The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie

kokolokokolokon

Well-Known Member
From what I've read, it's rated at 120w, a bit like the Wand, isn't it?
In theory the wand can reach almost 100W with the tempest. But it doesn’t last much. The point on the flare is to get a solid 105/110W more time than 100W on the wand (and it would be a bit more powerful, which is great). And the chance to reach it to 120W to emulate the torch even more.

Brenyo told us the max power a IH should have for the tempest is 150W, so i suppose the sweet spot would be like 125W.

I hope it works great with the tempest since it would be a solid option, more than the wand.

I spend ages writing a "how to" with the Forge and the Tempest/TA today using debug mode...

I read it, it is great af. Fabulous work! And it helps to understand how the forge works in general :clap::rockon:
 

rebelFarmer

Well-Known Member
Do we know what the new induction layer does for the tempest in the upgrade kit? I am also thinking of getting the flare, and am wondering if the induction layer is to make it easier to function in these kinds of heaters?
 
What is minimum and maximum chamber size for 1 heat cycle?
How does taste compare to Venty / Solo / TM2 / M7?

Does it roast evenly? Anyone can show abv?

Considering this instead of Solo 3 which I had problem with chemical smell from the oven.
 
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modernblacksmith,
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rebelFarmer

Well-Known Member
All I remember was that the Flare was 3x18650 instead of the Wands 2x18650, the Flare has an adjustable wattage (but I don't remember the range) and from the video I saw it was working with an OG TA so I have some hope that it will be more powerful than the wand - It won't be more powerful than the Forge but it should be a more affordable option that should work for the Tempest.

I spend ages writing a "how to" with the Forge and the Tempest/TA today using debug mode... while I was doing it I was doing bowl after bowl and I sort of lost count... I haven't don't that in a while...
Any chance of a link to that write up? Checked the post history but missed it somehow, and I value your insight!

I just ordered the flare on the pre order, will update with how it goes. I did put an old FMJ on the cap and it measures near the same as the dani and seemingly the new firmware works for the anvil, so will update once it lands
:)
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
What is minimum and maximum chamber size for 1 heat cycle?
How does taste compare to Venty / Solo / TM2 / M7?

Does it roast evenly? Anyone can show abv?

Considering this instead of Solo 3 which I had problem with chemical smell from the oven.
Half bowl is 0.075g. Full bowl is 0.15g. You can fill it with less and it still performs perfectly. You can also cram a little more in with a tight pack. EDIT - The bowl has an adjustable screen, with two levels. You don't need to buy extra bowl sizes like the Anvil for example.

We are not supposed to directly compare with other vapes. I will pm you. Tempest tastes really good though. It should not be a concern. It's often the first thing new users report, that it tastes really good.
 
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sadf

Well-Known Member
I recently got Blazer Firefox 2.0, which I believe is inferior to OG model.
Got a refund for it and torch left for free, as seller was having pics and description of OG, but shipping 2.0 lol.
It does the job done tho...

What's the difference, and do you know where to find information on it? Web searches have turned up nothing for me.

I just bought a Firefox the other day, I assume it's the new version since it's purple and the old listings for them lack color options, but I'm curious about what difference there is in performance.
 

DoubleM&M

New Member
It's on their UK website that the tempest is just going to be released on July, and the EU website is going to open when the tempest is released for pre-order
 
DoubleM&M,
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VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
Any chance of a link to that write up? Checked the post history but missed it somehow, and I value your insight!
I published and then removed it because I felt... silly... but because you asked here is what I wrote, I was asked to explain how I determine what settings I want to use in the Forge for the Tempest and Thermal Accumulator.

I'll focus on how how I worked out my Tempest setting & squeeze in the TA at the end.

The first step is to work out where on your device you want to heat and therefore how deep you want to put the device into the Forge's induction zone.


After setting the position, we then have to decide how we want to heat the Tempest. Do we want to heat up the Tempest quickly, which leads to a convection heavy extraction with a shorter session time; or do we want to heat the Tempest in a “low and slow” style; this style of heat up tends to increase both the session time, the radiant heat and the amount of heat, in the form of conduction, that the Tempest’s bowl experiences (this second style is my favourite and results in a full extraction). This translates into a power level setting. The higher the power level, the more heat is applied by the Forge to the device, which generally means a faster heat up time. Where as a low power setting, slows down how fast the device heats up, by lowering the amount of heat that is generated, by lowering the power that is applied per second.

How is all this useful?

Well - I noticed with a bit of trial and error; that when you enter debug mode on the Forge it maintains the power level that you select. So I set up a bunch of profiles to enable me to easily test different power levels. If you are on a profile that has the power level set at 50%; when you enter debug mode, the Forge stays on that power level which is evident in joules per second being applied to the device as below :

3000@100% - 233 joules per second
3000@75% - 172 joules per second
3000@50% - 124 joules per second
3000@25% - 62 joules per second


The above values are examples I generated when putting the Tempest into the Forge with a fully charged 3.0ah battery, the exact number of joules per second depends on the batteries charge and the device its coupling with. We can use what we have above to now try and dial in the setting’s for the Tempest.

I like the Tempest best when I do a "low and slow" heat to just after the double click. To create a “low and slow” profile on the Forge for the Tempest we pick a low power setting - I'm going to use an example of 25% - and then we switch into debug mode and put the Tempest in to heat and take note of the total number of joules of energy that is required to get the Tempest to "double click".


In the example above I’ve used the devices click discs to tell me when the device has reached the desired temperature. In this case I waited until the second click; which gives me a reading of 2428j at the power level of 25%. Now I can set my Forge to the value displayed in the previous video; however as I want to go past the "double click" I’m going to use the setting of 2450@25%.


As you can see the setting 2450@25% causes a double click. This becomes my starting point for trying to work out what my preferred setting is with the Tempest - and its actually much higher at 3000@25% but that's very specificlly tailored for how I heat the Tempest and the specific depth I place the Tempest in the Forge. I will share a photo later as I have only 5 pieces of media :).


** This part talks about using the same method for the TA in the Forge **

Now this is great for devices that have temperature feedback like click discs but what about something like the Thermal Accumulator which is unregulated. The easiest way to tell if the Thermal Accumulator has heated to the required temperature is to go based on the amount of vapour that is being produced, after we remove it from the Forge and take a draw. The other thing we have to consider is the Forge’s safety settings, the main one being the “Device Overheat” threshold, which triggers when the coil reaches 100c; because of the nature of the balls within the TA, which have a very low thermal conductivity, and the width of the TA which has a wider diameter, a lot of the heat thats being generated is bounced back onto the coils. For this reason we must also monitor the coil temperature to ensure we stay below the 100c threshold when trying to determine what setting we are going to use.

Anyway, here is an example

In this video it took 3422j @ 50% power to start getting to a level of vapour production that was adequate. The coil however was very hot at 97c from a 22c starting point. In other words the coils temperature increased by 75c which means that if the ambient temperature is higher than 25c you can't use that setting as the device will overheat. So I will repeat this process at different power levels until I’m finally happy with the resultant vapour and AVB.

And that's my little rant about how I tailored the Forge to my main devices the Tempest and Thermal Accumulator

** Mods, this is primarily about using the Tempest in the Forge which is why its here, if you want me to do something different let me know.
 
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BushRanger

Hit It & Quit It
What's the difference, and do you know where to find information on it? Web searches have turned up nothing for me.
You should check the last two pages in torch thread, where are my ramblings about it.
I'd say main differences are poorer quality build and dual flame feature (which I find unnecessary, normal flame on mine doesn't even work). Red buttons/switches have weak/faded color to it.
Could be also that flame is slightly weaker on very high setting, and non existent on very low setting.
It does heat the Tempest nicely tho...
 
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GnarlyVandal

Well-Known Member
I published and then removed it because I felt... silly... but because you asked here is what I wrote, I was asked to explain how I determine what settings I want to use in the Forge for the Tempest and Thermal Accumulator.

I'll focus on how how I worked out my Tempest setting & squeeze in the TA at the end.

The first step is to work out where on your device you want to heat and therefore how deep you want to put the device into the Forge's induction zone.


After setting the position, we then have to decide how we want to heat the Tempest. Do we want to heat up the Tempest quickly, which leads to a convection heavy extraction with a shorter session time; or do we want to heat the Tempest in a “low and slow” style; this style of heat up tends to increase both the session time, the radiant heat and the amount of heat, in the form of conduction, that the Tempest’s bowl experiences (this second style is my favourite and results in a full extraction). This translates into a power level setting. The higher the power level, the more heat is applied by the Forge to the device, which generally means a faster heat up time. Where as a low power setting, slows down how fast the device heats up, by lowering the amount of heat that is generated, by lowering the power that is applied per second.

How is all this useful?

Well - I noticed with a bit of trial and error; that when you enter debug mode on the Forge it maintains the power level that you select. So I set up a bunch of profiles to enable me to easily test different power levels. If you are on a profile that has the power level set at 50%; when you enter debug mode, the Forge stays on that power level which is evident in joules per second being applied to the device as below :

3000@100% - 233 joules per second
3000@75% - 172 joules per second
3000@50% - 124 joules per second
3000@25% - 62 joules per second


The above values are examples I generated when putting the Tempest into the Forge with a fully charged 3.0ah battery, the exact number of joules per second depends on the batteries charge and the device its coupling with. We can use what we have above to now try and dial in the setting’s for the Tempest.

I like the Tempest best when I do a "low and slow" heat to just after the double click. To create a “low and slow” profile on the Forge for the Tempest we pick a low power setting - I'm going to use an example of 25% - and then we switch into debug mode and put the Tempest in to heat and take note of the total number of joules of energy that is required to get the Tempest to "double click".


In the example above I’ve used the devices click discs to tell me when the device has reached the desired temperature. In this case I waited until the second click; which gives me a reading of 2428j at the power level of 25%. Now I can set my Forge to the value displayed in the previous video; however as I want to go past the "double click" I’m going to use the setting of 2450@25%.


As you can see the setting 2450@25% causes a double click. This becomes my starting point for trying to work out what my preferred setting is with the Tempest - and its actually much higher at 3000@25% but that's very specificlly tailored for how I heat the Tempest and the specific depth I place the Tempest in the Forge. I will share a photo later as I have only 5 pieces of media :).


** This part talks about using the same method for the TA in the Forge **

Now this is great for devices that have temperature feedback like click discs but what about something like the Thermal Accumulator which is unregulated. The easiest way to tell if the Thermal Accumulator has heated to the required temperature is to go based on the amount of vapour that is being produced, after we remove it from the Forge and take a draw. The other thing we have to consider is the Forge’s safety settings, the main one being the “Device Overheat” threshold, which triggers when the coil reaches 100c; because of the nature of the balls within the TA, which have a very low thermal conductivity, and the width of the TA which has a wider diameter, a lot of the heat thats being generated is bounced back onto the coils. For this reason we must also monitor the coil temperature to ensure we stay below the 100c threshold when trying to determine what setting we are going to use.

Anyway, here is an example

In this video it took 3422j @ 50% power to start getting to a level of vapour production that was adequate. The coil however was very hot at 97c from a 22c starting point. In other words the coils temperature increased by 75c which means that if the ambient temperature is higher than 25c you can't use that setting as the device will overheat. So I will repeat this process at different power levels until I’m finally happy with the resultant vapour and AVB.

And that's my little rant about how I tailored the Forge to my main devices the Tempest and Thermal Accumulator

** Mods, this is primarily about using the Tempest in the Forge which is why its here, if you want me to do something different let me know.
Great write up! Very informative. Would be interesting to see if the flare has a similar issue with the coil getting too hot and shutting off. I guess it’s preferable to ruining the induction heater though.

And glad to know you’re pestering the flare guys as well, I’m hoping to pick one of those up later in the year, after the first round of sales have been consumer tested.

How easy would you say it is to get a complete extraction, like your ‘low and slow’ method above, is with a torch? Would this be simply lowering the torch a little below the 2 lines to add more conduction, or using a single flame to heat slower?
 

Marok

Well-Known Member
will the .EU page accept our coupons from delayed reload shippings last year? And maybe silly question , but will it ship without the need to pay import tax to EU, so prices are final for buyers?
 

Brenyo

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
will the .EU page accept our coupons from delayed reload shippings last year?
No unfortunately because they're resellers.

And maybe silly question , but will it ship without the need to pay import tax to EU, so prices are final for buyers?
Yes, prices are final with tax included. Shipping from Croatia, should arrive in 2-3 days within the EU if I remember correctly.
 

DaBouse

Well-Known Member
No unfortunately because they're resellers.


Yes, prices are final with tax included. Shipping from Croatia, should arrive in 2-3 days within the EU if I remember correctly.

Is there a particular heat source recommended with the tempest? It looks like a lot of beta users are using the wand. I haven’t spoken with anyone who has tested the tempest with the flare yet, but I have high hopes.

Do you recommend an IH like the wand over a torch?
 
DaBouse,

btka

Well-Known Member
Any chance of a link to that write up? Checked the post history but missed it somehow, and I value your insight!

I just ordered the flare on the pre order, will update with how it goes. I did put an old FMJ on the cap and it measures near the same as the dani and seemingly the new firmware works for the anvil, so will update once it lands
:)
Where you can pre order the flare?
 
btka,

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I'm tempted to order the flare, but I'm gonna wait until a few more people have them and make their opinions known. While the wave isn't an outstanding IH in my view, it does seem to work well enough with the Tempest that I'm not driven to get an alternative. The wave is my 3rd IH and I would really like to avoid another acquisition syndrome. ;)
 

rebelFarmer

Well-Known Member
Where you can pre order the flare?
As stated below,Wesley Pipes :)
Wesley Pipes had a preorder open, but it recently closed. The stock should be available for regular orders towards the end of the month per their product page.

I'm tempted to order the flare, but I'm gonna wait until a few more people have them and make their opinions known. While the wave isn't an outstanding IH in my view, it does seem to work well enough with the Tempest that I'm not driven to get an alternative. The wave is my 3rd IH and I would really like to avoid another acquisition syndrome. ;)
Yeah.... I dont mind the wand really but want more power and speed (arguably a constant for me :p ) I figured worst case it works better with a fmj or something on it and I am happy enough with that! Understanding is that changes were made for it to function better with the anvil, so that also nudged me. But really chatting with Wes from Wesley Pipes, he was just a decent ould sort so I figured fuck it! Let's roll the dice. I actually have one of the early early wands that I have been running since it dropped, so it owes me nothing :)
 

eyevape

👀
@Brenyo Can you tell how long it takes from the final release of the Tempest to having it available at german retailers? I’m thinking of verdampftnochmal.de, as they’re offering the Tempest and that's where I buy most of my stuff.
 

HaggisHunter

Well-Known Member
Is there a particular heat source recommended with the tempest? It looks like a lot of beta users are using the wand. I haven’t spoken with anyone who has tested the tempest with the flare yet, but I have high hopes.

Do you recommend an IH like the wand over a torch?
I've been using the wand personally, the initial heat up does take a bit of time, but generally I've been getting better, more consistent results with the wand over the torch so have stuck with it. Once the initial heating has been done, subsequent bowls heat up really quick which is good.

Only thing that puts me off something like a flare is when using for back to back bowls, currently I flip the wand and watch the visual indicator get to the mark I want to get to. My results are more or less exactly the same every time.
I'm assuming the flare is closed on the bottom meaning you won't be able to see the VI unless you remove it and check.

I really rely on and like the VI, not sure I want an IH without the ability to see it now.
1st world problems 😬😉
 
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