Vapman

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
I don't like the current designs for 510, i prefer gold plated conduction over ceramic ;)
Yes, i think the bowl design would need some small changes, maybe a bit thicker tubes... - but the heat is should even out pretty fast, what was the weight? 2g copper * 345 J/kg K * 200 K = 138 J or Ws, with 3 10W coils maybe 5 sec in theory, reality 10-15s?
 

szai

Well-Known Member
I don't like the current designs for 510, i prefer gold plated conduction over ceramic ;)
Yes, i think the bowl design would need some small changes, maybe a bit thicker tubes... - but the heat is should even out pretty fast, what was the weight? 2g copper * 345 J/kg K * 200 K = 138 J or Ws, with 3 10W coils maybe 5 sec in theory, reality 10-15s?

I tried the 510 coil and a vapcap and it wasn't that great. If you want electric the station can be used with an inverter in a car. Try it and report back!
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
I tried the 510 coil and a vapcap and it wasn't that great. If you want electric the station can be used with an inverter in a car. Try it and report back!
yes, i know that - a few pages back vapman said something about the DC voltage range, u can even run the station eg with a cheap power tool battery pack, no car needed ;)
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
here u go
The station works between approx. 16V to 23V. Below this, it would be quite slow and above this, it will blow the fuse. A battery pack is well possible, friends of mine are already doing it.
so eg 4-5x18650s and maybe a voltmeter for discharge control should be enough
 

vapman

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
I have some bad news to tell: All the parcels to Germany and Austria came back to us lately without knowing the exact reason. On the parcels was only marked "not permitted". To us it was completely incomprehensible as we sent parcels to those countries since many years on a regular basis. After lots of phone calls and emails we finally found out, that the new tobacco law is the reason. The customs state, that vapman can be used for tobacco and e-juices (called e-liquids in Europe) and is therefore not legal anymore! Imagine this, vapman is now illegal!
The irony of the story is, that in Austria they newly allow smoking in restaurants and bars again after it was banned for years but vaporizers are now illegal. This is hard to digest and accept as it actually means the end of vapman. We can no longer exist without having the certainty of shipping our products to our clients all over the world. Because we had this problem only in Germany and Austria so far, we decided to remove Germany and Austria from the list of countries in our online shop. We had to do this as the customs are threatening with criminal proceedings against the sellers and the buyers!

Our business is in limbo and I don't know how Storz & Bickel still can sell their products in Germany and even export to Switzerland. At the moment it seems to me, that this law is applied arbitrarily and this hurts especially a lot.

I will keep you informed, the situation for vapman is very serious and not looking good at all!

vapman
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
Damn customs and bureaucracy - the vapman construction is clearly not for ejuice with the holes/tubes in the bottom, and the capacity for tobacco would be smaller than any other device i know of - you can't even find much about vapman usage with tobacco in the internet, so how do customs come to that idea? Maybe hey should try it theirselves with tobacco, to see that it makes not much sense...
Ejuice and tobacco could be vaped on a hotplate, so that would also be illegal...
Maybe ask for the exact paragraphs and some comparable examples that lead to their decision / opinion - somewhere on that way is the best chance to change opinions with a lot of friendly formulated questions by my experience, good luck. Heads up! :)
(Shipping to an other EU coutry and then from there to AU/GER might work :lol: )
 
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antispleen

Company Rep
Company Rep
This is heartbreaking news. I just got a vapman a couple weeks ago and it is amazing!
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I'm pulling for you over here in the USA. The whole world needs to stop demonizing this miracle plant. Anything I could possibly do to help, please hit me up. Good luck.
 

Copacetic

Somewhere North of The Wall
I have some bad news.........
........... the situation for vapman is very serious and not looking good at all!

vapman

That's terrible!
I love my Vapman, and think every country should value the availability of such a great little aromatherapy device :(

Hopefully the Vapmans' erroneous classification as a tobacco or e-cig device can be rectified.

Austrias stance to permit smoking :puke: but ban vaporizers is truly ass-backwards lunacy.

Best wishes man!
 

vapman

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Do you still sell the vapman to german shops like verdampftnochmal, or is there the same problem?

Verdampftnochmal still has a stock of vapman and stations but I don't know if further shipping is possible. After what the the Department of Health and Consumer Protection in Germany wrote, it shouldn't be possible. They state, that it is illegal to trade any tobacco related goods. The most explosive point is, that it is not a question of functional specifications, it is only a question of fitness! If a vaporizer is capable of vaporizing any tobacco related products like e-juice or tobacco leaves, then it is classified as a tobacco related product.
Yesterday evening I talked to Andi from Verdampftnochmal and he didn't know about this new law, which is quite amazing! First he thought, that it can't be that serious but after reading out the emails we received, he took it very serious. I talked to other famous actors on the German scene and they also haven't heard of it.
Imagin, we get our parcel sent back with the note, that it is illegal to sell such products and then I call one of the biggest sellers and he hasn't heard of this new law! Real crazy situation.:hmm:

@Dynavaper: Thank you for stretching out your hand, it is much appreciated!

Thanks for the good wishes for the ongoing and unbelievable journey of vapman!:tup:

I keep you posted!


vapman
 

AtomicPB

Well-Known Member
@vapman

That sounds really serious. With what you are saying, it would mean that all Vaporizers might become illegal in Germany.

As you manufacturers are all kinda in the same boat, have you talked to S&B already? I can imagine that they can't be too happy about this new law either. Since they are a little bigger as a company they might already have some legal department or something working on it.

Somehow I can not imagine that this would hold up in the court of law, since there are many products related to tobacco consumption which are still freely available ...

Would it be possible to somehow label the Vapman different?

Anyways, I am very sorry to hear that und hope that you find a good solution so that we can enjoy your products in the future.
 

Basti

Well-Known Member
@vapman: i checked Article 20 of the Tobacco Products Directive (2014/40/EU) lays down rules for electronic cigarettes sold as consumer products in the EU and couldn't find anything which leads to illegal trade to tobacco related products. Where can I find this new rules?
 

vapman

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@vapman: i checked Article 20 of the Tobacco Products Directive (2014/40/EU) lays down rules for electronic cigarettes sold as consumer products in the EU and couldn't find anything which leads to illegal trade to tobacco related products. Where can I find this new rules?

The new law seems to leave a lot of space for interpretation.

Here is the original email we received from the German department.

"Auf der Homepage findet sich ein Video, in dem der Hersteller angibt, dass "liquids" verdampft werden können, allerdings ist das Video auf Englisch und die Übersetzung hierfür lautet "Flüssigkeiten". Da die Temperaturregulation bei dem betroffenen Produkt dadurch erfolgt, wie lange eine Flamme an die Kupferpfanne gehalten wird, ist es sehr wahrscheinlich, dass damit Temperaturen über den Siedetemperaturen der beiden üblichen Lösungsmittel Glycerin und 1,2-Propandiol von nikotinhaltigen E-Liquids erreicht werden. Daher erscheint anhand der Informationen der Homepage eine Dampferzeugung aus nikotinhaltigen E-Liquids mit dem Gerät möglich zu sein. Der Konsum des Dampfes erfolgt analog zu den Dämpfen von sonstigen Kräutern etc. (auf der Homepage angegeben und z.B. im Video beworben) über das Mundstück und somit handelt es sich nach hiesiger Auffassung um eine elektronische Zigarette im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 1 Tabakerzeugnisgesetz i.V.m. Art. 2 Nr. 16 der Richtlinie 2014/40/EU. Gemäß Art. 2 Nummer 16 der RL 2014/40/EU sind "elektronische Zigaretten" ein Erzeugnis, das zum Konsum nikotinhaltigen Dampfes mittels eines Mundstücks verwendet werden kann, oder jeder Bestandteil dieses Produkts, einschließlich einer Kartusche, eines Tanks, und des Gerätes ohne Kartusche oder Tank. Elektronische Zigaretten können Einwegprodukte oder mittels eines Nachfüllbehälters oder eines Tanks nachfüllbar sein oder mit Einwegkartuschen nachgeladen werden. Die Definition für eine "elektronische Zigarette" ist hier sehr weit gefasst und umfasst auch Teile einer elektronischen Zigarette, so auch z.B. einen Verdampfer. Bei der Definition für die elektronische Zigarette kommt es im Sinne des Tabakrechts nicht auf die Zweckbestimmung an, die Eignung ist schon ausreichend. Somit fällt das Produkt unter das Tabakrecht und kann aufgrund der in der Kontrollmitteilung angegeben Verstöße nicht freigegeben werden."


They actually watched our video, (yes, they have time for this) saw and heard the message, that vapman works with e-liquids. Now, one might think, it was a mistake to tell this on the video but after reading the whole email and especially the last two sentences, you can easily see that it wouldn't help not to mention it. This is the translation of the two last sentences:

"The definition of an "electronic cigarette" is here very broad and also includes parts of an electronic cigarette, such as e.g. an evaporator. The definition of the electronic cigarette does not apply to the purposes of tobacco law, its suitability is already sufficient. Thus, the product is covered by tobacco legislation and can not be released due to the infringements stated in the Control Notice."


Basically it says: because vapman is suitable and capable for vaporizing tobacco and tobacco related products, it is an e-cigarette and therefore all vaporizers can be classified as e-cigarettes!

Side note: Vapman is on the market since the end of 2005, years before the first e-cigarettes hit the market!

Arbitrariness is hard to bear, it really is!


vapman
 

simpleasthcis

... As a box of ....
Wow this is very harsh, particularly the Austrian policy how backward . Is it an attempt too disrupt counterfeit tabaco rather than eliminate smoking, so second hand smoke is fine if the tax is paid ?. Like banning cars for fear of people useing dirty fuels .
I’ve never used tabaco in my life thankfully, with Vapman I have fucked combustion completely with emeasureable health benefits. I wouldn’t wanna be without one .
Good luck with the future Viva la Vapman


Found this FYI
http://forestonline.eu/news/press-r...ations-infantilise-consummers-say-campaigners
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
That's so f'd up - it reads a lot like the personal opinion/interpretation of a few in the office... Usually those people live at least 10 years behind reality, so i'm astonished they got the flash player running on their netscape browser to watch a video :lol:
So if they are consequent they MUST apply that for the whole vaporizer industry, bc their interpretation of that paragraph applys for every model on the market, without exception of declaration tricks.

It will be interresting to see how other EU countrys interprete that paragraph...but that story reminds me of a similar US FDA thingy -
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/f...6-end-of-vaping-devices-2018-in-the-us.22561/

Maybe sent them a list of all other producers in the segment, so they realize they are poking in a bees hive (or just say, damn we've got much more work to do :rolleyes:) - anyways, u are not alone, it's just a smal consolation but it will affect all producers.
 
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