The Nomad From Morwood

SquirrelMaster

Well-Known Member
Do you use glass beads in your stem?
@namasteIII This would be my recommendation to increase draw resistance. When I started using 4mm boro balls in my different vape stems I found if I packed them tight then the draw resistance increased as well as cooling. The only downside is more frequent and involved cleanings but the cooling is worth it imo. Sandwiched between 2 basket screens they only need a dip in ISO and then I like a using a metal strainer to spread them out or by blow drying the stem with balls still in. Depends how dirty you let them get.

If anyone is looking for batteries for their Nomad, 18650batterystore has a sale including the Molicel 26A.
 

abcd5432

Well-Known Member
@namasteIII This would be my recommendation to increase draw resistance. When I started using 4mm boro balls in my different vape stems I found if I packed them tight then the draw resistance increased as well as cooling. The only downside is more frequent and involved cleanings but the cooling is worth it imo. Sandwiched between 2 basket screens they only need a dip in ISO and then I like a using a metal strainer to spread them out or by blow drying the stem with balls still in. Depends how dirty you let them get.

If anyone is looking for batteries for their Nomad, 18650batterystore has a sale including the Molicel 26A.
I find this battery stuff so confusing... I have no idea what I need.
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
I find this battery stuff so confusing... I have no idea what I need.

You need a *flat top* (not button top) 18650. I don’t remember the exact minimum specs, but I’m sure they’re in the thread.

The last time I saw Dan post about the batteries he’s using himself, he was liking the Molicel P26A so I would start with those if you’re getting yours soon. That’s what I bought too. :)
 

SquirrelMaster

Well-Known Member
I find this battery stuff so confusing... I have no idea what I need.
You're not alone, I was very overwhelmed when I first started looking into 18650 cells. In an unregulated device you want a cell with a high "A" (amp) drain rating. However you can't always trust the ratings as some manufacturers straight up lie and their cells do not meet the label. This is why I only use cells that have been tested by Mooch as well as only buying from trusted sources like 18650batterystore or others he has listed in his blog. Stay away from Amazon and Ebay listing as there are many counterfeit cells.

The Molicel 26A is rated as the best all around cell if you check out his battery recommendation link (4th link down in his blog) but there are many other good cells like the 20S, VTC5D, VTC5A if you can't get ahold of the 26A. Dan used to use a yellow cell iirc but I can't remember the manufacturer.

The reason behind using that group of cells as opposed to the "20A" VTC6/30Q/HG2 is performance and more importantly (for me anyways) safety. With no safety shut off like you would find in a regulated device the high drain cells are safer. There's a battery safety thread on FC you can go through for more info.
 

namasteIII

Well-Known Member
Can anyone upload a picture of their bowl after a session? Nothing I change regarding draw technique, pack style, or even switching to the low heater has any real change on what my bowls ultimately look like. I want to know if fully even vaporization is even possible here. Thanks.
 

almost there

Well-Known Member
Can anyone upload a picture of their bowl after a session? Nothing I change regarding draw technique, pack style, or even switching to the low heater has any real change on what my bowls ultimately look like. I want to know if fully even vaporization is even possible here. Thanks.
Thanks for asking all the difficult questions man, I seem to suffer from the same challenges :lol:. After reading about Dan installing the double screens in the bottom of the air path of the Nomad 2's I went back and inserted the single screen that came with my Nomad. Didn't do much as far as slowing down the draw but I am happier that it keeps the heater clean. I may stack a few screens in the bottom and see if it will help regulate my draw better
 

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
It's a convection vape with a small area filled with dry plant matter through which hot hot air is being drawn. Unless one happens to be a nomad whisperer (not sure how many of them there are around), one will have to deal with some uneven extraction. Or a stir. I've never been one to have a problem with a little stir now and again. I use the small tweezers of my pocket knife. It's always worth it, no matter what convection vape you happen to be using. Sometimes the best part of a session comes right after a stir. :2c:
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Can anyone upload a picture of their bowl after a session? Nothing I change regarding draw technique, pack style, or even switching to the low heater has any real change on what my bowls ultimately look like. I want to know if fully even vaporization is even possible here. Thanks.

Sorry to hear that you're having troubles. I'll take some photos tomorrow to show exactly what my session looks like, and I'll time it, no stirring.

I tried restricting the airflow by putting some masking tape over the bottom hole and punching some holes in it. This definitely gives something to pull against, which did seem to make it a little easier to control the inhale speed... but for myself I still prefer full open. I tend to grind pretty fine, and tamp very lightly, so this does add a little natural restriction.

Hopefully we can get some community discussion on technique and see if there are some easier ways to get over the learning curve here.
 

SloJimFizz

Unknown Member
Lifespan of a stem full.
Stem with one of Dan's kick ass screens set in about 3/8 of an inch. 9-10mm



Full load, lightly tamped with finger.
No screen between heater and load.

20201201-081616.jpg


Lo heater, freshly charged LG HE4. (Molicels ordered!) The right batteries are half the battle. The Nomad will laugh at the wrong batteries. A 25R won't even get it off the ground.
Continuous button press throughout draw, 2-3 second delay before starting slow draw, then taking a little catch my breath pauses whilst still pressing the button twice somewhere in the draw that last an average 12-15 seconds. First bowl on fresh battery the draws are shorter, 3rd stemfull on cell draws can take a bit more time naturally.
After a couple draws it looks like this.

20201201-081912.jpg


I turn my stem out of habit after each draw. With the Nomad, when I do scorch with ther lo heater, it's an O, with the Hi heat it looks like the pic @namasteIII posted. I have tried a couple times to master the Hi heater in the 2.5 years owning this, but have always gone back to the Lo.

20201201-082150.jpg


Done enough for me, 6 or so good draws.I don't bother stirring to try and squeeze out another yank. Gravity is too much an enemy after a stir and im screenless between my load and heater.
If I start to notice any performance issues, a field strip and cleaning of the button and all things metal usually reminds me of how awesome this vape is.
Looking forward to the Nomad 2's hitting the wild. Those are looking beautiful @Dan Morrison :clap:
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Here are the ABV results. All these tests were done with a molicel p26a.

All of these tests were timed with a stop watch. No stirring through the sessions, unless otherwise noted.

One thing you'll notice is that the Nomad produces very light ABV.

Chamber 1.

Unvaped Chamber - almost full load, fine grind, lightly tamped.

DSCF2752.jpg

First hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 OFF 14 15 16 Stop - Vapor light, great taste

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Second hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 OFF 15 16 17 18 Stop - Vapor heavy, great taste

DSCF2754.jpg


Third hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 OFF 14 15 16 17 18 19 Stop - Vapor heavy, good taste

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Fourth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 OFF 14 15 16 17 ON 18 19 20 21 Stop - Vapor med/low, decent taste

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Fifth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 8 9 10 11 12 13 OFF 14 15 ON 16 17 18 19 20 21 Stop - Vapor light, minimal taste

DSCF2757.jpg

Dumped it out. The top (nearest heater) of the chamber is on the right side, moving towards the bottom of the chamber on the left. You can see a very slight gradient from one end to the other. This is usually where I stop.

DSCF2758.jpg

For the sake of the test, I reloaded the stirred herb and went for one last hit.

Sixth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 Inhale 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 OFF 18 19 20 21 22 Stop - Vapor med/heavy, decent taste

While I still got a good hit off this last one, I could tell it was cashed to my liking from the taste and feel of the vapor.

I dumped it out a second time. This time there is no gradient.

DSCF2759.jpg


To be continued.....
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@namasteIII - Oops, sorry, this is all with the low heater. I'll do the high heater at a later date, I get more or less the same results, but faster and with less consistency.

Chamber 2:

This was a 3/4 full load. Fine grind, light tamp.

Fresh.

DSCF2767.jpg

First hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 OFF 15 16 17 18 19 20 Stop - Vapor light, super great taste

DSCF2768.jpg

Second hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 OFF 16 17 18 19 20 Stop - Vapor medium, great taste

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Third hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 OFF 18 19 20 21 22 Stop - Vapor medium, great taste

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Fourth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 15 17 OFF 18 19 20 21 22 23 Stop - Vapor medium, good taste

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Fifth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Stop - Vapor medium/light, minimal taste

DSCF2772.jpg

Sixth hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Stop - Vapor light, minimal taste

DSCF2773.jpg

Dumped it out. Top of the chamber is on the right, bottom of the chamber is on the left. Slight gradient still. But it feels cashed to me.

DSCF2774.jpg

I re-loaded the herb, stirred, and did another few hits trying to get more out of it, but no vapor.

I dumped it out a second time, pretty much the same.

DSCF2776.jpg

To be continued....
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Chamber 3:

This was a 1/2 load. Fine grind, almost no tamp, just enough to keep the herb from falling out.

I also installed glass cooling beads for this session, so you'll notice I take longer hits. No noticeable heat in the throat during this session.

Fresh.

DSCF2777.jpg

First hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 OFF 18 19 20 21 Stop - Vapor light, super great taste

DSCF2778.jpg

Second hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 OFF 24 25 26 Stop - Vapor very heavy, great taste

DSCF2779.jpg

Third hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 OFF 24 26 Stop - Vapor heavy, good taste

DSCF2780.jpg

Third hit: ON 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Inhale 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 OFF 24 26 27 Stop - Vapor very light, no taste

DSCF2781.jpg

I dumped it out. Top of the chamber on the right, bottom of the chamber on the left. Much less of a gradient, hardly any. I think the looser pack helped to get more airflow down into the bottom corners of the chamber. So, I'm going to be doing more loose packing now!

DSCF2782.jpg

Out of curiosity, I took the ABV from the last two sessions, combined them, and loaded it all into a dynavap to see if I could extract any more vapor. I was also curious to see the colour difference between ABV out of a hybrid device like the dynavap, compared to that out of the convection powered Nomad.

I ran the herb through three heat cycles, and extracted two more hits with a decent amount of vapor. Last hit gave almost no vapor with that hot 'cashed' feeling. Practically no taste at all to any of the hits, and very minimal effects. The herb came out much more brown. When looking down into the dynavap tip the ABV appears fairly dark brown under normal indoor lighting conditions.... but when spread out under bright studio lights the green tends to show more.

This is the dumped ABV after the above dynavap session.

DSCF2783.jpg

So, there we have it!

With 1/2 chamber loads and light tamps, which is what I do maybe 90% of the time, I didn't find a benefit to stirring.

With 3/4 - full chamber loads, for best taste all the way through a session, I found there was a benefit to stirring between the second last, and the last hit... to get one last good hit out of the load.

With a light tamp and full chamber load, you can get full extraction without stirring, but I think you sacrifice taste, since you'll likely have to overheat the top slightly to get the required heat down into the very bottom of the chamber.
 

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Dan. The conversation definitely seems to be one that's being arrived at from different perspectives. Your images tend to correlate pretty closely to my convection vape experience. That is, things eventually get extracted (granted enough heat is applied) but not necessarily looking perfectly evenly baked hit after hit. Some areas bake sooner and more thoroughly than others. Some users seem to want this not to be the case and I tend to believe that it is the case whether one wants it to be or not.

Another distinction to be made after seeing your images is the degree to which users bake their material. I tend to take my material to a higher level of bakedness than you do, from what I see. Perhaps when one takes the extra draw or two, the distinction between dark and darker is more obvious than it is with less throoughly baked material, leading users to think that, even though good, throrough extraction has indeed taken place, something is wrong because there is an uneven coloring in the baked material.

The material being vaporized is not physicaly uniform and no one should expect - regardless the vaporizer - that it behave as uniform material. Perfect eveness in the coloring of baked material should not be the holy grail here. Nor should the idea that a stir is a sign of failure. Imo with a quick stir you could have gotten better extraction from your material with the Nomad than you did by running it through the second vaporizer ;)
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
As was the case with nearly all vapes I used and compared to other North American users: every time someone say they cash their bowl in vape X in about 6 hits, I cash mine in same vape X in about 30+ smaller hits. And that is for the same measured material quantity (when they gave a weight, I weighted the same to be consistent on my side) And I doubt it's a difference in product quality.

This has been true even for conduction vapes like the Ascent or FlowerMates. Long story short, my ABV looks more done and uniform than in these pictures that's for sure! The slower and the longer you extract, the better. Now I understand not everyone enjoys 15-20 minutes vaping sessions, but the beauty of on demand convection is that you can pause and rest the device on your desk between hits, keep working a bit then grab it later etc...

I view my vapes and use them more like a spliff, or a cigarette. Whereas a lot of North American come more from a heavy hits - cash it fast perspective, more similar to bong rips (or even cashing bowls through glassware without any water) I've often expressed that it feels like a fundamental cultural difference to me (but it's in no way a form of criticism, you guys enjoy your ritual the way you prefer, I got nothing to object!)
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the great pics and detailed session info @Dan Morrison ! I was a little worried by the earlier pics and discussion, but I do appreciate hearing everyone’s experiences and I’m glad this discussion got started.

Although I knew that it didn’t necessarily indicate anything very bad, I really prefer to avoid overcooked spots. I’m happy to see confirmation that I can avoid them without stirring since that’s relatively difficult to do in portables.

I like the overall lighter AVB too. I know some people think it has to be nearly black to be well extracted, but even in a conduction heater I wouldn’t go that far, and for convection these pictures look good to me.

I’m also happy to hear other people’s experiences, and I think I’m going to give @KeroZen ’s style a shot too! Any rough estimates of pre-heat, draw and post-button-release draw lengths?

@namasteIII Another thing to consider is that Dan has previously mentioned improved results with more uniform material, so if you can sift it after grinding and avoid using the finest ground flower in the same loads as the coarser stuff that may help too.

I don’t think that’s a requirement, but in my other convection devices I do notice a difference in how even the extraction is and how much stirring matters when I don’t have a very uniform grind.

If anyone else wants to share their experiences and how they get the best results this is a great spot in the thread to share! :)
 
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Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@GetLeft , As a vape maker, the colour and 'evenness' of the abv is certainly something I've been obsessing over for a long time. Vaporizers, being a relatively new thing, are still evolving quickly. And the techniques involved are evolving even quicker it seems. In the marketplace, there are a lot of trends and marketing strategies floating around. This seems to make things... complicated.

I think its helpful to shed my expectations of what 'fully extracted' looks like, and instead try to feel out my own way with each unique vaporizer and herb strain.

@KeroZen I'm definitely going to try out your style and report back!

@VaporWare I am with you on the 'overcooked spots'. IMO this does indicate uneven heat application. Where it becomes noticeable in the quality of the vapor could be disputed for sure. And when it shows up during a session also plays a big role. Obviously you wouldn't want to taint a fresh chamber by scorching it on the first hit. But a little extra browning on the last hit might be perfectly acceptable.

I was actually quite surprised to see the amount of green in these photos. When under normal indoor lights this same abv looks pretty much straw/light brown. But under these bright lights, colour balanced, the green is very much enhanced. Just goes to show that you can't trust photos on the internet. Un-colour balanced, I could make these appear brown, but that wouldn't be 'scientific' hahah. This was also a high CBD strain which, in my experience with this particular strain, produces less vapor and tends to finish up a little lighter.

Convection heating does come with it's own unique set of challenges as well. If you just consider the thermodynamics of it all... it's clear to see why the top of a chamber gets more cooked than the bottom. The game is to shoot for that balancing point where the heat application is optimized for the most full extraction vs. overheated top layer. This is my style, the no stir style.

Grind consistency and pack does play a role in airflow, and that air carries the heat...so it would make sense that more even airflow = more even heating.

For loading the stem, the 'suck it up into the chamber' method seems to pack the chamber tighter, especially near the bottom. So I like to sprinkle my material into the chamber instead.

If I am feeling extra fancy... sifting ground herb into an ultra-consistent grind size, sprinkle packing the chamber, and super light tamping will produce the best performance. But I almost never take the time to sift. Maybe a little sifter/loading funnel accessory is in order, haha.

Looking to place vaporizers in some sort of larger context, I always come back to the well established worlds of coffee and tea. Both of these practices involve extraction, and the 'fullness' or method of extraction varies by technique and personal style.

One interesting thing to note is that you almost never see coffee/tea being fully extracted. To take the half-spent coffee grounds out of your coffee maker and boil them to extract another cup of coffee would be madness! Yet I imagine that last cup of coffee would look like a cup of coffee, and give some caffein effect.

It's just interesting to note where these similar practices have ended up and then try to imagine where the future of vaporizing will go.

___

I think the Nomad is akin to pour-over coffee and an electric kettle, it's not exactly the most basic way to make coffee, but it's close. It's just coffee, the vessel, and hot water.... but start to go down this path and you'll find a huge variety of personal styles, grind consistencies, temperatures, techniques, etc..

The closer you get to the fully automatic coffee maker, the closer you get to consistency in your cup right out of the box, but the further you get from personal expression/exploration.

On the other hand, someone with practice can make perfectly consistent coffee with a pour-over rig... but the question is whether or not that process fits into your life.

Perhaps when someone asks what vaporizer they should get, you should ask them, who do you want to be? :lol: Okay I've gone too deep now!
 
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Vaporware

Well-Known Member
That’s an interesting comparison to think about. I’m sure that cost and legal restrictions have played a large part in making people push for full extraction here when they don’t with coffee, tea, etc.

Maybe as prohibition weakens we’ll start to see less emphasis on it. I know I’ve seen some people on here who grow their own talk about dumping loads as soon as the taste starts to degrade because they have more than they need, but many still complain about having to buy and stretch out small amounts of whatever their dealer likes.

I still think that getting the most out of our materials is a good thing, but if I bother to get the last wisps out of flower it never seems worth the trouble and the effects don’t tend to be very good.

There are larger, more powerful heaters and vaporizers that take no technique out there, but the simplicity and personalization of the unregulated convection experience combined with the ability to throw new heaters and batteries into the mix makes me think that whether or not a Nomad style device is ever mainstream, it should have a place with the right people for many years to come.

To that end, while I know you’re busy right now I do hope that eventually you get to finish not only the medium heater but some other designs too!

I’ve seen some in sketches you posted and I’ve thought about some possibilities too. I’m not sure which would still work, but the interchangeable heater system is a very cool aspect of the Nomad and I’d love to see it more fully explored at some point. :)

Do you know if anyone else has tried to make a Nomad heater yet? Are all of the necessary specs out there?

I’m glad to know that you find the sifting optional, but if I can find a good way to do it I’ll try anyway. I also need to figure out how to sprinkle load it without making a mess... :sherlock:
 
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