The Grasshopper

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Mrbinky

Mrbinky

Well-Known Member
syrupy said:
But the Mini Cooper's engine doesn't turn on and off more frequently does it?

And I still don't see that analogy addressing where exactly in the GH that heat is going to? Is it just inefficient at heat retention?
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If the only way to control the speed was to switch the engine either full on or off, it would.

The reason you need to switch the heater either full on or off is because of Ohm's law v=i*r and power = v*i. You see, if you tried to regulate the heater's power linearly using a semi-conductor, by varying the resistance, then there would be a voltage drop across the semi-conductor, but there would still be current flowing through it if it wasn't turned fully off. So, it would have to dissipate heat (P=i*V). Given the size of the PCB, it would probably be far more heat then it could handle.

But, a fully open switch carries no current, hence no heat to dissipate (because i=0.)

Likewise, a fully closed switch has no voltage drop, hence no heat to dissipate (because v=0.)

The reason why the analogy with the mini-cooper fails is because you cannot directly change the voltage or amperage coming from the battery, itself, by somehow reducing the amount of anode/cathode exposed to the electrolyte. Unlike a car, which can change the power output of the engine at will, by controlling the amount of fuel/air mixture fed to it.

And, that is why the GH (and pretty much any similar vaporizer), must switch on and off to regulate the AVERAGE power of the heater. Again, the thermal inertia comes into play: it plays the same role as the capacitor in a switching power supply (and here the analogy is almost perfect.) A large thermal mass is like a large capacitor. It does a better job smoothing out variation in voltage or temperature as the case may be.

And the heat that you are removing by sucking on the vaporizer's mouthpiece is analogous to the power supply's load. The "RC combination" makes up a low pass filter, and it is possibly to calculate how much fluctuation you will see in the output voltage/temperature depending on the input frequency (how quickly the heater toggles on and off.) The faster it toggles, the better regulated the temperature is going to be, all else being equal.

I could actually calculate it...but I'm not going to! :nope:
 
Tek

Tek

Well-Known Member
A prius engine turns on and off to maintain it's charge.... is that better? Ha I don't care I'm just using some car knowledge.

ShayWhiteGrow said:
Almost like a Cloud Evo? Never had the pleasure, YET!:brow:
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I'm not super impressed with my cloud evo, at least for flower. For concentrates it is amazing and my go to piece all the time but that's really all I use it for. I'll have to search that thread to see what I'm doing wrong or not doing at all.
 
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Tek

Tek

Well-Known Member
What is with the mini love? I had to work on a cooper s clubman last week and it sucked. I would never want to own one, it was quite weird. How about a tlx with tech package and leather wrapped everything??
 
Tek,
vapebuddy13

vapebuddy13

Your resident Super Hero
RUDE BOY said:
Yeah i agree 100%, needing to carry an extra battery pack that's at least the same size as the original davinci or a pocketful of batteries would kinda defeat the whole idea behind having a stealth Pen sized vape as far as I can see.
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isn't the whole "stealth" idea of vapes have to do with being able to inconspicuously carry it/use it without it being too obvious? I don't see how carrying an extra battery or 2(which look smaller than AA) cancels out the stealth factor
 
syrupy

syrupy

Authorized Buyer
Mrbinky said:
If the only way to control the speed was to switch the engine either full on or off, it would.

The reason you need to switch the heater either full on or off is because of Ohm's law v=i*r and power = v*i. You see, if you tried to regulate the heater's power linearly using a semi-conductor, by varying the resistance, then there would be a voltage drop across the semi-conductor, but there would still be current flowing through it if it wasn't turned fully off. So, it would have to dissipate heat (P=i*V). Given the size of the PCB, it would probably be far more heat then it could handle.

But, a fully open switch carries no current, hence no heat to dissipate (because i=0.)

Likewise, a fully closed switch has no voltage drop, hence no heat to dissipate (because v=0.)

The reason why the analogy with the mini-cooper fails is because you cannot directly change the voltage or amperage coming from the battery, itself, by somehow reducing the amount of anode/cathode exposed to the electrolyte. Unlike a car, which can change the power output of the engine at will, by controlling the amount of fuel/air mixture fed to it.

And, that is why the GH (and pretty much any similar vaporizer), must switch on and off to regulate the AVERAGE power of the heater. Again, the thermal inertia comes into play: it plays the same role as the capacitor in a switching power supply (and here the analogy is almost perfect.) A large thermal mass is like a large capacitor. It does a better job smoothing out variation in voltage or temperature as the case may be.

And the heat that you are removing by sucking on the vaporizer's mouthpiece is analogous to the power supply's load. The "RC combination" makes up a low pass filter, and it is possibly to calculate how much fluctuation you will see in the output voltage/temperature depending on the input frequency (how quickly the heater toggles on and off.) The faster it toggles, the better regulated the temperature is going to be, all else being equal.

I could actually calculate it...but I'm not going to! :nope:
Click to expand...

Uh, thanks, but this made more sense to me. Maybe you're talking the same thing.

Ratchett said:
I suspect it's due to the size and draw speeds of the user. Imagine taking a 36mm long vapor tube and wrapping it into a 5mm tall disk. Depending on the diameter of the airpath, I'm guessing the wall thicknesses are less than 0.5mm. This will dissipate heat extremely fast. Simple laws of thermodynamics apply, the heater will cool down extremely fast (it is a heat exchanger after all!).
Click to expand...
 
syrupy,
vapebuddy13

vapebuddy13

Your resident Super Hero
well no I don't think carrying them is a big deal but that wasn't really the point of my post... I was saying how I don't see how it cancels out the "stealth" factor carrying a battery or 2 in your pocket isn't going to make the vape any more noticeable/obvious
 
Mrbinky

Mrbinky

Well-Known Member
syrupy said:
Uh, thanks, but this made more sense to me. Maybe you're talking the same thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, kinda. You are putting heat into the thing, and taking it it again, either by using it for vaporizing, or losing it in some other way. The more heat the thing can hold, and the slower it gets lost, the less frequently you need to add more heat.

My Solo's oven can hold a lot of heat. So, it takes a while to fill it up. And it takes a while to empty it, too. But, frankly, that's exactly what I don't like about it. I have to wait too much, and then make sure I don't continue to cook my herbs in case I don't finish the load.
 
syrupy

syrupy

Authorized Buyer
Mrbinky said:
Yeah, kinda. You are putting heat into the thing, and taking it it again, either by using it for vaporizing, or losing it in some other way. The more heat the thing can hold, and the slower it gets lost, the less frequently you need to add more heat.

My Solo's oven can hold a lot of heat. So, it takes a while to fill it up. And it takes a while to empty it, too. But, frankly, that's exactly what I don't like about it. I have to wait too much, and then make sure I don't continue to cook my herbs in case I don't finish the load.
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Cool, that makes sense. Oddly, those characteristics are what I like about the Solo--once it gets to operating temp it tends to stay there (don't have the finishing the load issue lol). And of course I can see how that wouldn't work on the GH with its small size. No one vape for everybody, which is why I have ten!
 
zymos

zymos

Well-Known Member
syrupy said:
Me and a friend or two could easily go through a gram and still not want to wait an hour before continuing, and sometimes we're in the woods. Did the extra battery carry thing with the MFLB and no thanks, and the idea of carrying a battery pack kind of destroys the portability idea.

It still will have its use, for when I'm alone. But it doesn't take much effort to imagine overwhelming the battery in a single session.
Click to expand...

Everyone's different, a gram lasts me several days...
 
Mrbinky

Mrbinky

Well-Known Member
zymos said:
Everyone's different, a gram lasts me several days...
Click to expand...
Yeah, when something hurts, or I need to de-stress, I take a hit or two, and I'm good for a while. I can still work, too.

More than that would be counter-productive. Sitting there watching my Solo's lights slowly inch up is annoying and uncomfortable.

A Grasshopper is *just* what I need. I'll bet him and I are going to be good friends. :tup:

And, yes, is obviously a boy. My Solo appears to be a female... :lol:
 
Kalessin

Kalessin

Well-Known Member
vapebuddy13 said:
isn't the whole "stealth" idea of vapes have to do with being able to inconspicuously carry it/use it without it being too obvious? I don't see how carrying an extra battery or 2(which look smaller than AA) cancels out the stealth factor
Click to expand...
I'm already in the market for a leather pen holder sized to hold two pens. Through my half-assed figuring, I'm pretty sure it'll be just big enough to carry my hopper and two batteries stacked on top of each other.

Edit: And, WHOO! Order altered, a green hopper will be mine!
 
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S

snamuh

ghost
The battery issue is a battery issue. I don't consider anything that uses a battery these days to be on par with whatever the technology is.... Phones, vapes, electric razors.

Its 2015 scientists! Get rid of your ceos and give the people the technology!

On the real though, I feel like there's a battery conspiracy... Haha they just want us to spend money.


Instead of people making apple pipes they will be powering a vape with potatoes!
 
lwien

lwien

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