Discontinued Purple-Days Vaporizer

[the ob]

The whole thing reads like a master class in grassroots marketing, no?

Maybe. It was also a case of good luck/timing that this forum (the only one allowing free advertising for commercial posters) was kept up and going for about six months before the first member joined and made a post, and that Tom was directed here and allowed to post by vtac. Most of the good will for Tom and the PD was established early on and the ball just kept rolling like a snowball gaining size as it rolls. If vtac hadn't started the forum, stuck with it when it seemed like a lost cause, and allowed Tom to post, the PD's sales would have been a drop in the bucket in comparison.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if 1) MJ was legal, and 2) T&P eventually started mass-marketing and mass-producing PDs, T&P would make millions.

You do you realize what changes that would require, don't you? The cost of expanding the business to reach that level would be huge. You'd need a much bigger production facility, and employees would have to be added, with all the additional expenses involved. Maintaining consistent quality, with multiple workers (not to mention the inevitable employee turnover) involved in the build process, would be much more of a problem. 7th Floor is a great example of what can happen to QC and customer service when a small company grows too much too fast without making the right efforts on the service end.

And since you're new here, you're also not aware that this big expansion, no matter the demand, would never have happened with Tom. He had zero interest in expanding his operation beyond the two of them. And I don't know that he would even have been interested in making the changes to the PD design that would have been necessary to keep up with the competition, some of which now has a vapor path that's isolated from the wood, and more protection for the wood from heat. The PD design also still restricts wood choices to a handful, which is not the case with some other brands.

I think Fuck Combustion should take a look at how a vape's reputation is kind of copy and pasted through the thread as more people come and post positive comments after reading previous peoples' opinions.

And what should we do, after taking a look? There's enough fodder here, involving this product, thread, and person, for a good Master's thesis in either business or psychology, but we can't make people read through thousands, or even hundreds of posts, or tell them what conclusions they should draw from what they do read.

+! I think some of these new posters need to read the entire threads (I did when I joined) before making blanket comments and generalizations. I own a business and I can tell you it is not this easy or simple.

Regardless of which side you are on, you have to look at how the exit was executed. He clearly took shots at customers and FC. I am only surprised that he did not take specific shots at the other makers (although he might have in a cryptic way). I think it is amazing that so many are still defending after he basically called all of you (us) assholes. This is not how someone who is so revered should go out no matter how frustrated you are.

I own a business. How many customers to you think I would keep if I told them to F-Off and called them names. It might sound cute and funny in theory, but does not work in the real world. To vapemonkeys point, he had a large ego and could not handle not being "top dog" Instead of getting upset, why did he not take steps to improve and change his product to give him a edge?

Look, I am a fan of companies who build their brands on marketing. Nike and Apple are prime examples. Strong leaders who are somewhat full of themselves and run their businesses with complete control. Ultimately, you have to back up the talk with great products as well. You cannot just get upset as other brands pass you by. You have to continue to innovate while staying true to your brand. You have to provide excellent customer service as well, and at some point you have to check your ego and do what is right. I think the way this ended is very telling and proof of what some of us thought all along.

Anyone see the ending of the Wizard of Oz? This seems very familiar.

 

[vape-ape830]

Im having the same problem as wolface. Tapped the bottom the clean it, nothing to hard, and the insides were all wiggly. I e-mailed T&P and they told me to hit it. I hit it. It kept wiggling. Then they told me it was the power cord that was busted and told me to buy a new one. Anyway, just found out they are closed forever. great. My vape is busted and my warranty is gone. So if I want my vape to work, I guess I'm gonna have to fix it myself. Does anyone have any experience with the build-it-yourself pandora kit? any instruction that came with the kit might be very helpful in fixing/re-assembling my pd. the website says the design has been around since 1978, so how do i make my own?

 

[charliedontsurf]

Im having the same problem as wolface. Tapped the bottom the clean it, nothing to hard, and the insides were all wiggly. I e-mailed T&P and they told me to hit it. I hit it. It kept wiggling. Then they told me it was the power cord that was busted and told me to buy a new one. Anyway, just found out they are closed forever. great. My vape is busted and my warranty is gone. So if I want my vape to work, I guess I'm gonna have to fix it myself. Does anyone have any experience with the build-it-yourself pandora kit? any instruction that came with the kit might be very helpful in fixing/re-assembling my pd. the website says the design has been around since 1978, so how do i make my own?

Underdog is doing PD repairs! Check out his thread.

Welcome back, Lwein!

 

[Wolface]

Try adding some extra 1" retaining clips, They made mine alittle tighter but it's still not perfect by any means.

 

[Vitolo]

WB!

 

[IAmKrazy2]

WB!

lwien... Have we heard a single word from you yet? I would love to hear your incite. I will venture a guess that you may know a little more then the rest of us...

 

[Choism]

WB!

lwien... Have we heard a single word from you yet? I would love to hear your incite. I will venture a guess that you may know a little more then the rest of us...

Yeah, what happened Uncle Iwien?
We would all love to hear from you. You and Tom seemed like close buds.

 

[lwien]

I was and am as shocked as you guys are. The only thing I know about all this is what I've read here.

Edit:

I will venture a guess though, but please keep in mind that NONE of what I'm about to say has been communicated to me by Tom or Pammy as my contact with them has been just as limited as my participation here as of late.

I do know that both Tom and Pammy have had some health issues. That, combined with the ever changing vape market along with the efforts needed to viably participate and grow within that market "may" have played a part in all this. On the other hand, I could be completely off base here.

I realize that some of you have had negative experiences with Tom but personally, I have not. Like anything and everyone else, Tom is a mixed bag. Some good stuff in there, some bad. No different than any of us in that respect.

Personally, I wish them both the best and hope that whatever journey that they are on is a good one. The Purple Days name became iconic in this very young market and I am very sad to see it's demise. I really wish that Tom could have found someone who had the same passion as him about hand building a vaporizer and pass his legacy down to them so that the PD could remain and grow as a product, but I also know that Tom likes to do things his way, and "possibly" in his mind, if he wasn't going to build it, no one would build it.

RIP Purple Days.

 

[momofthegoons]

lwien, I am so glad to see you back. A voice of reason. Sorry you had to come back to this. Terrible surprise, I would imagine.

 

[the ob]

Lwien. Good to see you. Hope you are well. I am shocked that you had no idea.

 

[vap999]

RIP Purple Days.

The PD is history, perhaps to be known during its time on the market as the most popular log vaporizer (Eterra knock-off) with a reputation as a good product.

Maybe it's getting time soon for this thread, entitled "Purple-Days Experience," to be closed. The "Experience" part (Tom) is over! [This is easy for me to say, I've never even seen a PD].

Now we can finally move on to discussion of topics that were previously simply out-of-bounds, heretical. This includes built-in and after-market improvements and innovations. For example:
a) Why not have a threaded pipe end, so the PD can be attached to most anything else threaded (or anything threaded attached to the PD)? Wouldn't it be nice to be able interface with compression or other standard pipe fittings, or be able to screw on a GonG (ground glass fitting) adapter? To be able to use different diameter and types of vapor tubes?
b) heating/vapor tubes - Why be stuck using the same old vapor tubes? Why not different diameters (with the right adapter)? Why not ones that screw together to clamp a screen in place? And how about better screens (e.g., I use 320 mesh stainless steel)?
c) adjustable power supplies - I think PDs want to be free! - Free to run at any temperature within those specified by the manufacturer. For example, why not use a power adapter within the manufacturer-approved range, (e.g., 13-13.5 volt?) with a simple $10 patch-in digital/solid state dimmer switch (12-14 volts used in cars, boats, RVs, for LEDs, etc.), e.g., http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...ategory=PCB&Page2Disp=/specs/ldp-2a_specs.htm Even if you are perfectly satisfied with the operating temperature of your PD, wouldn't you or others like the option to go maybe a few, 5-10?F or more hotter or cooler sometimes.
d) screen(s) to protect the heat exchanger - eliminate PD spanking to remove debris.
e) alternatives to adding more retaining rings when the inner assembly starts to loosen from the outer wood - [Do PD users realize that they likely inhale all that missing wood over time?] Why not try injections of a pure silicone or ceramic adhesive, preformed silicone gaskets, etc.?
f) insulation - Does anyone else besides me think it's crazy that most vaporizers simply don't use any insulation? Why not back-fill, slip-in and/or cover the open/inner exposed wood area with an inert ceramic or silicone foam, silica aerogel, etc., which could be considered "safer" than the current hot air flowing over the inner wood surface (which is how it is, as I understand)?
g) improved heater efficiency - Why not add more heat sink mass (for those not concerned with fast heating-up)? How about a larger-sized resistor with more surface area for more efficient heat transfer? From what I've seen the much-hyped 72 fins are passive, i.e., air moves around this stacked assembly rather than air actually passing over and impinging each "fin" (standard stainless steel washer) -- something that should be easy to implement.
h) better use of modern materials and improved safety - Wood has no business in the hot air path of vaporizers! And why not use a PTFE/Teflon, fiber-reinforced silicone, reinforced glass, carbon fiber, ceramic composite or other alternative plate at the top to replace the metal disk that requires retainer rings and obviously conducts too much heat to the wood it touches?

I'm sure other people, actual owners (I'm looking at a long-dead Eterra), can come up with many other potential PD-relevant innovations and improvements. With the experienced PD kit-builders and others out there, maybe there will be PD (and other log vaporizer) modification, upgrade, rebuild, etc. services soon; or maybe the repair service providers will get creative. Although I look forward to next-generation "log" vaporizers.

 

[the ob]

RIP Purple Days.

The PD is history, perhaps to be known during its time on the market as the most popular log vaporizer (Eterra knock-off) with a reputation as a good product.

Maybe it's getting time soon for this thread, entitled "Purple-Days Experience," to be closed. The "Experience" part (Tom) is over! [This is easy for me to say, I've never even seen a PD].

Now we can finally move on to discussion of topics that were previously simply out-of-bounds, heretical. This includes built-in and after-market improvements and innovations. For example:
a) Why not have a threaded pipe end, so the PD can be attached to most anything else threaded (or anything threaded attached to the PD)? Wouldn't it be nice to be able interface with compression or other standard pipe fittings, or be able to screw on a GonG (ground glass fitting) adapter? To be able to use different diameter and types of vapor tubes?
b) heating/vapor tubes - Why be stuck using the same old vapor tubes? Why not different diameters (with the right adapter)? Why not ones that screw together to clamp a screen in place? And how about better screens (e.g., I use 320 mesh stainless steel)?
c) adjustable power supplies - I think PDs want to be free! - Free to run at any temperature within those specified by the manufacturer. For example, why not use a power adapter within the manufacturer-approved range, (e.g., 13-13.5 volt?) with a simple $10 patch-in digital/solid state dimmer switch (12-14 volts used in cars, boats, RVs, for LEDs, etc.), e.g., http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...ategory=PCB&Page2Disp=/specs/ldp-2a_specs.htm Even if you are perfectly satisfied with the operating temperature of your PD, wouldn't you or others like the option to go maybe a few, 5-10?F or more hotter or cooler sometimes.
d) screen(s) to protect the heat exchanger - eliminate PD spanking to remove debris.
e) alternatives to adding more retaining rings when the inner assembly starts to loosen from the outer wood - [Do PD users realize that they likely inhale all that missing wood over time?] Why not try injections of a pure silicone or ceramic adhesive, preformed silicone gaskets, etc.?
f) insulation - Does anyone else besides me think it's crazy that most vaporizers simply don't use any insulation? Why not back-fill, slip-in and/or cover the open/inner exposed wood area with an inert ceramic or silicone foam, silica aerogel, etc., which could be considered "safer" than the current hot air flowing over the inner wood surface (which is how it is, as I understand)?
g) improved heater efficiency - Why not add more heat sink mass (for those not concerned with fast heating-up)? How about a larger-sized resistor with more surface area for more efficient heat transfer? From what I've seen the much-hyped 72 fins are passive, i.e., air moves around this stacked assembly rather than air actually passing over and impinging each "fin" (standard stainless steel washer) -- something that should be easy to implement.
h) better use of modern materials and improved safety - Wood has no business in the hot air path of vaporizers! And why not use a PTFE/Teflon, fiber-reinforced silicone, reinforced glass, carbon fiber, ceramic composite or other alternative plate at the top to replace the metal disk that requires retainer rings and obviously conducts too much heat to the wood it touches?

I'm sure other people, actual owners (I'm looking at a long-dead Eterra), can come up with many other potential PD-relevant innovations and improvements. With the experienced PD kit-builders and others out there, maybe there will be PD (and other log vaporizer) modification, upgrade, rebuild, etc. services soon; or maybe the repair service providers will get creative. Although I look forward to next-generation "log" vaporizers.

Umm. I have certainly tried to avoid this as I think it is disrespectful to use this thread to sell others products, but if you look around, you might find others products are incorporating some of the ideas listed.

I am obviously a fan of other vapes. And as I said just like how I don't like other makers piping in competitors threads I am trying hard not to do that here. I'm just saying look around. A number of these ideas are already being used.

Unless this post was sarcastic which is what I thought at first. If so, please ignore this post. If not, look around.

 

[vap999]

RIP Purple Days.

The PD is history, perhaps to be known during its time on the market as the most popular log vaporizer (Eterra knock-off) with a reputation as a good product.

Maybe it's getting time soon for this thread, entitled "Purple-Days Experience," to be closed. The "Experience" part (Tom) is over! [This is easy for me to say, I've never even seen a PD].

Now we can finally move on to discussion of topics that were previously simply out-of-bounds, heretical. This includes built-in and after-market improvements and innovations. For example:
a) Why not have a threaded pipe end, so the PD can be attached to most anything else threaded (or anything threaded attached to the PD)? Wouldn't it be nice to be able interface with compression or other standard pipe fittings, or be able to screw on a GonG (ground glass fitting) adapter? To be able to use different diameter and types of vapor tubes?
b) heating/vapor tubes - Why be stuck using the same old vapor tubes? Why not different diameters (with the right adapter)? Why not ones that screw together to clamp a screen in place? And how about better screens (e.g., I use 320 mesh stainless steel)?
c) adjustable power supplies - I think PDs want to be free! - Free to run at any temperature within those specified by the manufacturer. For example, why not use a power adapter within the manufacturer-approved range, (e.g., 13-13.5 volt?) with a simple $10 patch-in digital/solid state dimmer switch (12-14 volts used in cars, boats, RVs, for LEDs, etc.), e.g., http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...ategory=PCB&Page2Disp=/specs/ldp-2a_specs.htm Even if you are perfectly satisfied with the operating temperature of your PD, wouldn't you or others like the option to go maybe a few, 5-10?F or more hotter or cooler sometimes.
d) screen(s) to protect the heat exchanger - eliminate PD spanking to remove debris.
e) alternatives to adding more retaining rings when the inner assembly starts to loosen from the outer wood - [Do PD users realize that they likely inhale all that missing wood over time?] Why not try injections of a pure silicone or ceramic adhesive, preformed silicone gaskets, etc.?
f) insulation - Does anyone else besides me think it's crazy that most vaporizers simply don't use any insulation? Why not back-fill, slip-in and/or cover the open/inner exposed wood area with an inert ceramic or silicone foam, silica aerogel, etc., which could be considered "safer" than the current hot air flowing over the inner wood surface (which is how it is, as I understand)?
g) improved heater efficiency - Why not add more heat sink mass (for those not concerned with fast heating-up)? How about a larger-sized resistor with more surface area for more efficient heat transfer? From what I've seen the much-hyped 72 fins are passive, i.e., air moves around this stacked assembly rather than air actually passing over and impinging each "fin" (standard stainless steel washer) -- something that should be easy to implement.
h) better use of modern materials and improved safety - Wood has no business in the hot air path of vaporizers! And why not use a PTFE/Teflon, fiber-reinforced silicone, reinforced glass, carbon fiber, ceramic composite or other alternative plate at the top to replace the metal disk that requires retainer rings and obviously conducts too much heat to the wood it touches?

I'm sure other people, actual owners (I'm looking at a long-dead Eterra), can come up with many other potential PD-relevant innovations and improvements. With the experienced PD kit-builders and others out there, maybe there will be PD (and other log vaporizer) modification, upgrade, rebuild, etc. services soon; or maybe the repair service providers will get creative. Although I look forward to next-generation "log" vaporizers.

Umm. I have certainly tried to avoid this as I think it is disrespectful to use this thread to sell others products, but if you look around, you might find others products are incorporating some of the ideas listed.

I am obviously a fan of other vapes. And as I said just like how I don't like other makers piping in competitors threads I am trying hard not to do that here. I'm just saying look around. A number of these ideas are already being used.

Unless this post was sarcastic which is what I thought at first. If so, please ignore this post. If not, look around.

I posted this as a serious post from an individual. There simply is no more Purple Days. It's time to move on, which includes discussions of topics, even technical topics such as I bring up, that simply were not welcome here before. Let's talk about about the PD itself, and how to make PD's and "log" vaporizers better.

 

[lwien]

The PD is history, perhaps to be known during its time on the market as the most popular log vaporizer (Eterra knock-off).....

Hmm.....I think that most people define a 'knock-off" as an inferior direct copy (without any improvements) of an existing successful product that sells under the market value. I don't believe the PD fits that definition. The numerous VaporBros knock-offs come to mind, as an example of this type of practice.

Regarding your other suggestions, as ob stated above, there are numerous log type vapes that have been on the market for awhile now that already address these concerns but for me, as well as many others, the PD, as it is, fits the bill quite nicely.

 

[the ob]

Screens, improved heater efficiency, and insulation all exist in one single device that I can think of.

 

[vap999]

The PD is history, perhaps to be known during its time on the market as the most popular log vaporizer (Eterra knock-off).....

Hmm.....I think that most people define a 'knock-off" as an inferior direct copy (without any improvements) of an existing successful product that sells under the market value. I don't believe the PD fits that definition. The numerous VaporBros knock-offs come to mind, as an example of this type of practice.

Regarding your other suggestions, as ob stated above, there are numerous log type vapes that have been on the market for awhile now that already address these concerns but for me, as well as many others, the PD, as it is, fits the bill quite nicely.

Regarding my labeling the PD a "knock-off," I used this in the sense of it being an outright copy (admited by Tom, as I recall) of the Eterra (and/or another log vape manufacturer's knock-off) with the only or main improvement being the addition of "fins" (which I think could be further more effectively implemented). To me, and I could be in a minority, "knock-off' means purposeful copying, reverse engineering; and I see nothing wrong with that, no particular negative connotations, other than when the original developer's/owner's legally-granted rights (e.g., patents, trademarks) are violated. There was none of that involved with the PD.

I bring up underlying and after-market design, modification and innovation issues because most of these have never been fully and critically discussed in this thread, which I presume to be the most-followed log vape thread. As a long-time repairer of my own dead Eterras, Flash Evaporators, etc. and in more recent years cobbling together similar vaporizers for my own use (I've never sold or even given one away), I am personally interested in log vaporizer-relevant upgrades and innovations. I presumed and hoped that with many of these topics never having been substantively discussed in this thread, that there might be a lot of pent-up good ideas out there.

But maybe it's just too soon for many hard-core PD fans to start to discuss the future, upgrades, innovations, etc. I may have mistakenly presumed that there could be discussions of technical issues, without old habits on this thread intervening, such as looking to criticize critics vs. addressing criticisms, looking to tag anyone critical as having suspect motives and too much critical parsing of individual words. If as multiple responses already cite, other log vaporizers have fixed issues with the PD, I say let's actually discuss how these might be applied to the PD. But if the thread wants to ignore my post, as has been mentioned, I can understand, many may still be in shock or distraught. We can revisit such technical issues in the future.

 

[baurman]

This just feels like all a movie. Is this real life? Tom & Pammy just quitting? Leaving their customers behind with no words on warranty and disappearing from the face of the planet. Excruciating news. Very excruciating. I am unsure if I want to continue to use my Purple Days with worries of something being discovered about it that is harmful to your health. Again, no word on Tom other than a big slap in the face (that's what it feels like to me, like he slapped my damn face.) But in conclusion, what can we do? He's gone. Forever.

 

[photokographer]

Does anyone have experience with a loose core without having to put retaining clips in? (is the hitting method actually a fix?)

 

[Hippie Dickie]

@vap999 - i love to discuss technical issues, but perhaps a separate thread would be a better place to discuss a different vape based on the PD design.

 

[momofthegoons]

^^^^
+1. I think the only person who had (has?) a problem discussing log vapes and improvements was Tom!

So, start a thread. I don't think anyone here on the forum, log manufacturers included, would mind input.

 

[MG23]

Does anyone have experience with a loose core without having to put retaining clips in? (is the hitting method actually a fix?)

If I let mine go cold (very rarely) the heater core can go loose and stop warming up. Hitting it tight again with the little included wooden tool has worked everytime. So yes, I would consider the hitting method a fix.

 

[lwien]

I bring up underlying and after-market design, modification and innovation issues because most of these have never been fully and critically discussed in this thread, which I presume to be the most-followed log vape thread. As a long-time repairer of my own dead Eterras, Flash Evaporators, etc. and in more recent years cobbling together similar vaporizers for my own use (I've never sold or even given one away), I am personally interested in log vaporizer-relevant upgrades and innovations. I presumed and hoped that with many of these topics never having been substantively discussed in this thread, that there might be a lot of pent-up good ideas out there.

I just don't understand your desire to discuss these issues in this particular thread when these issues have not only been discussed in other VERY well-read threads, but that these issues have actually already been addressed and actually implemented in other log-type vapes recently introduced in the market.

But maybe it's just too soon for many hard-core PD fans to start to discuss the future, upgrades, innovations, etc. I may have mistakenly presumed that there could be discussions of technical issues, without old habits on this thread intervening, such as looking to criticize critics vs. addressing criticisms, looking to tag anyone critical as having suspect motives and too much critical parsing of individual words. If as multiple responses already cite, other log vaporizers have fixed issues with the PD, I say let's actually discuss how these might be applied to the PD. But if the thread wants to ignore my post, as has been mentioned, I can understand, many may still be in shock or distraught. We can revisit such technical issues in the future.

Again, I don't understand your desire to apply these issues to the PD being that the PD is no longer being manufactured. And regarding it being too soon to discuss future innovations to the log type design, I, personally, do not have ANY issues in discussing this topic and absolutely see no reason to postpone such discussions but applying these discussions to a vape that is no longer in production when other manufacturers have either already implemented them in their log-type designs or are in the process of implementing them makes no sense to me, so I ask you, why try to apply them to a vape that is no longer being produced ? And, btw, while it's true that I am a huge fan of the PD, I would be saying the same thing about ANY vape under these same circumstances, even it's a vape that I have never used.

If you desire to see these changes that have already been implimented in this type of vape, you need to look no further than the threads on the Zap, the Underdog, the Bud Toaster, the Toasty Top, etc etc etc.

One more thing. If you really feel that I have a problem in discussing possible shortcomings of the PD, please read this thread: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=3672

 

[Hippie Dickie]

If you desire to see these changes that have already been implimented in this type of vape, you need to look no further than the threads on the Zap, the Underdog, the Bud Toaster, the Toasty Top, etc etc etc.

waitaminute ... only the very early Bud Toasters, in the first 8 years of development, were anything like a "log vape" -- i.e. fixed current to (try to) hit and maintain a fixed temperature. These last two years, as the Bud Toaster has moved on to dynamic temperature control -- with 90 seconds to first satisfying hit and no drop in temperature during a hit -- it is in a totally different realm. Much more like a Solo, a VXH, or NO2. Except the BT has an all glass vapor path, of course.

 

[lwien]

If you desire to see these changes that have already been implimented in this type of vape, you need to look no further than the threads on the Zap, the Underdog, the Bud Toaster, the Toasty Top, etc etc etc.

waitaminute ... only the very early Bud Toasters, in the first 8 years of development, were anything like a "log vape" -- i.e. fixed current to (try to) hit and maintain a fixed temperature. These last two years, as the Bud Toaster has moved on to dynamic temperature control -- with 90 seconds to first satisfying hit and no drop in temperature during a hit -- it is in a totally different realm. Much more like a Solo, a VXH, or NO2. Except the BT has an all glass vapor path, of course.

Oooops. Sorry. I'm soooo behind the times. My bad.

 

[the ob]

I bring up underlying and after-market design, modification and innovation issues because most of these have never been fully and critically discussed in this thread, which I presume to be the most-followed log vape thread. As a long-time repairer of my own dead Eterras, Flash Evaporators, etc. and in more recent years cobbling together similar vaporizers for my own use (I've never sold or even given one away), I am personally interested in log vaporizer-relevant upgrades and innovations. I presumed and hoped that with many of these topics never having been substantively discussed in this thread, that there might be a lot of pent-up good ideas out there.

I just don't understand your desire to discuss these issues in this particular thread when these issues have not only been discussed in other VERY well-read threads, but that these issues have actually already been addressed and actually implemented in other log-type vapes recently introduced in the market.

But maybe it's just too soon for many hard-core PD fans to start to discuss the future, upgrades, innovations, etc. I may have mistakenly presumed that there could be discussions of technical issues, without old habits on this thread intervening, such as looking to criticize critics vs. addressing criticisms, looking to tag anyone critical as having suspect motives and too much critical parsing of individual words. If as multiple responses already cite, other log vaporizers have fixed issues with the PD, I say let's actually discuss how these might be applied to the PD. But if the thread wants to ignore my post, as has been mentioned, I can understand, many may still be in shock or distraught. We can revisit such technical issues in the future.

Again, I don't understand your desire to apply these issues to the PD being that the PD is no longer being manufactured. And regarding it being too soon to discuss future innovations to the log type design, I, personally, do not have ANY issues in discussing this topic and absolutely see no reason to postpone such discussions but applying these discussions to a vape that is no longer in production when other manufacturers have either already implemented them in their log-type designs or are in the process of implementing them makes no sense to me, so I ask you, why try to apply them to a vape that is no longer being produced ? And, btw, while it's true that I am a huge fan of the PD, I would be saying the same thing about ANY vape under these same circumstances, even it's a vape that I have never used.

If you desire to see these changes that have already been implimented in this type of vape, you need to look no further than the threads on the Zap, the Underdog, the Bud Toaster, the Toasty Top, etc etc etc.

One more thing. If you really feel that I have a problem in discussing possible shortcomings of the PD, please read this thread: http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=3672

this x100. I really do not understand what the poster is trying to accomplish?? Well said Lwien.

edit, ok minus the budtoaster......