The Firefly 2 vaporizer

[flyfishwino]

Crafty (and likely even better, the Mighty) seems better suited for you. It is much more a session vape, and I believe better for sharing than the ff2.

If you prefer pure convection, you may want to think about getting 2 grasshoppers instead. That way you and your wife can each have one and enjoy pure convection that doesn't require the pace of a session vape.

Just to clarify,
FF2 and the GH are both convection and hit on demand,
Crafty and mighty are conduction and best to finish the bowl in one session?

I like the idea of hits on demand, the 2 GH idea sounds interesting
Thx, again

 

[Mr. Me2]

Just to clarify,
FF2 and the GH are both convection and hit on demand,
Crafty and mighty are conduction and best to finish the bowl in one session?

I like the idea of hits on demand, the 2 GH idea sounds interesting
Thx, again

Very close.

Yes the gh and ff2 are convection vapes and hit on demand. Since I don't have the ff2, I'm not sure if it's best to finish what you start (even though there is no cooking/waste in between pulls). With the gh, you can definitely use what you want when you want.

Crafty and Mighty are blended convection and conduction vapes, and best to finish in one session. But great cool flavor and very easy to use. Maintenance is a little bit of a pain.

 

[Elac]

Only the coil and it's soldered leads are directly in the air path. And of course the ceramics and the bowl screen. Personally without certification I can't take comfort in somones word that solder from china has no trace amounts of lead or other toxic metals in it. If Firefly can show certification then that would be proper. As a company you would think they would be glad to post proof of the purity of the materials used in a device that you inhale air through. Would stop speculations
at the least. As for proprietary secret materials, Firefly better hope the FDA doesn't decide to regulate these devices as that response won't fly. If they claim nickel poisoning from testing earlier heating elements, then they should be promoting
the composition of the new heating element so the world of vaping can benefit. Patent and sell if it is so great.

I'm not hating on the Firefly2 or the Firefly company just trying to shed light on issues of concern. I've enjoyed (mostly on concentrate) and been frustrated (mostly with flower) with this device. I, like i'm sure many others are, don't like playing the guessing game with air path flow and material composition on devices ( not just Firefly2) touted as a 'healthier alternative to smoking'.
The more information out there on a product good or bad the better for all.

 

[greenextinguisher]

@flyfishwino I have the GH and FF2 units and they both behave similarly in practice as far as being on demand and being able to stop/pickup later at will.

From these photos and usage, I have a hunch that there is slightly less conduction going on in the FF2. The air heating chamber of the FF2 seems pretty well insulated from the bowl with ceramic and an air gap between them. The GH does get much hotter around the bowl area. Like I said, though, in usage, I don't notice a discrepancy between the two as far as post-hit cooking goes. Even though the GH gets hotter around the bowl, it also cools much faster.

One difference is you'll probably want to stir the FF2 when you pick it up later for round two, where that's not really a thing on the GH. The cost is that the GH delivers much hotter vapor to your mouth.

@Elac after reviewing again post-coffee this AM, it looks like in your first photo the bottom lead's clip is not fully seated and that is why solder actually encroaches into the heating chamber. Yesterday, I thought it was just sloppy/uneven soldering. The solder is still effectively part of the heating element, still hella hot and still getting intake air blown over it, but it should not be in the oven for stock installations.

Also on the bottom of that photo I see a small PCB labeled "charger" which, I assume, is what monitors the battery during charging. Did you modify that at all? Looks like some sloppy hand soldering to me, which would be odd in a small electronics manufacturing process. Reminds me of my first PS2 mod job from back in the day

Any thoughts I had that there is plastic around the outside have been squashed by this teardown.

 

[kcmochris]

One difference is you'll probably want to stir the FF2 when you pick it up later for round two, where that's not really a thing on the GH. The cost is that the GH delivers much hotter vapor to your mouth.

Honestly, one of my favorite, on-demand perks of the FF2. I've noticed coming back to a bowl that I've pulled from a handful of times or less--the ABV is almost always golden-green unless I've underpacked, and if it's there's no drop in quality of materials it might just have some sparkles on it (crystals). Stir it up! I also like to use @stickstones method of straight nug(gets) -- no initial grind. Great way for me to taste the entire flavor profile. Usually lower temps: medium and down. Then when I feel ready to turn it up (or stash for night time), I dump and break it up and man, smells and crumbles great--almost too fine, so go easy. Not only has the unit dried the material even further (which, as we know, is what vaporizers "like" best!), but I enjoy believing that hardly any material is being wasted -- from heat, to draw, to cool down. Efficient. Once again, make sure your material is dry for best results. I've noticed, coming from the smoking world since the top of this summer, that I've had to check myself on the moisture content of my materials. I've been conditioned to desire fresh (read: moist, was better for combustion/flavor/harshness) as possible. Obvious info but something I had to commit to memory when starting.

Anyway, love the unit--it has improved my life and helped introduce me to vaping. Maybe I'm partial. But I know quality vapor after having tried various methods and this one has produced some of the best for me once I learned what the FF's optimal draw resistance is.

 

[Elac]

@greenextinguisher: You are correct, the solder stays out of the oven, but is still in direct contact with air flowing in. I have not done anything to the Firefly pcb that is the quality of workmanship of a $330 device. I've ordered $0.99 modules from China with better solder work.
As for the internal charger, not worth using IMO, haven't read the output on the oscilloscope yet. But with the pitch of the sound come off while charging I can't see it having acceptable ripple.
Taking a stepped down 5V source that could contain a substantial amont of ripple and boosting it to 9V, again with ripple of a different frequency, does no good for the units charger or it's battery. I use a Firefly one external charger that I disassembled and attached to a box with a proper and cheap step down regulator to feed it a clean (thanks to proper bypass/filtering caps) 9V from any 10V to 24V dc source. About $40 in parts and a few hours assembly time.

 

[greenextinguisher]

Honestly, one of my favorite, on-demand perks of the FF2. I've noticed coming back to a bowl that I've pulled from a handful of times or less--the ABV is almost always golden-green unless I've underpacked, and if it's there's no drop in quality of materials it might just have some sparkles on it (crystals). Stir it up! I also like to use @stickstones method of straight nug(gets) -- no initial grind. Great way for me to taste the entire flavor profile. Usually lower temps: medium and down. Then when I feel ready to turn it up (or stash for night time), I dump and break it up and man, smells and crumbles great--almost too fine, so go easy. Not only has the unit dried the material even further (which, as we know, is what vaporizers "like" best!), but I enjoy believing that hardly any material is being wasted -- from heat, to draw, to cool down. Efficient. Once again, make sure your material is dry for best results. I've noticed, coming from the smoking world since the top of this summer, that I've had to check myself on the moisture content of my materials. I've been conditioned to desire fresh (read: moist, was better for combustion/flavor/harshness) as possible. Obvious info but something I had to commit to memory when starting.

Anyway, love the unit--it has improved my life and helped introduce me to vaping. Maybe I'm partial. But I know quality vapor after having tried various methods and this one has produced some of the best for me once I learned what the FF's optimal draw resistance is.

That's a fun way to look at it and I agree with all points. I love the FF2 experience. The only time the stirring is an issue for me at all is if I want to sit down and sesh a whole bowl. Sometimes being a little more methodical and tuned-in is exactly what I'm looking for and sometimes it's not. That's why god created the FF2 AND the Crafty.

Impressive on your move from smoking this summer! Congrats! Boveda packs in mason jars work pretty well for me as a baseline and leaving ground stuff out a touch before usage get's it in the zone for me. Big clouds!

edit:

@Elac damn, son. Please PM me when your FF2 mod kits and external chargers are ready for preorder.

 

[jdent3]

@greenextinguisher: You are correct, the solder stays out of the oven, but is still in direct contact with air flowing in. I have not done anything to the Firefly pcb that is the quality of workmanship of a $330 device. I've ordered $0.99 modules from China with better solder work.

Even though that solders not in the oven it's still got to be getting fairly hot. Someone should contact firefly with the picture you posted and ask about the solder.

 

[greenextinguisher]

Even though that solders not in the oven it's still got to be getting fairly hot. Someone should contact firefly with the picture you posted and ask about the solder.

I've heard it described as hella hot!

@stickstones contacted them:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-firefly-2-vaporizer.20281/page-148#post-1009358

 

[flyfishwino]

Honestly, one of my favorite, on-demand perks of the FF2. I've noticed coming back to a bowl that I've pulled from a handful of times or less--the ABV is almost always golden-green unless I've underpacked, and if it's there's no drop in quality of materials it might just have some sparkles on it (crystals). Stir it up! I also like to use @stickstones method of straight nug(gets) -- no initial grind. Great way for me to taste the entire flavor profile. Usually lower temps: medium and down. Then when I feel ready to turn it up (or stash for night time), I dump and break it up and man, smells and crumbles great--almost too fine, so go easy. Not only has the unit dried the material even further (which, as we know, is what vaporizers "like" best!), but I enjoy believing that hardly any material is being wasted -- from heat, to draw, to cool down. Efficient. Once again, make sure your material is dry for best results. I've noticed, coming from the smoking world since the top of this summer, that I've had to check myself on the moisture content of my materials. I've been conditioned to desire fresh (read: moist, was better for combustion/flavor/harshness) as possible. Obvious info but something I had to commit to memory when starting.

Anyway, love the unit--it has improved my life and helped introduce me to vaping. Maybe I'm partial. But I know quality vapor after having tried various methods and this one has produced some of the best for me once I learned what the FF's optimal draw resistance is.

Thanks, I'm used to stirring, actually tapping to stir from the MFLB. Wasn't a big deal. If I could use the same method, rather than opening it up to stir, that would be fine.
But if need to open, it's probably better as an at home type vape?

 

[kcmochris]

But if need to open, it's probably better as an at home type vape?

I forget who said it, but look back in the pages about smell with open lid if that's a concern of yours. I think, as a user every time with the device, I can't say how much it smells because of the vapor already being in my inhalation system (lungs, nasal cavity, etc.). But yes, if you fill it up just right, it will be nice and packed for the first two hits. As with any vaporizer, the material dries with each hit and reduces in mass. Therefore, as you take your pulls more space will become available in the bowl/chamber. Proceed to tap for stirring.

Long-story, short: you technically do not need to open it.

 

[Icon13]

The air does mostly come from the front, gets a little pre warmed by wrapping around the glass before it goes into the oven intake around the backside of the bowl. Its then channeled along the coil for maximum heat exposure, circles around to the center and goes up through the screen material.

Its a pretty smart and functional design as far as heating air in a small area goes. I think if there were a restriction like you said, it may actually make the air hotter. Not sure its related to your problem.

I don't know if I would classify having solder in the air pathway a smart design. I also disagree with you about the air getting hotter. The base would get hotter but if you can't draw adequate air, not enough warm air will pass through the bud and you will not get good hits. It would pretty much just singe the bottom which is what mine did.

 

[jay87]

For a group session I find the Firefly2 a poor choice as not everyone will always get a satisfying 'hit'. And it's not like awe I got the spanked bowl hit, it's more like damn I just missed my cloud while the next guy gets a major cloud. That sucks, especially if your the one whos herb is loaded. Plus it takes forever to make a circle with the need of stirring and trying to draw correctly. I tend to find the the conversation topic usually turns to correct Firefly2 operation with all having their sage advise but someone always leaving less than satisfied. Conduction type vaporisers I find much more group friendly. But to each their own.
@greenextinguisher....here is the pick of the coil and it's solder.

@Elac Great pics and teardown

My only concern here is how close the solder gets to its melting point. If the solder remains inert at its normal operating temperature then I'm not really concerned. If It's getting within even 50-100 degrees F of its melting point my concern begins to rise a lot.

I also notice in your pictures that the circuit board is also extremely close to the heating element and solder/clips. I could be wrong but I'd have to assume that so long as the circuit board isn't melting the solder should be ok as well since I would think the circuit board and solder in that picture have to be close to the same temperature when in heavy use.

It might be a bit dangerous but I'd love to see a stress test of this heater while it's opened up and see if the temperatures of various components can be measured to see exactly what we're dealing with here.


I have to say i hope that in the next generation of portable vapes manufacturers start to isolate the vapor path from the electronics completely. For the Firefly 2 I'd be soooo much more comfortable if the electronics were located even 2-3 inches further from the heating element itself.

 

[flyfishwino]

I forget who said it, but look back in the pages about smell with open lid if that's a concern of yours. I think, as a user every time with the device, I can't say how much it smells because of the vapor already being in my inhalation system (lungs, nasal cavity, etc.). But yes, if you fill it up just right, it will be nice and packed for the first two hits. As with any vaporizer, the material dries with each hit and reduces in mass. Therefore, as you take your pulls more space will become available in the bowl/chamber. Proceed to tap for stirring.

Long-story, short: you technically do not need to open it.

It's not about the smell, It's about the ease of opening and stirring while out and about in public settings

 

[sky king]

I agree and it's disappointing/concerning to see the design of this air path. I wonder if this is the reason for the chemical taste/smell that has been reported. Does anyone know how this compares to the vapor path in the original firefly, and also the mighty/crafty?

 

[Icon13]

I really wish all of you could have the superb vaping experience of the Dawsonator. It is the volcano killer. There's nothing like it. The closest you can get is the Super Vapezilla. It was a spinoff of the Dawsonator from one of the partners. It's won High Times invention of the Year award, and the vaporizer of the Year award that year, and vaporizer of the Year award the following year. I never got to try one, but all I know is that everybody that I heard from who tried both said the Dawsonator is definitely Superior. I think I also remember reading it is also much more reliable. The SVZ had longevity issues.

Anyways, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. I just wanted to share my Firefly experience so that it might help others in the future who are experiencing issues too. It just seemed that some people didn't really have any information on the Dawsonator. So I thought I would share. I really look forward to vaping out of it with you, Turk.

 

[kcmochris]

Mouthpieces back in stock on the FF site:

https://www.thefirefly.com/firefly-2-mouth-piece-bpa-free.html

 

[turk]

...great news...it had been awhile...
...icon13...sure we can work something out...had mine for over 3 months...can count times on one hand that I used flower in this thing...perfect concentrate vape...imo.

 

[Elac]

I am jealous of your Dawsonator... a bit of vaporizer envy.
@jay87: There is partial heat shielding between the heating side and the circuitry but definitely nothing to write home about.
Edit: If you have decent understanding of electronics.
One neat mod that could be done without great difficulty is this:
If you have a dispoable pen vaporizer that has an air pressure activated switch at the end of it. Like the ones sold at a dispensary. You can carefully remove that switch and with a bit of finesse one could put it on the mouth piece and snake the wires back to the touch sensor. With a few added components, solder the wires where needed and on the sensor of choice. Then one could use the buttons to initially warm up the unit and from that point on simply drawing on the mouth piece would activate the unit. Just food for thought.

 

[momofthegoons]

Anyways, I'm not trying to hijack this thread.

Further posting regarding the Dawsonator will be considered just that. Please take any further discussion of that vape to another thread.

 

[mitchgo61]

As for proprietary secret materials, Firefly better hope the FDA doesn't decide to regulate these devices as that response won't fly.

I'm positive FF will comply with all FDA regulations, whatever they are. I'm also positive we will likely all be food for the worms before the FDA regulates vapes. Given that the Feds just reiterated marijuana's schedule 1 status, they won't be regulating vapes anytime soon. (Which is unfortunate, because your larger point is correct...we will all be better off with more information and, not to show my political bent, a bit more regulation in this space. )

 

[NoCo970]

Pointless post for you. I'm loving this device the more and more I use it. There is no question whatsoever that you're getting "a whole plant experience". I'm getting more cannabinoids out of this device than any device I have ever used. I need CBD on a daily basis and this device really brings it out. This is truly for the medicinal patient with clean, smooth, cool vapor even when warm. My FF1 after it got hot..it was hot and you were done until it cooled off. Not this device..set it on a surface to absorb the heat and it cools quick. Get around the learning curve and its amazing. I can't wait to try this with some marys seven stars cbd and rosin. I'm just nervous now seeing other reviews of clogged holes. Is it best to be drawing on it ever so slightly while in warming phase to prevent this or am I just being too cautious?? Thanks in advance

 

[Kermitt]

This will probably not until next week with the FF2. Somehow I always so lucky in parcels :-(
Thanks to DHL.

Fri, 12.08.16 05:23-- Shipment has arrived at delivery location
Fri, 12.08.16 07:44 Nürnberg, Germany Shipment arrived at incorrect facility. Sent to correct destination

 

[justvapin]

Man, that is bad luck. Feel bad for you friend. I know that feeling well.

 

[mitchgo61]

I asked FF for more detail on the solder issue. Here's their exact description:

"The solder we use for the heat coil is food safe and the same as the solder used for plumbing pipes, food machinery and brewing applications."

Hopefully this makes folks feel better about this issue....personally knowing it's the food-safe kind used in multiple food/water/beverage applications alleviates any concerns I might have had, but I wasn't particularly worried about it myself. YMMV and all that....but since people wanted a deeper description of this aspect of the FF operation maybe this puts it to rest. (My vast FC experience voice whispers "probably not" in the back of my brain....)