Discontinued The Okin by D.M. Pipes
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Unisonruss
Well-Known Member
I hope someone posts a video soon 
I hope someone posts a video soon
Me too!
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Haakkon
Well-Known Member
Stainless steel screen over the cloth does sound like a smart move. Though I would caution about using too fine of a mesh. I've tested a bunch of different weaves in the Lotus and the remotely fine ones tend to still clog a lot due to resin. Pick the biggest size that doesn't allow bits to be inhaled.
I know everyone must be chomping at the bit for first impressions! So I guess i'll explain why the beta testers have not shared their initial experiences.
The bamboo charcoals have proven to be too inconsistent between batches. Every time I get a new batch of bamboo canes, the quality is different. The mineral content of the bamboo, the wall thickness, the density of the fibers... all of these attributes change the way that the charcoal will burn, and ultimately the temperature that it will burn at.
During my own testing, I was able to hand pick canes from local garden centers, choosing the best ones. This resulted in consistent results on a small scale. But looking to the future, it's going to be too difficult to find perfect bamboo every time. And even bamboo that appears to be perfect, may have a high mineral content that I have recently learned plays a large role in the burn temperature.
The batch of charcoals sent to the testers was from bamboo that I had just obtained from a new source, as well as some canes that I already had. Turns out that the canes from the new source are burning at a lower temperature than they should be. It seems likely that this was due to high mineral content in the skin, and relatively thin walls. Burning the charcoals in a gas flame down to ash reveals an unusually high mineral content.
SO, I am abandoning bamboo charcoal. But for good reason. I have been experimenting with hardwood charcoal for a few weeks now, and find that birch/soft maple charcoal, produced in the same shape, produces MUCH more consistent results. Being a domestic product, it's no problem for me to buy in large quantities, and the starting material will always be roughly the same mineral content, density, etc. The hole size through the center of the tube will always be the same. And the outer diameter much more consistent as well.
So I am sending Pak a small batch of hardwood charcoals, and he will probably get them by tomorrow. From there, he can compare them to the bamboo.
It's a rather large change, but I believe that it's the final key design change.
Oh, also, I am scraping the fabric filter. It will be replaced by a SS mesh filter.
Just goes to show the importance of beta testing!
EDIT:
14 charcoals were picked from random, from a batch of bamboo charcoal, and a batch of birch hardwood charcoal.
The two rows on the top are bamboo.
You can clearly observe the difference in consistency here. Check out the difference in hole size!
Out of those 14, I see only a couple bamboo charcoals that I would consider perfect. Out of the hardwood, I would consider them all very usable.
Apart from appearance, the consistency in mineral content and density is likely exact among the birch charcoals, and variable among the bamboo charcoals.
The bamboo charcoals have proven to be too inconsistent between batches. Every time I get a new batch of bamboo canes, the quality is different. The mineral content of the bamboo, the wall thickness, the density of the fibers... all of these attributes change the way that the charcoal will burn, and ultimately the temperature that it will burn at.
During my own testing, I was able to hand pick canes from local garden centers, choosing the best ones. This resulted in consistent results on a small scale. But looking to the future, it's going to be too difficult to find perfect bamboo every time. And even bamboo that appears to be perfect, may have a high mineral content that I have recently learned plays a large role in the burn temperature.
The batch of charcoals sent to the testers was from bamboo that I had just obtained from a new source, as well as some canes that I already had. Turns out that the canes from the new source are burning at a lower temperature than they should be. It seems likely that this was due to high mineral content in the skin, and relatively thin walls. Burning the charcoals in a gas flame down to ash reveals an unusually high mineral content.
SO, I am abandoning bamboo charcoal. But for good reason. I have been experimenting with hardwood charcoal for a few weeks now, and find that birch/soft maple charcoal, produced in the same shape, produces MUCH more consistent results. Being a domestic product, it's no problem for me to buy in large quantities, and the starting material will always be roughly the same mineral content, density, etc. The hole size through the center of the tube will always be the same. And the outer diameter much more consistent as well.
So I am sending Pak a small batch of hardwood charcoals, and he will probably get them by tomorrow. From there, he can compare them to the bamboo.
It's a rather large change, but I believe that it's the final key design change.
Oh, also, I am scraping the fabric filter. It will be replaced by a SS mesh filter.
Just goes to show the importance of beta testing!
EDIT:
14 charcoals were picked from random, from a batch of bamboo charcoal, and a batch of birch hardwood charcoal.
The two rows on the top are bamboo.
You can clearly observe the difference in consistency here. Check out the difference in hole size!
Out of those 14, I see only a couple bamboo charcoals that I would consider perfect. Out of the hardwood, I would consider them all very usable.
Apart from appearance, the consistency in mineral content and density is likely exact among the birch charcoals, and variable among the bamboo charcoals.
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Thanks for understanding what beta testing really is.
Not to point fingers, but some "beta tests" are simply early release units intended to stir up interest. The product is finished and no matter what you find, the release date is unchangeable and really soon. I won't participate in one of those. The Okin is in true beta test, which means you're fixing any problems and we don't have a release date yet. When I do a beta test, any problem I find is discussed with the designer first. This avoids misunderstandings and provides an opportunity to fix things. I therefore wouldn't post about the uneven charcoal because it's a problem that will be fixed before the Okin reaches the public.
What I can say is that when you get the Okin set up right, the experience is unique. It isn't for everyone, but some people will absolutely love it.
Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Thanks for the explanation! The hardwood coals look wayyyyyy more consistent judging from the picture. Nothing wrong with a few tweeks. I was wondering why it was so quite in here. Hope you find the hardwood coals produce better/more consistent results!
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
Hurry up and test this beauty so i can buy one.
Thanks for the update Dan! It does raise a couple of questions though...
I think I remember reading earlier in this thread that part of the reason for originally choosing bamboo was because it burns cleaner than other types? What are your thoughts on the new hardwood charcoals? Will they burn less clean compared to the bamboo ones? Or is the charcoal purity dependent on the temperature they are made at (in which case I would think they would be about as clean burning as the bamboo ones)? Or am I just completely off base on this, and I should shut up before I sound like an idiot lol?
How about black carbon residue from handling the charcoals? I remember reading that this wasn't really an issue with the bamboo charcoal, that it didn't produce as much residue as other types of charcoal (i.e. hardwood charcoal)... Are these new charcoals more messy in that regard? Not that I really care if they are... (I'll be getting one regardless
)
Overall, I'm pleased to see that these new charcoals are of a more consistent quality. And the SS mesh sounds like a much better option than the cloth screen. Keep up the awesome work Dan! I'm getting more and more excited about this thing with each update!
I think I remember reading earlier in this thread that part of the reason for originally choosing bamboo was because it burns cleaner than other types? What are your thoughts on the new hardwood charcoals? Will they burn less clean compared to the bamboo ones? Or is the charcoal purity dependent on the temperature they are made at (in which case I would think they would be about as clean burning as the bamboo ones)? Or am I just completely off base on this, and I should shut up before I sound like an idiot lol?
How about black carbon residue from handling the charcoals? I remember reading that this wasn't really an issue with the bamboo charcoal, that it didn't produce as much residue as other types of charcoal (i.e. hardwood charcoal)... Are these new charcoals more messy in that regard? Not that I really care if they are... (I'll be getting one regardless
)Overall, I'm pleased to see that these new charcoals are of a more consistent quality. And the SS mesh sounds like a much better option than the cloth screen. Keep up the awesome work Dan! I'm getting more and more excited about this thing with each update!
@Derrrpp , The emissions are dependent on the leftover VOCs and fixed carbon content in the charcoal, which is a reflection of the carbonation temperature (the temperature that the charcoal is made at).
The birch seems to burn just as cleanly, if not cleaner.
Though, it does produce a super fluffy pure white ash that tends to float up into the air like snowflakes...
I have been testing the charcoals by burning them with a butane torch until all that is left is non-combustible ash. The birch charcoal leaves less ash, which makes sense when you compare the mineral content between bamboo and birch. Interestingly, the ash left by birch is pure white, where as the bamboo leaves a grey/black ash.
The birch is softer, and does produce more carbon dust because of that. Though, the softness also has it's upsides.
The modifications that had to be done to bamboo, like poking the holes in the side walls, etc. Don't have to be done to the birch charcoals. When you account for that, the birch is actually less messy in the long run.
The birch seems to burn just as cleanly, if not cleaner.
Though, it does produce a super fluffy pure white ash that tends to float up into the air like snowflakes...
I have been testing the charcoals by burning them with a butane torch until all that is left is non-combustible ash. The birch charcoal leaves less ash, which makes sense when you compare the mineral content between bamboo and birch. Interestingly, the ash left by birch is pure white, where as the bamboo leaves a grey/black ash.
The birch is softer, and does produce more carbon dust because of that. Though, the softness also has it's upsides.
The modifications that had to be done to bamboo, like poking the holes in the side walls, etc. Don't have to be done to the birch charcoals. When you account for that, the birch is actually less messy in the long run.
dingus
Well-Known Member
@Derrrpp exactly what I was thinking, I'm glad you asked!
I really love how everything with the Okin has been handled, I feel a lot of vaporizer start-ups could learn from this thread.. Not only were we allowed behind-the-scenes access on the whole creative process of the Okin, we also got to witness real beta testing take place.. The Okin will actually transform due to suggestions and results found during testing by forum members..
I hate to pull the Evoke into this thread (I'm salty), but it's funny how they, a group that raised half a million dollars, can't even afford to at least communicate with backers regularly.
I really love how everything with the Okin has been handled, I feel a lot of vaporizer start-ups could learn from this thread.. Not only were we allowed behind-the-scenes access on the whole creative process of the Okin, we also got to witness real beta testing take place.. The Okin will actually transform due to suggestions and results found during testing by forum members..
I hate to pull the Evoke into this thread (I'm salty), but it's funny how they, a group that raised half a million dollars, can't even afford to at least communicate with backers regularly.
Buildozer
Baked & Fried
I used to judge herb this way when I was combusting.. The whiter the ash content was (to me) a trait of well flushed/cured herb.. All the harsh hitting stuff would always burn more of a black to dark-grey colored.. It pretty much sounds like the same thing you're talking about.
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Hmmm. Not sure yet. The metal tip is one of the more time consuming parts of the build. I will need to price it out. Stand by!
Hmm, interesting..
I've changed the stem. Hope y'all don't mind. hahaha. Thoughts?
Reasoning: After months of use, one of my four bamboo test stems has developed a crack... that keeps growing... I have since re-evaluated this flaw with bamboo, and just want to avoid it altogether.
Plus, it just looks a biiit better this way I think...
You can see it in the first photo of the bamboo stem that I posted above. Nearer to the mouthpiece.
It doesn't affect functionality. But I can see some people being bothered by it.
I will say that... the crack was there from the start, i cracked it while making it, by accident of course. But the crack has since opened up. And, I still think that there is a greater possibility for bamboo to crack over hardwood... even if it's rare.
Also, it's a bit of an availability problem as well. The bamboo pieces that are suitable for building these stems are far and few inbetween. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but.. it makes hardwood (which I have a shit ton of) that much more attractive.
I don't recall if this was mentioned, but are the bamboo stems heat-cured to catalyze and fix the natural resins throughout the stem fibers(?) ...this process being akin to stabilizing wood for adding significant strength, crack resistance, and minimizing porosity - the result being somewhat like carbon fiber in strength. In all, a known [ancient and current] process (fairly simple) and result. I must be completely open and honest - it has been the bamboo feature of the Okin that particularly appealed to me, and a change from that leaves me feeling disappointed.
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Yes, they are heat-cured. And I do agree that it reduces crack resistance.
Perhaps, then, I can offer bamboo stems for the early adopters while my bamboo supplies last. And In the mean time, try to find some more suitable material.
At the very least, I'll make you a bamboo stem Snappo! haha.
Wonderful! I'll take at least two, probably three, with those beautiful inlays! I'm not worried about them cracking at all, as I think yours was destined for that to happen as it already had a pre-existing crack (on the opposite end of the heat source no less).
I like the look of the new stem more than the old bamboo one. The bamboo looked amazing, but that new stem... Wow. 
I love the darker color of the hardwood, and the grain on that piece is particularly striking.
Plus if it makes it easier for you to produce, then that just means we'll get our Okins sooner, right? (No rush, of course. I can be patient haha)
I love the darker color of the hardwood, and the grain on that piece is particularly striking. Plus if it makes it easier for you to produce, then that just means we'll get our Okins sooner, right?
(No rush, of course. I can be patient haha)