried adding a screen from the dbv wand and using LL but it didnt work and i made a mess.
If you just have an EO cart and no ceramic mouthpiece, the glass adapter is a must have IMO.
If you have LL and/or a ceramic mouthpiece I dont think its necessary especially with something like a hydratube. But if your going to invert it in something and or rest it than the GonG is better than the ceramic MP.
. If yiu do have the ceramic mouthpiece then its a nice accesory but not a must have. I need to get one of those ceramic screens or something similar to try with the LL because i feel like the glass wont get as hot and could be used like a normal mouthpiece? Any suggestions to anyone that has used it with LL.
Also just gonna mention again vapehead.com said they could get mark at vriptech to make more of the adapters if it was a good fit with the cera. I shot them an email saying it was and gave them the info about the o rings needed. So not sure if they are going to start making more but if anyones interested I would just shoot them an email. Its Vapehead.com
Just LL? When i first got mine I tried the LL first, loved it immediately. I just switched from using the pax for a while, and found great results from hitting the cera ina very similar way. Got great results. Then I used the oil core the next day and was even more blown away. But it spoiled me, because the amazing inital results I got with LL pale in comparison to the EO. And it has become very difficult for me to even think about taking the EO core off.
Id also recommend trying to pace yourself in between hits with LL. a single pack will last a little longer that way and if you keep it heated in between hits and keep hitting it over and over/back to back the ceramic mp gets too hot too fast and it becomes difficult to hit even with the silicone thingy. Unless ur using a water pipe or something.
Works amazingly well with cera. All you need is to replace the the cera o rings with size #113 O rings (1 works fine but replacing both is a tighter fit. or just add 2 of the regular cera o rings in between the existing o rings.) Im loving it so far with the oil cartridge. I tried adding a screen from the dbv wand and using LL but it didnt work and i made a mess.
If you just have an EO cart and no ceramic mouthpiece, the glass adapter is a must have IMO.
If you have LL and/or a ceramic mouthpiece I dont think its necessary especially with something like a hydratube. But if your going to invert it in something and or rest it than the GonG is better than the ceramic MP.
. If yiu do have the ceramic mouthpiece then its a nice accesory but not a must have. I need to get one of those ceramic screens or something similar to try with the LL because i feel like the glass wont get as hot and could be used like a normal mouthpiece? Any suggestions to anyone that has used it with LL.
Also just gonna mention again vapehead.com said they could get mark at vriptech to make more of the adapters if it was a good fit with the cera. I shot them an email saying it was and gave them the info about the o rings needed. So not sure if they are going to start making more but if anyones interested I would just shoot them an email. Its Vapehead.com
It's official. Cera is in my hands.
Just LL? When i first got mine I tried the LL first, loved it immediately. I just switched from using the pax for a while, and found great results from hitting the cera ina very similar way. Got great results. Then I used the oil core the next day and was even more blown away. But it spoiled me, because the amazing inital results I got with LL pale in comparison to the EO. And it has become very difficult for me to even think about taking the EO core off.
Id also recommend trying to pace yourself in between hits with LL. a single pack will last a little longer that way and if you keep it heated in between hits and keep hitting it over and over/back to back the ceramic mp gets too hot too fast and it becomes difficult to hit even with the silicone thingy. Unless ur using a water pipe or something.
Last edited:
VapoRoor
DAB-a-DAB I'll dooooo
I'm about to buy a UFO Showerhead bubbler with dewar joint from Jhanpixel, just wondering if Cera will fit 18.8mm?
I dont know if its from using a DART for half a year, but 3 hits from The LL with a "naturally approached inhale" and I am satisfied.
With so much bashing of the LL I expected a longer session & more work. Just the opposite!
Quick. Tasty. Enjoyable. Effective.
I haven't even set sights for the EO core Mud! Just reading about you not wanting to switch back to LL has me laughin'
You are definitely right about pacing in between hits. I'm blown away by the craftsmansip