The Extreme-Q Vaporizer

Liberty

Well-Known Member
what's to stop the second cupped screen from falling off the sandwich as soon as you turn the glass elbow upside down to insert into the top of the cyclone bowl ?

The second screen is being placed into the first screen in the same direction, e.g., take a dixie cup and put a second dixie cup inside the first - same principle here.

I tried the Screen Sandwich (new term of art attributable to Ace?) yesterday. It's good for small amounts when you're vaping solo.
 
Liberty,
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oldiebutgoodie

Apostle, Church of Vaporization
OK whippersnappers :whip: . . . my :2c:

As usual, sticks gives good advice. The Q's flexibility is its greatest strength. There are indeed many variables at work, from the vaporizer to the setup to the material to the user style. The good news is that you can find a method that works just right for you, the bad news is that with all the nuances it usually takes some experimentation to find it (but it's fun trying) . . .

IME there's no gain to using the elbow pack with the bag, if anything it works against you. The cyclone is designed in particular for the bag. The tight mesh elbow screen creates back pressure into the bowl; this is what creates the "cyclone" effect of swirling herb, the more thorough air/material contact provides better extraction. Which fan level works best is a function of the herb characteristics (e.g., density, dryness) and the size of load. Fan 3 will blow thru a smaller load of dry herb; you won't get good circulation and will need to stir several times. But fan 1 can't handle a fully loaded bowl. I usually load .2-.3 and use fan 2, with a couple stirs. At 190C the vapor will be thick, the second bag just moderate, the third bag whispy thin but even so there are still some goodies in there. I might increase the temp on the 2nd & 3rd bags, but I never go above 210C and my abv is always dark brown.

With the whip and the cyclone, allow the bowl to get hot and the herb to thoroughly warm up; I stir at least once before hitting. Some turn the Q on at a high temp just at first to accelerate heating the glass. If the herb is dry (not powdery) and not ground too fine, and the bowl not overloaded, you should get the cyclone effect with the whip, too. (For me, that's .15-2g) Pulling hard or sharp, again depending on the herb and grind, can result in the elbow screen getting clogged. Taking a long slow even pull will give a nice cloud. It's useful to see how variations in technique work. From there one can graduate to the elbow-pack.

About the thickness of the cloud . . . first, of course comparing vapor to smoke is apples-oranges. Smoke will always be more dense, it contains gases and residuals like tars & ash that don't exist in vapor. Water can filter the thicker particles, but a lot if not most still gets into your body and those nasty additives actually affect the high. With combustion you not only get an "all at once" effect, the "all" includes compounds (benzenes) which while adding a slight glue-sniffing lift, are also a detriment to your health. Vaporizing in contrast is only "all at once" if you are a real power hitter using a high temp, and it still won't include the benzene effect. It's more gradual - and it can be controlled for different effect one session to the next. Another consideration is absorption. IIRC even with smoke the absorption of canniboids is <50%. A huge thick cloud that the user cannot pull down deep and hold results in a lot of actives being lost with exhale. There is no "thickest = best" automatic rule for everyone. We're all different. For those having a hard time coming from combustion, I suggest starting at a high temp to approximate the smoking experience and then work down from there. But I think the consensus is that it is much better to start vaporizing as an entirely new experience with a blank slate, avoiding comparisons to combustion, which means starting at lower temps experimenting with technique, learning the vape, then increasing the temp, until you find your own personal sweet spot.

Enjoy the journey of discovery. :myday:
 
With combustion you not only get an "all at once" effect, the "all" includes compounds (benzenes) which while adding a slight glue-sniffing lift, are also a detriment to your health. Vaporizing in contrast is only "all at once" if you are a real power hitter using a high temp, and it still won't include the benzene effect. It's more gradual - and it can be controlled for different effect one session to the next.


Perfect explanation. I've always had trouble explaining the effects of smoking vs. vaporization. In future I'll just refer to your post.

Thanks kingofnull....could you just clarify for me....your screen sandwich method :-

Your using the cupped screens from the elbow joint and not the flat screens that are in the cyclone bowl.

Your first inserting one cupped screen into the glass elbow and filling....(are you packing this screen to the brim ?)...and then you are placing another cupped screen on top of your herb that has already filled the first cupped screen that is already in the glass elbow....are you placing this second cupped screen with the base of the screen down on top of the herb so it packs in more tightly or are you placing this second cupped screen with the screens opening towards your herb.

The "cupped" screen (elbow screen) is inserted into the glass elbow as it would normally be. You can pretty much pack the screen however you want.
I rarely fill the elbow screen all the way, the most I usually fill is about 1/2-3/4 of the way. After filling, I tap the sides of the elbow adapter to get an even but loose pack. Then I insert the second screen - but never enough to compress the herb. I still want some airflow in this scenario.
If I just need a top up hit, I would have a thin layer of ground flowers just covering the bottom of the elbow screen. In this case I would then insert the second elbow screen inside the first, pressing down all the way until there is no space between the two screens "lips". In this scenario I don't want excess airflow. I want to cache the whole load in one or two hits.

Once you have got your screen sandwich together you are then removing the sandwich from the glass elbow and allowing the unit to warm, once up to temp you are then re-inserting the two cupped screen sandwich back into the glass elbow and then filling your bags or pulling on your whip.

Correct. This method works better with the whip/water pipe than with bags. It will work with bags, but you will get dark spots in your bowl as the air path is very narrow.

Sorry to make this more complicated than what it really is...lol....but the thing that I can't get my head around is...if you are doing as I have wrote above and using the glass elbow and cupped screens...and not placing the cupped screen sandwich into the cyclone bowl what's to stop the second cupped screen from falling off the sandwich as soon as you turn the glass elbow upside down to insert into the top of the cyclone bowl ?

The screens are not placed into the Cyclone bowl. They are replaced together into the elbow. It should be tight enough that both screens will fit snugly without falling out. If you find them falling out then try the other elbow, one of mine fits tighter than the other.

It's okay, I've been having trouble explaining it myself. I've responded in -line to try to make it easier.
 
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Liberty

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OK whippersnappers :whip: . . . my :2c:

I never go above 210C and my abv is always dark brown.

Is this true only when using the cyclone bowl and bags? Or, is it true with elbow packs as well?

With the whip and the cyclone, allow the bowl to get hot and the herb to thoroughly warm up; I stir at least once before hitting. Some turn the Q on at a high temp just at first to accelerate heating the glass. If the herb is dry (not powdery) and not ground too fine, and the bowl not overloaded, you should get the cyclone effect with the whip, too. (For me, that's .15-2g) Pulling hard or sharp, again depending on the herb and grind, can result in the elbow screen getting clogged. Taking a long slow even pull will give a nice cloud. It's useful to see how variations in technique work. From there one can graduate to the elbow-pack.

Will you describe your elbow pack routine? Thanks.

There is no "thickest = best" automatic rule for everyone. We're all different. For those having a hard time coming from combustion, I suggest starting at a high temp to approximate the smoking experience and then work down from there. But I think the consensus is that it is much better to start vaporizing as an entirely new experience with a blank slate, avoiding comparisons to combustion, which means starting at lower temps experimenting with technique, learning the vape, then increasing the temp, until you find your own personal sweet spot.

Are there others who enjoy/prefer vaping at one high temp (e.g., 215-220 C) from the beginning until their bowls are cashed as compared with starting at a lower temp (e.g., 185 C) and increasing the temperature (e.g., up to 220 C) as the hits become lighter?

oldiebutgoodie: great post. Thanks.
 
Liberty,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
Are there others who enjoy/prefer vaping at one high temp (e.g., 215-220 C) from the beginning until their bowls are cashed as compared with starting at a lower temp (e.g., 185 C) and increasing the temperature (e.g., up to 220 C) as the hits become lighter?
I almost always just pack an elbow for vaporbonging at 215 or 220 and I never stir. I found this to be my preferred method after trying many different temps and loading/usage methods.

OBG is dead on as always in that finding your preferred method (the journey) is at least half the fun.
:peace:
 
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Liberty

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OBG is dead on as always in that finding your preferred method (the journey) is at least half the fun.
:peace:

Yes. Double edged sword (fun to have new tool; not fun to go through more material) - I've found that a new tool means a temporary increase in tolerance.
 
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harmudge

Active Member
You know what...you guy's rock...you guy's are really helping me out trying to get this vaping sorted.

The reason I ask all these questions is, as I have mentioned in this thread previously I can only buy a single deal a week and that amounts to about 1.5-2.0g...because of this limit I really need to get the art of vaping with the Q nailed as I don't really want to go back to combusting as the Mrs would kill me after spending all those pounds on the Q and not using it...so I really appreciate all this help...:clap:
 

Liberty

Well-Known Member
I almost always just pack an elbow for vaporbonging at 215 or 220 and I never stir. I found this to be my preferred method after trying many different temps and loading/usage methods.
:peace:

When you use this method, do you know how much material you pack in the elbow?
 
Liberty,

oldiebutgoodie

Apostle, Church of Vaporization
Is this true only when using the cyclone bowl and bags? Or, is it true with elbow packs as well?

Anything over 210C is uncomfortably hot/harsh for me, even with water. If I had a good glass piece that could also accommodate ice, possibly 10C higher. That's with mids; top shelf I use lower temp. I still get all the actives; I just take more hits than a power hitter.

Will you describe your elbow pack routine? Thanks.

My routine is probably fairly common. ~.2g packed just enough to not fall out. A short whip helps mitigate the pack's added drag. GonG connection to my bubbler. Temp 200C. A little stir once or twice. But I didn't use the elbow pack a lot; the cyclone with a couple more hits gets me to the same place w/o the extra work, and besides, I like to savor. (Btw, I don't use the Q at all any longer with the whip, only the bag.)

Are there others who enjoy/prefer vaping at one high temp (e.g., 215-220 C) from the beginning until their bowls are cashed as compared with starting at a lower temp (e.g., 185 C) and increasing the temperature (e.g., up to 220 C) as the hits become lighter?

Many do it one way, many the other. As there are yet others vaping @170C, which is where Arizer says the CBD's start moving. I've observed that power hitters who can do an elbow pack in ~2 hits will typically use a somewhat higher temp; no point in changing it with that quick a session. Whereas the start-low-then-increase applies more to using the cyclone, and of course the bag. Keeping in mind, once again, that the actual vapor temp you get at a given setting will not be the same as what I get.
 

Liberty

Well-Known Member
I've observed that power hitters who can do an elbow pack in ~2 hits will typically use a somewhat higher temp; no point in changing it with that quick a session. Whereas the start-low-then-increase applies more to using the cyclone, and of course the bag. Keeping in mind, once again, that the actual vapor temp you get at a given setting will not be the same as what I get.

Thanks - very helpful.

Another question: when using the cyclone bowl, do people let the cyclone bowl sit on the Extreme in between hits, or, do they remove their cyclone bowls to avoid cooking the material between hits?

mod note: Back-to-back posts, merged. Please use the Edit button, thanks.
 
Liberty,
Always let it sit. The EQ is a passive convection vaporizer when the fan is not engaged. I've found minimal to no browning of herb that's been left to sit.

If you remove it between hits it'll take forever to finish a session due to heating times.
 

Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
First of, Obg! Superb post. Just what the doctor ordered for the newest blood here.

Secondly, in reference to the elbow sandwich.. I'be also done this and it works pretty well for me. I've tried it how you say, but also with elbow packing the second lower elbow screen with herb.. and have even done it with 3 elbow screens! Was nice. Though you have to have a rotational system so you minimize overcooking of one particular elbow.

Also, tried somemore whips with my new tubing and have falling deeply in love with whipping that s#it
Couple of weeks and I'll get some pics of my set up.
8weeks or so into vapin about £600 in and I've accumulated an array of items :)
 
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Tweak

T\/\/34|<
I cut about 18" at a time for my EQ. This is the perfect length for my vaporbonging

I have found this to be my best length too. 1 foot is too short and there is a chance of pulling bong/vaporizer over, 3 feet is just too long adding drag and more surface area.

8weeks or so into vapin about £600 in and I've accumulated an array of items :)

Have you bought any glass yet?

If not I'd suggest you stay as far away from the Glass section, its a trap. :science:
 
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Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
Ive a blackleaf smoke shower micro circ inline winging its way to me as we speak.
I know I probably overpaid but like ive said before.. i see i buy i stop looking!
Im excited for it to arrive.
 
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Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
My bad! :(
I don't know where I pulled that from heehe

I'm gonna try me the 18" whip tomorrow. I think I just cut my tygon to about the three foot.. maybe 2 and 1/2
 
Kommyknocker,
Hey I have an arizer extreme q and I think that the balloon gets you higher and is more efficient. I was wondering if anyone knew differently
 
Kushington III,

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Whatever works for you. Nobody knows differently, although some might disagree with you.
 
pakalolo,

Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
To stir my elbows I have an oversized screen, like from the keif collection portion of a grinder, this I poked a hole around about the middle. I shaped a paperclip with a 1/8" right angle. I have my half spent elbow pack removed from the Extreme and turned upside down, I place the screen on top with the hole directly above, insert paperclip, flip everthing over and agitate the herb. The reason I flip it is to minimize particle matter falling through and tainting my eventual elbow reclaim.
The big grinder screen was available at my LHS for about £1.50. The edges can be somewhat sharp and jaggy so I turned the edges over on themselves. Hope this helps someone out.
:)
 
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To stir my elbows I have an oversized screen, like from the keif collection portion of a grinder, this I poked a hole around about the middle. I shaped a paperclip with a 1/8" right angle. I have my half spent elbow pack removed from the Extreme and turned upside down, I place the screen on top with the hole directly above, insert paperclip, flip everthing over and agitate the herb. The reason I flip it is to minimize particle matter falling through and tainting my eventual elbow reclaim.
The big grinder screen was available at my LHS for about £1.50. The edges can be somewhat sharp and jaggy so I turned the edges over on themselves. Hope this helps someone out.
:)
I like this.
 
kingofnull,

max

Out to lunch
It only gets you higher because you're getting more vapor. You will get a constant temp supplied to the bowl, using bag fill. That's the only edge in efficiency, and it's not a big difference. If you consider that reclaiming residue from the glass and whip is easier than doing the same with bags, I'd say whip use could get an edge in efficiency in that respect.
 
max,

Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
I over indulged when I first got my Extreme and shot through sooo much herb! Arizer killed my tolerance!! Lol
I am kommyknockers' tolerance.. hear me roar!
If I had to pick one that got me higher? I'd say vapor bonging as I can destroy n elbow in near enough one rip. Far too subjective a subject, though fun to discuss.
 
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Liberty

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It only gets you higher because you're getting more vapor. You will get a constant temp supplied to the bowl, using bag fill. That's the only edge in efficiency, and it's not a big difference. If you consider that reclaiming residue from the glass and whip is easier than doing the same with bags, I'd say whip use could get an edge in efficiency in that respect.
Is your preference the Cyclone Bowl of the Elbow-pack method?
 
Liberty,
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