The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie

BreadStick

Well-Known Member
The Z-stem I had made for the tempest by the awesome @Zasquatch has a 14mm taper for the body, so without even having to disassemble the Tempest, I can use it in a 10mm with the mouthpiece or in a 14mm as the body fits. I know you said you didn’t wanna get a separate stem but this is the best option I know of so you can keep the adjustable airflow and helix stem for cooling while also having a couple options at WPA
I took a look back through the thread to see the Z-stem and it looks brilliant! That's definitely a better wpa solution than what I suggested. The only reason I think you might want the idea I've suggested instead is if the joint you're sitting the tempest into isn't deep enough to let the sleeve sink down and seal properly. Is that sleeve stainless steel lined by any chance? I'm not a huge fan of cleaning wood.

I've been having pretty similar experiences to @Zow237 with the Tempest. I'm using a torch too, have tried holding it a little further back but similar enough results.

I've been using a sondiko kitchen torch from Amazon but will purchase a wand when I get paid next.

On visual indicator level 1 and 2 almost no vapor on every 'open' setting. When I open the bowl up the weed is cooked slightly but definitely more to give.

I tried again to go close to heat indicator level 3 and it did produce vapour but I wouldn't say it was massive clouds per se.

I think I'm worried going to level 3 will cause combustion, which is what I want to avoid. If you do accidently combust it can leave a bit of a smokey aftertaste and you have to clean it, so it's out of use for a few hours while I clean and dry it off etc.

Could it be that im heating it too fast or not gradual enough? And the bud isn't heating gradually?

I only consume high grade stuff and I've tried several strains, so I don't think it's the weed.
Are you hitting the tempest immediately after you see the VI reach whatever point you're looking for? If so that might be your problem. People have mentioned earlier in the thread that there's a bit of lag between the temperature of the balls on the position of the VI. Try starting with a slow draw once you stop heating to try spread the heat amoung the balls. You'll feel the vapour production increase as you continue your draw and you'll be able to speed up your draw when you feel that increase. You could also try letting the tempest sit for few seconds before you hit it. I can't tell you which way would be best, I've been using the slow draw technique and I always heat my wand to between the 2nd and 3rd mark with nice results.
 
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Cannabiker

Well-Known Member
Would it be possible to make a 14mm and 18mm version of the little 10mm mouthpieces that the airflow tubes sit into? If it was possible to make something like that I think it'd be a lot handier than having to buy a different stem or a reducer. Sorry if this has been discussed before, I've a herborizer sherlock j-hook arriving today and I'm thinking about how I'd get my tempest on it!
I find that it's much easier to just pull the bowl from the stem and install it on a simple glass WPA. When I'm using a water piece (or a j-hook) I don't want the cooling/restriction the stem provides, and I'd rather not have to clean all those little bits. I can clean the glass WPA by running hot water through it.
 

Strolling&Rolling

Well-Known Member
I took a look back through the thread to see the Z-stem and it looks brilliant! That's definitely a better wpa solution than what I suggested. The only reason I think you might want the idea I've suggested instead is if the joint you're sitting the tempest into isn't deep enough to let the sleeve sink down and seal properly. Is that sleeve stainless steel lined by any chance? I'm not a huge fan of cleaning wood.


Are you hitting the tempest immediately after you see the VI reach whatever point you're looking for? If so that might be your problem. People have mentioned earlier in the thread that there's a bit of lag between the temperature of the balls on the position of the VI. Try starting with a slow draw once you stop heating to try spread the heat amoung the balls. You'll feel the vapour production increase as you continue your draw and you'll be able to speed up your draw when you feel that increase. You could also try letting the tempest sit for few seconds before you hit it. I can't tell you which way would be best, I've been using the slow draw technique and I always heat my wand to between the 2nd and 3rd mark with nice results.
I was usually hitting it quite soon after it reached the visual indicator yes! I'll try let it sit a bit first.

Are you supposed to place your finger over the adjustable air hole when inhaling by any chance? I heated it up to three and had my finger held over the air hole by mistake but it was actually producing some nice vapor!

I must say I can't wait until I get the hang of this thing because the flavour is better than any other vape I own, including Venty and Volcano.

I tried some Lemon Cherry Gelato a few minutes ago and this thing genuinely tasted like black forest cake coming out of the Tempest 🤤
 

Jojofernz

Well-Known Member
I took a look back through the thread to see the Z-stem and it looks brilliant! That's definitely a better wpa solution than what I suggested. The only reason I think you might want the idea I've suggested instead is if the joint you're sitting the tempest into isn't deep enough to let the sleeve sink down and seal properly. Is that sleeve stainless steel lined by any chance? I'm not a huge fan of cleaning wood.
Yes the sleeve is SS lined! Also, in the case of a joint not deep enough, you just remove the mouthpiece and hit it through the sleeve/body which may be better so you don’t have to clean the helix/mp as often if you’re running through a piece often.
 

Timps27

Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
@Strolling&Rolling

You’re likely heating fast and close to the end of the cap where the heat sensor is.

The tempest is a tall thermal battery relative to its heat sensor, you can get the sensor really hot and the battery (balls) can still be much cooler.

So on initial heats, a lower slower flame if you have it will help you penetrate the heat deeper into the battery ( or just holding it further away from the flame, at the end of the dark flame). On reheats the opposite may be true, where thermal retention can keep the internal temp higher than what the indicator out on the end of the device might feel.

In general it’s a manual butane vape experience. You are going to have to practice the ritual to find what works for you, based on subtle differences in a dozen different variables there are as many “right ways” to run a manual butane vape as there are manual butane vapists.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
And subsequently the only time I've part combusted (and I'm looking for the higher roasts so to speak, so close to the line) is when I've tried a reheat from hot to make sure it's been finished.
This has been my experience. My clicks and VI have been fairly accurate and consistent but occasionally reheating a load to get the last of it when taking small hits leads to combustion. Especially if my attention wanders.
Would it be possible to make a 14mm and 18mm version of the little 10mm mouthpieces that the airflow tubes sit into? If it was possible to make something like that I think it'd be a lot handier than having to buy a different stem or a reducer.
I have been unsuccessful trying to find a 10mm ID reducer with an 18mm OD joint. Nearly all of them seem to be 14mm OD. The same has been mostly true for 8mm ID wpas with 18mm joints for the Tempest. These tend to mostly be 14mm or three ways.

There are some out there, but I have had trouble finding them. I think the best bet is going to be asking somebody like hookahead to make them if you really want one. When it comes right down to it, I don't really have any great need to drop a Tempest with its stem into my glass because the stem (for me at home) is for cooling and I'm already using water. It might be nice, though, to have one that I can carry with me to a friend's house so I can use his glass on my normal Tempest stem without putting the head on a WPA.
 

General Disaster

Of cabbages and Kings.
Especially if my attention wanders.
Can't imagine how that could happen in the middle of vaping cannabis! 🤔
Shockin'! 😧

Yes that's the part, am I right saying that little metal mouthpiece is a 10mm male joint? I was thinking it might be nice if there was 2 other versions of that part, one that's 14mm and the other 18mm to save you having to use the reducers. It's probably too big a manufacturing challenge for what it's worth. The reducers aren't much of a hassle at home but I'd like to have less glass parts if I can for travel.
I suspect, regardless of ease of manufacture, it would just look wrong on the slick and slim Tempest. Personally, I would go for an adapter that looked the part (relative to the 'pests aesthetics) rather than the more common 10/14 or 10/18 glass adapters, which while matching a bubbler or w.h.y. are rather clumsy and functional rather than pleasing to the eye. Maybe an elegant titanium adapter that matches the design feel of the 'pest more than a simple glass quickfit adapter, and just slips on in the same way?

Actually, that raises a question to throw out there...
... for those of you putting your 'pest through a 10mm glass, does that elegant slight curve on the pests mouthpiece help prevent it sticking in the socket? Usually one cause of those glass joints sticking is they mate so well, and so much area is in direct contact, so I had to wonder whether that slight curve which reduces that area of contact while still creating a seal all around, would make it less prone to sticking?

have been unsuccessful trying to find a 10mm ID reducer with an 18mm OD joint.
These should be readily available from most scientific glassware suppliers.
What you may not like so much is the cost! That stuff is very high quality, and tends to cost at least twice, maybe even three or four times the cost of the cheaper constructed items used for bongs and similar (that level of quality is simply a waste for a bong, unless you want quality for no other reason that something costs more! 😏).
You can also get ptfe inserts from the same sources that not only change the size, but are also non-stick (of course! 😁) but heat resistant enough for the use. But they don't tend to look as nice, purely functional, though cheaper.

For example, if you look at Camlab, popular well establish scientific glassware supplier, here's a link to a reduction adapter.
If you look at the table on the page, the first two entries (see below) DA01 and DA12* are 10mm to 14mm and 10mm to 19mm reduction adapters.
The odd looking numbers (14/23 and 19/26 etc. are the sizes, "diameter/length" (the 19 is what most closely matches the bong markets "18mm" and "18.8mm" sizes, and mostly fit ok with the tolerance available from a cone/socket mating mechanism. If they don't then your bongs socket simply isn't well specc'ed enough (the scientific glass is perfect fit - has to be or it would be useless, partly why the cost is high).

Item CodeCone sizeSocket sizePack quantity
DA0114/2310/192
DA12*19/2614/232

In actual fact these particular adapters are not too costly, about £32 for two ($38?), which for lab gear is peanuts, but you'll usually get cheaper with non-lab glass.
 
General Disaster,
  • Haha
Reactions: Wozz

popitup

Well-Known Member
Was able to grab one of the inserts, which I've been hoping to see pop up again since hearing about them. While the ritual for cleaning balls isn't terrible, I'd still rather not deal with 100 sticky balls. Here it is next to the stem. [more details]

Posting details here because this comparison was done exclusively using the Tempest. I'm in love with this combination btw. You can take MASSIVE hits.


How deep it sits.


Balls after ~30 sessions


insert after about the same

 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Can't imagine how that could happen in the middle of vaping cannabis! 🤔
Shockin'! 😧
:p
These should be readily available from most scientific glassware suppliers.
I tend to buy my glass direct from the vendor like Goo Roo, from consolidators like DHGate or AliExpress, or from stores like Ebay or Etsy. Call me cheap but I am unlikely to go to a scientific supply house.
I have to say, this project looks really interesting. I have had a lot of good luck with early RastaBuddhaTao projects.
 
cybrguy,

ezpz

Well-Known Member
Are you supposed to place your finger over the adjustable air hole when inhaling by any chance?
@Strolling&Rolling
That depends on what you want. Closing the carb will give you dense clouds and a very restricted draw (great for MTL). Keeping the carb open will give you lighter clouds, smoother vapor, and very little draw resistance (great for DTL). Some people keep it closed or open the whole time, some people start closed and flutter it later. You’ll find what works for you. Currently, I leave the carb open throughout the first 2-3 draws, then close it for the last one (trying to get all the goodness out). DTL with a long, steady, medium draw (similar to how I would hit a j hook). I do need to pack the bowl loosely for it to work good though, so I load a bowl with the “straw” technique. If I pack it too tight, more air will go through the carb and less air through the herb. If I want MTL hits, I’ll close the carb throughout the first couple hits, then flutter it later with a DTL hit.
 

akp55

Member
i have a dumb question, how do i adjust the airflow on the head? I thought i saw somewhere that something we could do, but i can't figure out how. might also just be too baked
 
akp55,

ApparentlyStoned

When life gives you lemons, lemon tek
i have a dumb question, how do i adjust the airflow on the head? I thought i saw somewhere that something we could do, but i can't figure out how. might also just be too baked
You can rotate that whole outer sleeve. It’s oval shaped so you can get it to loosen by squeezing it on the side.

Basically pinch the cap and try rotating it. If it doesn’t spin rotate the whole thing and pinch from a different side.
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
I'm guessing you've probably already tried or considered using IH, but for what it's worth, I just got a Wand after starting with a pocket jet lighter, and this is a real improvement in certain ways. Much much more adjustable and repeatable in a precise and accurate fashion than I could manage with the flame. The heating of the weed is much more consistent, fewer 'hot' spots. The VI becomes almost unnecessary once you find the temp setting on the wand that you like, and adjust the cup to direct the heat at the precise part of the head you want (convection/conduction etc). It's taking around 30 seconds to get from cold to required temp, in about 18℃ room temp indoors. The lighter is still useful for travelling with sometimes, but I'm growing to appreciate the Wand more and more as I use it. In fact, the biggest issue I've had so far (if you can even call it an issue) is it could do with a simple stand to hold it on it's side, and support the mouthpiece of the 'pest, so the pest can be heated horizontally, instead of upside down, where the weed can fall out the bowl a little bit, and not be quite so well packed. I reckon a fairly simple and small 3d-printed stand would do it very nicely.
- Actually, on reflection, I think a little stand in wood would be much nicer, and only need to be about 4" long by 1.5" wide and 0.5" high.
I have and use the IH all the time, in fact its the "normal way" for me to use the Tempest.

Its more a ritual with a torch and with a tiny one like I'm using the hotspots aren't really a thing you need to worry about.

Interestingly I would argue with you on the use of an Induction heater and the predictability of the Tempest or any other device for that matter as I have been testing for almost 5 months mainly using the a IH and timing having no VI or click discs at the time and... I have to admit I didn't like it because I felt stupid as everyone else is using it without a problem and here I am burning at least a bowl a day.

I would do the exact same thing as I did the day before but maybe with the Australian weather at the moment, 40c one day 22c the next, maybe the ambient temperature was affecting it, maybe I wasn't cleaning the Tempest properly, maybe I was just unable to concentrate for long enough I don't know but...

The VI and clicks - for someone like me - its a game changer.

Plus I love using a Zippo with a torch insert and sitting outside watching the stars. (** note I haven't done that in months, Its a goal lol)

Could it be that im heating it too fast or not gradual enough? And the bud isn't heating gradually?
I like to use a low and slow approach and use a smaller flame, heating at the middle of the SS sleave, but when you have finished heating it up, let it settle for a second before taking a draw to let the heat stabilise. Also you don't always get vapour on the first draw, it might be the third before you get vapour being produced at a level that is what you are looking for. Changing the balls to boro changes this and increased the vapour production at the cost of heat retention time.

I like to do a low and slow approach but right at the end I "kiss the bowl"; by that I mean I use the torch at the right where the bowl is in the oven, to get a little direct heat onto the bowl, this also increases speed at which the production of vapour happens however, a tiny bit to much and it will ignite so you only want to kiss it a little

Especially if my attention wanders.
and simply put this has been my biggest issue, either pain impacting my ability to concentrate or just the usual inattentiveness, since I have got clicks and a VI that works the clicks sort of bring my attention back to what I am doing allowing me to check the VI and be more successful - even on heating in the middle of a session.

Are you hitting the tempest immediately after you see the VI reach whatever point you're looking for? If so that might be your problem. People have mentioned earlier in the thread that there's a bit of lag between the temperature of the balls on the position of the VI
If you swap the balls for boro you loose most of that lag, the zrc needs time to stabilise before you draw air through it or it doesn't transfer to the herbs well.
 
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vappingallnight

Well-Known Member
Other main difference is the helix airflow tube, it doesn't have the restricted MTL setting on it, it has three holes that are the same size so it doesn't really matter where it sits now.
I dont think Im following. It may be because I have the Revolve V1 but are you saying the tube that holds the spinning MP is different now? Seems on V2 it was angle cut while now its more open?

I am understanding that the Tempest head has airflow adjustment but didnt the airflow stay the same on the stem?
 
vappingallnight,

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.

akp55

Member
You can rotate that whole outer sleeve. It’s oval shaped so you can get it to loosen by squeezing it on the side.

Basically pinch the cap and try rotating it. If it doesn’t spin rotate the whole thing and pinch from a different side.

i'm really not understanding where to grab... the only outter sleeve i know about is the heat shield
 
akp55,

BushRanger

Hit It & Quit It
i'm really not understanding where to grab... the only outter sleeve i know about is the heat shield
Slightly loosen up the cap screw on top, so you can rotate the induction sleeve/layer. It's the part where you torch Tempest. It's a thin layer that can be rotated, to regulate air intake.
 

General Disaster

Of cabbages and Kings.
Interestingly I would argue with you on the use of an Induction heater and the predictability of the Tempest or any other device for that matter as I have been testing for almost 5 months mainly using the a IH and timing having no VI or click discs at the time and... I have to admit I didn't like it because I felt stupid as everyone else is using it without a problem and here I am burning at least a bowl a day.
Oh, I only was commenting from my VERY limited experience. Never even touched (torched? 😉) a DV until last year, and didn't really get on with it - too small, bad airflow, etc etc.
I was only commenting from the difference I've noticed never having tried an IH before (hell, only had the 'pest for less than a month roughly!), and more interested as to why you used the torch (your being obviously experienced with vaping, to put it mildly!). I wasn't judging at all!

Also, will betcha pounds to dollars (don't go for it, ukp are not the best investment any more! 😁) it varies from person to person just on hand-eye coordination and fine motor control of muscles etc. Not to mention experience and practice (I won't even start on personal preference! 😉).
I was giving only my new and recent experiences, and being new, hadn't heard about your IH experiences (hence my question).

But all that aside, for me, having worked a lot in chemistry (wet lab-wise) and related areas of science, where I lack in many things I excelled in applying logical analysis and application of controls and variables blah blah, and in my situation the IH is considerable more repeatable (so far at least). I simply couldn't hold a flame steady enough for long enough to match resting an object in a stable position in a crisply defined mode - um, how to say better? I can change the height of the coil by almost 0.1mm at a time, and it stays exactly that until I change it. I can set the amount of power flowing per second to an also precise and fairly accurate way. I can't do that with the flame. etc etc. This is just me, not you of course! 😊

But the ritual thing goes to another stage (sorry, I know I over-verbalise!) and ties in deeply to the drug, it's effects (even physical), culture, society (even stoner society!), the massively powerful placebo effect (in many ways stronger than a particular drug in question).
Very important especially for some people more than others. Preparation can be everything sometimes, and it doesn't have to be directly related to preparing the drug itself, much more preparing the person to receive it?
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
m
Oh, I only was commenting from my VERY limited experience. Never even touched (torched? 😉) a DV until last year, and didn't really get on with it - too small, bad airflow, etc etc.
I was only commenting from the difference I've noticed never having tried an IH before (hell, only had the 'pest for less than a month roughly!), and more interested as to why you used the torch (your being obviously experienced with vaping, to put it mildly!). I wasn't judging at all!

Also, will betcha pounds to dollars (don't go for it, ukp are not the best investment any more! 😁) it varies from person to person just on hand-eye coordination and fine motor control of muscles etc. Not to mention experience and practice (I won't even start on personal preference! 😉).
I was giving only my new and recent experiences, and being new, hadn't heard about your IH experiences (hence my question).

But all that aside, for me, having worked a lot in chemistry (wet lab-wise) and related areas of science, where I lack in many things I excelled in applying logical analysis and application of controls and variables blah blah, and in my situation the IH is considerable more repeatable (so far at least). I simply couldn't hold a flame steady enough for long enough to match resting an object in a stable position in a crisply defined mode - um, how to say better? I can change the height of the coil by almost 0.1mm at a time, and it stays exactly that until I change it. I can set the amount of power flowing per second to an also precise and fairly accurate way. I can't do that with the flame. etc etc. This is just me, not you of course! 😊

But the ritual thing goes to another stage (sorry, I know I over-verbalise!) and ties in deeply to the drug, it's effects (even physical), culture, society (even stoner society!), the massively powerful placebo effect (in many ways stronger than a particular drug in question).
Very important especially for some people more than others. Preparation can be everything sometimes, and it doesn't have to be directly related to preparing the drug itself, much more preparing the person to receive it?
in short, I agree with a lot of what you have said - especially the last part about rituals/preparation/ceremony
 

kokolokokolokon

Well-Known Member
futurama asks GIF
 

Strolling&Rolling

Well-Known Member
@Strolling&Rolling

You’re likely heating fast and close to the end of the cap where the heat sensor is.

The tempest is a tall thermal battery relative to its heat sensor, you can get the sensor really hot and the battery (balls) can still be much cooler.

So on initial heats, a lower slower flame if you have it will help you penetrate the heat deeper into the battery ( or just holding it further away from the flame, at the end of the dark flame). On reheats the opposite may be true, where thermal retention can keep the internal temp higher than what the indicator out on the end of the device might feel.

In general it’s a manual butane vape experience. You are going to have to practice the ritual to find what works for you, based on subtle differences in a dozen different variables there are as many “right ways” to run a manual butane vape as there are manual butane vapists.
Thanks for all the replies!

So should I aim between the 2 lines on the capsule? Or a little higher or lower than that?


I have and use the IH all the time, in fact its the "normal way" for me to use the Tempest.

Its more a ritual with a torch and with a tiny one like I'm using the hotspots aren't really a thing you need to worry about.

Interestingly I would argue with you on the use of an Induction heater and the predictability of the Tempest or any other device for that matter as I have been testing for almost 5 months mainly using the a IH and timing having no VI or click discs at the time and... I have to admit I didn't like it because I felt stupid as everyone else is using it without a problem and here I am burning at least a bowl a day.

I would do the exact same thing as I did the day before but maybe with the Australian weather at the moment, 40c one day 22c the next, maybe the ambient temperature was affecting it, maybe I wasn't cleaning the Tempest properly, maybe I was just unable to concentrate for long enough I don't know but...

The VI and clicks - for someone like me - its a game changer.

Plus I love using a Zippo with a torch insert and sitting outside watching the stars. (** note I haven't done that in months, Its a goal lol)


I like to use a low and slow approach and use a smaller flame, heating at the middle of the SS sleave, but when you have finished heating it up, let it settle for a second before taking a draw to let the heat stabilise. Also you don't always get vapour on the first draw, it might be the third before you get vapour being produced at a level that is what you are looking for. Changing the balls to boro changes this and increased the vapour production at the cost of heat retention time.

I like to do a low and slow approach but right at the end I "kiss the bowl"; by that I mean I use the torch at the right where the bowl is in the oven, to get a little direct heat onto the bowl, this also increases speed at which the production of vapour happens however, a tiny bit to much and it will ignite so you only want to kiss it a little


and simply put this has been my biggest issue, either pain impacting my ability to concentrate or just the usual inattentiveness, since I have got clicks and a VI that works the clicks sort of bring my attention back to what I am doing allowing me to check the VI and be more successful - even on heating in the middle of a session.


If you swap the balls for boro you loose most of that lag, the zrc needs time to stabilise before you draw air through it or it doesn't transfer to the herbs well.
Thanks for the help, I'll try using a low and slow to gradually heat it.

With the wand, is there any real difference between the visual indicator reaching level 3 of the wand than with a torch?

Is the wand more accurate? More gradual?
 
Strolling&Rolling,

Strolling&Rolling

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass to everyone while I get used to the Tempest!

It's my first externally heated vape so I'm just getting used to it, could someone help me troubleshoot to see what is I'm doing wrong.
As it is I'm getting basically no vapor so I'm trying to understand what's going wrong.

I've been following people instructions but i can't seem to nail it down.

- So I'm loading a bowl, filling it up that it's nice and full but I'm not patting it down in anyway. It's full but not wedged with bud.

- Once it's loaded I'm holding it upright, with the mouthpiece at the bottom and cap at the top. I use a flame torch and have tried lower and slower power and I've tried it a bit higher powered.

- I heat it up with the flame about 1CM away from the device as instructed. I let it get to the 3rd dot on the visual indicator. This usually takes probably 40 seconds or a minute maybe perhaps.

- I inhale, no noticeable vapor. I've tried it after waiting a few seconds to let the balls heat up as suggested on here. I've tried slowly sipping it to heat it up but still no noticeable vapor other than occasionally. The only thing that seems to provide strong vapor is if I hold my finger over the adjustable air hole as I inhale, but it gets dangerously close to combustion and I'm not sure if that's how the vape is supposed to be used.

- When I empty the bowl to clean the device, the weed is cooked a bit but still has more life in it.


Can anyone notice what I might be doing wrong? Could the quality of the flame torch I'm using may not be good enough? This is the torch I use below.


Is there any steps I'm missing?

When the weed is loaded should it be closer to the balls in the cap or still closer to the bowl part?

I certainly don't seem to be doing anything too different than this video here:

The only thing I could think of is the quality of my torch isn't good enough?
 
Strolling&Rolling,
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