Supreme V3 Electric Conversion Kit

[Alexis]

Just a quick update ... been super busy this week, work, furnace problems, and was waiting for parts anyways for the coils, and got accidentally side-tracked a little bit

Here's just a quick pic of something I started working on ...

Looking to build a custom enail that is really full featured but economical. This is screenshot from my phone of the running app ... the touchscren I’m still working on but UI will be the same essentially. Just some highlights:

- touchscreen display and mobile app
- wifi access (can configure wifi settings from touchscreen display)
- different PID tuning algorithms to get the best possible settings for your different nails etc being heated (or plates for a rosin press)—these algorithms are still a work in progress ... I’ve implemented some but also want to implement lambda tuning amongst others
- option to support multiple coils maybe as an option with ability to have different PID settings for each.
- ability to setup different PID profiles so as you switch from one device to the next you can change profiles so it is always tuned optimally for your use

I’m open to other suggestions as well. I’m also starting to consider some ideas on building a complete vape, but not sure I’ll get around to that

Aiming to make these so they could be $200 ... maybe less. Really depends on if I can get material costs down and if the beta product is deemed to be solid and stable.


i did have the PID set to -55c at one point to make it accurate, but now with the modded coil it reads the SV3 temp and not the coil temp.

Pre-modded coil, it was running with the SV3 stable at 365F when the PID was set to 480F with no offset. No problems with a super hot coil. I’ve been running it a LOT. It’s been my exclusive and have been working a lot so often it’s been on pretty much straight for hours on end. It’s by far my favourite vape now and am missing it because I’m out of town right now!

Jcat, my money is here now- when will my Electric Ti Supreme be ready?!

 

[JCat]

@JCat

Can you explain the nodded TC and how it works? I'm not getting your explanation at the top of the page.
The new design looks awesome!!!

Jcat, my money is here now- when will my Electric Ti Supreme be ready?!

Lol ... I was thinking the exact same thing about t the Ti (in the shower I think!) and came to the conclusion that the properties of aluminum are likely much better than Ti for these purposes ... but also thought it would be interesting to look into to be sure ... although I imagine the cost to get a heat exchanger like that of the SV3 built out of Ti would not be cheap!

 

[Alexis]

Lol ... I was thinking the exact same thing about t the Ti (in the shower I think!) and came to the conclusion that the properties of aluminum are likely much better than Ti for these purposes ... but also thought it would be interesting to look into to be sure ... although I imagine the cost to get a heat exchanger like that of the SV3 built out of Ti would not be cheap!

Fair points! I will happily wait for the quartz version then in that case.

 

[szai]

Lol ... I was thinking the exact same thing about t the Ti (in the shower I think!) and came to the conclusion that the properties of aluminum are likely much better than Ti for these purposes ... but also thought it would be interesting to look into to be sure ... although I imagine the cost to get a heat exchanger like that of the SV3 built out of Ti would not be cheap!

For ti we'd just need to find the right madman for our purposes.

I just did a double decker .13g shatter on top of lemon skunk through a 12" beaker bong. It was pretty intense so much vapor! Just on and on and on. I see now what vapexlife meant by will make people run. I'm wondering now if maybe I shouldn't have done that dry.

Now my point If I did this on the catsv3 would I be ded? Seriously though how much more white walling would occur?

Oh I heated until about 310 before inserting then headed until 390 and didn't get a chance to see final temp but the sv3 killed it. It's the first time I've ever done anywhere near this much especially alone.

 

[szai]

For ti we'd just need to find the right madman for our purposes.

I just did a double decker .13g shatter on top of lemon skunk through a 12" beaker bong. It was pretty intense so much vapor! Just on and on and on. I see now what vapexlife meant by will make people run. I'm wondering now if maybe I shouldn't have done that dry.

Now my point If I did this on the catsv3 would I be ded? Seriously though how much more white walling would occur?

Oh I heated until about 310 before inserting then headed until 390 and didn't get a chance to see final temp but the sv3 killed it. It's the first time I've ever done anywhere near this much especially alone.

Update I'm arisin from a deep slumber! I was wrong dry was fine!

I did another heatup to 390 inserted from the get go.

Got a couple of good hits too. I probably cleared the bong 8 times to finish the bowl.


Edit: I'm just wishing aloud here but if someone were to design a similar vape what would you want in it?

I'd like an sv3 x sv2 baby. A portable that was battery powered would ideal. Though I'm not sure how feasible. If it was similar to the v2 but had a Shielded heater core. It would have an orifice to flame so it could be pocketed upon use. A flip out kickstand could be useful for when you're using it in desktop mode with the coil attached!

 

[highasakite]

Just a quick update ... been super busy this week, work, furnace problems, and was waiting for parts anyways for the coils, and got accidentally side-tracked a little bit

Here's just a quick pic of something I started working on ...

Looking to build a custom enail that is really full featured but economical. This is screenshot from my phone of the running app ... the touchscren I’m still working on but UI will be the same essentially. Just some highlights:

- touchscreen display and mobile app
- wifi access (can configure wifi settings from touchscreen display)
- different PID tuning algorithms to get the best possible settings for your different nails etc being heated (or plates for a rosin press)—these algorithms are still a work in progress ... I’ve implemented some but also want to implement lambda tuning amongst others
- option to support multiple coils maybe as an option with ability to have different PID settings for each.
- ability to setup different PID profiles so as you switch from one device to the next you can change profiles so it is always tuned optimally for your use

I’m open to other suggestions as well. I’m also starting to consider some ideas on building a complete vape, but not sure I’ll get around to that

Aiming to make these so they could be $200 ... maybe less. Really depends on if I can get material costs down and if the beta product is deemed to be solid and stable.


i did have the PID set to -55c at one point to make it accurate, but now with the modded coil it reads the SV3 temp and not the coil temp.

Pre-modded coil, it was running with the SV3 stable at 365F when the PID was set to 480F with no offset. No problems with a super hot coil. I’ve been running it a LOT. It’s been my exclusive and have been working a lot so often it’s been on pretty much straight for hours on end. It’s by far my favourite vape now and am missing it because I’m out of town right now!

Edit: to answer your question about the modded coil @lazylathe, the location of the thermocouple has no relation to the heat output of the coil, except that the end temp is controlled. A PID will typically output at 100% of your coil output for the first bit of time to get it to heat fast, then will start cycling it on and off (this cycling is how it controls power % output as the coils don’t take variable voltages to control output ... they use PWM basically). So through this cycling it decreases the power as the set temp is approached. If going up it slows down the cycling to slow the heating so it doesn’t overshoot ... similarly when coming back down to temp it will start increasing the frequency (output) to get it to turn around as the set point is reached ... the PID settings (calculus) determine how steady the temperature is under various situations.

The location of the TC only affects where the set point is measured from. Either way I was setting the PID such that the SV3 thermo would get to the temp I want, so the PID would essentially be doing the same thing. The only difference now is I’m actually measuring the temp I’m interested in. Hope that explains it!

Also, you’ll notice with just your regular enail, the only time a coil gets red hot is in initial heat up. The reason behind this is that if you are heating up a nail, quartz banger, etc. The heater is at 100% output for the first ?minute? well you approach the set point. Once the set point is reached, it will only ever be on at 100% for seconds and will generally be at much less, often 0%, through the PWM cycling (you’ll notice the same behaviour on the elements on your stove too by the way!)

Not my first BBQ and I think my understanding of PID control and heating is sufficient to say this is ok

Having absolutely no skin in the game, I propose a new business plan.

Ed sells the patent to the heat exchanger to JCat and he takes over everything from there. Maybe he can even figure out a way to actually have the current website, where he sells the vaporizer, to come up first when someone googles “supreme vaporizer.” That would be revolutionary... or just what any competent business owner would do within a few YEARS of selling a product.

Boom, winner.

 

[biohacker]

That would be revolutionary... or just what any competent business owner would do within a few YEARS of selling a product.

Even his PAYPAL uses his OLD website!

Going with the High5 LCD for my JCat modded coil/plates!

VAS cure on the horizon!

 

[JCat]

Hey everyone ... still on vacation ... but can’t get that idea for a vape out of my mind ... I think I might actually have the vague rough draft of an idea for the ideal desktop put together in my mind over the last couple days, to the point that I’ve even explained it to my significant other and have her support

I can’t see how anything I would be doing could possibly violate any patent as it’s all just standard engineering principles...

Actually starting to look at sources for machining prototypes for parts

Anyways ... guess I’ll start putting together some drawings and plans when I get back after I finish building everyone’s plates and coils

I’d like to get some drawings out to a shop to machine the core for me that would allow me to get going on building a prototype ...

Anyways ... just thought I’d share some of my excitement

 

[biohacker]

YEEESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. Enjoy the rest of your vacation! And give your wife lots of thanks from us too!!

 

[duff]

Awesome @JCat.
Sign me up!

 

[lazylathe]

@JCat

That's awesome news!!
Now go enjoy your vacation and forget about us!!

 

[szai]

@JCat

That's awesome news!!
Now go enjoy your vacation and forget about us!!

It seems it's vapes he's having trouble forgetting us probably not so much!

 

[JCat]

It seems it's vapes he's having trouble forgetting us probably not so much!

I have my still working Ti GH with me, my firefly 2, and my Crafty. Just broke my Zapubler though

Hoping PlanetVape can fix it for me!

Edit: also have my Quartz Quest with me

 

[szai]

I have my still working Ti GH with me, my firefly 2, and my Crafty. Just broke my Zapubler though

Hoping PlanetVape can fix it for me!

Edit: also have my Quartz Quest with me

How is the qq? I'm not really enjoying my Hercules. Maybe I'll give it one more try before selling it.

I think the puffco peak or my semi prognostication of a portable fp are endgame concentrates Vapes but the upcoming Triton seems interesting as does Divine tribes stuff.

 

[Alexis]

And as if he wasn't already cool enough, the awsome Jcat just keeps getting AWSOMER!

What a word, how come that isn't in the dictionary?
Keep up the pioneering Jcat and enjoy your break thoroughly bro.

 

[szai]

Try to make it capable of being powered by a 12v DC power supply.

 

[lazylathe]

Hey everyone ... on a roll ... here's some pictures of the setup with the modded coil. First tried without modding the coil by just connecting the thermocouple directly inside the PID and disconnecting the coil in there as well. Since this worked so well, I decided to cut the end off my coil, snake the wires (2-pair twisted from an Ethernet cable) down the length of the coil sheath, and add appropriate heat shrink then re-solder everything and seal back up

Here's the SV3 stable at 185C with the PID reading the temp from the external thermocouple (I also used a stainless steel pipe clamp to attach the probe instead of the silly silicone)

Sorry to bring this up again but i am still a bit confused and i am being told i am incorrect in my thought process... So i need to clear this up in my head!

Are you using 2 thermocouples? I did not think this was possible.

This is the sentence that confused the hell out of me:
"First tried without modding the coil by just connecting the thermocouple directly inside the PID and disconnecting the coil in there as well."

So it sounds like you cut the coil cable to gain access to the wire of the TC.
Ran down 2 new wires, most likely due to the original wires being too short by being cut, and then connected them to a TC that you connected at the same position as the OG SV3.
The 2 new wires were soldered into the pins allocated for the TC.

So to my mind, since the TC has been moved, the coil will still heat up more than what you have set on the PID in order to reach that temperature. The coil has to be hotter than the set temp in order to maintain that temp. All the TC is reading is exactly what the OG SV3 would read at that position when heating with a torch.
Have you measured the temp of the coil separately while running at your set temp?

I may be completely off base here, I need clarification of why this is superior to the SV4 when they have not been tested side by side.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@lazylathe From what i get with this mod,the PID reads the temp of the herb chamber and in case of SV4 it reads the temp of coil/heating element . When taking a hit ,the temp in bowl changes faster than the one in the block so i guess PID will try to compensate on it,in other words it will be more sensitive therefore superior .
I am clearly speculating here,i;ve never held a coil in person,neither an e-nail. I dont know if they can heat fast enough to compensate a temp drop with a heater of that size.

 

[JCat]

@lazylathe From what i get with this mod,the PID reads the temp of the herb chamber and in case of SV4 it reads the temp of coil/heating element . When taking a hit ,the temp in bowl changes faster than the one in the block so i guess PID will try to compensate on it,in other words it will be more sensitive therefore superior .
I am clearly speculating here,i;ve never held a coil in person,neither an e-nail. I dont know if they can heat fast enough to compensate a temp drop with a heater of that size.

Yes, that is correct. The temp drop will be reacted to more quickly and the temp rise more slowly if not during a draw (as it takes a bit of time for the heat to make it to the thermocouple)

The actual output of the heater is identical regardless of what the thermocouple is reading and where. When the PID is heating the coil, it is always heating at 100% power ... it controls power through cycling and how it cycles is determined by how your PID is tuned. So if for both thermocouple positions you are achieving roughly the same temps and response curves the heater is doing the same thing output wise. The difference is in the PID tuning and where you are reading.

Gotta go but will elaborate more later if required.

 

[lazylathe]

Yes, that is correct. The temp drop will be reacted to more quickly and the temp rise more slowly if not during a draw (as it takes a bit of time for the heat to make it to the thermocouple)

The actual output of the heater is identical regardless of what the thermocouple is reading and where. When the PID is heating the coil, it is always heating at 100% power ... it controls power through cycling and how it cycles is determined by how your PID is tuned. So if for both thermocouple positions you are achieving roughly the same temps and response curves the heater is doing the same thing output wise. The difference is in the PID tuning and where you are reading.

Gotta go but will elaborate more later if required.

So are you using two thermocouples?

 

[JCat]

So are you using two thermocouples?

No!

When I say I did it without modding the coil first it means I did the same thing without actually cutting anything but instead running the external tc separate connecting inside the PID and disconnecting the coil’s tc in there as well.

I could build a dual thermocouple PID if you want using an arduino or raspberry pi but don’t think it would add much value

 

[lazylathe]

No!

When I say I did it without modding the coil first it means I did the same thing without actually cutting anything but instead running the external tc separate connecting inside the PID and disconnecting the coil’s tc in there as well.

I could build a dual thermocouple PID if you want using an arduino or raspberry pi but don’t think it would add much value

So then in theory i am correct. It works like the SV3 except with a coil providing consistent heat to maintain the temp at the collar.
So how does this make it superior to the new SV4?

 

[JCat]

So then in theory i am correct. It works like the SV3 except with a coil providing consistent heat to maintain the temp at the collar.
So how does this make it superior to the new SV4?

I never said it was superior to the sv4

I always intended this as a way to make your SV3 electric, and not as a way to replace Ed’s SV4.

That being said, I do believe it’s important that the coil is nice and tight to the heat exchanger, and that’s probably why the ~125-150F higher people are reporting running the SV4 successfully then I was running my SV3 pre-modded coil.

The modded coil I prefer as it then reports and tracks the temperature where I am interested in it.

I sure didn’t want to spend all the money on an SV4 when I have an SV3 with an identical heat exchanger essentially.

 

[biohacker]

Now go enjoy your vacation and forget about us!!

@JCat ENJOY your vacation!!! Forgot about this place for the next few, and when you're back home - get to work on our coils!

@lazylathe these are the reasons that I personally feel that the SV3 + JCat mod is superior to SV4:

- The SV3-JCat is a 2-in-1 vape - you can quickly detach the plates and you have your portable torch powered SV3. I know you already have an SV3, but the SV4 would be quite cumbersome in comparison as its not really designed for this purpose.

- The TC and where and how the temp is measured is HUGE to me. It's like after adjusting the PID parameter, you have a vape completely designed and all in one package, and in Celcius! I didn't like the way you had different temperatures at your probe and PID, I want ONE reading, exactly how the SV3 functioned! I really didn't like seeing the lag in communication and slow time for everything to adjust. The SV3-JCat is EXACTLY how the SV4 should work!

- Handle. This makes a massive difference!

- Customer Service! I can actually COMMUNICATE with JCat and he's a hell of a guy! In contrast I still don't have my money back, am in the middle of an international damage/fraud claim with Ed! I've never had such pathetic customer service and support in over a decade of doing this! I simply do not want anything to do with Ed again, and will support JCat instead since he actually gives a fuck!

 

[lazylathe]

@JCat ENJOY your vacation!!! Forgot about this place for the next few, and when you're back home - get to work on our coils!

@lazylathe these are the reasons that I personally feel that the SV3 + JCat mod is superior to SV4:

- The SV3-JCat is a 2-in-1 vape - you can quickly detach the plates and you have your portable torch powered SV3. I know you already have an SV3, but the SV4 would be quite cumbersome in comparison as its not really designed for this purpose.

- The TC and where and how the temp is measured is HUGE to me. It's like after adjusting the PID parameter, you have a vape completely designed and all in one package, and in Celcius! I didn't like the way you had different temperatures at your probe and PID, I want ONE reading, exactly how the SV3 functioned! I really didn't like seeing the lag in communication and slow time for everything to adjust. The SV3-JCat is EXACTLY how the SV4 should work!

- Handle. This makes a massive difference!

- Customer Service! I can actually COMMUNICATE with JCat and he's a hell of a guy! In contrast I still don't have my money back, am in the middle of an international damage/fraud claim with Ed! I've never had such pathetic customer service and support in over a decade of doing this! I simply do not want anything to do with Ed again, and will support JCat instead since he actually gives a fuck!

Take a chill pull bro and chill the fuck out!

You said it was superior to the SV4, I am trying to figure out how, that is all.
At the end of the day, they are doing the EXACT same thing, just approaching it differently.
One is a MOD to an older design and one is a newly launched design.
Just because you had a bad experience with the vape and the manufacturer doesn't seem to mean that everyone will have the same experience bro.

I think this is a moot point at the moment...

As always I respect @JCat immensely and may even buy a kit as his work is nicely documented and he cares about all of us and I want to test it out against an SV4.

I am sorry I wanted so many details to get my mind around it but it was important for me to understand how it works. Sorry it pissed you off but you know I require proof when anyone says "It's better than the SV4" when zero testing has been done! It may have been better to say that you prefer this design and to work with @JCat than the other guy...