covercash
Cloud EVO + MFLBPA
He was moving workshops at some point this summer.
The Nomad From Morwood
- Thread starter Dan Morrison
- Start date
I'm still here! At the cottage right now... but always thinking..dreaming..breathing this new vape project. I just spent a couple hours this afternoon sketching designs down by the creek.
I will post some new concept stuff later in the week.
I've been trying to focus mostly on the heater design.
Definitely like the laser cut disc ideas, I had the same thing in mind! You could stack a bunch in a column, separated by a wafer thin washer made from insulative material. I imagine that you could swap out disc materials, or the number of discs, and get different vaping characteristics. A disc made from a more resistive material could allow for longer heat up times and cooler vaping temperatures, perhaps for group sessions where you dont want to wory about beginners combusting.
The swappable heater idea has really stuck with me. Since the stem and battery can be swapped and upgraded, it only makes sense that the heater should be too. With new tech advancements, the vape will remain up to date.
I will post some new concept stuff later in the week.
I've been trying to focus mostly on the heater design.
Definitely like the laser cut disc ideas, I had the same thing in mind! You could stack a bunch in a column, separated by a wafer thin washer made from insulative material. I imagine that you could swap out disc materials, or the number of discs, and get different vaping characteristics. A disc made from a more resistive material could allow for longer heat up times and cooler vaping temperatures, perhaps for group sessions where you dont want to wory about beginners combusting.
The swappable heater idea has really stuck with me. Since the stem and battery can be swapped and upgraded, it only makes sense that the heater should be too. With new tech advancements, the vape will remain up to date.
I do really love the idea of a modular heater. Makes the vape both customizable and future-proof.
How would the heater be mounted and how would the leads attach to the heater? Designing something that is easily changed by the user but also keeps any electronics isolated form the air path seems challenging.
Any idea what kind of airpath you're going to do? Will the heater cover be glass, ceramic, stainless steel?
How would the heater be mounted and how would the leads attach to the heater? Designing something that is easily changed by the user but also keeps any electronics isolated form the air path seems challenging.
Any idea what kind of airpath you're going to do? Will the heater cover be glass, ceramic, stainless steel?
That's the challenge @ZC . Think about how the e-cig world does it, with leads going into post holes and then secured via a grub screw... This mechanical connection seems to work fine.
I don't want the posts though, so it would be a different connection style, the entire chamber design of an e-cig is just not suited to our needs. I want more of a tubular chamber.
You could go a few different ways with the swappable heater core. The most exciting and easy to use, I think, would be to use little ready made heater core tubes. You insert the battery shaped heater tube (which is more or less a hollow tube of insulative material, with the heater inside) into the heater core chamber of the vape, then screw in a backing plate that would sinch down on the heater core, locking it in place. The positive and negative terminals would be set up to make solid contact when the heater core is inserted. A design challenge for sure, but not too difficult to imagine.
This way you could have a few heater cores all ready to go, and swap em out based on what sort of experience you wanted. I like this idea more than having to 'rebuild' the heater element inside the body of the vape...making it very difficult to change on the fly.
The airway will be all glass. Herb chamber and stem all in one straight tube, nothing fancy. And no need to isolate electronics from air path, because there will be non. Only hard connections between battery, fire button, and heater.
I like the idea of the battery itself being another point of heat control. Perhaps you could swap out a low capacity, high drain 18650, for a high capacity, low drain 18650. Then swap out your fast hard hitting convection coil, for a sort of stove top flat disc conduction heater... then insert the glass stem/herb chamber till the herb chamber comes in contact with the heater disc..and then you could have a slow mellow conduction sesh... if you were into that sorta thing.
Just spitballin' ideas here... who knows if it can be done in a practical design.
I don't want the posts though, so it would be a different connection style, the entire chamber design of an e-cig is just not suited to our needs. I want more of a tubular chamber.
You could go a few different ways with the swappable heater core. The most exciting and easy to use, I think, would be to use little ready made heater core tubes. You insert the battery shaped heater tube (which is more or less a hollow tube of insulative material, with the heater inside) into the heater core chamber of the vape, then screw in a backing plate that would sinch down on the heater core, locking it in place. The positive and negative terminals would be set up to make solid contact when the heater core is inserted. A design challenge for sure, but not too difficult to imagine.
This way you could have a few heater cores all ready to go, and swap em out based on what sort of experience you wanted. I like this idea more than having to 'rebuild' the heater element inside the body of the vape...making it very difficult to change on the fly.
The airway will be all glass. Herb chamber and stem all in one straight tube, nothing fancy. And no need to isolate electronics from air path, because there will be non. Only hard connections between battery, fire button, and heater.
I like the idea of the battery itself being another point of heat control. Perhaps you could swap out a low capacity, high drain 18650, for a high capacity, low drain 18650. Then swap out your fast hard hitting convection coil, for a sort of stove top flat disc conduction heater... then insert the glass stem/herb chamber till the herb chamber comes in contact with the heater disc..and then you could have a slow mellow conduction sesh... if you were into that sorta thing.
Just spitballin' ideas here... who knows if it can be done in a practical design.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
NOW that's what I call innovation! vol. 31
Told y'all, @Dan Morrison is just on another level thinking about this, not gonna do what's been done. Ah the beauty of the concept stage
Told y'all, @Dan Morrison is just on another level thinking about this, not gonna do what's been done. Ah the beauty of the concept stage
pandaphysics
Well-Known Member
This is very interesting, definitely want to keep my eyes on this.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
But why would you want to change the heater when you can just adjust its power and temperature? You're trying to solve with a complex hardware design something that could be solved more easily on the software side I think.
Do you have specific use cases in mind?
You could have a dual heater with one element producing conduction heat and the other producing convection, coupled with presets on the controller side to select the relative percentage of each.
It's tempting to try to create the ultimate vape covering all scenarios, but you know what they say... "jack of all trades, master of none..."
Do you have specific use cases in mind?
You could have a dual heater with one element producing conduction heat and the other producing convection, coupled with presets on the controller side to select the relative percentage of each.
It's tempting to try to create the ultimate vape covering all scenarios, but you know what they say... "jack of all trades, master of none..."
@KeroZen
I think the advantage here is that it doesn't have to be a jack-off-all trades.
A modular design allows for one heater to start with, and maybe that's fine for one user forever. But it also means if Dan upgrades or changes the heater, you can upgrade your unit without buying an entirely new vape. Or you could potentially design your own heater, like how ecig enthusiasts make their own coils.
That way the base design doesn't need to be a jack of all trades, it can be good at one thing, but have the possibility for more.
@Dan Morrison
I like a lot of where this is going. Really excited to see where you take this.
I think the advantage here is that it doesn't have to be a jack-off-all trades.
A modular design allows for one heater to start with, and maybe that's fine for one user forever. But it also means if Dan upgrades or changes the heater, you can upgrade your unit without buying an entirely new vape. Or you could potentially design your own heater, like how ecig enthusiasts make their own coils.
That way the base design doesn't need to be a jack of all trades, it can be good at one thing, but have the possibility for more.
@Dan Morrison
I like a lot of where this is going. Really excited to see where you take this.
FreddieFresh
Well-Known Member
I really like the sound of this, also. If an issue arises it should be an easy fix for the user. I would imagine that with no need to return the vape for warranty repairs it could cut down costs all around
@KeroZen , I hear what you're saying, and of course this could be done, it's how many vapes do it now, and it no doubt works nicely. Why change out a heater for just a temperature change, that's a good point.
But the ability to swap out heaters for different temperature zones would, I think, be more of an auxillary function, a bonus feature. I would assume that most people would just keep the heater as stock. The main advantages are, analog design, user serviceability, and upgradeability.
A mechanical box mod would be similar functionally, but much different in form, which is where it counts I think. The coils and building platforms are just not optimized for us. And I imagine ready made heaters, ready to just pop in, specifically designed for this vape, for heating air.
But I guess you could also swap in an e-cig like coil heater core, and drip feed the liquid down the glass stem, essentially giving you a mech mod.
Sure it'd be pretty much the same (sort of) to just design a convection heater to go onto a 510 connector, and be done with it. But where is the fun in that?!
But the ability to swap out heaters for different temperature zones would, I think, be more of an auxillary function, a bonus feature. I would assume that most people would just keep the heater as stock. The main advantages are, analog design, user serviceability, and upgradeability.
A mechanical box mod would be similar functionally, but much different in form, which is where it counts I think. The coils and building platforms are just not optimized for us. And I imagine ready made heaters, ready to just pop in, specifically designed for this vape, for heating air.
But I guess you could also swap in an e-cig like coil heater core, and drip feed the liquid down the glass stem, essentially giving you a mech mod.
Sure it'd be pretty much the same (sort of) to just design a convection heater to go onto a 510 connector, and be done with it. But where is the fun in that?!
NickDlow
Log Hog
I like this direction!
Dan is truly a vape genius
and will undoubtedly come up with another one of a kind vape. I know I'm in on this regardless. Keep those wheels turning @Dan Morrison!
Thanks for bringing me here!!!
NickDlow
Log Hog
After 2+ years I finally get to show you something haha. Enjoy the read, it's a good one, as expected from Dan.
virtualpurple
Well-Known Member
@Dan Morrison how the hell did I forget about this thread?!
Been catching up, love the wheels turning inside your head man, I'm all about it!
Been catching up, love the wheels turning inside your head man, I'm all about it!
Okay, So I've been refining...and refining..and refining, thinking more about manufacturing, and I decided to change things a bit. Now I have wood top and bottom plates, with a center section of either steel... or my kraft paper laminate material.
Here's what I can't decide on... If I go with steel, I would need to comply with the standard steel tube sizes. 2" Wide x 1" Deep outside diameter. The corner will also have a radius.. but perhaps not as much as I would like. These dimensions feel OK in the hand, but perhaps a TINY bit boxy for my liking. But that could fit the vibe as well...
If I went with a kraft paper laminate middle section, I would be able to use the same milk paint techniques that I'm doing now with the Okin boxes, as well as custom paint. If finely sanded, the milk paint is buttery smooth to the touch, and would feel very nice in the hand. I could also get the exact dimensions that I wanted, with the perfect corner radius.
Below is a concept showing three examples. Left = Steel (blue/black Patina), Middle = Raw Kraft paper, Right = Kraft paper + Custom milk Paint
As you can see, the design is a bit more minimal compared to my last, more photo-realistic, render. But this is a more accurate representation of what I could realisticaly craft at a decent price point, while still retaining the details that help give it that space vape vibe I want.
The LED light strip feel like a must-have for me, but I'm still not quite sure how I will fit it in there.. I will have a "lock" for the fire button, either locking the button physically, or breaking the circuit from the button. Ideally I would like to have the LED light strip illuminate when the button lock is disengaged, showing that the vape is on and ready to go. It will most likely be one white LED, behind a coloured plastic diffuser. My back up plan is abalone or gemstone inlay to create the illusion of a light. Tritium inlay would also be cool, but too pricey. Glow in the dark material is a bit lame.
Also, of course still working on the heater, the most important part!
Thoughts?
Kraft paper: warm, soft, lightweight, organic vibe
Steel: cold, hard, industrial vibe, durable
Here's what I can't decide on... If I go with steel, I would need to comply with the standard steel tube sizes. 2" Wide x 1" Deep outside diameter. The corner will also have a radius.. but perhaps not as much as I would like. These dimensions feel OK in the hand, but perhaps a TINY bit boxy for my liking. But that could fit the vibe as well...
If I went with a kraft paper laminate middle section, I would be able to use the same milk paint techniques that I'm doing now with the Okin boxes, as well as custom paint. If finely sanded, the milk paint is buttery smooth to the touch, and would feel very nice in the hand. I could also get the exact dimensions that I wanted, with the perfect corner radius.
Below is a concept showing three examples. Left = Steel (blue/black Patina), Middle = Raw Kraft paper, Right = Kraft paper + Custom milk Paint
As you can see, the design is a bit more minimal compared to my last, more photo-realistic, render. But this is a more accurate representation of what I could realisticaly craft at a decent price point, while still retaining the details that help give it that space vape vibe I want.
The LED light strip feel like a must-have for me, but I'm still not quite sure how I will fit it in there.. I will have a "lock" for the fire button, either locking the button physically, or breaking the circuit from the button. Ideally I would like to have the LED light strip illuminate when the button lock is disengaged, showing that the vape is on and ready to go. It will most likely be one white LED, behind a coloured plastic diffuser. My back up plan is abalone or gemstone inlay to create the illusion of a light. Tritium inlay would also be cool, but too pricey. Glow in the dark material is a bit lame.
Also, of course still working on the heater, the most important part!
Thoughts?
Kraft paper: warm, soft, lightweight, organic vibe
Steel: cold, hard, industrial vibe, durable
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I think the material should liberate your artistry, not limit it.
NickDlow
Log Hog
Okay, So I've been refining...and refining..and refining, thinking more about manufacturing, and I decided to change things a bit. Now I have wood top and bottom plates, with a center section of either steel... or my kraft paper laminate material.
Here's what I can't decide on... If I go with steel, I would need to comply with the standard steel tube sizes. 2" Wide x 1" Deep outside diameter. The corner will also have a radius.. but perhaps not as much as I would like. These dimensions feel OK in the hand, but perhaps a TINY bit boxy for my liking. But that could fit the vibe as well...
If I went with a kraft paper laminate middle section, I would be able to use the same milk paint techniques that I'm doing now with the Okin boxes, as well as custom paint. If finely sanded, the milk paint is buttery smooth to the touch, and would feel very nice in the hand. I could also get the exact dimensions that I wanted, with the perfect corner radius.
Below is a concept showing three examples. Left = Steel (blue/black Patina), Middle = Raw Kraft paper, Right = Kraft paper + Custom milk Paint
As you can see, the design is a bit more minimal compared to my last, more photo-realistic, render. But this is a more accurate representation of what I could realisticaly craft at a decent price point, while still retaining the details that help give it that space vape vibe I want.
The LED light strip feel like a must-have for me, but I'm still not quite sure how I will fit it in there.. I will have a "lock" for the fire button, either locking the button physically, or breaking the circuit from the button. Ideally I would like to have the LED light strip illuminate when the button lock is disengaged, showing that the vape is on and ready to go. It will most likely be one white LED, behind a coloured plastic diffuser. My back up plan is abalone or gemstone inlay to create the illusion of a light. Tritium inlay would also be cool, but too pricey. Glow in the dark material is a bit lame.
Also, of course still working on the heater, the most important part!
Thoughts?
Kraft paper: warm, soft, lightweight, organic vibe
Steel: cold, hard, industrial vibe, durable
I love the Kraft paper look over the steel but over time would your sweat and oils from your hand ware out that material?
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Same concerns and questions about that intriguing kraft paper finish... But I second Sticks here, it would be wildly more artistic... and since you seem to enjoy beautiful things...
Now to bring us all down back to Earth, don't forget that thermal design considerations might be what ultimately dictates what material you can or cannot use.
Now to bring us all down back to Earth, don't forget that thermal design considerations might be what ultimately dictates what material you can or cannot use.
Kalessin
Well-Known Member
I'm so glad we're moving back towards a look more like the older electric design. The more camera-esque design was cool, but I like the cleanness of this betterOkay, So I've been refining...and refining..and refining, thinking more about manufacturing, and I decided to change things a bit. Now I have wood top and bottom plates, with a center section of either steel... or my kraft paper laminate material.
Here's what I can't decide on... If I go with steel, I would need to comply with the standard steel tube sizes. 2" Wide x 1" Deep outside diameter. The corner will also have a radius.. but perhaps not as much as I would like. These dimensions feel OK in the hand, but perhaps a TINY bit boxy for my liking. But that could fit the vibe as well...
If I went with a kraft paper laminate middle section, I would be able to use the same milk paint techniques that I'm doing now with the Okin boxes, as well as custom paint. If finely sanded, the milk paint is buttery smooth to the touch, and would feel very nice in the hand. I could also get the exact dimensions that I wanted, with the perfect corner radius.
Below is a concept showing three examples. Left = Steel (blue/black Patina), Middle = Raw Kraft paper, Right = Kraft paper + Custom milk Paint
As you can see, the design is a bit more minimal compared to my last, more photo-realistic, render. But this is a more accurate representation of what I could realisticaly craft at a decent price point, while still retaining the details that help give it that space vape vibe I want.
The LED light strip feel like a must-have for me, but I'm still not quite sure how I will fit it in there.. I will have a "lock" for the fire button, either locking the button physically, or breaking the circuit from the button. Ideally I would like to have the LED light strip illuminate when the button lock is disengaged, showing that the vape is on and ready to go. It will most likely be one white LED, behind a coloured plastic diffuser. My back up plan is abalone or gemstone inlay to create the illusion of a light. Tritium inlay would also be cool, but too pricey. Glow in the dark material is a bit lame.
Also, of course still working on the heater, the most important part!
Thoughts?
Kraft paper: warm, soft, lightweight, organic vibe
Steel: cold, hard, industrial vibe, durable
@KeroZen , Right you are. But the Kraft paper laminate should have a fairly high temperature resistance, not as durable as steel of course. And steel would last indefinitely, while kraft paper would have a lifespan.. though a long one.
@Kalessin , I agree!
It might come down to the fact that making those kraft paper laminates takes a long time. It's all manual labor that can't be done with a jig.
And you could always paint the steel... hmm.
@Kalessin , I agree!
It might come down to the fact that making those kraft paper laminates takes a long time. It's all manual labor that can't be done with a jig.
And you could always paint the steel... hmm.