VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use

[Andreaerdna]

Yet another show and tell:


Who is the king

I realised how bad DiYer I am only when I sealed everything forgetting to take pictures of mid-steps

At the end of the line:
Induction can reproduce very well butane power, both in speed and vapor production and it is a lot of fun!

 

[virtualpurple]

How hard would this be for a novice?

I'm definitely buying @Pipes model when available, but I'd love to make one at my leisure if it is within my scope of ability.

 

[Sketch420]

Can anyone provide a good electrical schematic of how to fit these few parts together? That'd be great. I'm good at DIY, but not so good at fitting hardware into the right places without a plan. Think I'm gonna order a few parts this weekend. Thanks.
I'm still getting one when @Pipes has that sale (no hurry), but would love to piece one together myself. Love the great ideas here.

 

[Pipes]

Not sure about the "good" part, but it should do for this simple hook up.

 

[Andreaerdna]

How hard would this be for a novice?

I'm definitely buying @Pipes model when available, but I'd love to make one at my leisure if it is within my scope of ability.

This is my second DIY electric project.
First one was a simple variable voltage module with only 4 soldering points

This one is a little more complicated but @Pipes did all the leg (brain) work giving all the components (and the link where to buy) needed at the beginning of this thread.
I used a soldering iron and a glue gun to assemble differents hardwares

This to assemble the heater (basically soldering the coil adding a switch to it / mine being 3 momentary push buttons hiddens under the leather)

There is another aspect more important being the tuning of the heater in order to not heat too fast (and not have to count after click) I know Pipes is exploring possibilities I would never thought of in order to create a setup that work for everyone (tolerance in caps production counts too, coil is sensible to variations) without counting after click.
this part needs knowledge and know how in order to avoid time loss and accidents and I have none of those qualities.

Hope this answers your question @virtualpurple

 

[virtualpurple]

Thanks @Andreaerdna! I love the open source love going on in these threads. @Pipes, love the monster you've created!

 

[Sketch420]

@Pipes thank you very much. Your the best. Figured it was something simple like that, but it's been too long. Going to order parts this week

 

[Pipes]

Yes, as @Andreaerdna stated, I've been playing with different coil designs. The change I made was to narrow the diameter some and make a portion doubled up to force the magnetic lines to a more focused area. Trying to avoid it going too high and heating the stem.
You will notice it looks a little burnt. This was caused by over running it without a cool down period. The coil varnish started smoking at around 3 minutes without a cool down period. No damage but the coil did get mighty hot.



As far as, where I'm at goes, I have the main components and just awaiting some minor stuff like grommets and nice nuts and bolts. Just have to test once all together and ensure it's not overheating anything it shouldn't be. I'm mounting the coil very close to the PC board so have to really test it out.
Good news is, it all fits in the jar!! To me, getting all the parts together is a pita, but figuring out how to assemble is the most fun part.



Drilling the hole, for the power cord, is not a pleasant task. Actual, the drilling isn't bad but found heat treating is impossible. Broke 2 jars learning this. Very susceptible to heat stress. Dry grinding will have to do.

 

[marduk]

Drilling the hole, for the power cord, is not a pleasant task. Actual, the drilling isn't bad but found heat treating is impossible. Broke 2 jars learning this. Very susceptible to heat stress. Dry grinding will have to do.

Hmmm... Didn't realize you were going to use regular glass mason jars. Is there too much heat generated for plastic mason jars to be an option? Just curious...

 

[Pipes]

Hmmm... Didn't realize you were going to use regular glass mason jars. Is there too much heat generated for plastic mason jars to be an option? Just curious...

Would probably be OK in plastic if the coil isn't too close and vent holes installed.
I feel much safer with the glass as provides a care free safety net. We are heading down new and untraveled territories here. Since I'm going to be selling these, I don't want to be worrying about someone burning down their house over a mistake I made.

 

[natural farmer]

Yes, as @Andreaerdna stated, I've been playing with different coil designs. The change I made was to narrow the diameter some and make a portion doubled up to force the magnetic lines to a more focused area. Trying to avoid it going too high and heating the stem.
You will notice it looks a little burnt. This was caused by over running it without a cool down period. The coil varnish started smoking at around 3 minutes without a cool down period. No damage but the coil did get mighty hot.



As far as, where I'm at goes, I have the main components and just awaiting some minor stuff like grommets and nice nuts and bolts. Just have to test once all together and ensure it's not overheating anything it shouldn't be. I'm mounting the coil very close to the PC board so have to really test it out.
Good news is, it all fits in the jar!! To me, getting all the parts together is a pita, but figuring out how to assemble is the most fun part.



Drilling the hole, for the power cord, is not a pleasant task. Actual, the drilling isn't bad but found heat treating is impossible. Broke 2 jars learning this. Very susceptible to heat stress. Dry grinding will have to do.

Well, it looks beautiful anyhow!

Was drilling the ceramic mug easier? It was still a great design... And more stealthy?

 

[Pipes]

I put together the first unit which is an "As Planned" production unit. I'm just running it threw the paces. I made the depth less for a couple reasons, to help clean the cap from getting caught up while pulling it out. Also, to reduce heating of upper portion of stem. As a result, with my 50 Watt supply, the click happens at 8 1/2 seconds. My VC is one generation back, before they rounded off the air channels. Apparently, this makes a difference as @Andreaerdna has found. Less metal, so takes longer. Perhaps he could be kind enough to give a little information on this.

Here it is!







Yes, those are magnets on the underside of the lid. Really cools down the VC quick.







The only thing I have not received are some black fancy bolts and grommets. I now don't think the grommets will be usable anyway as won't fit where I had planned. Bolts are a "would be nice" so will not slow me down...

Getting close guys.

Now the good news, or better news,? I'm going to price it at $50. + Shipping.

 

[Diggy Smalls]

@Pipes Dude, I'm so glad I'm on that list. That looks so awesome. I'll maybe paint the glass, or not.
This is what I need in my music/art room...and then the vapcap can become my official creativity vape. I don't trust myself with open torch flames and my art/instruments...not while high, anyway. lol

 

[Sketch420]

Oh can't wait. Looks great though! Would be nice to not have to use a torch at home.

 

[Andreaerdna]

I gave it new "skin"

It has been 3 weeks, i have torches I like a lot (like blue one)I never used them once since 1st prototype of induction heating (bamboo box)

My setup is different from pipes.

I have a constant voltage PS (12v 6A) bought by mistake (better constant current) and two caps in my disposition. Newer one being 1 year old, older one bought during first indigogo/nogo campaign

One (the older) works great with little coil arrangement the other overpower my coil /PS so fast that is annoying to use.

I have a low res caliper stating both caps have 0.15mm walls and almost same other dimesions. The older one seems wider of a very little.

I get the double click I was used with torch and a full load spent with 3 consecutives cycles if i stop heating at the second click (big clouds like torch from 2nd cycle)

Hope @VapCap enlighten us very soon about caps differences

 

[Pipes]

Very nice. Perfect stealth going on there.

So guys, the list for the first round is now full. I want to run the first unit for a week or so to make sure there is no heating problems because of coil placement. The concept does rely on short burst usage as there is no coil cool down mechanism in place, like with the bigger type heavy duty units. It is after-all, the induction unit is sold as a learning novelty item for the most part.
In the way I have it oriented, the tin lid begins to warm as well as some electrical parts I'm sure. But doesn't get too hot to touch within the time to click and well beyond. Cools back down by the time the unit gives the go ahead so all is good.
The worst case, and the only case, would be if you had a party and a line up of VCs waiting their turn...
And keep the young ones from sticking a pencil down the hole!

So I guess a BIG CAUTION note for you folks.
Do not operate continuously beyond X amount of time. Allow for cool down between uses.

Different power supplies are going to give different results as @Andreaerdna pointed out. The reason for a CC supply is to cap the limit of current. This has become very evident with the double coil I have made. If the supply did not cap the power, I found the amps kick right up into the double digits and clicks in 2 seconds flat. Too fast to have any reasonable control. On my 60 watt (5 amp limit) supply, it takes close to 10 seconds from dead cold and around 8.5 seconds from a warm state for the click. At the click, reasonable vapor production starts. With the original coil, and placed where there is no additional heating happening, it was taking about 1-2 seconds less across the board. But found I had to wait a second after the click for the same vapor production. So better calibration..? At least for my cap.
I know, lots of confusing talk. Basically, doubling the coil does help focus the heat but have to regulate the current to maintain some control. My coil placement kills efficiency as it heats more stuff than needed but keeps the overall package size very condensed for fitting into the jar or any hole that size.

Purposely priced the first run affordably as the design is bound to change down the road. The next run will be after feedback comes back in and any mods and improvements discussed. Pricing will change accordingly.

Once you start using "The Jar Heater", the torch will be obsolete for many.

Can't think of a name for it. I know ShitFucker has already being taken... @Stu...

 

[natural farmer]

I love how the induction heater has come out so far, a very compact package and very affordable for the moment and I am sure it will remain relatively affordable in the future knowing Pipes a little. If the jar is replaced with turned wood at some point it might go up but will definitely worth it! Kudos @Pipes!!!
Where do the batteries go again? In a bigger jar in the future, right?

 

[Pipes]

As usual thanks NF.
Yes, batteries will go in a jar with the unit. Honestly, haven't soldered up a pack yet. Have the goods, was going to cross that bridge this week as well. Your next question, I'll beat you to it.
What about the car?
Excellent question! The car battery is totally a CV (constant voltage) supply and I still need to test. I heavily suspecting it will heat too fast. Will look into using a spacer, if needed, to lessen the insertion distance.

 

[phattpiggie]

The car battery is constant but the alternator can pump out 14.5v, how much of a difference will this make?

Not sure on the consistency of the caps but Ti and SS CCD's, magnetic SS, could be the reason for a difference.

 

[Pipes]

Two very good points.

Yeah, car voltage can go quite high, specially if in deep charge. Can make a huge difference. Ideally, a high current regulator would be perfect but the cost is nuts. Too bad the OKR regulator series didn't go a bit higher in voltage. Can get a little better than the rated 6v but not much.
A more cost efficient method would be to add 2-3 feet of a little smaller gauge like 18 AWG lamp cord in series. With the high current and selected under gauged wire can be used as a voltage divider type regulator. I used this method when I made my DIY FlashVape PA. In that unit I had to bring 5 volt down to roughly 4 volt. Worked like a charm and cord only got a little warm.

The consistency between caps is something I think we have to experiment with. This data will be hopefully collected in the first round of feedback. I believe they all will work but some take longer than others to click..? I've tested 1 and 2 version back but know there are quite a few versions out there.

We'll get it all nailed down.

BTW @phattpiggie , love that avatar!

 

[Andreaerdna]

Not sure on the consistency of the caps but Ti and SS CCD's, magnetic SS, could be the reason for a difference.

I have a omni a uni and old OG (With glass pinches around ceramic screen). The amount of time needed to reach click seems nearly the same (and very different between caps)

I noticed another thing while playing:
OG VC, due to a lower conductivity of the glass bowl (IMO), needs a heating cycle more to get vapor going.
With TI tip I get good vapor starting 2cycle (first one tasty but not thick). With glass I have to wait the 3rd one and it isn't as thick (but obviously I got more cycles-puffs)

IMO differences are inside the cap indeed, but luckily we will not have to wait too long before knowing the truth

 

[Pipes]

OK, being testing the unit in the car for a couple days. Definitely need to do a couple things to make it work, BUT holy fuck, it works too well. Yes, the speed of the click is like under 3 seconds.
Excuse the messy car, man it shows up bad in a picture. Needs vacuuming pretty bad.



Here's how it all played out. I plugged my car adapter into the accessory jack and found the click was extremely fast. I took a haul and my god, I have never gotten that thick of tasty vapor out of this unit. Plus, zero char taste. I was cracking quite the smile and give it another go. 2 seconds and click, quickly pulled it out and again, wow. Full smile going on now.
Simply unbelievable. Went to try again and the unit was dead. I thought I must have blow the fuse.

However, the fuse was fine but the pressure spring had heated and compacted. So much for my car cord been the advertised rating.


So attempt number 2. I found a spring that looked like it was heavy enough and give it a go. Again, two fantastic puff and it died.



Again, the spring had collapsed.



Attempt number 3. This time I removed the spring completely and changed the fuse to a longer style and added a nut and bolt into the screw on tip. Shoved it into the accessory nice and tight. Now I was running on nitro. Yea ha, Consistently 5 huge clouds hauls per full bowl and then zero vapor. All depleted in the 5 hauls. I repeated this consistently a couple bowl fulls.
This is another level guys!!!



And all this time, I've been trying to match the heat up time to that of a lighter as a variable. Well let's toss that perception out into the trash. Seems to taste much nicer when heat up is quicker. Would like to see it around 3 seconds so your not so jumpy on getting out in time. You feel like you're in a gun showdown ready to draw. After all, overshooting the target also becomes quicker.

So what does this mean?

One thing is that I now recommend a more powerful supply. Like a 10 amp or 120 watt pup. My supply still works fine but have a longer wait for the click. It is just so cool to just dip it in and you hear the click so fast. Hard to believe what you get out of it in that short of time.

Secondly, for the car, I HIGHLY recommend a direct connection to the fuse box or behind the accessory plug. I plan to do so as well. Having a non-spring loaded accessory plug is far from ideal and want to not use it like that. If the connection becomes loose, it will heat up and be a possible fire hazard. Using about 5-6 feet of lamp cord will likely bring the click time down to 3-4 seconds.

So that's it for now. Things are looking more awesome than before!!!

 

[flotntoke]

OK, being testing the unit in the car for a couple days. Definitely need to do a couple things to make it work, BUT holy fuck, it works too well. Yes, the speed of the click is like under 3 seconds.
Excuse the messy car, man it shows up bad in a picture. Needs vacuuming pretty bad.



Here's how it all played out. I plugged my car adapter into the accessory jack and found the click was extremely fast. I took a haul and my god, I have never gotten that thick of tasty vapor out of this unit. Plus, zero char taste. I was cracking quite the smile and give it another go. 2 seconds and click, quickly pulled it out and again, wow. Full smile going on now.
Simply unbelievable. Went to try again and the unit was dead. I thought I must have blow the fuse.

However, the fuse was fine but the pressure spring had heated and compacted. So much for my car cord been the advertised rating.


So attempt number 2. I found a spring that looked like it was heavy enough and give it a go. Again, two fantastic puff and it died.



Again, the spring had collapsed.



Attempt number 3. This time I removed the spring completely and changed the fuse to a longer style and added a nut and bolt into the screw on tip. Shoved it into the accessory nice and tight. Now I was running on nitro. Yea ha, Consistently 5 huge clouds hauls per full bowl and then zero vapor. All depleted in the 5 hauls. I repeated this consistently a couple bowl fulls.
This is another level guys!!!



And all this time, I've been trying to match the heat up time to that of a lighter as a variable. Well let's toss that perception out into the trash. Seems to taste much nicer when heat up is quicker. Would like to see it around 3 seconds so your not so jumpy on getting out in time. You feel like you're in a gun showdown ready to draw. After all, overshooting the target also becomes quicker.

So what does this mean?

One thing is that I now recommend a more powerful supply. Like a 10 amp or 120 watt pup. My supply still works fine but have a longer wait for the click. It is just so cool to just dip it in and you hear the click so fast. Hard to believe what you get out of it in that short of time.

Secondly, for the car, I HIGHLY recommend a direct connection to the fuse box or behind the accessory plug. I plan to do so as well. Having a non-spring loaded accessory plug is far from ideal and want to not use it like that. If the connection becomes loose, it will heat up and be a possible fire hazard. Using about 5-6 feet of lamp cord will likely bring the click time down to 3-4 seconds.

So that's it for now. Things are looking more awesome than before!!!

Absolutely BRILLIANT!!!

I'm more interested in a car solution. Flame is fine with me if home or out, but can get a little tricky in the car. Luckily my commute involves traffic and very long lights.

 

[phattpiggie]

@Pipes my 'Tinkering' skills are no where near at the same levels as yourself.

I'd go for a designated supply from and fused at the battery in double insulated cable with a high current plug, perhaps. Power amp style.

I have one of these, 30 odd amp, max'ing out in the hundreds. All I know is that it would fizz 2 large batteries and crank a diesel engine.

Or a trickle charger and one of these, only rated at 3.2ah but cold crank of 50a, 3lbs/1.3kg in weight. Sealed so no worries about keeping it upright.
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.php?bID=B166&vID=3914

 

[Pipes]

So you got me digging for what I was considering as the V2 upgrade. Had in mind but hadn't sourced because I needed more data, which seems I finding out with these experiments.
Needed to know what current levels and such to decide on the proper components without overkill and wasting money.

With the unit as it stands now, the car thing is going to need be a direct wire supply similar to what high power stereo installers do. Tap into a good direct battery line with an inline 15 amp fuse. We purposely want to pick a medium gauge wire for this, as we want to have a small voltage drop across it. 16-18 AWG type thing. This has yet to be determined.

The V2 upgrade is going to possibly be incorporated into the base unit pending the feedback here. Hard to say whether many will actually need or not and, of course, put the price up. As well as the user will need to provide 3 each 18650 cells. It could also be added later to the exsisting setup.

Another phase of testing began last night when I ran off 3 18650 cells for the night and will continue until depleted. So far 5 bowls in and no sign of slowing. Suspect many more. Works well and clicks in 7 seconds. Should be quicker but seems the battery holders I got are NOT up to the task. The contact springs start to get very hot by the end of the 7 seconds. Then cool down quick. Another lesson learned, anyone need a bag of holders...

Here is the setup I am currently testing.



I am currently sourcing a better suited battery holder and seems getting that units with better springs only come for the flat top non-protected cells. This throws off my "cheap" in jar battery option and forced me to move quicker into my thoughts about a V2 unit. Which is a self contained battery pack which can be charged inside the device with all the safety and balancing done automatically.

Here is the circuit. The dotted portion is the added components.



The BMS unit does the protection and power distribution and balancing of cells. It also does the charge protection but not the charge rate. Picking a proper charger might be a factor but nothing we can't overcome.

Preliminary sourcing has for these so far.

3 Cell Holder
25 Amp BMS/Bal Unit

As for differences between caps, I honestly can't see why one would be different "enough" to cause any real problem. I sure hope those words don't come back to bite me.

Shaking the mud off the boots and trudging forward...