Phase3 Vaporizers

[Vaporware]

@Haze Mister ’s clip idea is another good option. A metal clip that went around the connection of the top and bottom pieces and the coil could also hold it together and onto the coil with 1 part. A groove or two in the quartz could help too.

A little fancier cover or cage around part of the sides would also work and look nicer. It would probably be one or more custom metal parts though...

 

[invertedisdead]

It's incredible how a bunch of random parts from vapes I don't even use can be so inspiring!

Had an idea for my SCVW, based on things I've been thinking about for my desktop; rummaged through the graveyard for a suitable proof of concept, found something close enough, blasted it with a torch, and we have liftoff!

Wide open airflow, all glass path, no moving parts type of liftoff.

Back to the vape lab!

Disclaimer: all references to "the vape lab," "vaping," "and "I" are purely fictional, and are in no way based on real life events. Please consult with your doctor before vaping, to find out if vaping is right for you. Side effects of vaping include vaping more.

 

[Alexis]

It's incredible how a bunch of random parts from vapes I don't even use can be so inspiring!

Had an idea for my SCVW, based on things I've been thinking about for my desktop; rummaged through the graveyard for a suitable proof of concept, found something close enough, blasted it with a torch, and we have liftoff!

Wide open airflow, all glass path, no moving parts type of liftoff.

Back to the vape lab!

Disclaimer: all references to "the vape lab," "vaping," "and "I" are purely fictional, and are in no way based on real life events. Please consult with your doctor before vaping, to find out if vaping is right for you. Side effects of vaping include vaping more.

I was thinking, just chucking this nonsense in quickly as Immso mellowed from a lovely Bluedream vape and lovely kava session today, lots edibles etc....

But like how I bore y’all sick lol...Verdamper Verdamper...Ver...

But the trick to the joint, my hippie mum always emphasised, was the surface area.

So she adamantly insisted the longer joint would get you more stoned, same weed, due to greater surface area.

In my growing up observations and interrogation of hippies, it seemed to be well substantiated.

Now, ahem,,back to the beasty Verdamper. I’ve always regarded its efficacy to be related to the actual downpipe and big chamber vortex design.

Indeed, the surface volume of Verdamper exhales has huge surface area and reach.

But you got me thinking too, the magic must lie in the surface area of the sizeable (I always called it a Radiator lol) Heater, MUST be where most of the magic lies.

Bigger heater. So so much power, heat on standby, huge surface area and heating the air in the long casing too, equals something fantastic.

The Supreme is limited, not In terms of hit size but in terms of overall potential for powerful consistent delivery without effort. But a slightly similar principle though where I believe the total Surface area was deemed to be the essential factor of the design.

now @invertedisdead thank you for letting me post in your thread, and do excuse/ignore me If I’m just talking a load of waffle here.

I’m just thinking, somehow, larger heaters with openest airflow and max surface area could be a requirement to achieve true vape magic? Am I just Nuts!

Rhetorical. I am lol!

 

[Shadooz]

But the trick to the joint, my hippie mum always emphasised, was the surface area.

Not the joint, the heater... the joint just must give a perfect seal, nothing more, notthing less.
But less surface from the joint, smoother it will feel to use.

And here, the surface for heat transfer is promote by the balls.
What ur mom forget too, is that heat transfer is over surface and time.
The ball reducing the airflow increase that time. And so thermal exchange, reason why he may not have to use a hell temp (like 666° of a flowerpot.. which get too open airflow for its transfer surface)

the surface volume

Surface or/and volume, m2 or m3. Don't mix the two

The volume just give inertia, and so stabilisation. But u just need enough for one draw (of full extraction)

MUST be where most of the magic lies.

That's no magic, simple thermodynamic...

 

[invertedisdead]

I was thinking, just chucking this nonsense in quickly as Immso mellowed from a lovely Bluedream vape and lovely kava session today, lots edibles etc....

But like how I bore y’all sick lol...Verdamper Verdamper...Ver...

But the trick to the joint, my hippie mum always emphasised, was the surface area.

So she adamantly insisted the longer joint would get you more stoned, same weed, due to greater surface area.

In my growing up observations and interrogation of hippies, it seemed to be well substantiated.

Now, ahem,,back to the beasty Verdamper. I’ve always regarded its efficacy to be related to the actual downpipe and big chamber vortex design.

Indeed, the surface volume of Verdamper exhales has huge surface area and reach.

But you got me thinking too, the magic must lie in the surface area of the sizeable (I always called it a Radiator lol) Heater, MUST be where most of the magic lies.

Bigger heater. So so much power, heat on standby, huge surface area and heating the air in the long casing too, equals something fantastic.

The Supreme is limited, not In terms of hit size but in terms of overall potential for powerful consistent delivery without effort. But a slightly similar principle though where I believe the total Surface area was deemed to be the essential factor of the design.

now @invertedisdead thank you for letting me post in your thread, and do excuse/ignore me If I’m just talking a load of waffle here.

I’m just thinking, somehow, larger heaters with openest airflow and max surface area could be a requirement to achieve true vape magic? Am I just Nuts!

Rhetorical. I am lol!

So the main appeal of a high surface area heater is to achieve more contact with incoming air, producing a more consistent thermal gradient. As you improve the efficiency of the heater you can start downsizing the components.

The Verdamper is a very clever design, a year ago I wouldn't be able to say why, but as my knowledge grows, I can see two key components to that design that are quite smart.

The question we must ask is at what point do we approach diminishing returns? Many consider the GH to be as powerful, or more than most desktops. That vape has a lot of surface area in a small footprint, due to technology that hasn't seen that much use in this industry yet.

More is better, but only to a point. One of the main goals of this vape was to squeeze the power of the GS into a pint sized package. Heat transfer, in some ways, is very philosophical. For example, IMO, right now there is a huge overemphasis on "thermal mass" amongst the community that reminds me of the old log Purple Days logvapes. Thermal mass is extremely important, particularly in designs which need to vaporize after heat input is removed. But I'm not sure how it has become the focal point for devices which are being continuously electrically heated.

And here, the surface for heat transfer is promote by the balls.
What ur mom forget too, is that heat transfer is over surface and time.
The ball reducing the airflow increase that time. And so thermal exchange, reason why he may not have to use a hell temp (like 666° of a flowerpot.. which get too open airflow for its transfer surface)

this is correct, the spheres increase the residence time that the air spends in contact with the heated surface. A lot of emphasis has been on the turbulent mixing function of spheres, but these other functions have a pronounced effect too.

 

[Shadooz]

right now there is a huge overemphasis on "thermal mass" amongst the community

Right now cause all the PID are still too under-reacting for light-mass stabilisation

entropie ted - Google Search

 

[invertedisdead]

Right now cause all the PID are still too under-reacting for light-mass stabilisation

I could go with that, but I would suspect it's largely due, at least in part to implementing high mass, leading to slow reaction. That's often what will make a PID overshoot, as the heating element stabilizes with the component being heated. A good example is the volcano, they improved the heaters responsiveness by reducing a lot of mass. I guess the issue is as you do such, better temperature control becomes more important. The Volcano Classic had more mass, so they could just use a bimetallic thermostat.

One flaw with my desktop being externally heated, is since the thermocouple is located on the coil, and the housing itself is insulative, it's not as fast to record a temperature change either. However, since the sapphire rounds have relatively high thermal conductivity and heat capacity, I'm able to seemingly compensate for most system lag, and still up to temp from cold in around 5 minutes or so. The idea with this vape is the sapphires themselves help heat the Quartz evenly, (think of a bead bath in a chemistry lab)

 

[arb]

Too small a mass cannot keep up with a long draw see the e43.
Needs time to recover negating the advantage its size gives it by making it a burn hazard?
Not cracking on those units just a point of reference.
All apples and oranges if qualify is all great so..........do it!

 

[Shadooz]

@invertedisdead it was to compare with the small log or boxmod heater, which have lower heat capacity and so extraction by heat (or u will have to overheat)

 

[invertedisdead]

Too small a mass cannot keep up with a long draw see the e43.
Needs time to recover negating the advantage its size gives it by making it a burn hazard?
Not cracking on those units just a point of reference.
All apples and oranges if qualify is all great so..........do it!

My goal is just to point out some of the benefits possible with a more responsive heater design, as I feel it will be an important feature for the next generation of desktops. More mass would help with temperature stability on longer draws, but so would a more responsive heater. But I agree that input and output is very important to make sure you’re not burning fuel faster than you can inject it, so to speak in motor lingo. The inherent problem with a device which needs recovery time is that adding more mass can further slow the recovery. I’m just generalizing here though as there is certainly more than one way to skin the cat, and it truly does depend on the goals and nature of the design. But my perspective is that with the rise of on demand portables, eventually people will start questioning that if desktops have so much more power, why does it take so much longer to heatup. Heatup time is pretty much a non-issue for all day enthusiasts like us, but it’s a big deal for more casual consumers.

@invertedisdead it was to compare with the small log or boxmod heater, which have lower heat capacity and so extraction by heat (or u will have to overheat)

On a box mod style portable I wouldn’t want to compensate by adding more mass, as that would result in more system lag and draw more precious battery power; instead I would ideally try to optimize existing components, or redesign, for higher efficiency. My goal with stirring the pot on thethermal mass talk is only to suggest that while mass is certainly important, it’s really just one facet of the equation.

 

[arb]

My goal is just to point out some of the benefits possible with a more responsive heater design, as I feel it will be an important feature for the next generation of desktops. More mass would help with temperature stability on longer draws, but so would a more responsive heater. But I agree that input and output is very important to make sure you’re not burning fuel faster than you can inject it, so to speak in motor lingo. The inherent problem with a device which needs recovery time is that adding more mass can further slow the recovery. I’m just generalizing here though as there is certainly more than one way to skin the cat, and it truly does depend on the goals and nature of the design. But my perspective is that with the rise of on demand portables, eventually people will start questioning that if desktops have so much more power, why does it take so much longer to heatup. Heatup time is pretty much a non-issue for all day enthusiasts like us, but it’s a big deal for more casual consumers.


On a box mod style portable I wouldn’t want to compensate by adding more mass, as that would result in more system lag and draw more precious battery power; instead I would ideally try to optimize existing components, or redesign, for higher efficiency. My goal with stirring the pot on thethermal mass talk is only to suggest that while mass is certainly important, it’s really just one facet of the equation.

Have some 20 gauge kanthal coming in today to add some mass for the stempods.

 

[Alexis]

Not the joint, the heater... the joint just must give a perfect seal, nothing more, notthing less.

Haha, as not for the frist time, respectably, with your self and I, a language term translating error, or rather, plain misunderstanding.

By “joint” I was referring to college cannabis joints with or without tobacco, not vapor.

This came from the hippie joint smoking decades. My mum always emphasised the longer spliff, would always get her noticeably. More stoned.

so that’s cleared up now.

And absolutely @invertedisdead, I get and fully appreciate what precisely you are trying to accomplish wrt to your comments above, and I can only applaud you and wish you the best.

You know very well about this but always more learning, fresh inspiration and insight is always at hand though. One demeaned end is often the invisible ground work for finally cracking it, whether you can really pull off this goal, performance wise.

I jst felt it was worth a muse at what makes the Verdamper so magical

That's no magic, simple thermodynami

On that, I disagree, I like to call it magic, it’s a flexible almost slangy term and very applicable IMO.

It’s that huge, well spread, coiled radiator grill. And the total openness of the air inlet, plus the clever way the narrow downpipe and big, sectioned bong design that makes the extra surface area, and undying heater power through and between draws.

Keep at at, whatever you conjure, it will be a novel and well sought and cherished vape.

And I appreciate your goal of downsizing the unwieldly GS heater (which was much bigger than the actual heating element, though obviously it was all about the balls.

In a way, the GS was. Ore unwieldly to the Verdamper, which looks a lot more so than it is, but is still so tidy, neat and convenient.

If you can do it, great. I just wonder if we want the truly best vales with our current ideas and options, those big, mass thermal mass, plus wide openness and free airflow over the huge spread out heating area surface that may be the way to go still.

I hope you get to try it one day @invertedisdead just to see if any New perspective or insight can be garnered from the experience, unseen from a distance, to make more precise observations that could bring some Noel perspective on your pioneering. Though I’m sure if it’s achievable you will surely figure it out in time regardless.

 

[Haze Mister]

I went back to my DIY quartz heater for another test and it does seem to have a little extra goodness over glass... a smoother vape with purer , fuller flavour and no burn.... seems more forgiving of overheating or underheating...

worth pursuing the quartz avenue for sure....

 

[invertedisdead]

So a day ago I was wanting to switch things up from my desktop,and was torching my SCVW filled with quartz beads. I was one second away from my target time on my timer and it randomly popped, sending hot beads everywhere. Luckily I was sitting by myself on the dogs bed when it happened, so it kept most of the beads contained there. Surprisingly it wasn’t a screen that came out, but the quartz housing for my SCVW prototype actually failed and broke. Really strange as I’ve used it hundreds of times testing it over the last year or so.

Even though it was very unexpected, I honestly wasn’t super surprised. I’ve been considering ways to move on from the ball vape concept for quite a while for a few different reasons, and this is one of the reasons why I’ve been a little apprehensive to market it. And don’t get me wrong, it hasn’t “scared me away” from ball vapes, I left my InV1 desktop on all last night and never thought twice about it. But there is a small risk factor with hot bead designs.

Suffice to say I have been working on a new iteration based on the last few improvements I had in mind, utilizing similar heat transfer concepts as a ball vape, without the moving parts.

With the impending ban and uncharted waters ahead, I feel it is important to get back to a more open source focused design to minimize exposure; which the InV1 in some ways has gotten away from as it’s progressed over the past year. It’s also important that I simplify my work load for more efficient operations InV1 was positioned, when optimized, to have at least three custom parts. While I’m sure it would make for a truly great device, those extra expenditures really only make it harder to launch a product.

So I will continue working on a revised heater head, of which I have a few ideas in mind, pending it can be built without great complexity. It’s worth noting that these ball vapes, while certainly effective, aren’t the only way to skin the cat. As a sanity test, I hooked up an empty InV1 with no beads to my MaxVapor controller, and while it took a higher set temperature to achieve results, even my empty housing is capable of convection vaporization. When you remove the beads, the heat transfer is heavily based on radiation, whereas with the beads installed there is more conduction contact involved in heating the air.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@invertedisdead I have tried filling Gnomes with quartz sterilization beads which are like 3mm and have experienced similar results a couple of times. I am 3000% sure it happens due to thermal expansion and unlucky position in which beads gets stuck and pop the outer shell. (hope i am making sense). Torching the beads doesnt break them nor torching the cover alone ,so 2+2=4 this time at least . I have thought about making a quartz gn0me but it is simply not worth it cause main breakage at least for me is from dropping shit,if i dont go wild with the torch into beyond combustion temps..., 1 quartz = 5-6 boro gn0mes . Another possible reason is failure during annealing process,stress was there just waiting for its moment to pop up.
Btw i have also V2 of my all glass logvapes,which doesnt have any balls ,but just a long maze inside .It is up there power wise with the ball concept .(Think Supreme meets Vapolution). It is funny because you can actually transform the very same vape into two versions just by add/removing a few parts),so it is really a 2 in 1 design .

 

[Hippie Dickie]

more responsive heater design

i agree with your analysis vis a vis thermal mass being slow to respond. i think the problem with desktops is not enough current - i like having minimum 3 amps - then the heater doesn't sag with a draw. my nichrome80 heater is 0.3 ohms, so at 6v is drawing 20 amps, but at about 30% duty cycle.

as an alternative to balls, have you considered a bundle of capillary tubes? a closed end tube would allow a k-type thermocouple (i like the 0.010" size - fast response) dead center of the heater and still be out of the airflow.

 

[DRCousCous]

have you considered a bundle of capillary tubes? a closed end tube would allow a k-type thermocouple (i like the 0.010" size - fast response) dead center of the heater and still be out of the airflow.

This to me seems like the future. Not the heater design, but the isolated thermocouple. I really do want the accuracy and repeatability that a reliable (or at least known) thermocouple brings to the table. I want data to see how much dropped, etc.

Also, on the current and resistance front, I suspect you're absolutely right. I've been playing with a Divine Tribe atomizer of late, and it produces an amazing amount of (well-directed) power to the bucket... and why? Because it's capable of pulling 20 amps from a high drain battery in a 510 mod. I don't ever have to push it that much, but I think you're right in that too many manufacturers go with amperage constraints right off the bat.

Anyhow, I'm a scientist and medical patient, not an engineer. So I don't actually have any idea what I'm actually talking about, except it does seem to match my experience and limited knowledge on the subject.

from @invertedisdead:

I feel it is important to get back to a more open source focused design to minimize exposure

Again, I'm a scientist not an engineer, but I have moved towards open science, open plans, and open programming in my own work (before I retired). Tools, data, and even analysis should be free an open source whenever possible. I know you need to make a living, but I love the idea of open-sourcing heater designs so that people can build at home.

I fear that we are moving towards a time (in the US at least) of greater regulation when it comes to cannabis: I suspect the feds will "legalize" it while handing it to the FDA and large pharm companies (or at least major ag producers like Cargill and etc.) for production. Because of all that, I feel like the more good information we put out there for others to play and modify and make with at home the better off we'll all be. Plus, I'm a dirty socialist scientist and think most (all) information should be free

 

[Shadooz]

i agree with your analysis vis a vis thermal mass being slow to respond. i think the problem with desktops is not enough current - i like having minimum 3 amps - then the heater doesn't sag with a draw. my nichrome80 heater is 0.3 ohms, so at 6v is drawing 20 amps, but at about 30% duty cycle.

as an alternative to balls, have you considered a bundle of capillary tubes? a closed end tube would allow a k-type thermocouple (i like the 0.010" size - fast response) dead center of the heater and still be out of the airflow.

Here the glass can't be reactive anyway, and a thermocouple in a closed tube will just be retarded, and will just show his only tube, won't affected (or lighlty) with airflow.

One way to have a fast response would be a manual over-power, manually pushed when u draw, and calibrated for the heater mass and average loss with draw.
And that calibration can be done with thermocouple.

But as said, with glass it's useless.
Only good For the next generation of box mod ( with heavier coil ).

 

[arb]

The 20 gauge coils on a 25mm wrap with 11 wraps take about 15 seconds or so to hit temp but once there they really do a nice job of delivering steady heat.
Running at 51 watts with a stempod.

 

[Shadooz]

The 20 gauge coils on a 25mm wrap with 11 wraps take about 15 seconds or so to hit temp but once there they really do a nice job of delivering steady heat.
Running at 51 watts with a stempod.

Inertia, easier to stabilise an heavier coil.

And add an extreme surface of transfer, spreaded along the mod.
Cause when i say heavy coil, it's the global mass, cause they must stay the thinnest. And they can be thinner as the coil temp will be set lower.
Something like many ss screen (but not ss with battery..) just stacked

 

[invertedisdead]

@invertedisdead I have tried filling Gnomes with quartz sterilization beads which are like 3mm and have experienced similar results a couple of times. I am 3000% sure it happens due to thermal expansion and unlucky position in which beads gets stuck and pop the outer shell. (hope i am making sense). Torching the beads doesnt break them nor torching the cover alone ,so 2+2=4 this time at least . I have thought about making a quartz gn0me but it is simply not worth it cause main breakage at least for me is from dropping shit,if i dont go wild with the torch into beyond combustion temps..., 1 quartz = 5-6 boro gn0mes . Another possible reason is failure during annealing process,stress was there just waiting for its moment to pop up.
Btw i have also V2 of my all glass logvapes,which doesnt have any balls ,but just a long maze inside .It is up there power wise with the ball concept .(Think Supreme meets Vapolution). It is funny because you can actually transform the very same vape into two versions just by add/removing a few parts),so it is really a 2 in 1 design .

Interesting that you have observed similar! It's weird though because quartz has one of the lowest coefficients of thermal expansion, that's what makes it more durable for thermal cycling over borosilicate. Sapphire has a greater CTE, I did wonder if using sapphire inside could have stressed the quartz housing, but hard to say for sure. As you note it could have been a manufacturing flaw as well. I loaded up another SCVW with rubies yesterday and it worked fine. On the one that broke, I did just change the screen to a new one right before use, I wonder if I just compressed the beads too much, I wouldn't think so but maybe it is possible!

Great to hear you have some progress on your glass logs, when can we order one of those bad boys I bet most people reading this thread are tired of waiting for mine

i agree with your analysis vis a vis thermal mass being slow to respond. i think the problem with desktops is not enough current - i like having minimum 3 amps - then the heater doesn't sag with a draw. my nichrome80 heater is 0.3 ohms, so at 6v is drawing 20 amps, but at about 30% duty cycle.

as an alternative to balls, have you considered a bundle of capillary tubes? a closed end tube would allow a k-type thermocouple (i like the 0.010" size - fast response) dead center of the heater and still be out of the airflow.

Wouldn't it be preferable to put the thermocouple directly in the airstream though to truly pull an accurate reading? I would expect a closed end tube would store heat and change the reading. Isn't this the issue, the balance between superior thermodynamics versus purity which creates contradictive design choices? For example, a glass convection heater is kind of obscure to begin with, an average engineer would ask why I don't just use aluminum.

One thing I'd like to see is better utilization of the thermocouple already in the XLR coil. I feel like a low mass, high conductivity evaporator design could better accomplish this by achieving quicker reaction time and reduce much of the system lag involved when heating insulative materials. I've considered technical ceramics to achieve this, though dissimilar Mohs is an issue . One of the big benefits I felt to my sapphire addition to the ball concept was it allowed one to easily use this dissimilar material in a non abrasive way. Harder to make a full sapphire heater interface with a glass bowl.

I did consider a tube stack type design, I posted a rendering of it on one of these pages. That was actually my first desktop design which was really just based on when I was trying to get Ed @ Newvape to build a glass or ceramic flowerpot. But since the Deskpod is pretty much using this design I am looking to go in a different direction.

One concept I'm toying with right now is a modified quartz joint using four spaced out vortex diffuser discs. This is based on a convection oven, the idea is the spaced out discs create three small ovens that the air is spun through for heating. I was thinking of moving to something like this anyways for the top and bottom air inlet/exit, then I figured I could remove the beads and put a few more diffuser discs in and it would probably work well too. The goal being to get a nice homogenous air temperature at the bowl, and good diffusion across it, instead of such a "top down" heat. This one might be too complicated to build though. Even with a single thicker torched disc I was able to produce nice clean vapor, so I believe some modifications could produce a nice desktop heater.

One way to have a fast response would be a manual over-power, manually pushed when u draw, and calibrated for the heater mass and average loss with draw.

If I'm understanding correctly, I think what you describe is sort of how the Flowerpot functions.

Only good For the next generation of box mod ( with heavier coil ).

You could use a heating coil wrapped around some other high surface area, conductive heat exchanging medium. I think that's how the Tafee Bowle heater works but not sure on that one.

This to me seems like the future. Not the heater design, but the isolated thermocouple. I really do want the accuracy and repeatability that a reliable (or at least known) thermocouple brings to the table. I want data to see how much dropped, etc.

Also, on the current and resistance front, I suspect you're absolutely right. I've been playing with a Divine Tribe atomizer of late, and it produces an amazing amount of (well-directed) power to the bucket... and why? Because it's capable of pulling 20 amps from a high drain battery in a 510 mod. I don't ever have to push it that much, but I think you're right in that too many manufacturers go with amperage constraints right off the bat.

Anyhow, I'm a scientist and medical patient, not an engineer. So I don't actually have any idea what I'm actually talking about, except it does seem to match my experience and limited knowledge on the subject.

from @invertedisdead:


Again, I'm a scientist not an engineer, but I have moved towards open science, open plans, and open programming in my own work (before I retired). Tools, data, and even analysis should be free an open source whenever possible. I know you need to make a living, but I love the idea of open-sourcing heater designs so that people can build at home.

I fear that we are moving towards a time (in the US at least) of greater regulation when it comes to cannabis: I suspect the feds will "legalize" it while handing it to the FDA and large pharm companies (or at least major ag producers like Cargill and etc.) for production. Because of all that, I feel like the more good information we put out there for others to play and modify and make with at home the better off we'll all be. Plus, I'm a dirty socialist scientist and think most (all) information should be free

I agree that increased regulation is right around the corner, and it will be positioned as finally being less restricted too, probably if they ever pull from schedule 1 they will lock down the supply chain just as they are doing right now with vape mail.

My idea is to produce a single heater component so that the rest of the parts can be easily open sourced - as they all belong to other industries there is nothing really exclusive besides the heater head. As the goal posts shift, the needs of this part could change too. If regulations get worse, (and I've no reason to see why they won't) selling anything made of glass might be rough, and I might very well need to change materials to something more durable, as replacement parts might be too unpredictable. Everything else is open source, so replacements aren't a big deal.
If we have to resort to plan Z it might be a ceramic head, with a modified thru hole design, that works with off the shelf glass adapters. And trufully, the thru-hole heater design goes back way further than the FP, really the Volcano is the first one that comes to mind to use such a design, then the HerbalAire with its 18 jets.

The 20 gauge coils on a 25mm wrap with 11 wraps take about 15 seconds or so to hit temp but once there they really do a nice job of delivering steady heat.
Running at 51 watts with a stempod.

Do you have it on autofire, or cruise, or are you doing a pre-fire first to store it with heat?

 

[Shadooz]

If I'm understanding correctly, I think what you describe is sort of how the Flowerpot functions.

Flowerpot is just a PID ? so automatic kind, not manual.
Never used a PID, so i won't know how effective they can stabilize a temperature, as their feedback datas come from the coil proprieties...

But manual can give the fastest response if u don't want a computer size PID, so for box mod...

 

[invertedisdead]

Flowerpot is just a PID ? so automatic kind, not manual.
Never used a PID, so i won't know how effective they can stabilize a temperature, as their feedback datas come from the coil proprieties...

But manual can give the fastest response if u don't want a computer size PID, so for box mod...

Aren’t they all PID mechanisms, even the box mod? When I used to be into box mods and Arctic Fox stuff, it was basically a PID controller, only there is no thermocouple, so all the measurements are based on the temperature coefficient of resistance. I think the Tafee Bowle tries to do what you speak of somewhat, it’s got a thermocouple right above the bowl to read and monitor the air temp. I seem to be the only one on FC who wasn’t that impressed with it though. But I still think the one I tried was broken.

 

[Shadooz]

Aren’t they all PID mechanisms, even the box mod?

And so ? I'm talking about manual discharge from capacitor...

i'm with an analog herborizer so...

but heavy coil won't really need a reactive PID during the draw compared to the box mod. And the box mod may have unsufficient PID due to the size... paradoxal

And for the taffee, i'm not impressed but mostly due to the design

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@invertedisdead I dont think i am going to market them soon, cause raising funds and dedicating workspace and tooling is not financially possible.
ALso i doubt i will be selling them outside EU at least at the start.Also i dont think there will be much interest here in the EU,i remember the downfall of Wychwood,which was quite sad ,cause it was an awesome vaporizer.. I have sold a few to some Locals ,but people here are so broke i charge them just for the parts without labor,it is good enough that they want to convert and also provide feedback from inexperienced type users. Looking at the Journey of the Bud Toaster it is seems like an endless odyssey ,an awesome project for the ages and finally coming to fruition ,bottom line is ,dont give up on your idea !