kushcabbage
vapor nerd
horray! Glad they took care of that for you
Discontinued Pax Vaporizer by Ploom
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Espo
Well-Known Member
If you pack it in tight (I use a tool) it works well. If its loose it doesn't work as good. Basically I fill the whole oven up (loose) and then pack it down which makes it about half full. Works for me!
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
This really belongs in you pax vs. mflb thread, your other two posts at at least were helping describe the thermodynamics to a member who asked for help, but what is this? "Wrong tool?" "ahead of flavor and cost?" did you buy a Pax all of a sudden? We should at least get a chance to defend the device we know and have lived with.
Most people who are drawn to the Pax have already been down the mflb road and agree that, as willie so elegantly put it, the mflb lacks balls.
If 0.3g lasts you three days, 72 hours, with any vape, then you either are unusually sensitive to thc or don't get anywhere near as medicated as most people do. Either way, you're an unusual case and your making very broad-sweeping generalizations.
For most Pax users, to reach the same medicated level in the mflb would just be impractical and probably use more flower. The taste point is moot, the Pax is delicious at first and tapers to abv taste just like the mflb.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
Jesus guys this thread is going in circles... bonus points for those who were here the first time I posted this!
Since this is the order I originally posted it, this is the largest bowl I packed:
"points to the Pax having a hard draw and requiring a cigar like pull. That would give me a headache. Also I feel like you have be super quick with conduction based vapes as to not waste vapour?"
I know it sounds like a downside but the thing with the Pax is it's not really convection. It's a new kind of vaporizer, a super-effecient but purely conduction vaporizer. Excess airflow is just not needed.
You can just pack it and pack it and it will reward you with thick voluptuous vapor and fantastic initial taste. You draw slow on the Pax because that's what gives you more intense flavor and thicker vapor.
It actually holds much more than I had first estimated, but this is pretty much the max (the heater door bulges out a millimeter or so)
(Also a little free advertising for a good doc'
I packed it in and added what was left on the card:
(Use your grinder tool to make it nice and pretty
Draw is still just fine, it draws like a perfectly rolled joint or blunt. Too much flow means your lungs get too much hot dry air imo...
This was all way back in the beginning when I was explaining to new users that the key to the Pax is to just keep packing it the hell in there! But look, it doesn't matter how much you load, just make sure it's pressed up against the bottom (of course it gets hot, it's metal!)
Guys it's not difficult to hit, it's just a slow draw. As long as you don't inhale as max speed it draws fine even with 0.68g packed...
Here's the abv from that:
Also, as promised, here's my technique for small loads. You'll see you really get your finger in there so make sure your hands as clean
Now really pack it down like a pancake!
The first few hits you'll swear you were hitting a full bowl! I think it's cashed on medium after after 5-6 hits but it's always producing and never combusting so if you're short on supply you can probably keep on going and/or vape your abv...
Here's the abv from 0.1g:
In reality it's all even brown like the edges but the camera seems to add green to the middle for some reason...
See that?? 0.1g weighed out and everything!
I remember that bowl actually, it surprised me with how much flavor you got in the first couple hits, it tasted just like the first hits on a fat bowl with the herb packed flat like that. Of course you only get 4-6 hits until the vapor gets thin but the Pax will definitely get you satisfied with 0.1g! (if you normally get satisfied with that much
at that time I did, probably not so much anymore 
)
The Pax vs LB thread will get its contribution in due time.
Based on posts here and personal experience, I know that I am not at all unusual in terms of consumption or sensitivity. I do recognize that some people use a lot more, have high tolerance, and need it more quickly. In fact, I think I might have mentioned that.
I don't think I was generalizing at all. You clearly assume I haven't tried the Pax but you're wrong. Way wrong. Everything I said about consumption and taste is based on my own experience with the Pax and direct comparisons with my LB. The load sizes I posted were actual measurements, not guesses or estimates. The taste does drop off much more rapidly in the Pax, I've done the comparisons. It does cook the load when you aren't drawing. Etc.
My Pax:
jambandphan03
in flavor country
cool, thanks for re-posting that loading info Joe, I have to admit I started reading this thread about pg. 70-something, so probably missed a bunch of key points. Might go back to read the rest now that I actually have one.
Going to test out the small pressed load now
Also, as I have experienced so far, on a fully packed load, the entire bottom of the load gets toasted, so it does heat from the bottom and the sides. I usually end up trying to flip my load over, rather than stir, if I can keep it from breaking apart. The green on top gets flipped over, and the bottom is usually pretty dark toasted. Might try to get a photo of it half way one of these times. It's nice when the herb stays "bricked" so I can just flip it, but most of the time, it falls loose, so I end up trying to stir the green down under the brown. I can usually get 3-4 stirs and still get hits on a fully packed load.
One thing I have not done yet is pay attention to hit count or battery time because most of my use has been at home, getting to know how it works, so when I do go out with it, I am not fumbling around trying to figure it out, and it's just so darn satisfying to vape with IMO. I also use it with the ion when at home, so I imagine that changes the hit count completely when I am milking up the chamber, what is that 3-4-5 hits all at once? I am still very impressed and pleased with the pax.
**Just tried the small load on high using my ion, got several hits before I had to open it up and stir, then I was able to get quite a few more hits, stir, get a couple more, stir, couple more...down to almost no vapor. I am very satisfied with the level of medicating on that small load, and it felt like about the same amount of hits I would get before flipping/stirring it on a full load. Good timing as I have blown through quite a bit of our stash over the last couple of weeks. Need to start cutting back a bit.
Going to test out the small pressed load now
Also, as I have experienced so far, on a fully packed load, the entire bottom of the load gets toasted, so it does heat from the bottom and the sides. I usually end up trying to flip my load over, rather than stir, if I can keep it from breaking apart. The green on top gets flipped over, and the bottom is usually pretty dark toasted. Might try to get a photo of it half way one of these times. It's nice when the herb stays "bricked" so I can just flip it, but most of the time, it falls loose, so I end up trying to stir the green down under the brown. I can usually get 3-4 stirs and still get hits on a fully packed load.
One thing I have not done yet is pay attention to hit count or battery time because most of my use has been at home, getting to know how it works, so when I do go out with it, I am not fumbling around trying to figure it out, and it's just so darn satisfying to vape with IMO. I also use it with the ion when at home, so I imagine that changes the hit count completely when I am milking up the chamber, what is that 3-4-5 hits all at once? I am still very impressed and pleased with the pax.
**Just tried the small load on high using my ion, got several hits before I had to open it up and stir, then I was able to get quite a few more hits, stir, get a couple more, stir, couple more...down to almost no vapor. I am very satisfied with the level of medicating on that small load, and it felt like about the same amount of hits I would get before flipping/stirring it on a full load. Good timing as I have blown through quite a bit of our stash over the last couple of weeks. Need to start cutting back a bit.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
Well that was quite the ace up your sleeve! But I think they are pretty comparable with such a small load, the time you aren't drawing is practically nothing with 0.1g. With the Pax you can finish it all on high in under a minute where the mflb might take a bit longer but 5-10 minutes after the sesh I feel almost exactly the same. Maybe the difference is that you space your session out so it works better with the quick heating/cooling of the mflb? Did you try using the Pax with minimal time in-between slow-draw hits?
There's no question that the way you approach your session makes a big difference. I think you're right, the near-instant on/off of the LB is perhaps the biggest reason why the Pax flavour drops off faster.
I've done both .1g alone in the oven, and .1g supplemented with .2g of ABV. (Not Pax ABV, that stuff is really done so I use Extreme ABV, it's not been over 190°C.) I use low heat (yellow) and do 8 micropuffs a second apart, wait a minute or so and repeat, then shut it off and wait for the effects to catch up. Probably I'll do that again in 15-30 minutes, but it might be as long as an hour. With .1g alone the first session is tasty, the second not so much, and the third is starting to taste nasty. Three is all I'll get from that .1g in the Pax. With the LB I'll do three hits of a five second warmup followed by eight microhits spaced a second apart, then the same waiting routine. I can do this five or six times compared to the Pax's three.
These descriptions might sound a bit OCD but I've developed a standard method to make comparison easier and more valid.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
I would suggest trying medium or high from the beginning, you can draw before it turns green to get that yellow-level hit but it will heat up and get those higher-temp cannabionoids pretty quickly (before the flavor suffers). I think the mflb heats up to at least Pax-medium if not Pax-high, I remember being able to combust if I drew too slow so I think the fast application of high heat is really what gives you the full spectrum.
But I do agree, the Pax tastes best when packed with the amount you want to use in a single session.
mod note: Back-to-back posts, merged. Please use the Edit button, thanks.
paytonpenn
Level 30 Nature/Healer
The one that was up for sale got sold within 24 hours. That's crazy.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
We're all enjoying them too much to think about selling it!
Well something went wrong there, somehow it dropped Joe's second post when I merged them. He was basically amazed that anyone would look for a used Pax, or something. Sorry, Joe... but you shoulda used the Edit button.
I've done that. I don't like the higher temperatures.
The LB heats up well beyond Pax temperatures if you keep the battery in contact long enough without drawing. With my normal technique using a battery, I think the LB is reaching approximately Pax yellow. That's a guess, I have no way of knowing.
It's not crazy, it's supply and demand. If you think that's crazy, there's a Pax for sale on eBay that's just reached $282 and has a day and 20 hours to run in the auction.
I've done that. I don't like the higher temperatures.
The LB heats up well beyond Pax temperatures if you keep the battery in contact long enough without drawing. With my normal technique using a battery, I think the LB is reaching approximately Pax yellow. That's a guess, I have no way of knowing.
It's not crazy, it's supply and demand. If you think that's crazy, there's a Pax for sale on eBay that's just reached $282 and has a day and 20 hours to run in the auction.
jambandphan03
in flavor country
A lot of people are still waiting for their pax to be shipped to them as well, they have been on back order. Right now it looks like you either have to be lucky and find someone who bought one and just didn't like it to get a used one, or have to buy it new. I've barely had mine for over a week now.
al bundy
Vaporist
ebay $282 so far and 1 day 19 hours remaining
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAX-By-Ploo...945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7992d089
and how about If the oven cover was longer/deeper so it goes further into the oven to take up the space for smaller loads?
willieR
Been here since 2009
Don't see why not. You can vape any vegetation that contains oils.
EDIT: Filling the trench only a bit works as advertised. I put one little grinder's worth in the oven, same amount that I would put in a trench in the MFLB. The Pax on medium toasts it in just a couple three inhales. I liked it.
Now I added two grinder loads and am trying one big inhale, then shut it down. I'm taking the little afterburner hit, btw. This puts out one seriously big hit, then I shut off. So far, so good. We'll see how it lasts and tastes. It certainly puts a toast on the herbs, just like an oven!
Edit Edit: The oven cools down more quickly than I thought. Not instant off, but insulation seems minimal. This is more good news.
I'm not nearly minding the toasting as much as I thought I would.
EDIT: Filling the trench only a bit works as advertised. I put one little grinder's worth in the oven, same amount that I would put in a trench in the MFLB. The Pax on medium toasts it in just a couple three inhales. I liked it.
Now I added two grinder loads and am trying one big inhale, then shut it down. I'm taking the little afterburner hit, btw. This puts out one seriously big hit, then I shut off. So far, so good. We'll see how it lasts and tastes. It certainly puts a toast on the herbs, just like an oven!
Edit Edit: The oven cools down more quickly than I thought. Not instant off, but insulation seems minimal. This is more good news.
I'm not nearly minding the toasting as much as I thought I would.
MrNorml
Well-Known Member
Both, but Solo has breakable glass but Pax has spillable parts. If either happens the thing is of no use at all until replacement parts arive (get and carry spares!). Solo does require pressing more than 1 button simultaneously to turn on. Pax requires two hands to change temps. While Pax may be revolutionary, Solo is not unfriendly in the least, and it seems to have really been well received. Except that easily breakable glass stem ... well, if it's a problem it's a major one and it is not as difficult to get it knocked over and broken as one might think. I'm guessing I'm on my 4th stems since 12/11 due to 'user error' but broken regardless. Screens are not a major deal at all - mine last months with cleanings over gas stove no biggie... Small screen, sharpie, voila! done. Not everyone finds a need for them.
JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
Oh ok I was wondering what happened, I like to keep separate thoughts separate so very occasionally I'll do a back to back on an unrelated topic. It's ok though, I just reposted when I saw that it didn't take:
I originally said I would be amazed if anyone sold their Pax, I am not at all surprised for people looking for a cheap Pax (that would be a hell of a hook up!)
Oh ok, I think that has got to be why we don't see eye to eye on the Pax. I usually try to get the most effect out of my material, so I used to vape pretty dark in the mflb and that's probably why I like medium (sometimes high) for the Pax. To each their own!
That's what I find, you notice the diminished taste but it's no worse than the last half of a fresh bowl
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
That's what I find, you notice the diminished taste but it's no worse than the last half of a fresh bowl
I used to smoke out of a water pipe that I did not clean for a month or more at a time. I only cleaned it and changed the water once the down stem got so dirty that it clogged up. Any form of vaporizing taste better to me than that ever would... so it is all an improvement form my previous habits.
druminfected
Well-Known Member
dammit, yet another vape i might have to buy! looks at my pockets with no cash. 
jambandphan03
in flavor country
I think I have been becoming so much more aware of taste/smell since I started vaping and not smoking, so much so, it's almost annoying. Over all, I have become more anal about a lot of stuff, things being clean in particular... I wonder if these behaviors go hand in hand. I have fine tuned my cannabis intake and it's spilling over into other areas of my life. Most of my (6) housemates still smoke, and are a bit sloppy, compared to me. I have been becoming so much more aware of it recently to the point I have to check myself because I might be turning into the house nag. Anyway...trailing off into a vaped ramble... might be one of the reasons I do like the pax. I must keep it clean 
2clicker
Observer
that is what i was thinking. or a spacer that can be inserted when using small loads, and taken out when packing it full.
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