Venty by Storz & Bickel

Considering changes on the Venty, I've recognized a difference in the oven's housing from those official pics as well as those, which eg @philiegram lately uploaded of his bricked unit.

don't your latest versions also look like this?

btw, again thank you philliegram for providing these pics and your research in general. What kinda 'blade' did you manage to squeeze in that tiny slot next to the orange covers, I wonder.

Also, how is the lower part (with the second small board) sealed off from the oven? Is there an o-ring where the cable to the oven goes though?
My bricked venty and my replacement one do not have the ridges. Seems like they just optimized the use of material here, as the outside does not have an effect on the heating itself? This is just my guess…

I just used a cutter knife, an scalpel would be even better (hope it doesn‘t break) to lever out the orange plugs. Some ifixit kits also have some plastik spatulas for this purpose, but I didn’t try them. Please be sure you try it from the inside rounded edge of the orange plug! Thus is where they snap in the black part of the body.

The oven and the whole heater has a small board that connects several parts of the oven: temp fuse, temp sensor, pressure sensor, heating „wire“. There is no o-ring to seal these components or their airpaths or cables from the oven, rather a specifically cut and molded rubber-mat where everything fits perfecly through. This rubber mat is on the black peek plasic housing of the oven. let me know if you want to see it in detail!
 
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Dr. G

Old Resident
My bricked venty and my replacement one do not have the ridges. Seems like they just optimized the use of material here, as the outside does not have an effect on the heating itself? This is just my guess…

I just used a cutter knife, an scalpel would be even better (hope it doesn‘t break) to lever out the orange plugs. Some ifixit kits also have some plastik spatulas for this purpose, but I didn’t try them. Please be sure you try it from the inside rounded edge of the orange plug! Thus is where they snap in the black part of the body.

The oven and the whole heater has a small board that connects several parts of the oven: temp fuse, temp sensor, pressure sensor, heating „wire“. There is no o-ring to seal these components or their airpaths or cables from the oven, rather a specifically cut and molded rubber-mat where everything fits perfecly through. This rubber mat is on the black peek plasic housing of the oven. let me know if you want to see it in detail!
Please show us in detail...I love this research. Please and thank you.

PS I just came back from the UPS store and shipped my second Venty to Oakland, California HQ...it will not get there until next Thursday in January....thank God I have other vapes and my Volcano.
 

sadf

Well-Known Member
I just ordered a tm2 with all the stuff to go with it but I am having doubts... still feeling the same after having it a bit longer?

Anyone else with a tm2 wanna try and talk me out of it and Into a venty before vgoodz ships it out to me?..
I dont need to finish a bowl in one-two hits which ppl seem to do on the tm2 a lot. I'd rather sip it which also seems doable on tm2 but ppl don't mention it much and not sure if I like the dial for the temp control..
I jave not used either one yet and am just getting into vaping... I would prefer flavor and longevity over a quick hit.. does tm2 do it with more flavor or is venty the new king?

I’m not going to try talk you into or out of anything, but as someone who recently obtained a TM2, well, now I’m in the Venty thread for a reason.

My primary device in recent years has been a Mighty, which I appreciate for its elegant simplicity, consistency, and durability. What primarily made me seek out an alternative and buy a TM2 was how slow the Mighty is to reach temperature and fully vape a bowl; I prefer to step outside and the Mighty’s slowness is irritating when it’s cold out or just when I don’t want to spend several minutes on a bowl.

The one thing I love about the TM2 is that it reaches temperature in about five seconds and can kill a bowl in one or two pulls. Aside from that, I don’t like the stem system, which is fiddly and annoying, picky about flower grind, tamp, and dryness, and you need to tip the stem upright and give it a little tap to ensure no bits of flower will fall into the TM2 heater screen. Temperature regulation is nowhere near as precise or consistent as the Mighty and with fine grinds it’s easy to combust if you’re trying to fully extract a bowl. The device is also too fragile and fiddly to be treated like a true portable, and for best performance you really need a better aftermarket stem or run it through a bong.

If the Venty didn’t exist I would just cope with the TM2 downsides because that insanely fast heating time is seriously a game changer coming from a Mighty for me and the downsides of the device are more annoyances than serious problems. But the Venty does exist, and sounds like it’s probably a better portable device for use dry if it really can finish a bowl in a few long pulls. I’ll probably get one.
 

JoeMama

Well-Known Member
What happened was that the top screen, the one sitting on the cooling unit, just fell off on the lower one (the bottom of the oven),
How... How does that screen on the CU even come loose enough to do this?! Did you mean you hadn't installed it properly? It's kind of counterintuitive to me how it IS installed... it goes in with it's concavity (bulge) facing outward, and then pressed systematically into place. The screen then looks "dimpled" as its center is concaved but the outer edges remain convexed. To get it out is a pain in the ass, too.
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
After about a week with the venty; I think it's a great portable. It reminds me of an arizer solo on steroids due to battery life, size, and drink style shape. Of course the airflow, extraction, form and general function are all vastly superior. I too find it disappointing connected to a water pipe, figured it was an issue with my rigged up adapter but given the above feedback im not convinced.

As a portable, I have to echo alot of the positives:
-Smooth dry hits
-Adjustable flow
-Battery life
-Speed to heat
-Form, great for portability and fits in hand well
-Flavor, surprisingly good at low temps
-Easy to clean so far

Negatives:
-Cost
-Poor water pipe performance
-Easy to tip over
-Turbo modes timeout and it goes to old temp
-Bluetooth apps absent (but I dont adjust it often and web app worked perfectly)

It has changed is how I vape, I dont chase a full extraction. You can keep vaping at high temps but usually I rather get a new bowl. It is working excellent at the task at hand - portable device.
 
With help from Philiegram's photos, I've made some "back of the napkin" models for the convective heat transfer for the Venty vs Mighty.

Interestingly, the Mighty is actually more efficient than the Venty at convection. See:


In this model, a Mighty-like heat exchanger (black) is compared to the Venty (red) across volumetric flow rate from 0.1L/s to 0.5L/s. The Venty's relatively short convection channels mean that at high volumetric flow, the ratio of convection to conduction (also known as the Nussalt number) does not outscale mass flow and the energy required to heat the air fully. However, in practice, the Mighty has a weak heating element, so flower is wasted waiting for the exchanger to reach temperature. The Nussalt number for the Venty is about 4 (4:1 convective vs conductive heat transfer) whereas the Mighty is around 30. They sort-of balance out because the Mighty has far less exposed surface area for convection, however, at higher flow rates, the Mighty's Nussalt number is much larger due to turbulent currents from the spiral channel design. In general, most vapes that advertise a hybrid design are mostly conduction, objectively. It's very difficult to design a session vape that doesn't overheat, is inexpensive, and actually features majority convection. The TM2 is an exception, but from what I understand you can't keep it at temperature for long - it's really a challenge to keep the heat in the heat exchanger and not burn the shit out of the user.

On top of this, more than 70W is lost due to convection, even more considering conduction. This means the exchanger temperature rapidly drops as stored energy is not replenished. This is somewhat the case with the Venty, despite the advertised 130W output. This is in part due to the fact that most resistive heaters have a positive temperature coefficient which means they dissipate less energy as they heat up. But more importantly power scales with voltage squared and most LiPo batteries only put out 4.2V at maximum state of charge.

Looking at the Venty's battery discharge curve, at half charge and 12.5A, each cell contributes ~3.5V. Working backwards from 130W @ 4.2V, we have a heater resistance of 0.55 Ohms (very close to the actual measurement of 0.6 Ohms). This means at at half charge the output is 90W and less as the batteries drain. The temp co for Nichrome is pretty small, about a 3% impact at 200C.

This is also why pass-through isn't supported. With a resistance of 0.55 Ohms and a minimum USB-C voltage of 5V there would be almost 10A draw which is way more than USB-C supports. It's technically possible to power pass-through with a buck converter but that adds complexity and the design isn't trivial.

The construction of the heat exchanger is likely aluminum, but this introduces a problem. The heating element (I think Nichrome) is wrapped around the exchanger, and there will be the full voltage drop of the batteries across the coil. If there is no insulation then the coil just shorts. I think they are hardcoat anodizing the exchanger for this purpose (also, a thin oxide layer builds on the Nichrome). The heating wire is crimped onto an adapter that is then soldered to the rigid flex PCB.

The same PCB houses some readout circuitry for the temperature sensor (thermistor) which is fed through a stainless tube close to the top of the heat exchanger.


The PCB also has a differential pressure sensor which measures the difference between ambient pressure and the pressure inside the PEEK shroud for the heat exchanger. It's quite expensive, about $20 at 1000qty. There is some delay between starting a draw and feedback due to temperature drop, but it seems like added complexity for little benefit as there is already a feedback loop controlling temperature.

The heater control is pretty standard - a series of P-channel MOSFETs switching on the high side. There are two FETs in the power path because you need to control power to the heater and also block charge and discharge currents. For this purpose, there's also an additional FET in series with the charger as a FET can only control power in one direction. A polyfuse protects from over-current and there's a shunt resistor for charge current feedback. Because the heater is effectively an air core inductor, they also need some flyback protection in the form of a diode.

The airpath is isolated through a silicone gasket, although that's not really a priority when it comes to designing a safe vape. Printed circuit board assemblies, when properly cleaned, do not appreciably offgas at room temperature. In fact, silicone outgasses significantly more at temperature (not all silicone is the same, too). Silicone is even shown to decompose into formaldehyde among other refractories and this decomposition is very temperature dependent. There aren't many (inexpensive) alternatives, so then it's prudent that the silicone temperature is limited in design.

S&B sticks to the mighty in the choice of materials: PEEK as a high temperature thermoplastic, a polycarbonate/PET blend (commodity plastic) for the outer casing, an aluminum heat exchanger (not 100% confirmed but likely), and silicone gaskets. I'd say that's better than 99% of vapes on the market. The electronics seem relatively well engineered, although there is zero technical reason why a removable battery wouldn't be possible. DIY battery refurbishment is also definitely possible - there are inexpensive spot welders available and it would even be possible to mod in replaceable batteries. For such an expensive device it's frustrating that it's essentially designed to fail once the batteries reach their lifespan. To me, the device isn't very cost optimized either.
 
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RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
-Turbo modes timeout and it goes to old temp
-Bluetooth apps absent (but I dont adjust it often and web app worked perfectly)

Yes, I hope they listen to our feedback on updating the firmware, so the Venty will AT LEAST, vibrate after the 90 second boosts! But folks will have to take two seconds to actually send their support dept., an email….

The free Bluefy app works, if you use Apple devices.

As far as tipping over… I TIP OVER occasionally, but hey, that’s ON ME! :)
 

tgvp

Well-Known Member
How... How does that screen on the CU even come loose enough to do this?! Did you mean you hadn't installed it properly?
No idea, I hadn't removed it yet, just opened the CU to check how it was made and the screen felt after 6 or 7 bowls. So I had to put it back and indeed, it's not easy to fit it right, that one is already quite deformed. But now it stays on
 
tgvp,
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DadaBoo

B2, Mighty+, M/Omni, Volcano Hybrid, TM2, Anvil
I’m not going to try talk you into or out of anything, but as someone who recently obtained a TM2, well, now I’m in the Venty thread for a reason.

My primary device in recent years has been a Mighty, which I appreciate for its elegant simplicity, consistency, and durability. What primarily made me seek out an alternative and buy a TM2 was how slow the Mighty is to reach temperature and fully vape a bowl; I prefer to step outside and the Mighty’s slowness is irritating when it’s cold out or just when I don’t want to spend several minutes on a bowl.

The one thing I love about the TM2 is that it reaches temperature in about five seconds and can kill a bowl in one or two pulls. Aside from that, I don’t like the stem system, which is fiddly and annoying, picky about flower grind, tamp, and dryness, and you need to tip the stem upright and give it a little tap to ensure no bits of flower will fall into the TM2 heater screen. Temperature regulation is nowhere near as precise or consistent as the Mighty and with fine grinds it’s easy to combust if you’re trying to fully extract a bowl. The device is also too fragile and fiddly to be treated like a true portable, and for best performance you really need a better aftermarket stem or run it through a bong.

If the Venty didn’t exist I would just cope with the TM2 downsides because that insanely fast heating time is seriously a game changer coming from a Mighty for me and the downsides of the device are more annoyances than serious problems. But the Venty does exist, and sounds like it’s probably a better portable device for use dry if it really can finish a bowl in a few long pulls. I’ll probably get one.
I've only had the Venty for a few days but my experience with it so far suggests that it will deliver what you are looking for.

Packing lite (medium grind) I can get 3 big hits (10 sec+ inhale) before I am left with 'cleanup' hits. If I let the Venty heat soak for 30ish secs, I get 2 big hits and half a cloud plus cleanup puffs. This is all on airflow setting 3.

I packed (and I mean packed) the Venty last night, so much so that the level 3 airflow felt like a mighty. I let it heat soak on 210c for the full boost time of 90sec (the door bell rang, so it wasn't intentional), when I took my monster hit I exhaled a thick dragon cloud. The most interesting thing to me was, all the time during the inhalation I never felt I was inhaling that much vaper. I thought I had packed it too tight and was getting whispy vapour. It was quite a surprise.

Now bear in mind, my weed is probably shite compared to yours, my definition of a big thick cloud is different to yours and my grind size is always medium with airflow always set to 3 (currently anyway). But there appears to be alot of options with this device to tailor it to what the user wants. It's just a matter of experimenting until you find your jam.

I'll be interested to hear other people's take on tight, tight packs to see if it aligns with mine.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
@djidjendnxjies great post. Efficiency is something that's talked about, but rarely does anyone really dig into it and the various factors at play.

It's probably important to reiterate to anyone reading this post that when you're referring to the convection / conduction ratio (Nusselt number) it's in relation to modeling the heat transferred to the air within the heater (across the boundary) and not "convection and conduction" to the cannabis as is colloquially thrown around on this forum.
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Nice breakdown, but is this pathetic piece of NiCr the only heater ? I wonder if it glows while operating .
 
Abysmal Vapor,

sadf

Well-Known Member
Nice breakdown, but is this pathetic piece of NiCr the only heater ? I wonder if it glows while operating .

Ain't pathetic if it works.

I do get where you're coming from though, the heater and heat exchanger are not impressive looking at all, it all looks a bit cheap and inelegant; if not for the seemingly high cost for the pressure sensor I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the BOM for the Venty is lower than that of the Mighty.

Still seems to work quite well though, at least from early impressions on units with fresh new batteries.
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Ain't pathetic if it works.

I do get where you're coming from though, the heater and heat exchanger are not impressive looking at all, it all looks a bit cheap and inelegant; if not for the seemingly high cost for the pressure sensor I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the BOM for the Venty is lower than that of the Mighty.

Still seems to work quite well though, at least from early impressions on units with fresh new batteries.
Haha , yeah i just expected something more elegant as you say. People gave a lot of shit to other product utilizing such heating materials, but i guess if S&B does it ,it is not much of a health hazard after all .
 

snowdrop7756

Active Member
Haha , yeah i just expected something more elegant as you say. People gave a lot of shit to other product utilizing such heating materials, but i guess if S&B does it ,it is not much of a health hazard after all .
Are there alternatives? You mentioned NiCr, but are we certain that's even what it is? Either way we're talking some sort of metal or clay (ceramic) heating up, unless they invented a entirely new substance I'm not sure where else you could go?
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Are there alternatives? You mentioned NiCr, but are we certain that's even what it is? Either way we're talking some sort of metal or clay (ceramic) heating up, unless they invented a entirely new substance I'm not sure where else you could go?
I am guessing NiCr, because of the resistance shown on at one of the pics. It can be some other element of course ,but it is most likely NiCr with that specs of resistance and gauge. For now this concept reminds me a bit of Vleaf GO which uses a glowing heating element inside a ceramic casing,but i might be way wrong. It also works good ,not critisizing the tech ,just i am a little disappointed to see it ,as I wanted to see some break through in heater technology, i guess it is not this time .
 
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snowdrop7756

Active Member
I am guessing NiCr, because of the resistance shown on at one of the pics. It can be some other element of course ,but it is most likely NiCr with that specs of resistance and gauge. For now this concept reminds me a bit of Vleaf GO which uses a glowing heating element inside a ceramic casing,but i might be way wrong. It also works good ,not critisizing the tech ,just i am a little disappointed to see it ,as I wanted to see some break through in heater technology, i guess it is not this time .
Yeah, honestly I think the breakthrough is more of a breakthrough for Storz then the industry. From a competitive respect they were certainly lacking in heatup times. With that said I don't believe I've seen a coil used in any of the other vaporizer teardowns. Probably helps with the distribution of heat more evenly across the surface of the metal. I will also say there is probably some ingenuity with electronic aspect including airflow sensors and temperature gauges. Their accuracy or rather consistency is bar none IMHO.
 
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imor jones

Well-Known Member
Hi there,
I have my venty since 1,5 weeks now.
And i really enjoy it.
Also bought some titanium capsules now. I also like them. I am using them with mv1 capsule holder 👍
But at least 2 Times the venty was giving me an Error5 Eo5 while heating up. I couldnt find something about the Eo5 in this thread.
Anybody knows what it means?
Thanks
 

DadaBoo

B2, Mighty+, M/Omni, Volcano Hybrid, TM2, Anvil
Hi there,
I have my venty since 1,5 weeks now.
And i really enjoy it.
Also bought some titanium capsules now. I also like them. I am using them with mv1 capsule holder 👍
But at least 2 Times the venty was giving me an Error5 Eo5 while heating up. I couldnt find something about the Eo5 in this thread.
Anybody knows what it means?
Thanks
It means you are accidentally blowing into the device.

Try gently blowing into the Venty and you will see the E05 error pop up.

If you're doing a big exhale before a long draw, just keep the mouth piece away from your mouth until you're ready for the toke.

Don't worry though, it's not defective.
 

imor jones

Well-Known Member
It means you are accidentally blowing into the device.

Try gently blowing into the Venty and you will see the E05 error pop up.

If you're doing a big exhale before a long draw, just keep the mouth piece away from your mouth until you're ready for the toke.

Don't worry though, it's not defective.
Ok, thanks for the info
 
imor jones,
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AndyO

Well-Known Member
I've been surprised by how much I love it too, at the moment it's replaced my Dynavaps as my out-and-about daily driver.

I have the Volcano and Mighty+, and compared to my TM2, Dynavaps and Flowerpot B1 I can kind of take of take or leave them (though I'm excited to receive the Volcano Glacier tube that I've ordered).

But this thing is great. Still doesn't quite pack the punch of the TM2, but that's ok - I like a sipper as well as a ripper, and the airflow on the Venty makes it a great sipper that can get you blasted while out of the house (and doesn't have anything breakable on it, which would be the case with the TM2 mouthpiece if I were to take it out.)

Obviously the compatibility with the existing dosing caps (and the carriers) makes it great for when you're out of the house too, and there's enough creative things you can do with the case cos of the two tags/loops that it has. The blue cylindrical keyring holders goes in the case really well if, like me, 5 dosing caps is enough to do you the day.

The vapes that genuinely changed my life in terms of how I consume weed were the TM2, and the Dynavap Vong + armoured cap through a bubbler - I think the Venty is joining the list, cos it's changed what I can do/how I can vape when out of the house.
 

Thunderbelch

Well-Known Member
Nice, how did you disconnect the battery pack? Just by a pcb 'plug', like it looks eg on the display?
And how are the batteries connected in that pack? Do you have any more pics you could share?
Sorry for not replying sooner, things got a bit busy last year and I'm just catching up now. I think @philiegram's posts show what you needed; the battery sled is attached to the main electronics via 3 screw blocks and the battery sled includes tabs that are spot-welded to the batteries.

While I might consider this a bit of a "shock", we all have portable vapes that use these batteries. But, WTF indeed....
The message is there in case people harvest the batts from dead devices and use them in vapes with replaceable batts. The problem is caused by (mostly ecig vapers) carrying 18650 cells in their pockets without cases, which can lead to shorts against keys etc, which causes the battery fires we've all seen clips of. The disclaimer is there because you'll always get some fool who then tries to sue the manufacturer for their own mistakes.

To get it out is a pain in the ass, too.
There's a hole/tube in the CU's bottom half for just this purpose. You can push the screen out from above through that hole using some kind of poker.
 

Mndeadhead

Well-Known Member
took the Venty to a little Friday night pick with some of my musician buddies. One of the guys is a good friend, and a converted Vaper. I gave him a pax years ago and he's on his third, in addition to a Solo 2, and being the past owner of a Crafty+. I haded the Ventry to him. He took a hit, pulled it back and said "wow....wow....I really like this". He was amazed by how open it was an how easy it was to draw from. I expected him to make fun of how it looked, but he never said a word.
 

JoeMama

Well-Known Member
It's funny to me that there is less to say about Venty than would be thought necessary...
Aside from the rough rollout, which IMO they handled just fine, it seems that most everyone who has a Venty is getting nicely medicated and has no need to hash over issues. That's a good thing.
There's a hole/tube in the CU's bottom half for just this purpose. You can push the screen out from above through that hole using some kind of poker.
Yes, thanks, I thought that hole would lend a purpose. I was afraid to dent the screen too much pushing the SB tool tip through that hole... Guess I'll try it more gingerly next time I do a clean.
 
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