The MMA Discussion Dojo

[jklasd]

uhh, tito fight was fairly close, he was never finished like evans or sokoudjou and im pretty sure he got cut from the ufc for being beat too many times without a win. tito and soko are not hard victories to achieve seeing how tito, as i said, is not the legit contender he use to be, and soko has no defense. evans is the only one up there to me that will give problems to anyone and thats why i feel the win over evans is a great starting point for lyoto to show his p4p presence, just not at 4. maybe 7-8. i dont discredit any of his wins, all great wins. just not as high level competition that should warrent you to say hes the best fighter on the go, or a number p4p spot.
rampage is a good fighter. he wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't. that fight with griffin was insanely close. beside that fight, he hasn't lost in the ufc to liddell, hendo, and wand. all great fighters with great careers. liddell was still atop the LHW division so none of this- hes on his way out- bullshit either, wasn't til after that fight. wand, while not great in the ufc, has face nothing but STIFF competition since joining.

 

[Pseudonymous]

No, you're completely wrong there. It was his last contracted fight and him and Dana were being dramatic. If what you said was correct (and again, it isn't), then Tito would not be back in the UFC. It was drama. It had nothing to do with his performance.

It's probably best we drop that topic though. We aren't going to convince each other. It just won't happen.

I think Rampage isn't just a good fighter, I think he's a great fighter. You can't have the same success he has had without being great. He has become more one-dimensional, though. It's a horrible match-up for him, as well. And hey, Rampage is even scared of Machida. When he was champ, he said he wanted nothing to do with Machida. Most fighters did, actually, because Machida is sickly good.

Tito was one of the only guys who had the balls to face Machida (had to put one last comment in there )

 

[jklasd]

you misunderstood, i meant soko got cut.
its not about convincing, at least to me. a good discussion can go on for a while, and debating lyoto as the best fighter out there is very much a good discussion.
you shouldn't not have said that he doesn't impress you without stating that you think hes great. but one dimesnional or not, those dimensions are winning for him, beside he lone lost to griffin. and griffin was always in trouble of it . thats his gameplan for these people. liddell, griffin, wand, and jardine are not going to take it down (because i dont think they be able too). and if rampage feels like hes winning on the feet, let it stay there. the only person to take it down is a fellow wrestler in hendo. why not stand and strike? hes winning. and rampage has never kicked. this is like bj. he doesn't kick, let smokes strikers. why change your style on the feet if its winning? is it a disadvantage to not kick? fuck yes, its damn near moronic to not kick in mma when your legs and feet are powerful weapons. but his boxing works for him. hence the 4 wins in fight 5. and please source rampage is scared of machida, because if its not sourced, its opinion because he decided rashad over machida. unless you know his reasons, you cannot say hes scared. perhaps he really wants to fuck up rashad before the belt. and source other fighters turning down the match as well. you can find that, because lebans camp turned down a swick matchup after TUF1. those things are out there.
dont forget that griffin was also going to face him and got hurt.

 

[Pseudonymous]

A while ago when he was the champion, he was asked about Machida and he said he wanted nothing to do with Machida. This part I am unsure of, but I believe Forrest was another person who voiced a similar opinion. Perhaps "being afraid" seems too harsh for various reasons, but I think it may be less controversial if I said that Rampage felt very unconfident about facing Machida. As for a source? Well, you don't have to believe me. This isn't formal (or important) enough for me to source it. I'm positive about it though, as I'm not the only person I know who remembers it. But you bring up the present, and in addition to his past comments, I really feel it adds validity. If you don't want to believe me, I'm fine with that. I'm not here to lie, I have nothing to gain from that at all, but I have time and effort to lose in doing that research.

Perhaps it isn't about convincing. But by way of Tito at least, there doesn't even really seem to be any progress made and we seem to disagree fundamentally. I don't consider the view that Tito is trash as valid and you don't consider the view that Tito is still top competition as valid. I agree that Machida was a horrible match-up for Tito and that it played into Machida's style. But it's still a big name win, and I believe a legitimate one. Hell, Tito almost triangled him and would have were it not for the massive amounts of sweat.

Back to the Rampage topic, an important difference is that BJ knows how to check leg kicks and has a far more diverse game.

 

[jklasd]

i never said tito was trash. i said hes no longer top competition and hasnt been for a while besides his shamrock wins and griffin win. hes a gatekeeper as SM said .
checking kicks is pureply defence, i was taking offence. but i do agree rampage not havin that defence is insanely stupid.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Off topic but here are some of the best entrances in MMA - man, I miss seeing events in Japan - Genki Sudo is da maaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/ca...t=AmH6wQmQlPGc7fnpskY42d89Eo14?urn=mma,181657

I can't confirm sources but I do recall an interview with Griffin saying that he didn't want to fight Lyoto.

Also, for me, maybe I'm reading into it too much, but I think Rampage opting to coach TUF instead of fighting Lyoto says it all. After the TUF season with Forrest and Quinton, he said he would NEVER coach that show again, but here he is. People have told me that he must've received a ridiculous amount of money but I think being the champ allows you to make the most money overall. After the Jardine fight, he was to fight the winner of Evans/Lyoto, I never heard of someone opting OUT of a title shot....either that or he just wants to beat Evan's ass that much....who really knows.

As for Rampage not checking kicks, 100% agreed, but his ability to parry punches is GREAT. Too bad he can't add just that extra wrinkle into his game, his opponents know nothing is coming in the way of kicks, which is why I think Forrest was able to take the title from him. He could kick without any recourse.

 

[NoSmoke]

I have to throw this out there... Is Christine Cyborg on steroids? Man I felt so bad for Carano, but also felt she gave in too early. And she wasn't really out, just in a bad position. But you could tell from the start that she couldn't handle her blows.

 

[owin]

Carano looked like she was in slow motion. Made way too many mistakes. Cyborg is like a juiced up female(?) version of wanderlei.

 

[Pseudonymous]

I have to throw this out there... Is Christine Cyborg on steroids? Man I felt so bad for Carano, but also felt she gave in too early. And she wasn't really out, just in a bad position. But you could tell from the start that she couldn't handle her blows.

She looks like she is physically.

 

[stonemonkey55]

That was painful to watch but the better fighter one. Not sure if Cyborg is on roids or not, wouldn't surprise me, but her aggression was very reminiscent of a young Wanderlei Silva. Carano will be back and women's MMA will live but it's gonna be tough for me to get the image of Carano in a fetal position getting her face smashed in out of my mind.

Gegard Mousasi has arrived, damn I wish the UFC signed this guy cause he is a legit contender to Anderson Silva in the middleweight division. Too bad he's tied up in Japan doing the Super Hulk tournament

 

[Pseudonymous]

The better fighter at the time always wins, but I don't think the most skilled fighter won. Look at Cyborg's "takedowns." They were disgusting and 100% brute force, which is why Carano could land on top as often as she did.

Mousasi isn't too legit of a MW challenger though because he's growing physically and getting bigger and bigger. He has said that making middleweight is getting far too difficult, hence why he is moving up.

 

[stonemonkey55]

thats the great thing about MMA, the better fighter doesn't always have to be the more skilled fighter. Sometimes tenacity and savage onslaught overcomes any technical advantage that your opponent may have. Carano obviously hasn't been pushed like that before and crumbled under the pressure. Its always tough to measure heart, not saying Carano doesn't have any, but Cyborg was able to break her spirit fairly easily. Hopefully womens MMA doesn't take a dive just cause their covergirl took a loss.

 

[jklasd]

i just watched it. wow that was brutal. i read how the fight went down and it was completely different. it seemed more even when reading, but gina got beat the fuck down. after 2 minutes, she looked like she wanted out. good stoppage by the ref. i disagree saying gina is the more technical fighter though. cyborg boxing is amazing. very straight punches and her GnP is also very technical. keeps her weight on her opponent so she cant move and throws her punches right down the middle in between her opponents arms. her GnP in this fight was more to the side, but she kept gina from moving. this is exactly what i thought would happen. gina is a tough chick, but cyborg is on another level.

 

[Pseudonymous]

Cyborg has proven to be a dishonest cheater in the past and she looks more manly than an athletic woman should (this is not an issue of me commenting on her level of attractiveness), so I have very little reason to believe that she isn't 'roiding now.

 

[owin]

Cyborg was a beast and had way more intensity no question about that, but Gina by far is/was a more technical fighter. Only problem was she didn't follow the gameplan and looked scared shitless. She had everything to lose. Definitely had a mental breakdown. She needs to get back in the gym, get some more fights, and she will be back. Now let's see Toughill vs. Cyborg. That would be entertaining and apparently it seems like the most obvious choice.

How about Mousasi though? That guy is a beast. Babalu is on his way out but still that was a bad KO. 1 minute in and eyes rolling around. Mousasi is like a lhw Fedor and young. Looking forward to seeing this guy some more and hopefully not just in the freakshow tournament for DREAM. Who else is there for him to even fight at LHW in strikeforce?

 

[Pseudonymous]

To answer your Mousasi question: absolutely anybody who isn't with the UFC currently. Strikeforce doesn't mind doing cross-promotion fights.

 

[owin]

To answer your Mousasi question: absolutely anybody who isn't with the UFC currently. Strikeforce doesn't mind doing cross-promotion fights.

That's true. But I can't think of who there is outside of the ufc in the LHW division that would be worth watching. King Mo maybe? I dunno I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

 

[jklasd]

i dont see gina as technical as most people say. shes obviously very skilled, but i dont see her as technical as cyborg. just my opinion.
pseudo- while not making weight is not actually fair, i find it hard to believe its cheating. if the other fighter agrees to continue the fight, then its not cheating. to look at her and say shes looks like shes on roids, without having any facts that she is, is prejudice. she fights in cali where they have an atheletic commission and if she was roiding, her test would say so.
as for mousasi, i feel bad for him because the best LHW are in the ufc. he looked very good, very calm. im not sure of the LHW outside the UFC, but id imagine after a couple more fights, hed have no one left if he won them. like seriously, bobby southworth was the champion before sobral.

 

[Pseudonymous]

To answer your Mousasi question: absolutely anybody who isn't with the UFC currently. Strikeforce doesn't mind doing cross-promotion fights.

That's true. But I can't think of who there is outside of the ufc in the LHW division that would be worth watching. King Mo maybe? I dunno I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Sometimes it's hard to be put on the spot. King Mo is a name I've heard being thrown around. What about Arona? Rogrio Nogueira? Sokoudjou?

i dont see gina as technical as most people say. shes obviously very skilled, but i dont see her as technical as cyborg. just my opinion.
pseudo- while not making weight is not actually fair, i find it hard to believe its cheating. if the other fighter agrees to continue the fight, then its not cheating. to look at her and say shes looks like shes on roids, without having any facts that she is, is prejudice. she fights in cali where they have an atheletic commission and if she was roiding, her test would say so.
as for mousasi, i feel bad for him because the best LHW are in the ufc. he looked very good, very calm. im not sure of the LHW outside the UFC, but id imagine after a couple more fights, hed have no one left if he won them. like seriously, bobby southworth was the champion before sobral.

From your statements, it is very easy to derive the opinion that the Athletic Commissions are infallible and always catch everyone. I doubt even the Athletic Commission would agree with that statement. Just look at her. She looks masculine. She almost definitely roids.

I also suggest you read up on her last fight. She undoubtedly tried to cheat -- are you saying that her camp messing with the calibration of the scale is not an attempt at cheating?

The only reason the Japanese fighter accepted to go through with the fight is because the organizers offered to make it "very worth her while."

Cyborg and her camp are cheaters. Plain and simple. Because of this and the fact that she actually looks manly, I doubt that using steroids is below them.

 

[NoSmoke]

I'll also add this, look at the size of her boyfriend and the size of his head. Dude is like the brazilian Barry Bonds!

 

[owin]

Cyborg portuguese for steroids?

And I would like to see sokoudjou vs. mousasi. Probably will see them eventually. They both are in super hulk tournament right?

 

[jklasd]

but your judgin her base on her looks. do you think david ortiz looked like user? a-rod? manny? you cant just base on your looks. if i see a black person, im not gonna lock my doors if im driving. its prejudice. her husband has also been tested and nothing from him. do you want people looking at you smoking weed and think you must be a lazy, drop-out, no job loser? until i see facts thats she using, i see no reason to ASSUME shes using.
i forgot about the scale. def cheat, but again, she accepted the fight. she did not cheat during the fight, therefore, it should end there. once a fighter agrees to fight someone with knowledge of their behavior, its no longer cheating. that simple.
yes the commission makes mistakes, but i highly doubt that cyborg would beat it 3 times, especially since its a drug that is hard to flush, and they test for flushing agents. this is not weed and nick diaz.

 

[Pseudonymous]

I think that's the next fight that is lined up for the SuperHulk Tournament, actually.

 

[jklasd]

id like to see that fight but i think mousasi will take it rather easily.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Just to be fair to Cyborg, Gina Carano has NEVER made weight before, this is the first time in her career.