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Random thoughts
- Thread starter Vicki
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Bazinga
Well-Known Member
Thank so very much for asking me to clarify my post. I am NOT in favor of ICE unless it's in my Marqarita. We can discuss ICE later. I was referring to the violence and destruction only. I believe I did mention in one of long winded posts that I thought that the military was brought in prematurely. There is your context.The entire context of this discussion is the military being brought in to LA. What did you mean by this if you weren't referring directly to the Marines and National Guard being sent to LA in response to people standing up to ICE? What other possible context could there be for this:
Well, I am responding here as a private citizen and i don't think anything Bazinga has said to me above is over the line anyway.
ACAB, including mods.
Vapviking - it doesn't matter if it's a moderator or poster. Stating something is a lie doesn't differentiate. I have shown emphatically what he said was untrue. Take my challenge and prove me wrong. You won't either. Because you can't. I have nothing against Grass. In fact, he has helped me with my posting issues. In doing that he has been nothing but helpful. He has been never been condescending up to now. If he going to criticize me he needs to be factual. He wasn’t. With this post he had the courtesy to ask me for clarification that I've provided. In fact, I have respect for the moderators as I imagine they are unpaid and have to put up with a lot of nonsense from posters (including me).
What does ACAB mean?
Grass - thanks again for allowing me provide the clarification. Thanks for not being confrontational.
As far as I'm concerned our prior posts relating to this post never happened.
My last post was made prior to seeing this one. No need to apologize. I appreciate your posts and discussions. Please don't stay away long.
Time for me to rattle Florduh`s cage - evil laugh here.
Oh rats. I just realized I posted back to pack.
You asked the question:
It absolutely was the government. It was ICE. Everything follows from that. The people of Los Angeles are defending themselves from the government (ICE).
Just to be clear, I think you are being disingenuous. I think you plainly know why the military was brought in, and who is responsible for the "riots". If not, that was why I recommended you turn off the right wing media.
It is a common acronym. Essentially it means that anyone working for the police, no matter their intentions, is acting for evil. There are no cops because the institution of policing is corrupt in its founding, organization, and daily function. To be a cop is to be complicit in gang style violence and destruction.
turk
turk
…pardon me if I submit a couple of points..the police are hired (in sf.) by a civil service commission. The police behave the way they do because that’s what the people who hire them want them to behave..it’s really that simple…the people on the civil service commission are there because they were appointed by the people we elect..to become a police officer you have to pass a series of exams (written test, physical exam…and then interviews…along with background checks etc)…Americans feel that the exam process identifies the “best candidates “…this is a false assumption…the purpose of the exams is to limit the applicant pool…there needs to be some accepted methodology to reduce candidates which eliminates or discourages litigation…thus the exams..the police will not change..until you change civil service commission…(good luck with that..I see no “political will” to do that)…
…interesting fact…the police are actually the most powerful union in this country..and they are not on my side..only ones even close to them in power..the sports athletes unions..(because Americans of all political/religious stripes love…to be entertained)…I add weed to this equation…it’s a form of entertainment…
..the police areen’t changing…don’t look for it..it’s not happening…you must address civil service and that’s definitely not happening…
…interesting fact…the police are actually the most powerful union in this country..and they are not on my side..only ones even close to them in power..the sports athletes unions..(because Americans of all political/religious stripes love…to be entertained)…I add weed to this equation…it’s a form of entertainment…
..the police areen’t changing…don’t look for it..it’s not happening…you must address civil service and that’s definitely not happening…
Bazinga
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely wrong. I have to reason to be disingenuous. My comments had nothing to do with who came first. I'll take your word that ICE came first. I will state again I'm only referring to the violence and destruction caused by the unruly group. Businesses were looted, vehicles were set ablaze (haven't figured out why they burned Waymos), etc. And, more than likely it wasn't the folks who ICE was arresting committing these crimes. I have no issue with peaceful protests. I've been there. Certainly, you will continue to blame ICE. People are responsible for their own behavior. What would have happened if along with the violence the "peaceful" protestors robbed a bank. Would you still put the blame on the government and/or ice? I'd really like you to answer this.
Yes, I watch right wing media. But, I also watch media that leans to the left. How else would I be able to form an objective opinion without listening to both. Don't you do the same? If not, try it.
You and I can respectively disagree with your opinion of the police. I firmly believe the police need more training. Disrespecting the police claimihg that all police corrupt without proof is, I will borrow your word, is disingenuous.Want an eye opener? Take a ride with a cop. Spend the day with them.
Yes, I watch right wing media. But, I also watch media that leans to the left. How else would I be able to form an objective opinion without listening to both. Don't you do the same? If not, try it.
You and I can respectively disagree with your opinion of the police. I firmly believe the police need more training. Disrespecting the police claimihg that all police corrupt without proof is, I will borrow your word, is disingenuous.Want an eye opener? Take a ride with a cop. Spend the day with them.
This is why I said you are being disingenuous. You literally replied to a message where I quoted you saying:
Who came first? The government.
Stop changing your story. I only replied because you asked who attacked first: it was ICE.
I would happily disrespect any individual cop or the police as an institution. However I was merely stating historical facts. Policing was created out of existing slave patrols in the nineteenth century. They were converted to their current form in order to violently suppress the labor movement. They continued to rain down state violence on our communities as part of the war on drugs. Any claim of friendly policing or protecting individuals is ahistorical propaganda.
florduh
Well-Known Member
From April, months before the protests
Waymo's Driverless Cars Revealed to Be Narcs as Cops Use Them to Probe Crimes
Footage from robotaxis is the newest data source for law enforcement.
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Bakin4Life
Oink
Bazinga said:
What would have happened if along with the violence the "peaceful" protestors robbed a bank
Wait, what?
In what scenario does peaceful protesting (quote marks eliminated by necessity) result in... a bank robbery ?
By the protesters? Maybe by some third (or second!) party using it as cover for their own actions, because they knew of the date in advance. But even that's far-fetched. Bank robberies are rare. But you had to play the 'what-if' game, again. You're equating protests with riots / looting, and they are not the same thing.
As for 'second' party I mention above... I'll let you chew on that for a bit. LIHOP / MIHOP aren't fables. Actually, I'll say it overtly -- government agents acting as clandestine saboteurs (remember Minneapolis / George Floyd?) There are other myriad examples. Entire books have been written on them.
My friend... you are never, ever going to get this board to shift en masse with you to siding with LE / military, without question. Too many of us have been harmed firsthand by their nefarious actions (and, no, we didn't 'have it coming'.) Spend your energies on people who are deserving of empathy. LE has overwhelming firepower, the executive, and the courts behind them, with the media erecting pedestals for their collective worship. Cue Lee Greenwood.
Exactly *what* do 'we the people' have as our advocate, now? SCOTUS? They just gave away *more* power to the executive, knowing that they were the very last guardrail in place. We have no one except ourselves, and half of us fight the other half, while the 1/10th of 1% literally laugh at the plebes, who are so easily duped into working against their own best interests.
Thus, we have no CHOICE now, but to take mass public action, and see if TPTB decide, 'Fuck it... Tienanmen worked out just fine for the ruling party" Want to take bets as to whether we'll be fired on? I'm willing to cover any and *all* bets that we will be fired upon.
And the same result will be had from it -- nothing except increased compliance with a totalitarian state.
"Governments should fear their people, not the other way around."
What would have happened if along with the violence the "peaceful" protestors robbed a bank
Wait, what?
In what scenario does peaceful protesting (quote marks eliminated by necessity) result in... a bank robbery ?
By the protesters? Maybe by some third (or second!) party using it as cover for their own actions, because they knew of the date in advance. But even that's far-fetched. Bank robberies are rare. But you had to play the 'what-if' game, again. You're equating protests with riots / looting, and they are not the same thing.
As for 'second' party I mention above... I'll let you chew on that for a bit. LIHOP / MIHOP aren't fables. Actually, I'll say it overtly -- government agents acting as clandestine saboteurs (remember Minneapolis / George Floyd?) There are other myriad examples. Entire books have been written on them.
My friend... you are never, ever going to get this board to shift en masse with you to siding with LE / military, without question. Too many of us have been harmed firsthand by their nefarious actions (and, no, we didn't 'have it coming'.) Spend your energies on people who are deserving of empathy. LE has overwhelming firepower, the executive, and the courts behind them, with the media erecting pedestals for their collective worship. Cue Lee Greenwood.
Exactly *what* do 'we the people' have as our advocate, now? SCOTUS? They just gave away *more* power to the executive, knowing that they were the very last guardrail in place. We have no one except ourselves, and half of us fight the other half, while the 1/10th of 1% literally laugh at the plebes, who are so easily duped into working against their own best interests.
Thus, we have no CHOICE now, but to take mass public action, and see if TPTB decide, 'Fuck it... Tienanmen worked out just fine for the ruling party" Want to take bets as to whether we'll be fired on? I'm willing to cover any and *all* bets that we will be fired upon.
And the same result will be had from it -- nothing except increased compliance with a totalitarian state.
"Governments should fear their people, not the other way around."
Flotsam
Well-Known Member
I hate to break it to you but this premise you cling to is a LIE! what evidence do you have that peaceful protesters are the one that cause all the damage & destruction??? You make that implication in your statement but it is not true. Where is your proof?
You seem to completely ignore that during the George Floyd protests in 2020 it was pro-Trump FASCIST groups that instigated both violence and destruction to Blame on the peaceful protests. The Police Station in Minneapolis was burned to the ground and on Fox News they automatically blamed the violence on the massive protests. Fox news NEVER issued a correction or clarification on this point and good luck finding any news on this subject from them. Fox is Trump's own version of Pravda.
Who can forget Donald Trump giving a shout out to his favorite band of Fascists, the Proud Boys at his debate?
Self-Described Member of “Boogaloo Bois” Pleads Guilty to Riot
Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police
A masked umbrella-wielding man helped incite riots and looting in the immediate aftermath of George Floyd's death, police said.
abcnews.go.com
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florduh
Well-Known Member
Trump's Labor Secretary from his first term was the Florida prosecutor who gave Jeffrey Epstein a sweetheart deal because he was told Epstein, "belongs to the Intelligence Community".
Jeffrey Epstein's attorney and fellow pedophile, Alan Dershowitz, defended Trump during his Impeachment trials.
Jeffrey Epstein died under mysterious circumstances when Trump appointees were in charge of the Federal prison system.
Anyway, I'm glad it turns out Epstein was innocent, and he killed himself because there was no evidence against him. We can all move on now
Jeffrey Epstein's attorney and fellow pedophile, Alan Dershowitz, defended Trump during his Impeachment trials.
Jeffrey Epstein died under mysterious circumstances when Trump appointees were in charge of the Federal prison system.
Anyway, I'm glad it turns out Epstein was innocent, and he killed himself because there was no evidence against him. We can all move on now
.
Flotsam
Well-Known Member
Trump's Labor Secretary from his first term was the Florida prosecutor who gave Jeffrey Epstein a sweetheart deal because he was told Epstein, "belongs to the Intelligence Community".
Jeffrey Epstein's attorney and fellow pedophile, Alan Dershowitz, defended Trump during his Impeachment trials.
Jeffrey Epstein died under mysterious circumstances when Trump appointees were in charge of the Federal prison system.
Anyway, I'm glad it turns out Epstein was innocent, and he killed himself because there was no evidence against him. We can all move on now
.jpg?trim=0,50,0,50&width=1200&height=800&crop=1200:800)
Fox News joins MAGA meltdown over Epstein flop, but steers clear of criticizing Trump
Fox News has added its voice to the white-hot rage that is flowing through much of MAGA media following the latest Epstein fiasco. But, as Justin Baragona observes, the conservative cable giant has yet to blame Trump personally for it. Will that last if Trump continues to deflect?
Noem rips CNN report claiming she delayed DHS response to Texas flood as 'absolutely trash'
DHS head Kristi Noem refuted a CNN report that her requirement for personal sign-off on DHS contracts over $100,000 slowed emergency response to deadly Texas flooding.
www.foxnews.com
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florduh
Well-Known Member
Disney wants to reboot Indiana Jones. That's crazy. Anyway, does anyone remember the context of the screengrab they used here?
geektyrant.com
Disney Reportedly Planning Full Reboot of the INDIANA JONES Franchise — GeekTyrant
It looks like Indiana Jones might actually be headed for the reboot treatment. According to a recent report from DisInsider , Disney and Lucasfilm are considering a full relaunch of the iconic adventure franchise. While nothing has been officially announced, The report said: “Lucasfilm is le
geektyrant.com
“Let it go, Indiana”Disney wants to reboot Indiana Jones. That's crazy. Anyway, does anyone remember the context of the screengrab they used here?
Disney Reportedly Planning Full Reboot of the INDIANA JONES Franchise — GeekTyrant
It looks like Indiana Jones might actually be headed for the reboot treatment. According to a recent report from DisInsider , Disney and Lucasfilm are considering a full relaunch of the iconic adventure franchise. While nothing has been officially announced, The report said: “Lucasfilm is le
Vitolo
Vaporist
Digga
Well-Known Member
"Its hot, dam hot, real hot" yeah fk summer it's the worst bloody season, only good for growing tomatos & pot. The reptiles like it thoughI went to Lowe's Home improvements, at noon....
.
florduh
Well-Known Member
It's good to know that all these powerful people were flying around in Jeffrey Epstein's jet for totally cool, not evil reasons! I guess he was doing charity and saving endangered animals on that island?
I don't remember the name, but some scientist mentioned Epstein was at some university findraiser. The one thing he remembered about him was how stupid and off putting he was. An absolute zero.
Epstein was a college dropout working as a math teacher. Where did his hundreds of millions of dollars come from??? What were all these powerful people hanging around with this loser for if it wasn't to have sex with all the girls Ghislane Maxwell is currently in prison for sex trafficking!?
I mean, right on the heels of Trump's very own WMD lie, they want us to swallow this too??? The government sure thinks we're all stupid, huh? Maybe they're right
Bakin4Life
Oink
(full disclosure: I'm about to talk about something here which could be very contentious. Reader discretion IS advised) 
(... and if ever there was a contentious sub-forum, this one qualifies! (yeah, I know, it's a 'thread'... sue me)
So, today, I was finally able to get a suitable replacement for my phone. There's a long story behind that, which I'll skip. But today was finally 'new new NEW phone day'. Yay me.
About 6hrs or so later, after getting everything transferred, reconfigured, reauthorized, along with TWO manufacturer updates with an Android 15 upgrade sandwiched in between them... I had my new phone working the way that I wanted it. Glorious! Except for one thing.
The last few joint updates between Android and Samsung produce system icons (calendar, phone, etc.) which look more and more like Apple's ecosystem icons. To which I say... "Why do you need to do this? You've got the better fecking product to begin with!"
(now let's see who jumps on that... hee hee hee hee hee )
And now I'm suddenly sad... because I realize I'm actually being a troll -- and posting this, anyway.
No, I'm not being malicious, merely mischievous. But I have a theory that people love their phone OS of choice almost as much as their personal value systems. So let's make it *game* theory! And may luck be ever in your favor!
(... and if ever there was a contentious sub-forum, this one qualifies! (yeah, I know, it's a 'thread'... sue me)
So, today, I was finally able to get a suitable replacement for my phone. There's a long story behind that, which I'll skip. But today was finally 'new new NEW phone day'. Yay me.
About 6hrs or so later, after getting everything transferred, reconfigured, reauthorized, along with TWO manufacturer updates with an Android 15 upgrade sandwiched in between them... I had my new phone working the way that I wanted it. Glorious! Except for one thing.
The last few joint updates between Android and Samsung produce system icons (calendar, phone, etc.) which look more and more like Apple's ecosystem icons. To which I say... "Why do you need to do this? You've got the better fecking product to begin with!"
(now let's see who jumps on that... hee hee hee hee hee )
And now I'm suddenly sad... because I realize I'm actually being a troll -- and posting this, anyway.
No, I'm not being malicious, merely mischievous. But I have a theory that people love their phone OS of choice almost as much as their personal value systems. So let's make it *game* theory! And may luck be ever in your favor!
Flotsam
Well-Known Member
florduh
Well-Known Member
Random thought: I like how suburban news watchers expect loosely organized protestors to be perfect, but never have that expectation for violent feral hog cops
I wish Zohran was that cool. His tax proposal was an extra 2% in taxes for every dollar earned after $1 million. So, if you make a million per year, no new taxes. If you make $1.1 million, you'd owe an extra $2,000.
The median HOUSEHOLD income in NYC is $75,000. Less than 1% of New Yorkers make over $800k per year.
Mamdani is a moderate
I wish Zohran was that cool. His tax proposal was an extra 2% in taxes for every dollar earned after $1 million. So, if you make a million per year, no new taxes. If you make $1.1 million, you'd owe an extra $2,000.
The median HOUSEHOLD income in NYC is $75,000. Less than 1% of New Yorkers make over $800k per year.
Mamdani is a moderate
Bazinga
Well-Known Member
Florduh, Grass, Bakin4life and Flotsam
Thank you for your posts. Some of them had genuine concerns relative to my comments. I can understand your concerns since I must have been unclear in my meaning. so, hopefully, for the last time, I'll attempt to make myself clear.
1) I don't like ICE, in fact I detest ICE.
2) I stand by my comments that the military (National Guard. etc,) were called in after the protectors became violent and participated in destruction of private property and bodily harm. Yes, ICE was there first. No dispute. I have all the respect for those who peacefully protested. If I was there, I might have joined them.
Here is the timeline:
June 6th - ICE agents carry out a series of immigration sweeps across Southern California. Several hours later, a large group of protesters gathered outside the Edward R. Roybal Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse downtown, calling for an end to immigration raids in the city. Video footage shows protesters vandalizing the building, heckling police and throwing bottles and other objects at officers who used shields to protect themselves.
June 7th - Throughout the night, protesters still assembled at the downtown federal complex were seen throwing fireworks, rocks, glass bottles and other objects at police, who responded by firing less-lethal projectiles and flash-bangs to disperse protesters.
June 8th -National Guard Troops began arriving in Los Angeles around 4 a.m., taking up a position outside the Roybal federal building. Video captured other demonstrators standing on an overpass throwing objects, including at least one scooter and bicycle, at California Highway Patrol officers and their vehicle as the CHP attempted to remove protesters from the freeway.
June 9th - U.S. military officials confirmed that 700 members of the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines at Twentynine Palms, California, are being deployed to Los Angeles.
Don't even bother suggesting that this information was concocted by me or was provided by the rightwing media. All information provided here came directly from ABC. I cut and pasted directly from their report.
If this hasn't made my position clear than the problem is with you. You may still disagree with me. That's fine. At least I've provided facts to support my position. If you do respond, kindly do so in a manner that encourages discussion. The sarcastic (and may I add unfounded) remarks by some of you doesn't help your position.
Thanks guys!!
Thank you for your posts. Some of them had genuine concerns relative to my comments. I can understand your concerns since I must have been unclear in my meaning. so, hopefully, for the last time, I'll attempt to make myself clear.
1) I don't like ICE, in fact I detest ICE.
2) I stand by my comments that the military (National Guard. etc,) were called in after the protectors became violent and participated in destruction of private property and bodily harm. Yes, ICE was there first. No dispute. I have all the respect for those who peacefully protested. If I was there, I might have joined them.
Here is the timeline:
June 6th - ICE agents carry out a series of immigration sweeps across Southern California. Several hours later, a large group of protesters gathered outside the Edward R. Roybal Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse downtown, calling for an end to immigration raids in the city. Video footage shows protesters vandalizing the building, heckling police and throwing bottles and other objects at officers who used shields to protect themselves.
June 7th - Throughout the night, protesters still assembled at the downtown federal complex were seen throwing fireworks, rocks, glass bottles and other objects at police, who responded by firing less-lethal projectiles and flash-bangs to disperse protesters.
June 8th -National Guard Troops began arriving in Los Angeles around 4 a.m., taking up a position outside the Roybal federal building. Video captured other demonstrators standing on an overpass throwing objects, including at least one scooter and bicycle, at California Highway Patrol officers and their vehicle as the CHP attempted to remove protesters from the freeway.
June 9th - U.S. military officials confirmed that 700 members of the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines at Twentynine Palms, California, are being deployed to Los Angeles.
Don't even bother suggesting that this information was concocted by me or was provided by the rightwing media. All information provided here came directly from ABC. I cut and pasted directly from their report.
If this hasn't made my position clear than the problem is with you. You may still disagree with me. That's fine. At least I've provided facts to support my position. If you do respond, kindly do so in a manner that encourages discussion. The sarcastic (and may I add unfounded) remarks by some of you doesn't help your position.
Thanks guys!!
florduh
Well-Known Member
Good thing cops and ABC news never lie!
LOL Reporters will get assaulted by the pigs, then tell their white suburbanite viewers it's the PROTESTORS who are the problem!
LOL Reporters will get assaulted by the pigs, then tell their white suburbanite viewers it's the PROTESTORS who are the problem!
Bakin4Life
Oink
Oh, c'mon Florduh. Mamdani HAS to appear 'centrist' right now. That's where all the votes are. If he were to go "full social Dem", you'd have more than that one guy on the left side running for the exits.
Would I embrace bigger change? Sure would. Maybe not *quite* as much as you, as fast. But first you get in -- then you do the shit you really want to do (and I know you will detest this example, but it's recent... Biden). While he didn't upend the entire system, he was probably the most influential for Dems (and their leftward allies) since FDR. And I'm not tongue-in-cheek when I say that.
I'll fully admit that his consolation prize of Garland to AG was probably the biggest mistake he made, and cost us so, so dearly. Garland was only picked for SCROTUS bc when Obama chatted with the turtle, the turtle said, "sure... we can live with him". I forget who else was on O's shortlist, but they were a lot less corporate- and police-friendly than Garland.
While I'd love large scale wealth redistribution (and I'd start that out at waaaay lower than $800K / yr, the bar has to be set rather high (notice it's already TWICE what Biden was hawking with his $400 K / yr, countrywide). Otherwise, the .0001 will be gaining supporters ("see? He's commin' for YOU! Hurr Durr Durr... ) And then you have Cuomo (or worse, Adams) back in office and 'everyone's happy'. Because NOTHING FUCKING changes. And at the end of the day, that's what people go for... out of further fear of loss of the meager things they cling to.
BTW, I really liked the cartoon you pasted. Which is one of your strengths... finding the "10K word pictures". I'm more of a 'words' guy (can't draw for shit, but I can go 65wpm all day, thanks to Mr. Whatzizname in HS typing class)
Would I embrace bigger change? Sure would. Maybe not *quite* as much as you, as fast. But first you get in -- then you do the shit you really want to do (and I know you will detest this example, but it's recent... Biden). While he didn't upend the entire system, he was probably the most influential for Dems (and their leftward allies) since FDR. And I'm not tongue-in-cheek when I say that.
I'll fully admit that his consolation prize of Garland to AG was probably the biggest mistake he made, and cost us so, so dearly. Garland was only picked for SCROTUS bc when Obama chatted with the turtle, the turtle said, "sure... we can live with him". I forget who else was on O's shortlist, but they were a lot less corporate- and police-friendly than Garland.
While I'd love large scale wealth redistribution (and I'd start that out at waaaay lower than $800K / yr, the bar has to be set rather high (notice it's already TWICE what Biden was hawking with his $400 K / yr, countrywide). Otherwise, the .0001 will be gaining supporters ("see? He's commin' for YOU! Hurr Durr Durr... ) And then you have Cuomo (or worse, Adams) back in office and 'everyone's happy'. Because NOTHING FUCKING changes. And at the end of the day, that's what people go for... out of further fear of loss of the meager things they cling to.
BTW, I really liked the cartoon you pasted. Which is one of your strengths... finding the "10K word pictures". I'm more of a 'words' guy (can't draw for shit, but I can go 65wpm all day, thanks to Mr. Whatzizname in HS typing class)