VapCap DIY Induction Heating : Bits 'n' pieces

[TommyDee]

I love it when answers come just for the asking. Thanks again George!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=hubNTLR4ivE&feature=emb_logo

The circuit is identical to the mosfet switch with a reduction in both the capacitance and inductance (2 coils w/ toroids) in the heater section. Judging by the inductors, this is a 4 amp limit on the device as the 2 coils have very thin wire.

The good news is that at this size, we are much more likely to make a single cordless handheld IH vape.

Now I do wonder what commands 2 bills for the Dynavape heater when the others cost less with more functionality. If there was ever a $99 opportunity for a low budget, low power IH to hit the market, now would be that time. That circuit could be put in a very cute little brick.

Personally I think it is under-powered but for on-demand, it might keep up. Somehow I think I can outdraw the Apollo II.

 

[TommyDee]

Something new to throw into the fray. Certainly bits and pieces worthy. Apollo II guts. One cap, mini coils, mosfet switch. Fairly basic if you ask me
And it follows the ZVS schematic. What is that in the upper right [U1] I wonder. Is that a debounce element?

I might have stuffed C6 instead of C5 unless they did that for heat considerations.

Those coils are 100 microhenry. The capacitor is the same .33uf but a lower voltage rating which is fine. Can't quite make out the transistors or resistors.

Alright back to business.

Today I got the 130C 14 gauge wire. Now I just need a few more IH's. Hopefully I actually have 3 coming. One will become a half-pint that should mimic the circuit above. Also waiting on a set of fet switches.

I guess I should start some timing studies. Today I have two data points; 1) 12 volts into the original IH was 8.5 seconds on the SS VC. Compare that to the 8v Runt and you get 20-1/2 seconds. I know I should be able to draw a really nice curve with a little experimentation.
Add; 7-1/2 seconds at 12.5v at the brick, and 11 seconds at 11 volts. Purdee-touchy in my book.
​

 

[PKOK]

Thanks for that great info!

Next theme.... maybe angles or carving.

I am enjoying the quick heat ups and how easy it is to get evenly toasted abv/dcb.

Nice work @TheThriftDrifter it's very satisfying taking that first click on your DIY Unit!

Don't worry about the coating. It won't short since the wear is at the glass surface.

I agree but the OP used Kapon Tape on the tube under the wire, if it makes you feel better.

I'm still waiting on parts!

 

[PKOK]

Today I got the 130C 14 gauge wire. Now I just need a few more IH's. Hopefully I actually have 3 coming. One will become a half-pint that should mimic the circuit above. Also waiting on a set of fet switches.

Why 130c Vs 200c ?

 

[TommyDee]

130 degrees centigrade versus 200 degree centigrade epoxy coating on the wire. The golden tint versus the red tint of the insulation.

Watching water boil. That's pretty much how waiting for is stuff to me. What's worse is when you get it and it isn't what you ordered. That sets off a cascade of failed ideas about schedule. Then you have those that you wonder if it ever gets out of the 'postage notified for pickup' state. Give me RadShack anyday!

When I get to testing coils, they will be right on the glass. Kapton tape has enough stiction to make vial adjustments a little tricky. The epoxy on the wire will be more than sticky enough to keep the vial in place. I basically constrict the vial in the coil when I make the termination. Tricky but highly reliable. For now, the Teflon tubes just make up the difference between the coil diameter and the glass vial. They too have the perfect amount of stiction. The vial doesn't move unless I do it purposefully.

I did glean another worthwhile bit of information yesterday. The frequency of the circuit is determined by the 2 inductors in the circuit. From a past life I can make sense of this. Higher frequencies can generate smaller electron movement within the metals (shorter distances before they reversed at faster rates). I suspect this makes for different heating aspects like being functional with smaller pieces of metal. This will be interesting to test. I've noted that the 120W version does a lousy job on heating a bicycle spoke for instance. With an increased frequency, the bicycle spoke may also get hot.

 

[PKOK]

Watching water boil. That's pretty much how waiting for is stuff to me. What's worse is when you get it and it isn't what you ordered. That sets off a cascade of failed ideas about schedule. Then you have those that you wonder if it ever gets out of the 'postage notified for pickup' state. Give me RadShack anyday!

Yea my water just isn't wanting to boil at all. I just got some pre-wired m/f/Powerplugs and the wiring is 20ga at best. <- will these be ok for short runs? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C7VSRBG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shouldn't have ordered anything from China but there was no telling at the time.

I did glean another worthwhile bit of information yesterday. The frequency of the circuit is determined by the 2 inductors in the circuit. From a past life I can make sense of this. Higher frequencies can generate smaller electron movement within the metals (shorter distances before they reversed at faster rates). I suspect this makes for different heating aspects like being functional with smaller pieces of metal. This will be interesting to test. I've noted that the 120W version does a lousy job on heating a bicycle spoke for instance. With an increased frequency, the bicycle spoke may also get hot.

Yes, we/you still haven't tried arrangements that would lend to e nail or banger. I may have the parts to play with that using a brick and one of three spare IH modules, having said that I don't want to blow any of the IH Modules.

 

[TommyDee]

Sweet, the Mosfet switches got here already. I need to set up some tests with these. I want to see if I can vary the output of these switches by reducing the gate voltage. If that doesn't work, I'll see if PWM is compatible with ZVS circuits. I need to figure out gate current to know what it will take. If gate-drive voltage is a viable way to manage output, the whole DC-DC converter becomes moot.

What does a nail banger arrangement look like? I only do flower and the occasional Muad Dib dab so I am out of my element in the bobbles of the practice. Best I can tell is that you have a bowl that you want to heat the floor specifically and the low on the walls. Above this you have the draw-tube. That's what I've gleaned so far.

Now take the Apollo II wand put a larger coil in there. Shrink down the layout to a cube no bigger than 2" x 2" x 2". Cute right? Now thread that onto your bowl and give it some power. Banger! Of course, things can get fancier but that is the jest.

Yea, those wires serve one purpose - resistor. I think they are actually 22 gauge. That was the cable that dropped my 12 volts to 10 volts by the time it got to my IH. There are specific 18 gauge wires you can buy. I'm actually zoning on this coax cable from the power brick. Very nice little leadwire.

Either the screw-terminal connectors or the solder connections work well enough. The screw terminals are hard on the connection but they are simple to deal with. The solder ones are a joke but they do work well enough. The biggest problem with most of them is the lack of a split center pin. I suggest measuring the voltage loss across the connector to get a good understanding of what's working and what is not. I get readings of 0.1v to some at nearly a volt loss from the wire in one connector to the same wire in the mating connector. Lousy ones need to be binned.

Oh, I found the same issue with the prewired switches with 5.5 x 2.1 connections molded in. Also bogus wire gauge and a huge voltage loss across the cable.

I know how you feel about known good ZVS boards. I could replace the components but I'd rather not since I don't have spares. I'm still juggling the 2 I have. Definitely don't want either one to go out of commision.

 

[PKOK]

I know how you feel about known good ZVS boards. I could replace the components but I'd rather not since I don't have spares. I'm still juggling the 2 I have. Definitely don't want either one to go out of commision.

No, no I feel the same, Just sorting the good from The Best.

What does a nail banger arrangement look like? I only do lower and the occasional Muad Dib dab so I am out of my element in the bobbles of the practice. Best I can tell is that you have a bowl that you want to heat the floor specifically and the low on the walls. Above this you have the draw-tube. That's what I've gleaned so far.

You got me TD it's Next-gen stuff but it looks to be the ultimate vape!

Yea, those wires serve one purpose - resistor. I think they are actually 22 gauge. That was the cable that dropped my 12 volts to 10 volts by the time it got to my IH. There are specific 18 gauge wires you can buy. I'm actually zoning on this coax cable from the power brick. Very nice little leadwire.

Is that your way of telling me to pitch them?

 

[TommyDee]

If you want a hot IH, then yes. 16 gauge all the way. If you want a slightly tamed IH, which I recommend, trim the cable short and use the connector. You can measure the loss by putting a volt meter on both ends of the wire while drawing a significant load. Line losses are normal but do know what attributes them.

The one caveat to those connectors, these do have split center pins. If you look at the female connector you'll see the split center pin. That is a little bit of spring tension to assure contact.

What rig are you doing dabs on now?

 

[PKOK]

Haha, N. VS S., E. VS W., YOU AND I, we have trouble communicating
Ok, the cable good for short runs where the loss of voltage is needed or good.(Because of resistance)

What rig are you doing dabs on now?

None I've yet to have the pleasure but from what I gleen dabbing seems to be the best vape going! I did order some China Glass that has come in ! They are no longer the bongs of old.
Anyway as I understand either of those bowls would be useful on it.

 

[TommyDee]

I have a really nice glass 'Bong of Old' that could easily be converted to a vape rig since it has a 19mm fitting. It has a chip in the receiver and it ruined it for me. Still works a charm though.

 

[TommyDee]

I am finally running the boost/buck meter as a battery charger. I have the 3s with BMS charging at a 1/2 amp. Not sure how to get the constant current to kick on the light. However, it is running in what appears to be a CC mode.

I've become a little more familiar with the controls and settings. There's a lot built into just the meter portion of the assembly. The converter can be unplugged and replaced with a different model. All the brains are part of the meter. The pair is not well tuned. What I mean by that is that I can set it for 12.60 volts. And it holds that setting perfectly. However, when it reads back the voltage, it is 12.57v. Same with the current. I set it for 0.500 amps and I get 0.556 amps. This is common for uncalibrated stuff though. Here are a few details;

Display interface is the true readings. Input, output, and the current wattage
The second display interface shows cumulated current and watts - perfect for battery chargers - think: testing cell capacity.
This screen also carries the time on during this period and again, the input voltage. The output voltage here is again the set voltage.
First interface is a setting screen. The voltage shown here in yellow is the set voltage, not the actual output voltage at that moment. Amps and watts are current state. Temperature of the module but not sure where the sensor is located. It could be heatsink temp. 7 watts has me running at about 42'C.
The lower right of the panel is the setting you want. Press and hold the control knob and the numbers will start flashing in the blue panel. Click again and you get to individual digits. Changing the register is painfully slow so the individual digits is a real plus. There is no accumulator/buffer.
System setup is housekeeping. This is where you set some overall protective levels. I enabled the temperature protection OTP which let's you set the temp you want things to shut down at. This screen is activated with a long-press of the on-button.

For what this does it is a very good deal at under $10. Add a fan and a workable housing and you got a pretty nice power supply with digital controls. Indeed, yes... the knob is an encoder rather than a poteniometer.

Now remember why I considered this device. I can charge a pack with a good reliable output from a wall wart. It has to be 12.6v and no more. There the 5 ohm/5watt ressitor would charge the pack with no problems. !Problem - I don't have a 16.4 volt wall wart for the planned 4s pack. I'll marry this meter to a brick and call it good.

We do have a little bit of a hint as to what those housekeeping features do - from another version of a meter; Note the protection settings, they are similar. Now I'm going to have to have a closer look at this other meter. Note the settings. Reads almost like a Mod

check out the name in the upper left hand corner of the meter

Crap - I wonder if those calibration setting are available on my meter too. That'll clinch it! Now how the fuck do I get to it!

...Don't see them. Also don't see constant current directly but this supply is a current limiting supply so that will have to do. Seems the LED is not working for current limiting. Noted.

 

[Hippie]

Banggood usually list the best instructions I've found for these things
I think this is the same one ...
https://www.banggood.com/ZK-4KX-CNC...24.html?akmClientCountry=GB&&cur_warehouse=UK

https://banggood.app.link/jY6jJSRlH5

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Banggood usually list the best instructions I've found for these things
I think this is the same one ...
https://www.banggood.com/ZK-4KX-CNC...24.html?akmClientCountry=GB&&cur_warehouse=UK

https://banggood.app.link/jY6jJSRlH5

Hey ! This is the one i am using for my glassball logvapes lately. It is solid choice but it is too early to say about durability,but it gets a little hot above 40w,which is normal since it is rated for up to 35w,i dunno how much the IH uses.. The one that TommyDee has on his IH is sofar the most solid one durability wise. I have the button version on order also and it probably will be one i will use on my PSUs as a standart.
This one heats much less but is PWM based,i think it is better value price cause you dont need 0.01 precison anyway. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000125359332.html
2.1 working voltage: DC5V~30V, input anti-reverse connection protection
2.2 rated current: 5A maximum current 15A
2.3 maximum power: 150W
2.2 working frequency: 1KHz~99KHz adjustable, 1KHz step, default frequency of 20KHz, accuracy of about 1%
2.3 duty cycle: 0-100%, 1% step
2.4 product size: 79mm*43mm*26mm
2.5 product weight: 41g
2.6 packaging: carton packaging
All parameters can be set to power down storage.
I
It can handle a momentary up to 15a which explains why it heats less.

 

[Hippie]

I bought a Zk-j5x which works well for my halogen vapes n diy things but only goes up and down in .05 increments so I've got a Xys3580 on order
https://www.banggood.com/XYS3580-DC...rmmds=detail-bottom-alsolike&cur_warehouse=CN

And got my eyes peeled, on the lookout for a box to put it in
(I knew my ecig atomiser box hoarding would pay off one day lol)

 

[PKOK]

 

[TommyDee]

Thank you all for the excellent links I didn't realize how many flavors there were of this converter.

Depending on the input voltage, the current level will be from as low as 4 amps to up to 8 amps. This is all dependent on the coil's coupling with the VC and the amount of voltage provided. I know 7v should average about 4 amps. 12.6V on a tightly would coil could reach as high as 8 amps. That little 200W supply is managing 12.5v at probably 6.5 amps which is way over the rated 65 watts of the brick. No heat issues with this one due to the duty cycle of only 10 seconds max. Typically you'd want a 96 watt brick. Name brand bricks are often under-rated where everything else is rated for maximum and often derated to 75-80% for a 100% duty cycle.

That's a nice piece of glass there @PKOK That will be hard to heat up with an IH

Now I realize what is missing amongst this lockdown - Garage Sales! Thanks @Hippie for this realization. That is my source for artisan supplies.​

 

[TommyDee]

Well now, my 2 ZVS units and the converter w/ remote knob have hit stateside and cleared customs. Got Fet switches and 14 & 15 gauge magnet wire on hand.

And the '20 cap and tip has thrown me for a loop. Looking forward to feedback from the IH community to see if they experience what they expect. It is a serious herb stretcher, I'll give it that. Then again I've tasted 'vape-liquor' and I'm hooked! I'm back to the '18 setup as the DD.

 

[TommyDee]

Well now. Time for an update on happenings. Been using the fully portable Runt for the last week or so. It really is winning out even though it takes longer to heat using the 2s battery configuration. Time I've got. But the sessions, although short, are intense! The 'finishing off of the bowl' on a second draw is only available because I need to finish it, not because I want to finish it. Whatever didn't finish in the first draw is the dregs. You missed out, sorry for your luck, come back again later.

Okay, I started a thread on Vape Liquor because that is what these efforts really leads to for me. With better control of the IH, I can one-hit my vape sessions with great levels of extraction. If your constitution is built for it, on-demand IH for a VC is a huge advantage over any torch when it comes to rapid extraction. That is not a small if either. This is obviously not for everyone. This is just so you know what my aim is. This is what I am comparing my experience to. This is what I know because I'm living it real time with you.

I found a very disturbing trend with induction coupling with a series of the VapCaps. Still astonished by the findings so that needs study. But between the '18, '19, and '20 tips, the '20 is notably cooler in the ZVS IH. I couldn't get dark ABV. Explain that! Someone messed the magic jujube's at DV. I wonder if the Apollo 2 treats the '20 VC any differently than the common generic offering. I'd love to do some experiments with that unit. Anyone want to have a go at some diagnostics if you have a good collection of VC's and an Apollo 2? So for the remainder, the '18 drew maybe 15% more power than the '19 tip/cap. I can combust an '18 cap in a heartbeat in The Runt. And I noted the '19 wasn't quite keeping up... does that mean I can manage combustion a little better if I relax the draw slightly?

It is these smaller observations that I am making with the IH and the VC in mind as a target medium. I am 'tuning' my experience. This has everything to do with how you interact with your devices. And this latest finding makes me worry about overall compatibility in the long term. I haven't found a solution to the '20-M and I probably won't even bother. It's probably going to someone that really needs a light-weight vape rather than a bud-ripper.

And a word on the click. I now have 5 caps in my household. 1 clicks with any respect for me. It clicks when I should start drawing so vape doesn't escape my cap - and it clicks again when it is up to temp so I know how much more to add to 'normal' for that cap. Its a good hot cap. It is the '18 cap and its got a few battle scars but it just work consistently every time. I wish I could say that about any of the others. Another great reason to be drawing while heating. If you are edging for combustion, the taste and temp will warn you faster than any click will if you are already drawing.

On-demand draws on your VC will really bite into your herb budget. If you are use to getting 5-6 quality draws from a full cap, this method is not for you. If I get 3 draws to dark ABV, I've done something wrong.

With the advent of the '20-M, being a slow cooker, the portable IH has to be 3s 18650. I've been tokin' on The Runt for 3 days now and the cells are still resting at 3.75v. A simple 2s/3s switch will make for a new opportunity for slow heating and fast heating. Again, I can outdraw slow heating if the VC is breathing well with a particular load.

I'm still seeing a truly variable IH as a desktop unit. Simply too much bulk to add a converter to a handheld unit. This unit needs a presence sensor. That would make it a true dip & sip device for tuning your heating for each draw. Some read-back of data might be good too. Again, with these latest VC findings, maybe a "watts imparted" meter for each insertion. That way a low coupling cap can measure just how much energy it received may take longer than a different VC taking on the same amount of energy.

I've also given thought to usability to an extent that I've formed an opinion for the time being. I don't want the draw tube to be part of the device. I want to remove the stem and cap from the device to finish of the lingering vape as we are use to. I don't have any problem with drawing on the VC with the heater in hand warming it up. But I really don't want it attached throughout the session. I find it "restful" to put the IH aside while zoning on the cap while it is cooling. Think of the IH as a log... We're almost down to that size with a cord, and definitely ahead on the truly portable curve. And way ahead on heat reserve!

Bottom line; I call BS on not being able to eat your cake while heating it.

 

[Mono Loco]

With thoughts of some 19M's SS tips having issues with their grooves being out-of-spec (too shallow), I wonder if some of the 20M tips are out-of-spec and too meaty. I got one (haven't used it yet) and the overall look is not so impressive to me. The facets look pretty minimal, not cleanly defined ... maybe they are under-done. Perhaps there is too much material and the true design calls for deeper facets and therefore less mass. I wonder if George would share what the target (range/tolerances) weight is by design. I haven't weighed mine, but I am going to weight it and compare it to my M18. Less mass would make it behave more like the older models, right? Also, if the facets were more aggressive, they would allow more air flow. Perhaps these two user-complaints are related and simply a QC issue? What do I know - not MUCH!

 

[TommyDee]

These tips have 2 zones so overall mass is useless. One zone is for cooling that calls for surface area and the other is a heat load, around the tip looking for mass as well as surface area. The mass is increased on the '20. All the increase seems to be toward the cooling zone. And there may be an actual decrease in the mass zone.

The fact this slowness of heating has been noted on both IH and flame, there is something else going on here. I'm suggesting a sudden and large reduction in convection due to an increased overall average gap. But of course, this is just all academic speculation. I suspect that George has been after the '20-M's performance all along.

The shallow '19 is what my C-Vap is. Probably a pretty hot tip if it would draw

 

[Mono Loco]

... I suspect that George has been after the '20-M's performance all along.

Ahhh .. coincidence? I think NOT. Ancient Vaping theorists claim that ... Was it you who also proposed that maybe the 20M tip is engineered to work better specifically with the Apollo II than with other makes of IHs? Maybe there's some proprietary optimization pairings at work, to penalize the competition ... well, maybe not penalize, that's a strong word ... to favor their own product (I guess there's nothing wrong with that).

 

[TommyDee]

...and yes, I am that conspiracy's origin. I'll know if there is anything to it when the next module arrives. I'm reducing the power to half by reducing the coil and capacitance in half. Rumor has it that this raises the frequency of the device. This changes coupling characteristics.

 

[TommyDee]

Today I went to see if I could find this red switch - I got it at a local electronics surplus store.

They press-fit perfectly into the coil and the plastic housing won't short anything. This is just passively installed.

Turns out these are pretty popular on eBay. Got two orders in with a variety of colors. A lot cheaper than those fancy metal ones!
And I can vouch for their function with the mosfet switch and their position within the coil.

My DIY mail-order express seems to again be lagging

 

[TommyDee]

And a new day - Happy Friday everyone!

I see that Fluxer has taken to heart some of my more than vocal discussions here. The 'wand' option has been tackled and is in the process of getting available. Check out the Flix!

I did go and read the fine print. Apparently there is a relay in the circuit that will not allow for lower power in the 8V range. Can't be too difficult to bypass but that throws a monkey wrench into the works. I was really hoping this would support variable power down to a level lower than 10.5 volts.

Regardless, the Flix will be a happy new addition to the IH family of offerings!

And I did order the Apline 2020 for evaluation. Stay tuned for a teardown.