The Magic-Flight Box

[paytonpenn]

I fully combusted in it. It scorched the trench badly. I was able to clean it with iso. But It is heavily bronzed. Pretty dark. It does seem to run differently from when I first got it and not as good. I will give you guys some pics very soon. I think that would be best. I need someone to take a look at this and tell me if it is cooked.

I've seen too many MFLBs combusted in, they just aren't going to be the expected performance and result in a overall poor experience for the user. I feel your MFLB is fine but it's got foul flavors in it and from my experience they aren't going to be completely removed. It also is now going to require more heating to perform like before. But I am interested in this pic.

 

[1flyfisher]

I grind in a chromium crusher than through the finishing grinder which brings it to a coarsness between salt and freshly ground pepper. This is what it looks like after 3-4 draws. It begins to taste like crap. It is still greenish and I know there is still thc left in it but it begins to taste gross. How many draws do you guys get off a trench? If I smoked a trench I would be very baked. I would say smoking a trench would be about 8-10 good hits. A trench packs my small bowl. That would get me ripped up twice easily. Now one trench barely gets me much.



Here you can see the gaps in the corners of the first pic and the bronze of the trench screen in the next pic..Actually this is the corner with the gaps being smaller than on the other side. The side with the draw hole has even bigger gaps.

 

[OF]

Yes this is my first vape.

I am not after anything other than effects.

It does seem to run differently from when I first got it and not as good.

Ah, so! I think a lot of this might be tied up right there. Blazing experience is not a plus here, you need a clean break from blazing (I'd say 10 days on average? Two weeks?) to 'get into vaping'. Two weeks with no cheating. Honest. Anyone disagree?

Then you get the effects you want (at least the ones available). I get it you're after effects, but everything you describe is in blazing terms (taste, density, and so on).

Learning vaping and the use of MFLB at the same time is a handful. Once you get used to vaping as a technique, learning new vapes is easy. IMO that's a necessary (and usually separate) step.

Boxes do then to 'cool off', but as long as they heat reasonably well (and it sounds like yours does) good technique will extract the THC and the owner will get full effect. If it goes in with the load and doesn't come out in ABV it came out as vapor.

It's worth seeing your photos, there could be something there, but from the descriptions it sure sounds like it. A new box might help some, but I don't think it's the solution to any hardware problem. At least not a disqualifying problem.

OF

 

[caves]

I grind in a chromium crusher than through the finishing grinder which brings it to a coarsness between salt and freshly ground pepper. This is what it looks like after 3-4 draws. It begins to taste like crap. It is still greenish and I know there is still thc left in it but it begins to taste gross. How many draws do you guys get off a trench? If I smoked a trench I would be very baked. I would say smoking a trench would be about 8-10 good hits. A trench packs my small bowl. That would get me ripped up twice easily. Now one trench barely gets me much.

-snip-

Here you can see the gaps in the corners of the first pic and the bronze of the trench screen in the next pic..Actually this is the corner with the gaps being smaller than on the other side. The side with the draw hole has even bigger gaps.

-snip-

Those images aren't working. Go to imgur.com and upload them there. You don't even have to set up an account if you don't want to.
It's tough to say what's causing your issues (especially without pictures), but technique is a huge factor.
Did you start off with the batteries that came with it? You said you were getting good effects early on but now things aren't working out. Something must have changed since then. Do you have any more information on those Duracell batteries you have? The launch box can be more picky than you'd imagine. If you're getting little production the first thing I'd consider is your batteries. Different batteries will also require a different technique. Cleaning the box with iso is a delicate procedure as well. How exactly did you clean your box after combusting in it? The most you ever want to do is gently swab the screen with a q-tip damp with iso. If you used too much and it soaked into the wood that may be causing the bad taste you're experiencing.

Vaping is also a much different high than smoking. If you're expecting to feel the same way you would after combusting in a pipe or bong, you're going to have to alter your expectations. Vape highs (especially from the MFLB) tend to be lighter and more cerebral than smoking highs. You won't get couchlock in nearly the same way. Like OF said, you might need a little bit of a break from smoking to really appreciate vaping to its full extent.

I personally get anywhere from 20-30 hits out of a trench (depending on how full it is, how long my draws are, how dry the material is, etc), and it'll only start to taste wonky towards the end. If you're truly not satisfied, send Magic-Flight an email and talk to them about it. They'll take care of you.

 

[1flyfisher]

Here's some more pics. You can see the gap on the sides. This is the draw side. On the left side it is separating and curling but it's hard to see..

 

[KidFated.]

Those folds in the screen are normal. Your box looks miles better than a lot of the ones I've seen.. I'd say you need better batteries or technique. The flavor will change through out the load.

 

[1flyfisher]

Those images aren't working. Go to imgur.com and upload them there. You don't even have to set up an account if you don't want to.
It's tough to say what's causing your issues (especially without pictures), but technique is a huge factor.
Did you start off with the batteries that came with it? You said you were getting good effects early on but now things aren't working out. Something must have changed since then. Do you have any more information on those Duracell batteries you have? The launch box can be more picky than you'd imagine. If you're getting little production the first thing I'd consider is your batteries. Different batteries will also require a different technique. Cleaning the box with iso is a delicate procedure as well. How exactly did you clean your box after combusting in it? The most you ever want to do is gently swab the screen with a q-tip damp with iso. If you used too much and it soaked into the wood that may be causing the bad taste you're experiencing.

Vaping is also a much different high than smoking. If you're expecting to feel the same way you would after combusting in a pipe or bong, you're going to have to alter your expectations. Vape highs (especially from the MFLB) tend to be lighter and more cerebral than smoking highs. You won't get couchlock in nearly the same way. Like OF said, you might need a little bit of a break from smoking to really appreciate vaping to its full extent.

I personally get anywhere from 20-30 hits out of a trench (depending on how full it is, how long my draws are, how dry the material is, etc), and it'll only start to taste wonky towards the end. If you're truly not satisfied, send Magic-Flight an email and talk to them about it. They'll take care of you.

Are you unable to see any pics? I uploaded them to photobucket and I see them all?
There is no noticeable difference in performance between the batterries that came with the unit and the duracells. I thought I explained that. The duracells are excellent batteries. I gently cleaned the screen wit iso with a q tip. I brush it lightly. Nothing I have done has caused the screen to come apart. When I heat the screen for 40-50 seconds to heat it up the screen metal expands and contracts. I just noticed this happening. SO when I use this thing when it heats up the gap opens and contracts and is growing larger. I am going to junk this box and get a new one. This should work correctly. I press in the battery and take long slow draws for about 30 seconds. I sip it and don't let it get hot. What more should I have to do? You guys get 20 hits? I barely get 3-4 and then it tastes like poison. It's going in the garbage.

Those folds in the screen are normal. Your box looks miles better than a lot of the ones I've seen.. I'd say you need better batteries or technique. The flavor will change through out the load.

I have two batteries that came with the unit! You're telling me they aren't any good? I have to buy special batteries?

 

[KidFated.]

I have two batteries that came with the unit! You're telling me they aren't any good? I have to buy special batteries?

What I meant by that, is the batteries get worn out, some more so than others. I have thrown a few away because they weren't with keeping around. I'm pretty sure I still have 2 from my original box that are still kickin, others haven't lasted nearly as long.

Do you have the power adapter?

 

[1flyfisher]

Also I have been vaping using this thing for over a month. I just recently back slid after being disappointed for the last week with it. I haven't smoked much. A few hits here and there the last week or so but prior to that I was just trying this thing out being all new and I was excited about it. It kinda works but doesn't seem to work as good as I thought it would. I will get a new one and see how that one does before I buy the pa or any more crap for this thing. PA is like $70. Duracells or Energizer or Rayovac are $10. Car power outlet for my 1-hour charger $25. Cha-ching....there goes my money.

What I meant by that, is the batteries get worn out, some more so than others. I have thrown a few away because they weren't with keeping around. I'm pretty sure I still have 2 from my original box that are still kickin, others haven't lasted nearly as long.

Do you have the power adapter?

No pa. I was going to get it but now I am holding off. I just got this thing it is about a month and a half old. The batteries are not bad. the batteries are fine.

 

[caves]

When I heat the screen for 40-50 seconds to heat it up the screen metal expands and contracts. I just noticed this happening. SO when I use this thing when it heats up the gap opens and contracts and is growing larger.

Sorry to ask so many questions, but for what reason are you heating the screen for 40-50 seconds? You shouldn't need to do that at all. You're using the box starting from a "cold" state, right? And metal does expand and contract with heat, that's not a big deal.
Please don't think I'm being pushy, it's not my intent. I'd like to figure out what's wrong.

 

[1flyfisher]

Sorry to ask so many questions, but for what reason are you heating the screen for 40-50 seconds? You shouldn't need to do that at all. You're using the box starting from a "cold" state, right? And metal does expand and contract with heat, that's not a big deal.
Please don't think I'm being pushy, it's not my intent. I'd like to figure out what's wrong.

The guy who does they videos for MF and others have said to clean the screen gently with iso. Then they suggest heating the screen for a short length of time.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The guy who does they videos for MF and others have said to clean the screen gently with iso. Then they suggest heating the screen for a short length of time.

Yeah but that should be like 10 second pulses max? Your batteries may be "new to you" but that doesn't mean they maybe haven't been sitting around for a while.

If you're confident that your technique is solid, and your material is "up to par" (meaning it's ground fine, dried out properly, and isn't 'brick weed'), then either it's your LB that's broken or the batteries that need to be replaced. Shouldn't be more than $7 for a pair. If it turns out to be the box, that's under warranty.

From a trench of finely ground material, filled up to right below the rails, I can get 20+ hits out of it, and more than just the first 3 or 4 taste good. There's no need to keep the power on for a minute or anything.

I'm not sure what the issue is though. Are you not getting satisfying vapor? If you want to blow big boy clouds on demand continually without worrying about combusting anything then the MFLB isn't going to do it as easily and quickly as, say, the Arizer Solo or the Indica The LB is geared towards stealth and on-demand vaping. Everything comes with its drawbacks.

 

[OF]

The guy who does they videos for MF and others have said to clean the screen gently with iso. Then they suggest heating the screen for a short length of time.

True enough, but you have to be extremely careful with that ISO. Under no conditions let it contact the wood. Even a little spray. A barely damp swab, perhaps, and great care to not put any pressure on the mesh. Also be real careful of it around the lid, ISO can attack Acrylic plastic.

But in a way, solvents are not a good way to deal with build up since all it can really do is spread it around more. The amount used in the video no doubt 'painted' the back side of the mesh (which was clean) in a spot where following swabs can't hope to clear it away. As long as it's just condensates, it's probably better to do a dry burn or two. Just evaporate it off again. No solvents.

The best plan is, however, not building up deposits in the first place of course. For this keep your bud very dry going in and what little deposits do form will be easy to burn off. It seems it's the 'steaming' of the bud that makes it stick. If it goes in dry, and the screen is clean, shaking keeps it in play.

Yeah but that should be like 10 second pulses max? Your batteries may be "new to you" but that doesn't mean they maybe haven't been sitting around for a while.

It's also worth noting these are unprotected NiMH cells. Where a NiCd might survive a deep discharge, a single 'run it into the mud' adventure (taking it below 1.0 Volts or so) will irreparably damage them. When they get weak, swap them out and recharge if you love them.

OF

 

[1flyfisher]

Yeah but that should be like 10 second pulses max? Your batteries may be "new to you" but that doesn't mean they maybe haven't been sitting around for a while.

If you're confident that your technique is solid, and your material is "up to par" (meaning it's ground fine, dried out properly, and isn't 'brick weed'), then either it's your LB that's broken or the batteries that need to be replaced. Shouldn't be more than $7 for a pair. If it turns out to be the box, that's under warranty.

From a trench of finely ground material, filled up to right below the rails, I can get 20+ hits out of it, and more than just the first 3 or 4 taste good. There's no need to keep the power on for a minute or anything.

I'm not sure what the issue is though. Are you not getting satisfying vapor? If you want to blow big boy clouds on demand continually without worrying about combusting anything then the MFLB isn't going to do it as easily and quickly as, say, the Arizer Solo or the Indica The LB is geared towards stealth and on-demand vaping. Everything comes with its drawbacks.

In the video the kid says to hold the battery in for for 40-60 seconds. I have medical grade herb. I grind it with the finishing grinder. It is perfect grind slightly finer than pepper. the batteries are brand new. I got two batteries with the MFLB. I also bought 4 duracell. I don't want to blow clouds. I have said that. I just want the thing to deliver.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

In the video the kid says to hold the battery in for for 40-60 seconds. I have medical grade herb. I grind it with the finishing grinder. It is perfect grind slightly finer than pepper. the batteries are brand new. I got two batteries with the MFLB. I also bought 4 duracell. I don't want to blow clouds. I have said that. I just want the thing to deliver.

What about technique? You asked a page back about how hot the vapor should be. It's kind of hard to accurately describe how warm I like my vapor, you know? I personally like a single slow long draw as opposed to doing the "micro-puffing" method. It helps me gauge the vapor temperature in real time instead of pulsing it. I like it warmer as opposed to cooler, but not so close that I combust. If you draw too fast, the screen doesn't reach vaporizing temperature and not much happens, but too slow and it keeps increasing until it combusts. The little curling of the corners doesn't affect performance in my experience, it's just another little spot to (carefully) clean out when the time comes. By the way, the change of color on the screen from the combustion doesn't do anything negative. It's just from being subjected to the combustion. Call it a beauty mark?

All that being said there isn't any one specific vaporizer that does it all for everyone. Maybe this one's not for you? Have you had any good sessions with it so far? Ignoring the change of taste for a second, are you getting where you want to go at all? The taste thing happens with all vaporizers, but happens faster with conduction vaporizers like this one.

 

[Stu]

In the video the kid says to hold the battery in for for 40-60 seconds.

I may have missed something, but which video are you speaking of? I've never heard of someone holding the battery in for anywhere near that long.

 

[OF]

All that being said there isn't any one specific vaporizer that does it all for everyone. Maybe this one's not for you?

Excellent point! It's not a 'one size fits all' deal at all. While some vapes are easier/quicker than others for most folks to get good results out of, not even the vaulted Volcano is a slam dunk. Even well intentioned and common advice is no more than a guide here.

And I think this extends a LONG way into technique advice. 3 of us can pick up a never before seen vape and with no trouble at all get 5 or more 'best' ways in short order. If it's a good vape, though, the chances of a good technique for any individual is high I think. In a way that's the measure of a good/great vape?

OF

 

[pakalolo]

@1flyfisher: From your descriptions, I think you might be one of the rare MFLB users who draw too slowly or too lightly. Try increasing your draw strength a bit to see what effect that has.

 

[OF]

@1flyfisher: From your descriptions, I think you might be one of the rare MFLB users who draw too slowly or too lightly. Try increasing your draw strength a bit to see what effect that has.

Excellent point, while the opposite (pulling too much cold air in too fast) is the usual, too slow can also be a problem.

With a fresh load you can usually see vapor collecting and condensing some through the cover or up the draw hole. Kind of like a little fog bank. A useful technique might be to look for that to happen before sipping it away? Don't draw at all until there's visible vapor? And it's only going to work at first, once the water and lighter fractions are gone the vapor gets harder and harder to see.

OF

 

[1flyfisher]

What about technique? You asked a page back about how hot the vapor should be. It's kind of hard to accurately describe how warm I like my vapor, you know? I personally like a single slow long draw as opposed to doing the "micro-puffing" method. It helps me gauge the vapor temperature in real time instead of pulsing it. I like it warmer as opposed to cooler, but not so close that I combust. If you draw too fast, the screen doesn't reach vaporizing temperature and not much happens, but too slow and it keeps increasing until it combusts. The little curling of the corners doesn't affect performance in my experience, it's just another little spot to (carefully) clean out when the time comes. By the way, the change of color on the screen from the combustion doesn't do anything negative. It's just from being subjected to the combustion. Call it a beauty mark?

All that being said there isn't any one specific vaporizer that does it all for everyone. Maybe this one's not for you? Have you had any good sessions with it so far? Ignoring the change of taste for a second, are you getting where you want to go at all? The taste thing happens with all vaporizers, but happens faster with conduction vaporizers like this one.

Thanks for the reply.
Yeah I know it is hard to describe temperature. I like the long slow draw off the box. I try and keep it cool and take longs slow draws for about 30 seconds.

I may have missed something, but which video are you speaking of? I've never heard of someone holding the battery in for anywhere near that long.

@1flyfisher: From your descriptions, I think you might be one of the rare MFLB users who draw too slowly or too lightly. Try increasing your draw strength a bit to see what effect that has.

Thanks,
I will try that. I mix it up basically. Mostly long slow draws off the box 90% of the time. Sometimes sips. Sometimes a little of both. The most consistent best seems to be long slow draw as MF suggests. I am going to keep track of my hits. ie the number of hits I get how long my hits are. and when the load is spent. This way I can come to a better conclusion. I will do this with my next session.

 

[skippy]

Ah, so! I think a lot of this might be tied up right there. Blazing experience is not a plus here, you need a clean break from blazing (I'd say 10 days on average? Two weeks?) to 'get into vaping'. Two weeks with no cheating. Honest. Anyone disagree?

Then you get the effects you want (at least the ones available). I get it you're after effects, but everything you describe is in blazing terms (taste, density, and so on).

Learning vaping and the use of MFLB at the same time is a handful. Once you get used to vaping as a technique, learning new vapes is easy. IMO that's a necessary (and usually separate) step.

Boxes do then to 'cool off', but as long as they heat reasonably well (and it sounds like yours does) good technique will extract the THC and the owner will get full effect. If it goes in with the load and doesn't come out in ABV it came out as vapor.

It's worth seeing your photos, there could be something there, but from the descriptions it sure sounds like it. A new box might help some, but I don't think it's the solution to any hardware problem. At least not a disqualifying problem.

OF

Yea I totally agree. I didn't indulge for six weeks from when I gave up combusting to when I first used the MFLB as I needed to drop the habit of mixing herb with tobacco. I was so pleased the first time I used it as I realised I could indulge in my favourite herb without combusting and really enjoy it. I tried a vape a couple of times before this and thought they were useless as I'd combusted before hand and wanted to " see the vapour" and didn't. My tip to anyone taking up vaping is to totally stop combusting for a reasonable period before hand, I had to do it for health reasons so for me being able to still enjoy herb via a vape made me very happy.

 

[1flyfisher]

Here's some of what I like and don't like so far.

I like the effects of the MFLB. But There just isn't enough draws before it goes blah.
Some <claim> they get twenty draws with effects....I would like to know how. The taste can get bad quick.
The stealth is great. I can do this anywhere. It isn't as stealthy as an e-pen but is there an e-pen that works good? If there is I will buy it. You can hit this thing right in the park or among crowds. You could hit this right in a bar or a football game or baseball game. I would not hesitate to sip this guy right on the patio of a bar or at some event around the city.
You have to carry around a little brush if you want to go out for a day and do multiple trenches. After 2 trenches you have to brush it out.
I hate the batteries. Juggling 6 batteries is becoming a pain in the ass. I am wondering what the fuck I am going to do when I go flyfishing for 2-3 weeks.Now I have to try and find a battery case so I don't have to have them rolling around in my pocket. I need at least two batteries for an evening or a concert.
If anyone knows of where I can get a 2 batterry AA case let me know.
I do not like having to add accessories and spend more $$$.
I paid $10 for 4 duracell Batteries so far and $25 for the finishing grinder. The PA is like another $70 and then another $12 for the oil tray. That sucks.
For what you start our paying it is ok. But if you have to buy, batteries, and chargers, and PA and oil tray, and battery cases etc. It adds up and becomes costly.
They need to include a carrying case for everything so you can actually use this thing.
And they need some rubber bands or some cool velcro wrap to keep it from opening up.
An entire carrying case of some sort is a must. I don't want to be partying and have batteries flopping around and a brush loose in my pocket. A small soft case for 2 batteries the brush that can fit in your pocket should be included.
The finishing grinder by the way works great and grinds the herbs as fine as can be done. I highly recommend one if you like your MFLB. If you do not have one get one. I grind once in a cromium crusher than the finishing grinder. I don't mind grinding twice but that is also an issue as it just makes for more work and fiddling around with my herbs. The herb I have; one grind and it is beautiful fluffy quality and smokes great. Having to dry it out and grind it to salt/pepper grain size is some what of a pain especially when one grind produces such perfect quality for twisting up a fatty.
This MFLB can be a little difficult in the dark. Loading it with not over loading it in the dark isn't very doable. It was a bit dark and I couldn't tell if the load was in the trench correctly. I just had to go on trust. I am often paddling my kayak an hour before the sun comes up so dark conditions I need something that works. I'd say the MFLB isn't the best in the dark unless you pre load it. then just shake it level and hope it is all in place. I like to be able to look at it and make sure. Not a deal breaker but not a positive for me.
This thing is very finicky. I have been testing it and there is a lot of variables and inconsistency in performance.

All in all I think it has some pluses and some minuses which it seems most vapes do have.

 

[mplx]

Hi flyfisher

I started using the FB about 2 months ago and i recognize some of your points. I`m from Holland so my weed is from the coffeeshop and my outdoor homegrown is still not dry enough. The shopweed is a+ quality but i won`t get 20 hits from it.
With a PA it`s eassier and you could get 40 hits if you like without combusting but normally i get something like this:

PA@35~40%
1st hit: 100% taste 100%effect <10% clouds
2nd:90/95/20
3rd:80/90/35
4th:70/70/50
................
10th:10/20/90
12th:5(popcorn)/10/>90

Then i empty the box, brush, burn100%@PA, brush again and reload
So yes you can get 20 hits , but the last ones are just hot popcorn and do have some effect, but not much. Sometimes after 12 hits i`m high enough so i don`t want to refill , but also i don`t want to waste what`s in the box so i turn op the PA to >50~60% and do another short 6 hits. And yes i can notice there was still some effect in it.

In the beginning i took long slow hits. Now i take short hits in a row, so i still push the button wait till temps are fine and take another short hit (I never smoked a pipe but my grandpa did, i think it`s comparable to smoking pipe like an old man). When it`s starting to tickle my throat i feel that i inhaled enough vape and i inhale some extra fresh air. Wait about 6~7 seconds and exhale. THEN i see clouds I tried that with the batteries but it`s harder because the temps are changing more.

But sometimes i get a "just hot air" hit too, dunno what went wrong. Shake and next hit is fine

 

[caves]

I like the effects of the MFLB. But There just isn't enough draws before it goes blah.
Some <claim> they get twenty draws with effects....I would like to know how. The taste can get bad quick.

This MFLB can be a little difficult in the dark. Loading it with not over loading it in the dark isn't very doable. It was a bit dark and I couldn't tell if the load was in the trench correctly. I just had to go on trust.

This thing is very finicky. I have been testing it and there is a lot of variables and inconsistency in performance.

Just wanted to address these points of your post. First off, I'd say that a claim of 20 or more draws is fairly typical when the box is used as intended. Everyone I know in real life with a launch box (and I'm sure many of the forum-goers here) is able to get a relatively high number of draws from a single trench. Your experience of 3-4 draws and then awful taste is the exception, not the norm. The only way the taste gets bad for me before reaching that ~20th draw is if I give it a little too much battery and blacken some of the material. Ideally, you want no black at all in your finished ABV. If you have any black bits, try to ease off the battery. Pulsing (using the battery until the temperature is enough to vape and then letting off so it can cool back down) can work better than a steady input, and it can be quite easy to char your material if you're overzealous with the battery. If the temperature of vapor starts jumping up, you'll want to slightly increase your draw rate and stop engaging the battery as soon as possible. You'll want to cut out power before it gets to a similar temperature as combustion. Try sticking your tongue in front of the vapor path and feeling it out. Once it becomes uncomfortable you want to back off.
Could you upload a picture of what one of your finished loads looks like? It could help diagnose the problem, because a properly done trench should last a good long while.

For sure the MFLB is tougher to use in the dark. Instead of looking at the trench, you have to do everything based on taste and feel. Once you're acclimated to how your own personal box works, though, running it without much light becomes doable. I personally have had many successful, long seshes outside at night. After a while using the box becomes second nature.

And yes, the box is certainly finicky and certainly has a lot of variables to worry about. The box is consistent, though, and in most cases inconsistencies will be mostly due to user input. You have to pay a lot of attention to it, learn all the ins and outs of your own box, and take care of it. It's certainly a vape that benefits from spending a lot of one-on-one time with it. If you're willing to stick it out and learn your box, you may come to appreciate it in a much greater way.

 

[1flyfisher]

Hi flyfisher

I started using the FB about 2 months ago and i recognize some of your points. I`m from Holland so my weed is from the coffeeshop and my outdoor homegrown is still not dry enough. The shopweed is a+ quality but i won`t get 20 hits from it.
With a PA it`s eassier and you could get 40 hits if you like without combusting but normally i get something like this:

PA@35~40%
1st hit: 100% taste 100%effect <10% clouds
2nd:90/95/20
3rd:80/90/35
4th:70/70/50
................
10th:10/20/90
12th:5(popcorn)/10/>90

Then i empty the box, brush, burn100%@PA, brush again and reload
So yes you can get 20 hits , but the last ones are just hot popcorn and do have some effect, but not much. Sometimes after 12 hits i`m high enough so i don`t want to refill , but also i don`t want to waste what`s in the box so i turn op the PA to >50~60% and do another short 6 hits. And yes i can notice there was still some effect in it.

In the beginning i took long slow hits. Now i take short hits in a row, so i still push the button wait till temps are fine and take another short hit (I never smoked a pipe but my grandpa did, i think it`s comparable to smoking pipe like an old man). When it`s starting to tickle my throat i feel that i inhaled enough vape and i inhale some extra fresh air. Wait about 6~7 seconds and exhale. THEN i see clouds I tried that with the batteries but it`s harder because the temps are changing more.

But sometimes i get a "just hot air" hit too, dunno what went wrong. Shake and next hit is fine

Thanks for the info. Also a major factor is the length of the hits. That is a key variable. I timed my hits and my longest are like 45 seconds. I watched a video and the dude from MF took two hits demonstrating the batteries and each hit was 15 seconds. SO my hits are 3 times as long. that may very well explain why I get around 4 hits and someone else gets 12 hits.

Just wanted to address these points of your post. First off, I'd say that a claim of 20 or more draws is fairly typical when the box is used as intended. Everyone I know in real life with a launch box (and I'm sure many of the forum-goers here) is able to get a relatively high number of draws from a single trench. Your experience of 3-4 draws and then awful taste is the exception, not the norm. The only way the taste gets bad for me before reaching that ~20th draw is if I give it a little too much battery and blacken some of the material. Ideally, you want no black at all in your finished ABV. If you have any black bits, try to ease off the battery. Pulsing (using the battery until the temperature is enough to vape and then letting off so it can cool back down) can work better than a steady input, and it can be quite easy to char your material if you're overzealous with the battery. If the temperature of vapor starts jumping up, you'll want to slightly increase your draw rate and stop engaging the battery as soon as possible. You'll want to cut out power before it gets to a similar temperature as combustion. Try sticking your tongue in front of the vapor path and feeling it out. Once it becomes uncomfortable you want to back off.
Could you upload a picture of what one of your finished loads looks like? It could help diagnose the problem, because a properly done trench should last a good long while.

For sure the MFLB is tougher to use in the dark. Instead of looking at the trench, you have to do everything based on taste and feel. Once you're acclimated to how your own personal box works, though, running it without much light becomes doable. I personally have had many successful, long seshes outside at night. After a while using the box becomes second nature.

And yes, the box is certainly finicky and certainly has a lot of variables to worry about. The box is consistent, though, and in most cases inconsistencies will be mostly due to user input. You have to pay a lot of attention to it, learn all the ins and outs of your own box, and take care of it. It's certainly a vape that benefits from spending a lot of one-on-one time with it. If you're willing to stick it out and learn your box, you may come to appreciate it in a much greater way.

Hello,
I posted a pic of my abv above. Please take a look and tell me what you think. It is still greenish looking to me but at this point is starting to taste a little nasty. I think that was about 4 hits on that abv or perhaps a few more. I never combust. I don't even get close to combusting before I get a foul taste. Also I have some of the smoothest best tasting nor cal medicinal so that is not the problem with flavor. Like I said my first 3 hits are fine and actually taste great but it is down hill from there. Yes I do put my tongue in front of it as a temperature guage and don't let it get too hot.
The hard part about it in the dark is shaking it back into the trench without being able to see if you got it in there correctly. I hold it level and tap it. That is the best you can hope for.