VapCap DIY Induction Heating : Bits 'n' pieces
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Okay @PKOK - thought of an interesting idea with my last burning of the index finger on the back of the glass vial. Temp sensors can be had in small 3-legged transistor packages. A friend also showed me how well UV glue works. I think I will try to put a temperature sensor on the backside of the bottom of the vial. If it survives there, it is a hook into temp control. That would make the vials much more useful and worth the $89/100. I'm sure they'd sell on eBay for whatever reason.
Once you connect a processor to a device like this, you got control. Having reliable, albeit delayed, temperature sensing means you can control temperature as well as reading it out on a display. I can say this, I can cause a blister within the 9 seconds it takes to heat the VC so it does give a good signal.
Anyone any good at PID control in arduino code?
@jr1xt1 - I am not a long time vapor or anything but I do like the induction heaters and their overall potential in this industry. I've been brain-storming potential products and integration ideas. I put into practice those things I have on hand. Now I need some UV glue
Once you connect a processor to a device like this, you got control. Having reliable, albeit delayed, temperature sensing means you can control temperature as well as reading it out on a display. I can say this, I can cause a blister within the 9 seconds it takes to heat the VC so it does give a good signal.
Anyone any good at PID control in arduino code?
@jr1xt1 - I am not a long time vapor or anything but I do like the induction heaters and their overall potential in this industry. I've been brain-storming potential products and integration ideas. I put into practice those things I have on hand. Now I need some UV glue
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PKOK
Well-Known Member
Thought you may find this vid interesting, it's very long but a lot of good links below and thru the group.
Ha this one too, the ultimate BMS https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/tiny-bms-s516-30a-16
if money is no object!
I was razzing you. I've never done arduino but it seems fascinating but without a mentor just too
detailed for applications I'd be interested in. If you intend to print an enclosure using displayed variable voltage wouldn't you get dialed in with use? The temperature that is.
What is the OD on those vials?
I've been meaning to pick up the UV glue as well, it just has a lot of uses and it's hard as rocks.
if money is no object!
I was razzing you. I've never done arduino but it seems fascinating but without a mentor just too
detailed for applications I'd be interested in. If you intend to print an enclosure using displayed variable voltage wouldn't you get dialed in with use? The temperature that is.
What is the OD on those vials?
I've been meaning to pick up the UV glue as well, it just has a lot of uses and it's hard as rocks.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Trying to keep me occupied 
Yea that e-vehicle battery tech is freaking awesome! Money there is a drop in the bucket compared to replacing cell-packs.
I has a crash course into Arduino and I'm hooked. Just another way to free your imagination knowing you're not just blowing smoke on capabilities when bringing things down to size. I got to see the light so to speak. I got a good taste of actually working with it. Now I know to hire someone to implement anything big.
I have Teflon tube between the coil and vial. I squish them with pliers and they come back to shape and center the vial, and the tubes provide stiction for placing the vial. Perfectly safe for even the dumbest move of leaving the thing on for an hour - [CHK] - Tested!
Well, the PID version of an IH is far away. I'm just crazy enough to envision the workings of such a device. Mod tech today is very adaptable as is IH tech. Induction heating has always been considered a brute force technology.
Okay, back to the wand in hand. Definitely picking up the vibe that small batteries won't cut it on any solution. I'll argue that later. But 800mah is just wimpy I guess. I agree that charging has to be easy. How hard it plugging in the cord when your done using? Its not a phone!
...and I digress 
Yea that e-vehicle battery tech is freaking awesome! Money there is a drop in the bucket compared to replacing cell-packs.I has a crash course into Arduino and I'm hooked. Just another way to free your imagination knowing you're not just blowing smoke on capabilities when bringing things down to size. I got to see the light so to speak. I got a good taste of actually working with it. Now I know to hire someone to implement anything big.
I have Teflon tube between the coil and vial. I squish them with pliers and they come back to shape and center the vial, and the tubes provide stiction for placing the vial. Perfectly safe for even the dumbest move of leaving the thing on for an hour - [CHK] - Tested!
Well, the PID version of an IH is far away. I'm just crazy enough to envision the workings of such a device. Mod tech today is very adaptable as is IH tech. Induction heating has always been considered a brute force technology.
Okay, back to the wand in hand. Definitely picking up the vibe that small batteries won't cut it on any solution. I'll argue that later. But 800mah is just wimpy I guess. I agree that charging has to be easy. How hard it plugging in the cord when your done using? Its not a phone!
...and I digress
PKOK
Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that after conditioning the batteries (two or three full cycles) that charging can
be like a phone. You could charge it after a session.
Although you wouldn't have to if ya went 3s with a second set in parallel.
PKOK
Well-Known Member
https://jimogaoshou.en.made-in-chin...artz-Tube-Reach-Certificate-High-Quality.html
There are a number of glass tube company's that may get you set up cheaper
There are a number of glass tube company's that may get you set up cheaper
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Li-ion is more forgiving that Ni-CAD or Ni-Mh. It has a very simple set of rules. I have never heard of needing to balance cells until I got here but I do accept the fact that running cells close to their limit does wear each cell slightly differently. Therefore, yes, smaller cells like the 800 mah packs can easily get out of sync.
I'm curious though; in hobby packs, the balancer is part of the charger, not the pack. In high level energy systems that cycle daily, that doesn't matter nearly so much.
I should do the calculation to see how long a balancer needs to drain a cell to 2.5V.
I looked at lab vials too but they are very long. The dome is not conducive to thermal transfer from the cap either. If we do something with this, getting the vials is not an issue. But in the meantime for DIY peeps, a solution should be found. What's your plan to set the depth of the VC?
I'm curious though; in hobby packs, the balancer is part of the charger, not the pack. In high level energy systems that cycle daily, that doesn't matter nearly so much.
I should do the calculation to see how long a balancer needs to drain a cell to 2.5V.
I looked at lab vials too but they are very long. The dome is not conducive to thermal transfer from the cap either. If we do something with this, getting the vials is not an issue. But in the meantime for DIY peeps, a solution should be found. What's your plan to set the depth of the VC?
PKOK
Well-Known Member
Remember I'm in an enclosure so once I place the IH & coil the height of coil is set. I then place the glass
and heat barrier in the center, done deal. The coil can then be moved up or down by bending if required.
I get good results with 6-8 coils approx the size of the cap with the end being even to slightly below the bottom coil. 1st click approx 10sec, 2nd click 11 or 12sec and or course 2nd draw much shorter.
I too like to draw real time but all that goes by feel.
I'm very interested in those hobby pack chargers especially the clones because I'm cheap
and heat barrier in the center, done deal. The coil can then be moved up or down by bending if required.
I get good results with 6-8 coils approx the size of the cap with the end being even to slightly below the bottom coil. 1st click approx 10sec, 2nd click 11 or 12sec and or course 2nd draw much shorter.
I too like to draw real time but all that goes by feel.
I'm very interested in those hobby pack chargers especially the clones because I'm cheap
TommyDee
Vaporitor
The price of DIY is remembering where you put the stuff last time you played with it. I'm starting to loose track. This is scary 
Something like this would work. Basically you feed the unit 4 wires instead of 2;
I know the intelligence is over the top. But there seem to be those of that ilk here on FC. And I appreciate temp control on my LB. My first goal is to have a working prototype handheld one-piece ReHeater and see if anyone is interested in some beta primarily of the function but also the utility. This is while I am waiting for the bits to do the variable IH, which will be a corded unit. These are both completely outside the current maker space which I am vowing to do. And furthermore, I invite any of the makers to join the conversation. A proper implementation should include a circuit board design. That too is easy enough for me to do.
You ride the IH with 3 cells? Hats off to you
I've learned to use the 3S with 2-3 second bursts. It is so easy to snooze on the button 
With 2 it is like a very slow rocket, it gives you teases, then taste, and suddenly you taste a cloud invasion with a super palette of flavor soon followed by the heavier aged barrel flavor. If the load breaths well, you can modulate the temperature with your breath and hold the button. I find myself running the load too cool to get the last little bit. That's why I want a little more voltage.
So you have a tight coil. Are you using the original wire? Do you have the means to get a current reading along with a voltage reading with and without the VC installed? I don't know yet how to consider the impact of the coil change. It is basically a resistor but I don't know what the allowable range is. I have a coil of 15 awg wire that I'll be using when I make custom coils. I don't know what to expect.
Clicks time is different for every cap and coil position so timing is a tough comparison. I think both of mine go to 2 clicks in 10 seconds. Sounds like mine is inserted about where yours is; 10 coils and the cap is flush to the bottom.
Something like this would work. Basically you feed the unit 4 wires instead of 2;
I know the intelligence is over the top. But there seem to be those of that ilk here on FC. And I appreciate temp control on my LB. My first goal is to have a working prototype handheld one-piece ReHeater and see if anyone is interested in some beta primarily of the function but also the utility. This is while I am waiting for the bits to do the variable IH, which will be a corded unit. These are both completely outside the current maker space which I am vowing to do. And furthermore, I invite any of the makers to join the conversation. A proper implementation should include a circuit board design. That too is easy enough for me to do.
You ride the IH with 3 cells? Hats off to you
I've learned to use the 3S with 2-3 second bursts. It is so easy to snooze on the button With 2 it is like a very slow rocket, it gives you teases, then taste, and suddenly you taste a cloud invasion with a super palette of flavor soon followed by the heavier aged barrel flavor. If the load breaths well, you can modulate the temperature with your breath and hold the button. I find myself running the load too cool to get the last little bit. That's why I want a little more voltage.So you have a tight coil. Are you using the original wire? Do you have the means to get a current reading along with a voltage reading with and without the VC installed? I don't know yet how to consider the impact of the coil change. It is basically a resistor but I don't know what the allowable range is. I have a coil of 15 awg wire that I'll be using when I make custom coils. I don't know what to expect.
Clicks time is different for every cap and coil position so timing is a tough comparison. I think both of mine go to 2 clicks in 10 seconds. Sounds like mine is inserted about where yours is; 10 coils and the cap is flush to the bottom.
PKOK
Well-Known Member
I haven't built the battery version yet remember ?
Anyway my desktop is powered by a 12v, 6amp power supply. The coil is original with a coil removed from each side but I didn't remove any wire nor did I change the diameter much. No I don't have the means to take those readings unless I can do it with a cheap multi meter.
There is a good discussion on the subject in pipes "VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use"
PAGE 7. He's using Remington Brand, Mr C uses a brand that was too expensive because ya had to buy 5lbs, I bought a spool of Temco because small spools were available and it matched the specs of his wire, both at 16ga.
Well TD it's just you and me so far so that make you the electrician
I was going to start by using the info he had on pg 7 for the wire length and 10 flat wraps with the 16ga should fit the cap without being too large.
Anyway go back and read through a couple of pages there, may help you with your diagnostics may not. You have 15ga copper Magnet Wire 200°C ? If so we'll have a good start.
The coil size, my new glass is 16mm with a little Kapton tape where the coil will ride along with the spring back will make it 17mm+.
Anyway my desktop is powered by a 12v, 6amp power supply. The coil is original with a coil removed from each side but I didn't remove any wire nor did I change the diameter much. No I don't have the means to take those readings unless I can do it with a cheap multi meter. There is a good discussion on the subject in pipes "VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use"
PAGE 7. He's using Remington Brand, Mr C uses a brand that was too expensive because ya had to buy 5lbs, I bought a spool of Temco because small spools were available and it matched the specs of his wire, both at 16ga.
Well TD it's just you and me so far so that make you the electrician
I was going to start by using the info he had on pg 7 for the wire length and 10 flat wraps with the 16ga should fit the cap without being too large. Anyway go back and read through a couple of pages there, may help you with your diagnostics may not. You have 15ga copper Magnet Wire 200°C ? If so we'll have a good start.
The coil size, my new glass is 16mm with a little Kapton tape where the coil will ride along with the spring back will make it 17mm+.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Thanks for reminding me. No, you haven't changed the resistance. The difference is that your load will be a little lower as you impart a little less energy to the VC. Maybe 10%, if that.
15 gauge 200'C magnet wire. It was the trade-off for width I wanted and number of turns. Resistance should be close. That will be harder to measure but a meter will tell me what I need to know.
I'll have to review some of Pipes' work.
15 gauge 200'C magnet wire. It was the trade-off for width I wanted and number of turns. Resistance should be close. That will be harder to measure but a meter will tell me what I need to know.
I'll have to review some of Pipes' work.
PKOK
Well-Known Member
HUH ? We are talking about my current set up correct? I'm not following, I do full loads that can combust if left much past click.
Oh, you must be talking the 16ga, the 10 wraps should cover the load if sprung out a bit as I do now.
Plus won't batteries give me a hotter load as well?
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Nono! Sorry - I mean the current draw on your current modified coil should be a little less than mine, by maybe 10% by uncoiling each end coil.
The vapcap is also a 'load' in the sense since that is part of the circuit. You wouldn't notice 10% variation. I don't have the tools to do any serious analysis either.
Anyway, this gives me an idea of the performance you have with yours at this moment.
On another note, got the first housing printing for the 2s IH. With protected cells I am liking it more and more.
The vapcap is also a 'load' in the sense since that is part of the circuit. You wouldn't notice 10% variation. I don't have the tools to do any serious analysis either.
Anyway, this gives me an idea of the performance you have with yours at this moment.
On another note, got the first housing printing for the 2s IH. With protected cells I am liking it more and more.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
I've never been able to justify an oscilloscope. I'm dangerous enough with electronics.Right now the housing is just enough to make it safer in the pocket. Utilitarian in that it will finally be a one-piece handheld unit. Need to add a few features but I'm on the right track.
If you want to start a new hobby, 3D printing is a fine hobby to get hooked on. You'll find a 1001 ways to improve your printer. I kid you not!
PKOK
Well-Known Member
Oh I can imagine, I've a few dozen past hobbies sitting in boxes in the garage.
You mentioned power supplies once, I'd like to have one of those DIY or from China. The reason it's not on my bench now is I still learning to use a multimeter! Electronics is fun though. I wish I'd picked it up at an earlier age.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Radio Shack I'm of the same mechanical ilk as you when it comes to making a living. Its mostly wiring harnesses laid down on fiberglass and untangled. Components are little black magic boxes filled with encapsulated smoke that pump juice in various ways. Just about everything in electronics has a similar analogy in a mechanical system.
I'm of the same mechanical ilk as you when it comes to making a living. Its mostly wiring harnesses laid down on fiberglass and untangled. Components are little black magic boxes filled with encapsulated smoke that pump juice in various ways. Just about everything in electronics has a similar analogy in a mechanical system.
PKOK
Well-Known Member
Well mechanically as you know it was all tolerance stack-ups, form, fit and function.
Very early in my career for a short time I wrote shop instructions for some very large wiring harnesses and did some electrical drafting but that's all a distant memory.
I agree electrical you have to understand the routing & how components affect the circuit which I'm groping with now but to analyze or diagnose..... I'm too old.
But we should be able to make a few innovative heaters' huh!
Very early in my career for a short time I wrote shop instructions for some very large wiring harnesses and did some electrical drafting but that's all a distant memory.
I agree electrical you have to understand the routing & how components affect the circuit which I'm groping with now but to analyze or diagnose..... I'm too old.
But we should be able to make a few innovative heaters' huh!
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Took 2 tries but not to shabby
Needs a ton of Shoe-Goo and some wiring but I like it. The cell case is a tried and tested design. This is such a simple layout on a PC board!
Size; 3-1/2" x 2-3/8" x 1-1/2"
What do you think?
------------------------
I'm getting slow. The temp sensor on the end of the vial won't work. There are two ways to adjust the VC position in the coil - one for thin stems where you rest on the bottom. But for larger stems that don't fit the vial, the stem becomes the rest. Now you see why I take my time with these things. I think for product we can find a blower to make a nice custom funnel style 'cup'.
Needs a ton of Shoe-Goo and some wiring but I like it. The cell case is a tried and tested design. This is such a simple layout on a PC board!
Size; 3-1/2" x 2-3/8" x 1-1/2"
What do you think?
------------------------
I'm getting slow. The temp sensor on the end of the vial won't work. There are two ways to adjust the VC position in the coil - one for thin stems where you rest on the bottom. But for larger stems that don't fit the vial, the stem becomes the rest. Now you see why I take my time with these things. I think for product we can find a blower to make a nice custom funnel style 'cup'.
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TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
PKOK
Well-Known Member
Sweet! That came out nice! We go off on so many tangents you're gonna have to tell me about it.
The smaller enclosure on the right, is that a battery tray? 3s? Probably not because somethings on the end
of that cord or dongle. You going to cap the enclosure? Why does everyone want to use shoe-goo?
Sorry to pound ya with questions, it's a perty rig buddy, just kickin yer tires.
Nice shape and size for live draw but your gonna have to set it down to finish it
Oh-Oh is that the 15ga?
The smaller enclosure on the right, is that a battery tray? 3s? Probably not because somethings on the end
of that cord or dongle. You going to cap the enclosure? Why does everyone want to use shoe-goo?
Sorry to pound ya with questions, it's a perty rig buddy, just kickin yer tires.
Nice shape and size for live draw but your gonna have to set it down to finish it
Oh-Oh is that the 15ga?
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Thanks! This is still concept modeling but I've been wanting to see what a small IH handheld could actually look like. Now I know the minimal footprint... or close anyway.
So we can rate these by features. This is a 2S protected 10-amp 18650 - Conventional IH & coil; gathered - w/ mosfet switch and momentary push-button. Reoriented core components.
I took the 2S 18650 battery design I made a while back and attached the IH housing to it. These are home made clips of copper strip. They do well with current so this works for this little excursion. The protected cell status is the whole of the safety entourage. Excessive holding of the fire button is considered abusing the device
Due diligence clause adds a thermal fuse somewhere.
ShoeGoo is RTV with a twist - it comes off! It is literally a liquid rubber - I take that back, it is actually an epoxy that takes 10 years to cure. The former is what makes SHoeGoo so easy to turn to. If you care about the substrate, this gives you a chance to change your mind. The ladder I learned from restoring a long-stored $RC car with electronics ShoeGoo'd in place. The ShoeGoo turned crystalline like an amber colored epoxy. Probably 15 years since application. Keep that in mind if you ever find yourself experimenting with it.
This is my proof of concept model. Tire kicking will be met with flat tires but we have spares. I am really seeing the industrial design concept that allows for options here. Picture the circuit board as carrying everything needed - just wire in a switch and add power. The coil and button are optimized in location and then put this assembly is a stand-alone housing. Now optionally attach your power source of choice. The backside of the PCB has exposed gold pads for a clip-on battery pack or contact paddle. Remember this is a full power IH. So in the default hand held unit, it has a battery pack that holds 2 protected 10-18650 amp vaping cells. Should be provided but certainly not proprietary. This pack has spring contacts rated for 10 amps and just slips onto the device to give it power. This image I just put in your mind is the base VC-ReHeat'R. It will rip a load in one draw if you are so inclined. And it can also waft the delicate pallete of terps from the buds n super long draws. There is an electrifying sense that tells you what is being drawn. WHen that trigger goes off, get ready! But that is only the base unit. And yes, you definitely -get to- set it down for that last bit of the draw, relaxing with your VC. Of course, you didn't -have- to pick it up to begin with![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
To finish the concept offering, next is the base station power unit. It will provide 7-12 volts on a supple cord and a readout of power. This cord will clip to the housing similarly as the 2S pack did. Probably a paddle with a receptacle from the base station. That paddle could have the local fuse in it. And of course, if there is a 2S pack that clips on, there can be a 3S pack that clips on. I think 3S is a different form-factor all together or the 3S takes on a base station-light role.
Conserving the 15 gauge for when new boards arrive.
So we can rate these by features. This is a 2S protected 10-amp 18650 - Conventional IH & coil; gathered - w/ mosfet switch and momentary push-button. Reoriented core components.
I took the 2S 18650 battery design I made a while back and attached the IH housing to it. These are home made clips of copper strip. They do well with current so this works for this little excursion. The protected cell status is the whole of the safety entourage. Excessive holding of the fire button is considered abusing the device
Due diligence clause adds a thermal fuse somewhere. ShoeGoo is RTV with a twist - it comes off! It is literally a liquid rubber - I take that back, it is actually an epoxy that takes 10 years to cure. The former is what makes SHoeGoo so easy to turn to. If you care about the substrate, this gives you a chance to change your mind. The ladder I learned from restoring a long-stored $RC car with electronics ShoeGoo'd in place. The ShoeGoo turned crystalline like an amber colored epoxy. Probably 15 years since application. Keep that in mind if you ever find yourself experimenting with it.
This is my proof of concept model. Tire kicking will be met with flat tires but we have spares. I am really seeing the industrial design concept that allows for options here. Picture the circuit board as carrying everything needed - just wire in a switch and add power. The coil and button are optimized in location and then put this assembly is a stand-alone housing. Now optionally attach your power source of choice. The backside of the PCB has exposed gold pads for a clip-on battery pack or contact paddle. Remember this is a full power IH. So in the default hand held unit, it has a battery pack that holds 2 protected 10-18650 amp vaping cells. Should be provided but certainly not proprietary. This pack has spring contacts rated for 10 amps and just slips onto the device to give it power. This image I just put in your mind is the base VC-ReHeat'R. It will rip a load in one draw if you are so inclined. And it can also waft the delicate pallete of terps from the buds n super long draws. There is an electrifying sense that tells you what is being drawn. WHen that trigger goes off, get ready! But that is only the base unit. And yes, you definitely -get to- set it down for that last bit of the draw, relaxing with your VC. Of course, you didn't -have- to pick it up to begin with
To finish the concept offering, next is the base station power unit. It will provide 7-12 volts on a supple cord and a readout of power. This cord will clip to the housing similarly as the 2S pack did. Probably a paddle with a receptacle from the base station. That paddle could have the local fuse in it. And of course, if there is a 2S pack that clips on, there can be a 3S pack that clips on. I think 3S is a different form-factor all together or the 3S takes on a base station-light role.
Conserving the 15 gauge for when new boards arrive.