That may be true, however I still maintain that the Sublimator (and supreme 3) can produce a different specific type of vapour that cannot be replicated in any of the other dozens of vapes i've ever tried. It's like dabbing flowers essentially, and it's the only way I roll now....between the Sublimator and Supreme, and an enail....everything else (including my Grasshoppers) are simply just lightweight toys to me.
I also completely agree with the absorption through the mucosa membranes, I can definitely feel a major instant level of medication, especially because these vapes are so smooth, that it feels like I can hold the vape in my lungs and mouth forever.
Still gotta put some time in and read the twax thread completely!
Ok, so I know what you are talking about man, I owned a sublimator too. The reason you get the huge clouds as far as I can see it, is the tight hole at the bottom of the atomizer changes the pressure flow and increases the volume of clouds to insane density. Any other vaporizer so designed can do this. IME, a good comparison vape was the grasshopper. My grasshopper gave the same kinda hits as my sub (we all know how much the quality and performance and failure rates vary on GH's though so I whole-heartedly believe that yours is outperformed by your sub).
However, I got rid of the sub for a number of reasons:
- It does not sit stable enough on the PTFE adapters, especially when it gets gunked with reclaim
- The heater stand is terrible. It falls over left and right. Something that holds something so hot should not behave like this!!!
- The Titanium machining left sharp edges all over the handles that cut me horribly many times when using the device.
- Dabbing on it was overwhelmingly wasteful unless you did small dabs into the holes. The ridges in the dabmaster still led to substantial trails of vapor that didn't get into the atomizer. The new nail attachment doesn't seem to have this problem anymore but IIRC that isn't so good for flowers? The holes on the dabmaster and apollo would get filled with nasty gunk that was near impossible to fully clean.
- The Monkey Controller is way too fucking short with the cable. This unit is a giant hunk of scolding metal. It should be fucking securely stationed and not liable to be dragged away by the power cable and controller!
- The old 1 hour timer was the straw that broke the camels back on my XLR 2.0 dabmaster. It took most of that fucking time to warm up and heatsoak the atomizer and then the thing wants to shut itself off? WTF? Admittedly, the new 3 hour timer makes this somewhat bearable but the fact that this unit cannot simply be left on 24/7 tells me that it has a heater cartridge or some other component that isn't up to the job. Enrico has said this in the past that the old units used to burn out too quick before they started using cut off timers.
- I had a large number of component issues, I needed replacement monkey controllers (2x), a replacement heater and a replacement power adapter
- It would get impossibly filthy very quickly and be very, very difficult to clean fully without oxidizing metal by torching. I regularly see sublimators with a build-up of reclaim at the base of the atomizer that looks like rust! The adjacent 'sublimate' (AKA reclaim) was nasty and ruined beyond salvaging.
The sub gives the biggest flower hits you're going to find (the custom d-nail lotus adapter bowl design made with cheap GonG adapters that I described in another thread will give similarly large clouds btw, also tastes much better, costs a hell of a lot less, uses glass for the bowl instead of scolding titanium and stays put with better stand options). But I would not compare sub hits to dabs except for the clouds. A dab is much, much easier on the throat and lungs and the effects are completely different from extracts to flowers. The sub makes flowers cause extra somnolence/dizziness IME (but doesn't make these effects last longer, keeping flower use in the sub useless for sleep medicine for my needs) and also due to the large, long rips you run out of breath and get choked out some which I really don't wanna do on the regular.
You can also stop for breath part way through leaving a carb cap on a nail whereas the Sub is streaming vapor out the top when you do the same with a flower hit (this would not be so likely to happen with the new sub nail and carb cap design, which again IIRC isn't for flowers so much).
If you want undoubtedly the biggest flower vape hits ever, the Sub is one of the only options as you say, I agree, there is nearly no comparison for the kind of hit you get from flowers, but damn are there a lot of trade-offs to get you there! Nothing against the sub overall, it deserves credit for bringing vaporizing to another level before other vapes could do so, but IMO and IME it is jenky and poorly executed in the above ways!
@biohacker what you describe sounds pretty appealing to me...
Do you think Herborizer TI / Twax / Errlectric Herbnail can have the same "special effect" or is there the line between "normal" Heavy-hitters and the "Flower-Dabbing" Devices?
I do not believe that the errlectric will do the same sized hits. The Twax may, as it uses more metal and would have more conductive/radiant heat in the mix than the errlectric. The D-nail lotus adapter in stock configuration will not be able to pull off the same results as the sub at all, but with the custom glass bowl (meaning you only need to buy the d-nail heater and make the bowl with cheap GonGs) it can give insane clouds like the sub, without most of the above trade-offs and at a much lower price - it also works with concentrates of all kinds in this configuration, even non full melt hash!!!
I used to think the sub was the best hit I'd ever had for non-full melt, but the d-nail lotus with custom bowl wins hands down - SO MUCH BETTER FLAVOR!!! I find that the sub starts to taste very samey very quickly as it gets quickly gunked up. Especially if you are dabbing and using it for flower. The dabs taste like the previous flower hits etc.
IMHO there is definitely a big line. I personally have not experienced flower dabs from any other vape than the SUB/SUP. I have owned the Herborizer (not Ti) and it's an amazing device, and the Ti is next up on my VAS, but it doesn't do what the SUB/SUP can do with this biogasification voodoo. All the other convection vapes are great, but they aren't at the "flower dab" level.
Not sure on the herbnail because I haven't tried one but my feeling is no, it won't have that same effect.
The SUPREME is EXTRA special in this aspect, because it can obliterate flower without grinding. I've done coarse grind in the Sub, and it was okay but I doubt it will do budlets like the supreme.
It's definitely a good time to be alive!
See my above comments on the d-nail lotus flower adapter, whose vortexing convective air in the insanely cheap glass setup I described elsewhere gets dab-sized rips from flower and more tastily at that! I recently saw video of a twax giving a rip that I would say appears to compare to a sub rip too, but have not used this one personally so will withhold judgement.
Also, man we need to stop using the term 'biogasification'
it is like calling vaping 'fracking'!
Who cares what the marketing or science is, as long as you and I understand that it's different from all other vapes for the most part. I would be able to detect this vapour in a blind taste test! lol It's just that smooth, tasty, and effective.... the size of the clouds are such surreal. I'm loving the Sup and Sub equally at this point, and have my eye on the Eliminator, which is like a Sup without a thermometer... but I just have to check it out!
No shitty timer + longer cords makes it much better already 
