The Firefly 2 vaporizer

[kente777]

I could actually see them upgrading the software for this model and implementing some sort of "boost" mode. Like press 1 button for your usual temperature, and then both buttons to boost it to the next level.

I would think this is a distinct possibility. With today's technology, really, there's no excuse for only one temp on a device like this. Even the Solo, the Father of dry herb vapes, had more than one temp capability when it first came out

Seriously Firefly, this is 2016.

 

[mitchgo61]

This subject was discussed at length earlier in the thread. The short version...

1. You have six temp ranges. You do not get to change the actual temps in those ranges.
2. You can only change the current heat level via the app.
3. As it was explained to me, there were a number of complexities in enabling the device to switch levels....of specific concern was how complicated this would make the LED series of indicators. (There's only one light, multiple uses and three colors already....adding another set, requiring a different series of touches to the only two buttons, got confusing.)
4. FF are very aware that some folks would prefer local control but they were trying to balance desired simplicity for their users with sufficient device-level functionality. Not all users are FC-level vape freaks. Many of their customers prefer simpler operations.

I think they've sold out the first pre-sale and have received a ton of great press so far. I don't think this one functionality trade-off is going to impact sales materially. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

There's a ton of data earlier in this thread. Well worth a read.

 

[kente777]

This subject was discussed at length earlier in the thread. The short version...

1. You have six temp ranges. You do not get to change the actual temps in those ranges.
2. You can only change the current heat level via the app.
3. As it was explained to me, there were a number of complexities in enabling the device to switch levels....of specific concern was how complicated this would make the LED series of indicators. (There's only one light, multiple uses and three colors already....adding another set, requiring a different series of touches to the only two buttons, got confusing.)
4. FF are very aware that some folks would prefer local control but they were trying to balance desired simplicity for their users with sufficient device-level functionality.

There's a ton of data earlier in this thread. Well worth a read.

Firefly gets a pass from me on this (I have one on order) only because it is an instant on/off vape. In the next few years as more of these types are introduced, this type of limitation will not be acceptable. I see the APP feature still being around to give you additional functionality, but having only one temperature available on the device itself? I don't think so.

I'll just have to make sure I have my phone on and app open when I vape.

P.S. I am also prepared that this won't be a big deal whatsoever.

 

[AngryJon]

In the next few years as more of these types are introduced, this type of limitation will not be acceptable.

Nah, I don't care whatsoever that I need my phone with me to control the temperature. I always have my phone with me. If it makes the device lighter and more reliable, I actually prefer this implementation.

I totally get that you don't want to have your phone with you to use more temperatures though. Just saying, I think there are enough people like me that find this "limitation" acceptable that I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for what you're looking for.

 

[kente777]

Nah, I don't care whatsoever that I need my phone with me to control the temperature. I always have my phone with me. If it makes the device lighter and more reliable, I actually prefer this implementation.

I totally get that you don't want to have your phone with you to use more temperatures though. Just saying, I think there are enough people like me that find this "limitation" acceptable that I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for what you're looking for.

We shall see in say, 2 years.

 

[Reggie Watts]

Not worried about the lack of temp control. That's more important for session vapes, I would think.

 

[mitchgo61]

Not worried about the lack of temp control. That's more important for session vapes, I would think.

It's just not a big deal in my experience. I can get pretty much the full range of temps I need just from Med-High. It's nice to bump it up to High if I need to but it doesn't really net all that much extra. Plus it takes seconds to use the app.

In a perfect world we'd have everything. But without more buttons, or a screen/display, functionality will have some limitations. I'd rather have the FF2 retain its form factor if it means I have to use the app.

 

[Buddy Summers]

For us folks that only have Windows devices,
I hope FF cares enough to at least attempt to create a Windows Store version
of their App.

I mean, honestly, I hate Android and cannot understand why so many Companies choose to ignore Windows users when Implementing Apps.

We are Vapers too!

 

[olympusmons76]

Firefly gets a pass from me on this (I have one on order) only because it is an instant on/off vape. In the next few years as more of these types are introduced, this type of limitation will not be acceptable. I see the APP feature still being around to give you additional functionality, but having only one temperature available on the device itself? I don't think so.

I'll just have to make sure I have my phone on and app open when I vape.

P.S. I am also prepared that this won't be a big deal whatsoever.

There really is no limitation, you select your temp to set your heat limit and you can then throttle the heat button on and off to control the temperature..this is a convection vape, it requires a bit of technique..if your looking to be spoon fed vapor get a crafty

 

[stickstones]

It's just not a big deal in my experience.

Once I get used to a new vape I pretty much keep it at one temp anyhow, with only the occasional change up. Not a big deal to me!

 

[Mr. Me2]

And this thing is getting some great reviews! Can't say I'm surprised...

 

[studmuffin]

Greetings, Firefly Nation,
I have been a stalwart member of FN since March of 2014. I have a gold Firefly2 on pre-order (Hurray !). I heartily endorse the introduction of software modalities, as this will allow Firefly to provide more relevant support and performance upgrades. Also, the app provides important battery status information, diagnostics, etcetera. Honestly, the push back on this issue from some people, while legitimate, has the distinctive tone of a Luddite. For me, owning a state-of-the-art vaporization device implies embracing current and future technologies. I am not afraid in the least.

 

[colonelcumbusto]

Greetings, Firefly Nation,
I have been a stalwart member of FN since March of 2014. I have a gold Firefly2 on pre-order (Hurray !). I heartily endorse the introduction of software modalities, as this will allow Firefly to provide more relevant support and performance upgrades. Also, the app provides important battery status information, diagnostics, etcetera. Honestly, the push back on this issue from some people, while legitimate, has the distinctive tone of a Luddite. For me, owning a state-of-the-art vaporization device implies embracing current and future technologies. I am not afraid in the least.

A braver stance has never been committed to the Internet.

I don't think people who don't want an app - that runs on a few devices that are notorious to privacy invasions by corporations and LEO - that interfaces with potentially grey-area activities doesn't make them a luddite. Presumably they're ordering over the internet and they understand technology, just they know not everything needs to be app-enabled just because the trend says so.

 

[Farid]

I'm very interested in this device, but I will admit, the smartphone being necessary is a big turn off. Now I won't go and say they should change that - it's their product. But I will say calling people who don't use smartphones Luddites is dishonest. I don't have a smartphone because I don't feel I miss anything from them. They take up too much space in the pocket, and I feel satisfied with a phone as long as it can call and txt. A Luddite probably wouldn't use a phone period. Not to mention they refused technology because it put their jobs at risk. Technology is no risk to me, I just want it to work for me, and not against me.

If the app was really taking some info from the internet and applying it maybe I'd feel it was necessary, but from what I gather its just used for changing settings on the vape.

I like technology, but one thing that turns me off from some products is unnecessary technology. For instance I have a nest at home for controlling the heating. In theory it's supposed to connect to the internet to help remember temperature settings and to coordinate with the outside temperature. In reality, it just seems to turn itself off a lot. I much prefer the analog heat control.

Now I'm sure there could be an app that would interest me. If a vape had a built in camera that allowed you to watch your load get vaped I'd probably be interested in it. But I'm not going to be motivated to get a smart phone if all it's offering me is the ability to change temperature settings - something that most devices have built in.

 

[jim-bob]

I suspect that if you don't own at least one iDevice you're probably not the main targeted demographic for this.

 

[studmuffin]

Hi colonelcombusto,
You make a valid observation. It is indeed a slippery slope, the juxtaposition of technological innovation/prowess and personal privacy. For me, I take reasonable precautions to protect my online privacy. However, I myself, like hundreds of millions of other people, have accepted the fact that the word "privacy" does not have either the same denotation nor connotation that it had even ten years ago. I use my debit card every day, and I have had to close my bank account five (!!!!!) fucking times because of hacking and identity theft. Each individual needs to determine their own comfort zone with respect to exposure to what I call Internet Terrorism. Will a hacker infiltrate my gold Firefly2 software and turn my dog against me ? ! ? ! Sheesh, I hope not. I luvvvvvs my doggie.

 

[mitchgo61]

I don't think people who don't want an app - that runs on a few devices that are notorious to privacy invasions by corporations and LEO - that interfaces with potentially grey-area activities doesn't make them a luddite. Presumably they're ordering over the internet and they understand technology, just they know not everything needs to be app-enabled just because the trend says so.

If you're worried about privacy, you should be way more circumspect about "ordering over the internet" than the FF app. My Visa number has been breached way more times than my phone or phone apps have. (For the record, credit cards=at least ten times, phone/phone apps=ZERO times.)

I don't think it makes anyone a luddite, but if you really "understand technology" and have ever worked on software or hardware systems, you know it's pretty silly to say shit like "jeez man, it's just so easy to add -X- feature, why don't they do it??" about a device whose design you don't fully understand, or worse, a device that you've never used, held in your hand, or even seen in real life. The FF guys are pretty fucking smart. If there were a way to give everyone every feature they want, right now, without screwing up twelve other things, they'd do it.

If the app was really taking some info from the internet and applying it maybe I'd feel it was necessary, but from what I gather its just used for changing settings on the vape.

You gather correctly. FF is not logging any data, doesn't much care about your app usage, and in ios there are no permissions required whatsoever. The Android permissions merely enable the FF to communicate via low power Bluetooth. (Again, anyone who missed this...read the thread. Been beaten to death pages back.)

I like technology, but one thing that turns me off from some products is unnecessary technology. For instance I have a nest at home for controlling the heating. In theory it's supposed to connect to the internet to help remember temperature settings and to coordinate with the outside temperature. In reality, it just seems to turn itself off a lot. I much prefer the analog heat control.in.

FF has the same goal, from what I can tell. They wanted to keep it as simple as possible while still adding some functionality. People told them they wanted more heat levels. They gave us that. They couldn't do that, PLUS battery level indicators, PLUS heat level indicators, PLUS making the form factor smaller (all of which were top requested features) without making the functionality too confusing and difficult for most users. (Remember, most users aren't FC-level vape geeks like us. ) They did the best they could making trade-offs between features, form, and usability for the vast majority of their customers.

I understand the complaints, but folks can kvetch all they want...the FF2 isn't going to include local heat control. Maybe they'll figure it out for a future version. Maybe no one will care once they use it (this is my take on it, but I could be wrong, I have a lot of practice at it! ) One thing seems certain: you can accept the device for what it is and what it does, or not. But as the kids say "it is what it is". This is what the FF2 is , and is not. No amount of hand-wringing will change it, and I am fairly sure any dire predictions of "this will hurt sales" will not come to pass....if the brisk pace at which they are selling so far is any indication.

 

[studmuffin]

Hi Mitch61,

WORD.

 

[colonelcumbusto]

If you're worried about privacy, you should be way more circumspect about "ordering over the internet" than the FF app. My Visa number has been breached way more times than my phone or phone apps have. (For the record, credit cards=at least ten times, phone/phone apps=ZERO times.)

I don't think it makes anyone a luddite, but if you really "understand technology" and have ever worked on software or hardware systems, you know it's pretty silly to say shit like "jeez man, it's just so easy to add -X- feature, why don't they do it??" about a device whose design you don't fully understand, or worse, a device that you've never used, held in your hand, or even seen in real life. The FF guys are pretty fucking smart. If there were a way to give everyone every feature they want, right now, without screwing up twelve other things, they'd do it.

I understand the complaints, but folks can kvetch all they want...the FF2 isn't going to include local heat , and is not. No amount of hand-wringing will change it, and I am fairly sure any dire predictions of "this will hurt sales" will not come to pass....if the brisk pace at which they are selling so far is any indication.

I actually really agree with most of what you and studmuffin said. I run pretty tight privacy control wtih xPosed on my android setup anyway, so not too worried for myself. For myself, I just hate having a phone on all day, I enjoy vaping in fact to stop staring at screens.

Larger point, i think privacy and security should always be engineered with the "lowest" common denominator - people who don't tihnk much about security, don't know much about how encryption works, etc. I'm sure the FF people are smart (and clearly making a choice about taking controls off the main thing, for a kind of UX/UI approach to LED lights was interesting) but they could have made it in a way that you don't *need* an app - maybe use a web browser in privacy mode, with the right port.. Etc.

Point is, you install an app, its a one way ticket only. Maybe the first version doesn't log or send data back. Maybe then the next version does - for feature requests, to store for example what the best pull time is - then maybe somebody buys Firefly and buys all their data (happens all the time with the dot com culture). Its scary and they should have thought more. This isn't a device that counts your calories for gods sake, or a credit card (which can be cancelled and legally reissued), depending on your country or state, it is literally used for felonious activities.

 

[studmuffin]

Hi colonelcombusto,
You make excellent points regarding the double-edged sword/paradox of common technology. ANYTHING can be hacked. If a human writes code, some thirteen year old kid in (insert country here) is sitting in his parents basement engineering a hack/breach. Just look at how a few students from MIT were able to hack the computer in a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee and take control of a vehicle traveling down the road. Are you fucking kidding me ? ! ? ! And, for those of you who have the latest and greatest television, be wary. These new televisions are "listening" to all of the sounds in your living room, or bedroom. Creepy. Plus, those homeowners who have whole-heartedly embraced the "smart home " concept have, in my opinion, dangled the keys to their home out in cyberspace, just daring someone to use an iPad to wreak havoc on their lives. For me, this is certainly where I draw the line. I do not want to live in a "smart home". No thank you. As for those people contemplating purchasing a Firefly2, each individual must decide how much Interwebbiness (my word) they are willing to accept. I personally have no qualms, at this juncture in time anyway, owning and using and loving my gold Firefly2. It's so-o-o-o-o purdy !

 

[mitchgo61]

- then maybe somebody buys Firefly and buys all their data (happens all the time with the dot com culture). Its scary and they should have thought more. This isn't a device that counts your calories for gods sake, or a credit card (which can be cancelled and legally reissued), depending on your country or state, it is literally used for felonious activities.

FF isn't logging, or saving, any app data. Any entity buying them won't acquire any app data. There is none. If you wanna worry, regular old customer records are more telling. But since vapes are legal, and often used with tobacco (and sold that way) most people don't really sweat FF or SB or Pax or Arizer having their name and address. Anyone paranoid enough to think a record of them buying a legal device might incriminate them would avoid credit cards, email, internet, etc.

! And, for those of you who have the latest and greatest television, be wary. These new televisions are "listening" to all of the sounds in your living room, or bedroom. Creepy.

Folks bored enough to spy on us through our smart tv are more than welcome to bask in the fascinating audio excitement that constitutes life in our house. They will learn a whole level of boredom.

 

[KeroZen]

Folks bored enough to spy on us through our smart tv are more than welcome to bask in the fascinating audio excitement that constitutes life in our house.

The usual "if you don't have anything to hide why worry" stance... In the meantime the manual of the latest Samsung connected TV advises its users to not discuss any sensitive subject or matter in front of the set... The entire world is engaged in covert industrial warfare and your argument has been used and abused to completely obliterate the latest bits of privacy we had by introducing laws after laws to constrain our liberties. It's also been used to justify large scale spying on all citizens by the NSA and its peers.

I'm a software engineer, I'm not a luddite. You can dismiss us all if you want, that won't change the fact that many of us think it's a very bad idea to require an app to change temperature settings, in a digital device already having buttons/controls on its interface, and especially if the app is not going to gather and use any data. Why bother at all? It's a gimmick at best and the proof is that all of you already claim that you will select a setting and forget it. So they introduce a nice feature but make it useless and you admit that you don't care about that feature in the end... To me it's a waste, sorry.

 

[studmuffin]

Hi mitch61,
When it comes to boredom, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. While an audio segment gleaned from your abode might peg the boredom meter, I am sure that you, and everyone else, except for webcam performers, would be thoroughly appalled and upset if someone had a video feed from their bedroom. Look at the incidents of hacking into baby room monitors, whereby someone was yelling obscenities at the innocent toddler over the device speaker. Or how about the hackers who spend hours (days ?) viewing whatever by hacking the webcam camera on people's computers. My laptop has a thick piece of duct tape over the lens. My point is this: everyone needs to ascertain for themselves what degree of technological-triumphalism (my phrase) they are willing to introduce into their reality. And it is the responsibility of the individual, within reason, to be aware and vigilant to detect and thwart breaches of their own information.

 

[studmuffin]

Hi KeroZen,
I totally understand your concerns from an insider's perspective. A long time ago, the majority of people welcomed "The Digital Age", with all of it's wonder and glory. What we know today is that the increasing dependence and sometimes mindless embrace of new technology sometimes bites us in the figurative ass. Who knew that "ones & zeros" would turn out to be the world's largest Pandora's Box. The horse ran out the barn door a long time ago, and closing the barn door now is merely esoteric.

 

[mitchgo61]

The usual "if you don't have anything to hide why worry" stance... In the meantime the manual of the latest Samsung connected TV advises its users to not discuss any sensitive subject or matter in front of the set... The entire world is engaged in covert industrial warfare and your argument has been used and abused to completely obliterate the latest bits of privacy we had...

I'm a software engineer, I'm not a luddite. You can dismiss us all if you want, that won't change the fact that many of us think it's a very bad idea to require an app to change temperature settings, in a digital device already having buttons/controls on its interface, and especially if the app is not going to gather and use any data. Why bother at all? It's a gimmick at best and the proof is that all of you already claim that you will select a setting and forget it. So they introduce a nice feature but make it useless and you admit that you don't care about that feature in the end... To me it's a waste, sorry.

Settle down. I was joking. (That's what those laughing emoticons are supposed to imply!) I'm not literally taking a position on the functionality of Samsung or any other smart tv. (I'm also not particularly worried about it, but I understand why some people are.) BTW you can turn off voice recognition on most smart TVs. I am not in favor of spying on citizens through tvs, or apps, and nowhere did I say or imply that.

I worked at Microsoft for years. I know plenty about software, privacy, and product development, which is why I have a very clear picture of the difficulty involved in feature tradeoffs, especially for user bases that have a broad spectrum of experience and device expectations. If you don't like the FF2 feature set, don't buy it. But again, hand-wringing and "aw come ON guys" isn't going to change this product. Buy it or don't. It won't change the current feature set.

You can deem the FF2 feature set "useless" all you want. Unlike you. I've actually used it. It's far from useless. Until you have experience with it, you are just guessing. If you get a chance to use one (I'm going to assume you won't be purchasing!) you might even find it useful and pretty cool yourself. You'll never know until you actually use it.