Phase3 Vaporizers
- Thread starter invertedisdead
- Start date
nonamekevin
Well-Known Member
Hello friend!
Hope your doing well homie. The idea of being able to switch up the vape signature by changing the materials is very intriguing indeed!
From your posts and the convos we've had, you strike me as an analytical person. Taste, effects and clouds seem like subjective measures, as well as highly dependent on plant material used. Besides using the same herb for all of your trials, I'm really interested to hear your ideas about how you want to quantify some of these other traits you mention? It's something that I've been curious about in the vape industry, because many manufacturers/consumers make statements about their vapes that are anecdotal at best, imo.
Super stoked on this vape homie! Everytime I see a notification that there are new posts in this thread I get excited to read them.
Hope your doing well homie. The idea of being able to switch up the vape signature by changing the materials is very intriguing indeed!
From your posts and the convos we've had, you strike me as an analytical person. Taste, effects and clouds seem like subjective measures, as well as highly dependent on plant material used. Besides using the same herb for all of your trials, I'm really interested to hear your ideas about how you want to quantify some of these other traits you mention? It's something that I've been curious about in the vape industry, because many manufacturers/consumers make statements about their vapes that are anecdotal at best, imo.
Super stoked on this vape homie! Everytime I see a notification that there are new posts in this thread I get excited to read them.
Hello friend!
Hope your doing well homie. The idea of being able to switch up the vape signature by changing the materials is very intriguing indeed!
From your posts and the convos we've had, you strike me as an analytical person. Taste, effects and clouds seem like subjective measures, as well as highly dependent on plant material used. Besides using the same herb for all of your trials, I'm really interested to hear your ideas about how you want to quantify some of these other traits you mention? It's something that I've been curious about in the vape industry, because many manufacturers/consumers make statements about their vapes that are anecdotal at best, imo.
Super stoked on this vape homie! Everytime I see a notification that there are new posts in this thread I get excited to read them.
Cheers bro!
Unfortunately all that cool stuff is gonna be pretty much entirely subjective, I think some of these variables could be quantified to some degree with lab analysis methods, but nobody would want to pay for it. It would be an awesome experiment for someone who had access to the right equipment, but probably out of reach for the budget of this niche project. Truthfully, you'd need a lab grade "smoking machine" to collect consistent data since individual use with convection vaporizers varies so much.
Instead I just want to be able to compare everything mentallly, in as similar of an environment as I can achieve. For example, you could compare a Supreme (aluminum) side by side with an Elev8r (quartz) but the two vapes are so fundamentally different in heater design, it doesn't really provide a direct comparison of the effects of the material choice, which is what I want to investigate as I'm intrigued by the materials science. With this vaporizer, I can have two identical setups running side by side on a dual XLR controller, with the only difference being different convection cores, and get a pretty good feeling of how the vapor differs. It's not extremely scientific in any way, but I used the same comparison setup with quartz bangers to compare various insert materials side by side and found it very useful. Many of my biases towards certain materials come from my experiences dabbing, so I'm interested to see whether I have a different opinion on certain materials when used to heat air, versus vaporizing directly off said surface; as I do think it could make a noticable difference.
I'm pretty weird
'cause I'm really into the metaphysics of things as much as the regular physics. I like to incorporate established science, but I do believe there is an (abstract) art involved to all of it as well! 
androponic
vaped.
im in for this as well!
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Im confused about the coil currently. If you are using a 19mm coil, but need one that is more snug, why would you try a bigger 20mm, instead of a smaller size?
The ability to change / compare spheres idea is genius.
I also prefer sapphire over glass (when dabbing) and I feel it will be the same for flowers. Even tho glass is still good.
For the ceramic spheres, we would use Alumina ceramic, aka aluminum oxide. Correct?
SiC is a cool option, but probably not at the top of my want list. SiC is great for how durable it is, but thats not really a factor with the spheres being inside the glass/quartz.
And you've definitely decided on going with 4mm spheres correct? Have you tried 5mm? Thats what the GS uses and its airflow was good in my opinion.
The ability to change / compare spheres idea is genius.
I also prefer sapphire over glass (when dabbing) and I feel it will be the same for flowers. Even tho glass is still good.
For the ceramic spheres, we would use Alumina ceramic, aka aluminum oxide. Correct?
SiC is a cool option, but probably not at the top of my want list. SiC is great for how durable it is, but thats not really a factor with the spheres being inside the glass/quartz.
And you've definitely decided on going with 4mm spheres correct? Have you tried 5mm? Thats what the GS uses and its airflow was good in my opinion.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Teaser - Ti spheres and IH...
carry on
I feel titanium would be one of the least flavorful choices, but if you like titanium go for it.
Also, what is IH?
nonamekevin
Well-Known Member
You'd have to account for the thermal expansion of the metal spheres, otherwise you're gonna crack the glass.
@MileHighHuman I think he's currently using a 20mm coil with a 19mm diameter vape.
@MileHighHuman I think he's currently using a 20mm coil with a 19mm diameter vape.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
You'd have to account for the thermal expansion of the metal spheres, otherwise you're gonna crack the glass.
@MileHighHuman I think he's currently using a 20mm coil with a 19mm diameter vape.
On page 2 he says : " As far as coil fitment this prototype is 19mm OD, I'm gonna make the next one 20mm like my first prototype was. Unfortunately due to the nature of glass it may require some coil adjustment to achieve the ideal fit - I broke my first 20mm prototype from the coil contracting on the cool down. That was borosilicate though which expands more than quartz; final version will probably be Quartz. The 19mm prototype still works great, even with the coil barely making contact this vape is a beast!
and I run it lower than I ran my Flowerpot, but I expect PID temps to drop at least a hundred degrees more on the finished version."Whenever I read this I got confused thinking the 19mm OD was referring to the coil. So, he is using a 20mm coil with 19 vape currently, but is going to make the next vape 20mm OD so the 20mm coil should hopefully be able to fit it perfectly snug.
Thx for clearing that up for me!
Also, ive not gave my thoughts on the quartz or born body for the vape. I feel like id prefer the flavor from the boro, but the quartz durability would be nice. Id pick boro tho if we can confirm the coil won't contract and crack it often. I love great flavor, it makes vaping so enjoyable. I don't think the quartz would be bad, but I assume the boro would taste better. Plus it'd be cheaper correct?
Its been awhile since ive researched the ELEV8TR, so correct me if im wrong, but cant both the quartz and boro versions be modified to use with enail? If so which one were people preferring for flavor?
I appreciate your interest in my sapphire evaporator!
You could definitely try alumina ceramic spheres!
I haven't tried 5mm but I did try 6mm for a while. Realistically any size could be used, one could easily go smaller in size to increase the draw restriction. I really enjoy the current airflow, I wanted something that felt like taking an old school bong hit with a packed one-hole bowl; it's pretty reminescent of that: the air inlet is 4mm which is close to that of a one hole push slide, and the pearl maze adds a little draw restriction too, kind of simulating a "packed" bowl. The actual herb is very free flowing of course with a mesh screen. The GS has a much larger heater, so possibly bigger pearls were needed to keep the airflow from feeling too restricted?
With this vape, the harder you rip it, the harder/faster you can crush a bowl. Very similar to an old school snap in that regard
Teaser - Ti spheres and IH
I might even try aluminum "just to see"
Yes that's correct!
My earlier prototype was 20mm, but it broke quickly. I knew it felt a too snug when I put the coil on, but one of the goals of this vape was to not need any coil fitment. However, due to the nature of glass I'm not sure that is really possible. I had a highdea to try 19mm Simax cause I was buzzed enough to think 1mm wasn't a big deal........
I was wrong there
but this thing still rips super hard for barely being plugged in lol; kinda trips me out honestly, I guess that's just the power of the sapphire. The final version will be 20mm, but it may require some minor coil fitment for people using existing 20mm coils; Of course, I'll fit all of them myself that I sell pre-paired with a coil. Speaking of coils, this vape was designed to use any 20mm coil, but I'm specifically using the 20mm "tall" from 710coils myself as it has a few extra coil wraps which IMO can only help!
You're correct that boro would be more affordable as its cheaper to work with and the stock parts are cheaper; as far as flavor differences between boro and quartz I really have no idea, some people in the Elev8r thread claim boro tastes much better than quartz; which, as a long term dabber I found very surprising to read - but I can't really say one way or the other. With this vape though, the glass (or quartz) serves more as an oven to retain heat inside, with the air mostly being heated from the pearls. Quartz and borosilicate are relatively similar as far as thermal properties, so I'm really not sure how much the flavor would be impacted, but potentially I could just offer this vape in both quartz and borosilicate. Quartz would probably turn this into one hell of a torch vape though...
nonamekevin
Well-Known Member
If you ask @LabPong, he's said he prefers the boro elev8r. I got into the elev8r when they only offered the quartz. Both can be used with a "massaged" 16mm coil.
Edit: @invertedisdead, the glass piece prototype that I commissioned was spec'd out to be a 20mm tube, it wound up coming in at 19.38mm at the smallest and 19.78mm at the largest. The second one I got was a little tighter in tolerance, but still variance.
Is there much difference in size between the two 20mm coils you have been using?
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lazylathe
Almost there...
Since we are throwing ideas around...
How about a mixed media vape, combining the best characteristics of a variety of materials?
A few ruby, boro etc spheres...
I remember chatting with JoJo about the GS and he mentioned adding smaller beads to increase the draw resistance if required or lessen the number of regular beads for an even more open flow.
So technically, this vape could be user customizable for draw restriction!
You could open up a whole new market here.
ps. still throwing money at the screen when reading this thread to no avail...
How about a mixed media vape, combining the best characteristics of a variety of materials?
A few ruby, boro etc spheres...
I remember chatting with JoJo about the GS and he mentioned adding smaller beads to increase the draw resistance if required or lessen the number of regular beads for an even more open flow.
So technically, this vape could be user customizable for draw restriction!
You could open up a whole new market here.
ps. still throwing money at the screen when reading this thread to no avail...
Yeah I think it's tricky since the glass tubing probably falls out of tolerance a bit more when the glassblower is hot-working the details in.
I'm not sure on that one as I've only been using this one coil for testing this vape so far, but I was kindly sent a custom extra-tall 8 wrap 20mm coil to experiment with. It's just a little too tall for this vape currently though. I doubt I'm gonna make this vape any taller so it probably won't see use on this design, but perhaps another!
Since we are throwing ideas around...
How about a mixed media vape, combining the best characteristics of a variety of materials?
A few ruby, boro etc spheres...
I remember chatting with JoJo about the GS and he mentioned adding smaller beads to increase the draw resistance if required or lessen the number of regular beads for an even more open flow.
So technically, this vape could be user customizable for draw restriction!
You could open up a whole new market here.
ps. still throwing money at the screen when reading this thread to no avail...
I experimented with a 6mm/4mm ruby/sapphire combo for a while, there's definitely tons of combinations that could be done to tailor it to ones exact preferences. You could definitely do any combination of mixed media; I really want to do a signature one with RGB (red/green/blue) rubies/sapphires all mixed in together; like one of those bitchin' old TV projectors lol.
@Morty probably still has one of these
I keep trying to pick up all this money, but apparently my software is outdated and it's asking if I would like to update my Adobe Cash Player???
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
Howdy @invertedisdead
This project, and your take on it, is very interesting!
Thank you for giving us an upcoming plug in to be excited about!
Vape signatures have fascinated me ever since my vape concierge Jerry helped me understand that every one of my vapes have a use, and a different affect using the same product. Your concept here is taking that theory and proving it, in order to give the user options to customize for individual taste, draw resistance, and desired effects.
We also have a number of members here with allergies to certain vapes and the materials used. This concept could help them as well, being able to choose materials that work for their situation.
Bravo to you and your highdeas! Really looking forward to customizing my own, and maybe getting back into flower myself.
This project, and your take on it, is very interesting!
Thank you for giving us an upcoming plug in to be excited about!
Vape signatures have fascinated me ever since my vape concierge Jerry helped me understand that every one of my vapes have a use, and a different affect using the same product. Your concept here is taking that theory and proving it, in order to give the user options to customize for individual taste, draw resistance, and desired effects.
We also have a number of members here with allergies to certain vapes and the materials used. This concept could help them as well, being able to choose materials that work for their situation.
Bravo to you and your highdeas! Really looking forward to customizing my own, and maybe getting back into flower myself.
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GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
@invertedisdead some friend of mine said that your vape is like a combination of GS and FP. I guess these clouds don't lie about that? 
Thank you for stopping by and checking my vape out!
I've always been into plugins, so its really awesome to see people stoked about my desktop vaporizer.
I enjoyed reading your post; vape signatures have always been a mysterious and interesting component of vaporization, perhaps as a community we can crack some of these codes about why certain vapes work so well.
I hadn't really considered members unique sensitivities and being able to accompany those needs with this vaporizer, but that's an awesome perspective, and I really appreciate you mentioning that.
It definitely presents a platform where one could test their reactiveness to certain vaporizers/materials. I'm hoping to answer a few questions myself about that when I can get a few running side by side.
I greatly appreciate your interest, I hope to get some of the final touches wrapped up so people can start getting their hands on these.
@invertedisdead some friend of mine said that your vape is like a combination of GS and FP. I guess these clouds don't lie about that?
My original idea going back to 2017 was to take the purity of the GS and the form factor of the FP and somehow combine them. I peppered in a little sapphire seasoning from my desktop dab rig, and you have the InVerzion Vaporizer Im watching and waiting for great things here! Glass is Class!
Appreciate you checking this one out @LabPong - a vapor purist like yourself is exactly who I built this vaporizer for!
nonamekevin
Well-Known Member
Cool shot homie! It looks like the pearls are currently being held in the piece with a traditional metal screen?
Thanks for following along!
That's correct,
I think I wrote somewhere earlier in this thread about switching from the glass "turbine" to the SS screen. I could possibly explore the turbine screen again, but both designs had their own benefits and trade-offs. I really liked the pure glass design with the turbine for sure. However, with the SS screen below, it's more modular- for example I can use a larger pearl for the "oven door," like the ruby in the photo above.With the oven door I can also add a few extra layers of smaller pearls to fill the heater core. With the glass screen, I have to stop filling below the inlet to keep the pearls secure. I could put a screen or something in the inlet to allow those extra rows of pearls, but then there's still a screen in the path (albeit not really heated which is nice) Another benefit of the SS screen below is that it shaves off at least 5mm of "dead" space between the end of the heater core and the male joint. I say "dead" in that its past the hot zone, thus air won't get any hotter at that point.
I reached out to a few people a while back to get a little insight into how much people really cared about the metal screen; it's so standard that most people didn't really seem to care. There's less than .25g of metal in the air/vapor path in this current configuration. I still really love the idea of zero metal in the vapor path, but I might just save my true glass screen for InVerzion 2 which is another vape I designed a while ago. InV2 is simpler! ... but also more complex lol
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
What size is the air in-take hole?
How do you plan to prevent the coil cracking/breaking the glass when it's cooling down and contracting?
Any reason for the single ruby sphere other than aesthetics? Is it because of that valve effect it adds?
How do you plan to prevent the coil cracking/breaking the glass when it's cooling down and contracting?
Any reason for the single ruby sphere other than aesthetics? Is it because of that valve effect it adds?
4mm
It will be like a quartz banger with a barrel coil; as long as the coil is fitted properly it should be all good.
That's the oven door!
It keeps the muffins in the oven (for baking)
Maybe it does some other stuff too, but it's just theories
I'm curious to see what others think, I feel like the airflow is great. IMO this has a "healthy" draw restriction that allows it to work easily with different pieces of glass. It's not as open as say, a flowerpot, where you can clear your draw without taking the head off.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
4mm
It will be like a quartz banger with a barrel coil; as long as the coil is fitted properly it should be all good.
That's the oven door!
It keeps the muffins in the oven (for baking)
Maybe it does some other stuff too, but it's just theories
I'm curious to see what others think, I feel like the airflow is great. IMO this has a "healthy" draw restriction that allows it to work easily with different pieces of glass. It's not as open as say, a flowerpot, where you can clear your draw without taking the head off.
So you're going with quartz? Do you think its possible to use the 20mm coil with boro and not having it crack? I know you said the boro/quartz shouldn't effect the flavor too much, due to the spheres having the most impact, but I would like the boro. Id probably buy 1 quartz and 1 boro to compare.
You will be selling parts separately correct? I've got a lot of the items already to make this vape.
Also about the bowl, not much discussing about it. I re-read your post about wanting the custom glass bowl because of the untapped crumbs. Is the "flared lip" located where the screen goes?
If so, there are adapters (bowls) online that don't have that. Probably would be cheaper / faster than doing another custom part.
Also I noticed the very first post says your using a 25mm coil. Thats a typo correct? It uses 20mm barrel coils from any company. Just wanted to confirm.
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