The Grasshopper

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OF

OF

Well-Known Member
norealmonsters said:
Since we don't know the specs on the heating element there is no way for us to even guess if this is realistic.

People pull over 100 watts off of 18650 IMR's in ecig setups all the time while getting 30 minutes to an hour of battery life. If they can limit the current they need to pull it's at least not impossible.
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Actually I believe we've been told it's 30 Watts. Which IMO makes sense since if you want fast temperature rises you need to keep masses low and power high.

And no way "People pull over 100 watts off of 18650 IMR's in ecig setups all the time while getting 30 minutes to an hour of battery life". The capacity champ IMR, the AW, is 8.1 Wh:
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR-18650-2200mAh-LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_4075.html

Now it won't quite do 100W (20 Amps times 3.7 Volts is 74 Watts), but won't even come close to "30 minutes to an hour" at that rate since 8.1Wh/74W=.081 hours........a bit under 7 minutes. 100W, if it could do it, would be less than five minutes. Way short of an hour.

Going to the high power champ in the line, the 1600mAh:
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR18650-1600mAh-LiMN-rechargeable-lithium-battery_p_2797.html

Gets us to more power. 15C (1.6Ah) gets us to 24Amps, which multiplied by the 3.7 gives us 89 Watts but the lower energy density (5.9Wh) gives us 'only' just under four minutes (5.9/89*60). And still not to 100W.

And GH uses a 12.5mm diameter cell? Not 18. So this is a volume reduction to 48% of the volume (39/81*100). All other things being equal that means 48% of the capacity before meaning all we can hope for at 30W is a bit less than 8 minutes ((.48*8.1/30)*60). Only it doesn't even scale directly with volume since the volume needed for jackets and insulation is fixed and the surface to volume ratio rises as the package is made smaller in diameter.

This power issue is not new to those of us who were there for the high power Persei and the Thermovape T1/Cera adventures. 30 Watts is not realistic power levels for IMR 18650 over more than a few minutes, nothing like an hour. And then you cut the volume more than in half? That's why some question/are excited by the claims. This offers to be truly ground breaking if it can live up to them. If there's some hidden magic that allows this unprecedented performance it would be way cool for sure.

Those are my 'numbers', and reasoning, can you find fault with them? TIA

OF
 
Kaptan

Kaptan

Well-Known Member
Has anyone considered that this unit will be similar to ecigs and even the Elevape smart technology in which it utilizes heat on demand? This may allow them to get the length of battery time that they require as the unit only heats while the user inhales?
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Well if it has juice for 5 minutes of continuous operation, it means you have 300 seconds worth of button pressing to take hits. If you need to hold the button say 5 seconds to get a hit, you can have 60 hits per charge. Now if you take a hit every 30 seconds, the apparent operation time could be 30 minutes...

How thoroughly we chew it, it's not turning to chocolate I'm afraid. The numbers @OF posted are indeed the sad reality of this battery technology.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Perhaps the GH will at least be helping to pave the way toward increased miniaturization and performance of the fast-developing vape industry through innovative technologies while we im/patiently wait for battery technology to catch up. If battery consumption in the current iteration of the GH is based on an on-demand series of hit sessions, perhaps yielding as many as many/few as the 60 suggested-above on a single charge, it may not be a bad trade-off for a few quick fixes throughout the day or afternoon considering its ultra-portable size (it doesn't necessarily take much to get the job done). I believe there will always be a demand for a pen-sized flower/oil vape, or smaller, and it seems that GH has gone out on an entrepreneurial limb to bring version 1 to market. Good things may come of it!
 
zymos

zymos

Well-Known Member
KeroZen said:
Well if it has juice for 5 minutes of continuous operation, it means you have 300 seconds worth of button pressing to take hits. If you need to hold the button say 5 seconds to get a hit, you can have 60 hits per charge. Now if you take a hit every 30 seconds, the apparent operation time could be 30 minutes...

How thoroughly we chew it, it's not turning to chocolate I'm afraid. The numbers @OF posted are indeed the sad reality of this battery technology.
Click to expand...

I'd be more than satisfied with 60 hits per charge.
 
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
norealmonsters said:
Since we don't know the specs on the heating element there is no way for us to even guess if this is realistic. They stated that the heater design required high end 3d printing at some point earlier; That implies to me that the heater is going to have to be pretty small.

People pull over 100 watts off of 18650 IMR's in ecig setups all the time while getting 30 minutes to an hour of battery life. If they can limit the current they need to pull it's at least not impossible.
Click to expand...
I was gonna comment on this last night but was mildly confused and pretty fuckin' stoned so I held off. Yes you're right, we can pull fat watts out of our 18650's but you also gotta remember we're using specific 18650's, not all will handle subohming (amps). I'm currently running a dual coil setup with 24 gauge kanthal, 5 wraps, reading .15 ohms on the dot. I can vape on a battery for a few hours with my setup which pulls just under 60 watts, but you gotta remember that our drags are averaging a few seconds max. Mine are only about 1.5 seconds and I can cloud up a room pretty fast with it... but we're using it differently. The coils are contact coils, wrapped in a small diameter, and with the saturated wick material in direct contact with the inside of the coils. Grasshopper as I understand it has a heater system that heats the air and then the hot air moves on into the flower load. The difference between these two is that with ecigs as soon as we get power to the coils it starts vaporizing the juice, and we only need a few seconds to get that action going. The Grasshopper needs to heat air, then heat the material (heat loss), then keep the material heated for the duration of a hit (which I assume will be about 15 seconds?). The longer hits will tax the battery faster than on an ecig... and that's without even considering the big size difference between the Grasshopper battery (which looks about the size of a 14500?) compared to an 18650. I know regulated box mods are pulling 150 watts and higher, usually with two 18650's. I've seen a few that take one 18650 and can go pretty high with watts as well, but they drain the battery pretty fast. 30 watts on an 18650 isn't the same as 30 watts on a 14500. I'll be really excited to see more than a few loads per battery charge with the Grasshopper but I somehow doubt it... I had a 3.7v ThermoVape Evolution that ran on a 14500 battery. I could count on approximately 1 load per battery... maybe 1 load and then a few hits on the next if I was on top of it. I don't recall how many watts that setup pulled but I don't think it was close to 30.
 
K

kato1234

Well-Known Member
norealmonsters said:
Since we don't know the specs on the heating element there is no way for us to even guess if this is realistic. They stated that the heater design required high end 3d printing at some point earlier; That implies to me that the heater is going to have to be pretty small.

People pull over 100 watts off of 18650 IMR's in ecig setups all the time while getting 30 minutes to an hour of battery life. If they can limit the current they need to pull it's at least not impossible.
Click to expand...
But this isn't a 3000 mah 18650 with a 25A limit it's a 750mah 12650 with an 8A limit. A lot less power. I'm kind of guessing about the specs of their battery based on any similar ones I could find. They don't claim to have invented a new power source so my number should be somewhere in the ballpark.
 
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
grokit said:
I thought they did mention something about cutting edge battery tech?

Maybe not :shrug:
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It takes a very long time for battery breakthroughs to make it to the general population. All the cool stuff we've seen this year with batteries... is about 15 years out before it's scaled properly to the masses.
 
BaMbAaAChA

BaMbAaAChA

HAKUNA MATATA!!
I DEMAND TRIAL (BY COMBAT I BELIEVE)

Take that mech stoner (I mean the setup they used to demonstrate the vape flow) and make it suck a grasshoper for 30mins and the upload it on youtube.
 
VoodooChild

VoodooChild

All Along The Vapetower
What's up everyone? I'm new to the FC community, but not new to the GH. In fact, I've 'blazed' through this entire thread, from page 1, over the past few weeks. What a crazy ride that was. Anyway, after being on the waiting list for quite some time, my pre-order opportunity came up and I dove in. Couldn't be more stoked. I know there is alot of doubt still, but I just wanted to gauge how the optimism was still holding up? With the recent pre orders available and new "expected" delivery dates set... Are we actually starting to see the light at the end?
 
VoodooChild,
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o

Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o

Well-Known Member
VoodooChild said:
What's up everyone? I'm new to the FC community, but not new to the GH. In fact, I've 'blazed' through this entire thread, from page 1, over the past few weeks. What a crazy ride that was. Anyway, after being on the waiting list for quite some time, my pre-order opportunity came up and I dove in. Couldn't be more stoked. I know there is alot of doubt still, but I just wanted to gauge how the optimism was still holding up? With the recent pre orders available and new "expected" delivery dates set... Are we actually starting to see the light at the end?
Click to expand...

Hey VoodooChild when did you get on the wait list? I'm only asking because I got on the list around February.
 
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o,
VoodooChild

VoodooChild

All Along The Vapetower
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o said:
Hey VoodooChild when did you get on the wait list? I'm only asking because I got on the list around February.
Click to expand...

I started researching portable vaporizers just a few months ago around Thanksgiving. When I came across the GH in early December, I opted on the waiting list. A few days before Christmas, I received an email to pre-order. It stated I had one week to make my decision or I would be bumped to the back of the list. I was actually surprised it was that fast with this being in such high demand. The order confirmation also stated an "expected delivery" of March 2015 for a Ti model.
 
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VoodooChild,
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Shit Snacks

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Ok yeah that is surprising, I joined the wait list last February and have not received my pre order email...
 
Shit Snacks,
VoodooChild

VoodooChild

All Along The Vapetower
Wow.. Like I said, I was really surprised I got an email about it. I thought they were just really starting to crank them out finally.
 
VoodooChild,
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o

Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o

Well-Known Member
OF said:
Nice try, but not even close to a record.......

OF
Click to expand...
And then...And Then......And then.???

Dude Why the odd reply? Never stated anything about a record. Only wondering why? someone already got to pre-order with that short of time on the wait list
That's all.
 
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o,
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