Phase3 Vaporizers

[MileHighHuman]

This has my attention.


I vote for stainless steel screen rather than glass screen, the Glass Symphony bowl with glass screen was no good compared to the funnel bowl with SS screen.

So adding a long path of ruby spheres wouldn't improve the performance?

Also, it looks like the videos have ruby spheres, but the "gem vection" photo has clear glass looking like spheres?

As for ceramic heaters, I've had nothing but great experience with them. Both with the Herbalizer and Glass Symphony. I definitely think ceramic heaters provide better flavor than glass.

How do you plan to get the coil to fit more snug so we can get that temperature lowered down?

 

[invertedisdead]

So adding a long path of ruby spheres wouldn't improve the performance?

Also, it looks like the videos have ruby spheres, but the "gem vection" photo has clear glass looking like spheres?

As for ceramic heaters, I've had nothing but great experience with them. Both with the Herbalizer and Glass Symphony. I definitely think ceramic heaters provide better flavor than glass.

How do you plan to get the coil to fit more snug so we can get that temperature lowered down?

Adding more spheres to the joint doesn't work, they soak up all the hot air and cool it back down! I was bummed out that didn't work. I have another vape design kinda inspired by this concept that I want to try though.

The clear pearls are 4mm sapphires, I used 6mm rubies in an earlier version but they didn't fit together tight enough and caused a hot spot. I just need some more 4mm rubies to fill it then I currently have I'm hoping to offer a few different colors of Ruby/sapphire on the finished version so people can personalize this vape a little bit; I think that would be kinda cool!

Isn't the GS heater covered in glass? And isn't the Herbalizer halogen?
Sapphire is kind of like a very pure ceramic.

As far as coil fitment this prototype is 19mm OD, I'm gonna make the next one 20mm like my first prototype was. Unfortunately due to the nature of glass it may require some coil adjustment to achieve the ideal fit - I broke my first 20mm prototype from the coil contracting on the cool down. That was borosilicate though which expands more than quartz; final version will probably be Quartz. The 19mm prototype still works great, even with the coil barely making contact this vape is a beast! and I run it lower than I ran my Flowerpot, but I expect PID temps to drop at least a hundred degrees more on the finished version.

 

[MileHighHuman]

So you like the resistance / air flow with 4mm spheres?

The Glass Symphony uses 5mm spheres. I also tried the GS with some 3mm spheres added, but it added too much restriction. I might of tried some 6mm spheres too but I can't remember.

What all color spheres are possible?

Yeah you are correct the GS heater is surrounded by a glass tube. I got great flavor from my GS, much more similar to my Herbalizer, then EVO (all glass air path) which is why I made my comments. I could be wrong. Also yeah the Herbalizer is a halogen heat bulb, but I thought that was ceramic. Correct me if wrong

Keep us updated on your coil experiments. Also, so theres no way we could increase the size of the quartz piece (thats holding all of the spheres), add more spheres, and a bigger coil (30mm)? No?

Just trying to get the most extraction power as possible.

Also, have you done any experimenting with different size air in take holes?

Last, do you have an idea of when you would like to start getting this vape out to other users? And do you have an idea of what the price is going to be?

 

[invertedisdead]

So you like the resistance / air flow with 4mm spheres?

Yeah it seems to work well with a good variety of different glass pieces.

What all color spheres are possible?

Keep us updated on your coil experiments. Also, so theres no way we could increase the size of the quartz piece (thats holding all of the spheres), add more spheres, and a bigger coil (30mm)? No?

Just trying to get the most extraction power as possible.

I was thinking it would be cool to have blue, green, pink, red, and clear. Maybe even orange if I can get those.

It wouldn't really do much to increase the diameter of the heater because the 19mm male joint is only 12mm at its smallest point, so a 30mm heater would just take up more space and probably perform worse as there's a lot of conduction going on to heat the pearls, so increasing the radius will probably reduce the functionality. I wanted this vape to be very compact for a glass design: the heater is just over 2 inches long and almost an inch of that is the male joint. I could make the heater longer and use a longer custom coil but I'm not sure it would add anything, this vape is already very powerful and the heater doesn't get bogged down even in multi person sessions. None of these videos have any enhanced lighting to really show off the vapor, in direct light the clouds are huge! I'll try and get a video with better lighting.

Also, have you done any experimenting with different size air in take holes?

Last, do you have an idea of when you would like to start getting this vape out to other users? And do you have an idea of what the price is going to be?

I haven't really experimented with different air intake sizes, but the idea was always that the air inlet would kind of act like a carb cap and help to increase pressure throughout the system. A lot of the design stems from my concentrate setup. Originally the air inlet was also how the pearls were loaded into the heater since the first design used glass spikes (I called it "the turbine") as a screen to retain the sapphire beads. So I couldn't really mess with the intake size much for that reason; but the current version uses a SS screen instead of the glass turbine, so I could experiment with it a bit.

I'd like to get it out soon for sure, it's pretty much complete, other than the few things I mentioned in yesterday's post that I want to resolve. Depending on whether people are working or not through this virus will have an impact on its release at this point. As far as price, I still need to see what the Quartz version will cost to build as I know it costs more than boro. The heater and bowl will be made in America by hand, so prices will reflect that, but it should be quite competitively priced in my opinion.

 

[lazylathe]

Herbie was a halogen heater in a ceramic chamber!
Technically. both of you are correct!! LOL!

And GS has a glass cover over the heater and glass balls.
The glass screen bowl was also a no go with me, maybe a glass mesh or frit that would also vape concentrates?
So many ideas!!

@invertedisdead
Love the name by the way!!

 

[Stu]

the idea was always that the air inlet would kind of act like a carb cap and help to increase pressure throughout the system.

I think you meant decrease the pressure, right?

 

[invertedisdead]

I think you meant decrease the pressure, right?

Whoops yeah that's correct, decrease the pressure! Good catch, I think too much Girl Scout Cookies is increasing my vapor pressure



@lazylathe Jojo mentioned that he tried a fritted disk as a screen and it was too restrictive, @Stu also had a thread about experimenting with a fritted disk. My glass screen design is different from those, but still conceptual at this point, though I know it is manufacturable.

I had an idea of using an extra coarse fritted disk as a post-vapor filter the way some use hemp fiber or cotton, but I haven't tried that.

 

[Stu]

@Stu also had a thread about experimenting with a fritted disk.

God, that was a long time ago so you have a good fuckin' memory. But I wouldn't call it "experimenting" so much as just trying to turn some lab glass into a bong. It was just another highdea that ended poorly.

A frit as a screen is an interesting idea, though.

 

[MileHighHuman]

im not sure how the fritted disc would work in this vape, but ill say the fritted disc in my Dave Goldstien 16" tube has major drag. It was awful. The DG fritted disc dab rig wasn't as bad, but it still had some drag and was a very hard piece to get fully clean due to the fritted disc perc

 

[YaMon]

Part of how I shrunk my design is by using Ruby/sapphire beads instead of glass - lab grown sapphire is pure al203 crystalline aluminum oxide (same chemical composition as alumina ceramic) which features extreme chemical stability and zero porosity, while being more thermally conductive than titanium or stainless steel!

Where do you order these from? Thinking I’d like to try theses in my DaBuddha rather than glass beads which may bind to the ceramic post

 

[nonamekevin]

Where do you order these from? Thinking I’d like to try theses in my DaBuddha rather than glass beads which may bind to the ceramic post

@ohmygodimsohigh has said that his ssv43 has not experienced any of the glass beads sticking to the ceramic heater. Check out the SSV thread homie for his take on it.

 

[invertedisdead]

God, that was a long time ago so you have a good fuckin' memory. But I wouldn't call it "experimenting" so much as just trying to turn some lab glass into a bong. It was just another highdea that ended poorly.

A frit as a screen is an interesting idea, though.

Hey now, a highdea tried is a highdea learned!

One thing about frit as a screen is I think it needs to be wafered like a semiconductor or something to make it easier to clean, that way crumbs don't get so embedded in the nooks and crannies of the disk and clog the pores.

im not sure how the fritted disc would work in this vape, but ill say the fritted disc in my Dave Goldstien 16" tube has major drag. It was awful. The DG fritted disc dab rig wasn't as bad, but it still had some drag and was a very hard piece to get fully clean due to the fritted disc perc

I remember when the Rooster Apparatus came out, that was like the height of the scientific glass scene IMHO! There are a couple different porosities available for scientific fritted disks, possibly the extra coarse version wouldn't be so bad but I'd have to try it.

I had an idea to use a fritted disk to make an all glass Vapor Genie style vape, but they don't recommend direct torching frit so I had to abandon that one.

Where do you order these from? Thinking I’d like to try theses in my DaBuddha rather than glass beads which may bind to the ceramic post

I got a few from 710coils, 710gems, Constant Gems, and then I got some directly from Alibaba. It might be better to use quartz beads in your scenario since quartz can be directly torched, they would definitely handle the ceramic heater. The sapphire would probably be fine too, though they can crack from sudden changes in temperature.

 

[EmDeemo]

Hey now, a highdea tried is a highdea learned!

One thing about frit as a screen is I think it needs to be wafered like a semiconductor or something to make it easier to clean, that way crumbs don't get so embedded in the nooks and crannies of the disk and clog the pores.



I remember when the Rooster Apparatus came out, that was like the height of the scientific glass scene IMHO! There are a couple different porosities available for scientific fritted disks, possibly the extra coarse version wouldn't be so bad but I'd have to try it.

I had an idea to use a fritted disk to make an all glass Vapor Genie style vape, but they don't recommend direct torching frit so I had to abandon that one.



I got a few from 710coils, 710gems, Constant Gems, and then I got some directly from Alibaba. It might be better to use quartz beads in your scenario since quartz can be directly torched, they would definitely handle the ceramic heater. The sapphire would probably be fine too, though they can crack from sudden changes in temperature.

Just a heads up, and this is obviously only my experience and they coulda been shit beads but I had bad experience torching quartz beads, they didnt like it one bit Cracked very, very quickly.

 

[invertedisdead]

Just a heads up, and this is obviously only my experience and they coulda been shit beads but I had bad experience torching quartz beads, they didnt like it one bit Cracked very, very quickly.

Possibly they were glass? as far as I understand, genuine Quartz can be torched til it's glowing, then submerged in water without cracking due to the very low coefficient of expansion. People who do uptemp dabs with Quartz inserts often clean the insert by pulling the dish out with tweezers and dropping it directly into isopropyl alcohol.

 

[GoldenBud]

the very low coefficient of expansion

Intersting. Becasue of the high amount of oxygen in SiO4 vs SiO2 for an example? quartz vs boro?

 

[EmDeemo]

Possibly they were glass? as far as I understand, genuine Quartz can be torched til it's glowing, then submerged in water without cracking due to the very low coefficient of expansion. People who do uptemp dabs with Quartz inserts often clean the insert by pulling the dish out with tweezers and dropping it directly into isopropyl alcohol.

Thats what I thought, hence torching the little fuckers. They were bought as quartz, but I could very easily have been miss sold glass. Shit happens init.

 

[invertedisdead]

Intersting. Becasue of the high amount of oxygen in SiO4 vs SiO2 for an example? quartz vs boro?

Check out this article by mega OG Task Rok of Highly Educated
https://highlyeducatedti.com/blogs/information/thermal-shock-vs-tensile-strength

We used to use boro nails for dabbing back in the day, they eventually switched to quartz for durability, of course people used to dab at WAY hotter temperatures back then too, which is probably why the boro nails often failed. That was before the carb cap - Task Rok of Highly Educated actually invented the carb cap.

 

[GoldenBud]

Check out this article by mega OG Task Rok of Highly Educated
https://highlyeducatedti.com/blogs/information/thermal-shock-vs-tensile-strength

Good to know. Few facts like "Quartz has a much higher melting onset than borosilicate" and "Thermal shock occurs when a thermal gradient causes different parts of an object to expand by different amounts" I wasn't aware of! But they didn't explain why "Quartz has a much higher melting onset than borosilicate", what is the reason by chemistry, i think it because of the oxygen content. it'll be more "inert" to torching. but not sure.

 

[invertedisdead]

Good to know. Few facts like "Quartz has a much higher melting onset than borosilicate" and "Thermal shock occurs when a thermal gradient causes different parts of an object to expand by different amounts" I wasn't aware of! But they didn't explain why "Quartz has a much higher melting onset than borosilicate", what is the reason by chemistry, i think it because of the oxygen content. it'll be more "inert" to torching. but not sure.

I believe it's because Quartz is nearly pure silica.

 

[invertedisdead]

This is with two scoops of ground green, probably ~100mg. 650F on the PID which is pretty moderate, even at 800F it hasn't combusted. This is still with the loose coil fitment on my 19mm prototype; I'm still expecting these numbers to drop a hundred degrees with the final 20mm version.

Fine herbs taste just like they smell with this vape, the flavor is very true

Happy Friday FC, stay vaped out there!

 

[MileHighHuman]

This is with two scoops of ground green, probably ~100mg. 650F on the PID which is pretty moderate, even at 800F it hasn't combusted. This is still with the loose coil fitment on my 19mm prototype; I'm still expecting these numbers to drop a hundred degrees with the final 20mm version.

Fine herbs taste just like they smell with this vape, the flavor is very true

Happy Friday FC, stay vaped out there!

Can I claim dibs on getting one of the first for sale?

 

[Ramahs]

I'm interested!

 

[invertedisdead]

Can I claim dibs on getting one of the first for sale?

My dude!

I'm interested!

Cheers bro, I appreciate you stopping by the vape lab and checking this one out!

If anyone has any questions, comments, concerns, etc. feel free to post them up! I'll do my best to address everything that I can

 

[MileHighHuman]

I also would like to try ceramic spheres like Lazy. I checked Swiss jewel, but they don't have 4mm. Does anyone know where else to get them?

Also, I know you said the ruby / sapphire spheres have great thermal properties so you don't have to use as many as glass. How does ceramic compare to sapphire? I found this comparison, but have no clue how to read the results: http://www.trdspecialties.com/ceramic-balls.asp

 

[invertedisdead]

Also, I know you said the ruby / sapphire spheres have great thermal properties so you don't have to use as many as glass. How does ceramic compare to sapphire? I found this comparison, but have no clue how to read the results: http://www.trdspecialties.com/ceramic-balls.asp

Good question!

It really just depends on the type of ceramic - Alumina ceramic, aka aluminum oxide is the same chemical composition as sapphire, (Al2O3) but in a less pure form.

There are other technical ceramics such as zirconia, silicon carbide, aluminum nitride, etc. all with varying thermal properties.

I guess I'll spill the beans here - part of the idea behind this vaporizer was to design a R&D platform where all the different heater materials could be directly compared, without introducing a bunch of other variables like you'd get when normally comparing vaporizers side by side. We've all built up opinions about convection heaters, but with this vape you will be able to directly compare the difference between ceramic and metal heaters in the same exact vaporizer; that's something I really wanted to find out.

Many of you know I am a little biased towards glass, so I felt this was a great opportunity to really put that bias to the test, to see just how each material truly affects the vapor - the flavor, the effects, the clouds, all of it. Because InVerzion vaporizer is heated externally, the modular convection core can be changed at any time - theoretically being able to manipulate the "vape signature." I started with sapphire because that's what I like to dab on, and know it offers a good balance of thermal properties and clean flavor; but I knew I wanted to build a modular platform since everybody has their own preferences!