Discontinued Pax Vaporizer by Ploom

[TommydCat]

Just one question - you purchased a non-medical device and are not using it per their recommendation (i.e. tobacco-only). Given the current litigation-happy climate, what exactly did you really expect them to say?

While we're throwing out wild speculation, I'll say the cause of those scratches are really extrusion gouges as a result of the action of the mouthpiece. I sincerely doubt there are chips or flakes from that material.

 

[lwien]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I have a question for the person who is raising the health concerns of the PAX. Do you grow your own weed?

 

[Jman5280]

Just one question - you purchased a non-medical device and are not using it per their recommendation (i.e. tobacco-only). Given the current litigation-happy climate, what exactly did you really expect them to say?

While we're throwing out wild speculation, I'll say the cause of those scratches are really extrusion gouges as a result of the action of the mouthpiece. I sincerely doubt there are chips or flakes from that material.

Well I didn't expect them to say something negative but I was hoping for a comfortable response.

On one hand, they said it was toolin marks but on the other hand my common sense tells me that's a perfect cover up.

The action? Are you talking about the turning on and turning off pax? If so this action is happening everytime you open your pax or change temps. Therefore every time those metals move against each other there is a potential for metal to scratch off.

I am no expert, hence my hundreds of questions to this community. I would like to know if these metals can scratch themselves.

IMO, The biggest risk for the metal scratching is when you take the mouthpiece off and have to put it back on. When you put the mouthpiece back on, the mouthpiece is getting hit by the edges of the bodies vapor path. It is the bodies vapor path that is most likely doing the scratching of the mouthpiece. The edges of the bodies vapor path are sharp and when you put the mouthpiece on, they are being pressed into the mouthpiece. Think about this motion, this is where the scratching happens.

I haven't read this whole thread, but I have a question for the person who is raising the health concerns of the PAX. Do you grow your own weed?

I think I know where your going, you want to say that my weed has tons of crap in it....well it doesn't. Trust me if I'm this anal about vape construction, I am surely cautious about my buds. My stuff is cleeeeaaaan and pure. Everything true organic. No pestides. No toxins. Str8 nature.

Regardless, even if I was smoking shitty weed, pieces of metal stuck in your body pose a serious threat.

 

[pakalolo]

I also see tiny scratches inside the entry to the vapor tube and understand what you're talking about more clearly.

It would be nice to hear from a FC Staff member on this issue.. Is this the first time this issue has come up I wonder?

This has not come up before. I don't understand why FC should say anything, but I can offer my own opinion: there is no danger whatsoever.

Stainless steel is exceedingly common as cookware. Stainless steel is used in implants. Orthodontists put stainless steel braces in the mouths of kids every day. Oh but braces are made from surgical grade SS, I hear you say.

Surgical grade SS is distinguished by its resistance to corrosion, not the toxicity of the materials used. Health safety is judged by the quantity and how quickly the component metals are released. Surgical grade reduces the corrosion rate and hence the release rate of its metals. Forget surgical grade, however. Even cookware grade SS used to prepare acidic foods (the worst case scenario) does not release chromium or nickel or any other metal in quantities that come anywhere near toxic levels. In fact the quantity released of these metals is exceeded by their presence in our daily food. If the miniscule amount of metal gouged out by scratching somehow managed to make it into your body—doubtful—the effect (if any) would be undetectable. Anyone who really wants to dig into it can start with the Review On Toxicity Of Stainless Steel (Tiina Santonen, Helene Stockmann-Juvala and Antti Zitting, Finnish Institute Of Occupational Health, 2010).

One more point: Ploom's statement was not sketchy in the slightest. They did not say the scratches were from tooling, they said that was a possible explanation. Their position on making safety statements is determined by lawyers and the FDA, not their desire to sneak one by their customers. Finally, I have two Pax units, and neither of them has scratches.

 

[DogBoy]

...have you examined the avb from the Pax under a scope....???...


....as far as the "sketchy" response from Ploom, I concede that you have made valid points...

...I am not concerned aboot toxicity but don't want metal bits in me lungs....

...some one saying we should not worry because our herbs may be worse is disingenuous, imho....

...that is like being told not to worry about inhaling fiberglass because you smoke anyway....

 

[pakalolo]

...have you examined the avb from the Pax under a scope....???...


....as far as the "sketchy" response from Ploom, I concede that you have made valid points...

...I am not concerned aboot toxicity but don't want metal bits in me lungs....

...some one saying we should not worry because our herbs may be worse is disingenuous, imho....

...that is like being told not to worry about inhaling fiberglass because you smoke anyway....

In fact, I have examined Pax ABV under a microscope.

Your analogy does not apply. Fiberglas in the lungs is dangerous, minute SS particles are not. What I was saying—and what the studies show—is that even if all of the scratched metal reached your lungs, it would still release less toxin than you consume naturally every day. The particles are too small to cause lesions. SS is basically inert inside your body, that's why it's used for implants.

People are entitled to their phobias, but they aren't entitled to create them in others. You and @Jman5280 have expressed fear born of speculation. On the opposite side, I gave you some facts and pointed you in the direction of good research. I'll just remind you of the FC philosophy of not spreading misinformation and leave it at that.

 

[DogBoy]

...well, when someone ex presses a concern and is told he should worry aboot what he is smoking instead it kinda pissed me off...

...you are reading a lot into my, ah, "analogy"...

...I certainly was not comparing microscopic particles of surgical stainless steel to fiber glass...

...I was comparing the use of deflection as a defense...

...the fact that the poster felt defensive shows me a weak argument....

...but...fuk that...

...what really puts me off is the aforementioned charing issue I am experiencing...

...the avb from my Pax looks like it came out of an Atmos Raw or something...

...to the naked eye it looks OK but under a scope it doesn't....

...I really want to like this thing and totally dig the form factor...but now I am repeating meself...us old guys do that... (grin)

 

[NickDlow]

Can't argue with the facts thank you @pakalolo

 

[Jman5280]

Stainless steel might not be toxic but it's still metal that can cause respiratory issues if it's in the lungs. It can also cause internal bleeding.

We are assuming this is pure Stainless because that's what Ploom said. I trust Ploom's company, they provided responses and that's more than most companies would even provided. HOWEVER, if you read on the back of PAX, it is made in China.

China made stuff can have it's own issues, Ploom could be unaware (speculation) of any issues. There is a lot of lead coming out of china in everyday products that we use (don't get me started). There are also a lot of poor manufacturing processes. Take all this into account, and that stainlessmay or may not be harmful in terms of toxins. Regardless having shards of metal can cause other known issues to the human body as explained above.

Even so...moving on...

I do see scratches, and based on Plooms response, everyone should see scratches if they are tooling marks....the fact that you (@pakalolo) don't see scratches leads me to believe that the scratches in mine aren't from tooling. Which also means they were scratched in from normal use, and inhaled somewhere.

BUT @pakalolo is right, this is all speculation, however it is reasonable concern.

Would it be ok if we just took what Ploom said and were happy? Or take what anyone said and be comfortable?

I'm not trying to spread misinformation. I am trying to open up discussion for a legitimate concern. That's the point of the board right? To have unbias conversation?

 

[DogBoy]

...well said...

...another issue I note is that the oven floor on my Pax is noticeably higher on one side than the other...I do not see any way to adjust this...

...I am doubtful that this is normal...

...has anyone else noted this...???...

 

[NickDlow]

Lol u guys are over analyzing this stuff. U have a better chance of dying in ur car today than bleeding internally or the ss is releasing toxins from the pax. Relax....

 

[btka]

Ok sorry but as far as i know this is a vapor forum everytime someone says he is concerned about the quality and effects from a vaporizer you tell them it is safe plastic because it is heat resistent, stainless steel is safe because its pssibly also contained in food (AND IT IS SAFE TO EAT SS)... but you are forgetting that we inhale vapor in our lungs.. you forget to say that this heat resitent plastic isn t specially made for vapors (for example to use in cars or other places which get hot and therefor it don t have to be safe if heatet and inhaled in your lungs.. you forget that there are companys making money... that there are companys sspecialized in marketing and dont have to do alot with the manufacturing, why can other companys make vaporizers there own in for example usa and are pricewise the same as ploom pax and others who produce in china and also the materials they use are more expensive (cera made from special ceramic in the usa for example) in my opinion this is a forum a community where people stay together and demand from this companys safe and good working vaporizers and inform others about bad products... in the end a lot of people here start vaping because of health... not because it is stylish 8r hip... and you don t need a stanford degree to realize its not a good idea to use plastic in the vapor path.. and byy the way who nows if the ploom story isn t a marketing story... like 1000 s of other...

 

[pakalolo]

Concerning the SS issue: read the report I linked. There is a section on inhaled SS which deals with the steelworking environment, a much higher risk than hitting a Pax. The conclusion is that the risks are well below the point of concern. It isn't reasonable to continue the speculation of the health effects in the face of science that says otherwise. You can hold whatever beliefs you want, but stop spreading fear here. This is now a moderator decision. Take any further discussion of this point to PMs.

Ok sorry but as far as i know this is a vapor forum everytime someone says he is concerned about the quality and effects from a vaporizer you tell them it is safe plastic because it is heat resistent, stainless steel is safe because its pssibly also contained in food (AND IT IS SAFE TO EAT SS)... but you are forgetting that we inhale vapor in our lungs.. you forget to say that this heat resitent plastic isn t specially made for vapors (for example to use in cars or other places which get hot and therefor it don t have to be safe if heatet and inhaled in your lungs.. you forget that there are companys making money... that there are companys sspecialized in marketing and dont have to do alot with the manufacturing, why can other companys make vaporizers there own in for example usa and are pricewise the same as ploom pax and others who produce in china and also the materials they use are more expensive (cera made from special ceramic in the usa for example) in my opinion this is a forum a community where people stay together and demand from this companys safe and good working vaporizers and inform others about bad products... in the end a lot of people here start vaping because of health... not because it is stylish 8r hip... and you don t need a stanford degree to realize its not a good idea to use plastic in the vapor path.. and byy the way who nows if the ploom story isn t a marketing story... like 1000 s of other...

The decision above will certainly reinforce your opinion of how FC (or maye it's just me) defends manufacturers. First, your use of "everytime" [sic] is an exaggeration. Second, you are posting in ignorance of the facts since it is obvious you didn't read that report.

You should consider this: when you continue fear-mongering in the face of evidence that the fears are unjustified, you are discouraging people who could benefit from the use of the device you are disparaging. Since there is no evidence, just alarmist suspicion, that SS in the Pax could be harmful, you are doing FC members a disservice. If you insist on using only devices that have glass or are made in the US or whatever, that's fine, but don't try to scare everyone into following your example. Yes, FC exists partly to inform about bad products; however, we also exist to correct unwarranted accusations of safety hazards based on speculation that flies in the face of scientific evidence. That's what's happening to the Pax in this thread.

This principle applies in every thread, not just here.

 

[Wizsteve]

if you worried use the lube i mentioned mine has no scratches nor can it get them with this lube cuz there is no fiction.really think it's silly you all clean your pax too much inside my mouth piece all i see is a nice coating of resin and honey oil . and of course your mouth piece could had been machined that way .

when clicking your pax you should be pushing down directly above mouth piece stem and if your doing this and using my coffee machine lube i see no way clicking would cause scratches.
(vapor pathway is in a L shape a scratch piece of metal going against gravity getting past resin making it past the L and into your mouth than being inhaled sorry this would be next to impossible )

 

[420democrat]

I got a pax today new from a retailer I found on pax site, it's charging now can't wait to pack a monster kief bowl, I don't see a screen everyone mentions?

 

[NickDlow]

I got a pax today new from a retailer I found on pax site, it's charging now can't wait to pack a monster kief bowl, I don't see a screen everyone mentions?

It's not really a screen just a flat piece of metal really. The air goes around it that's y it's a little restricted when u draw. But it's a fantastic vape for dry herb, I've never packed a full kief bowl in this guy I was afraid of it being to messy I'm sure it can be done. My concentrates and kief I use my haze vaporizer. I use my pax for the herb n at work cuz it's so stealthy, reliable, and simple.

if you worried use the lube i mentioned mine has no scratches nor can it get them with this lube cuz there is no fiction.really think it's silly you all clean your pax too much inside my mouth piece all i see is a nice coating of resin and honey oil . and of course your mouth piece could had been machined that way .

when clicking your pax you should be pushing down directly above mouth piece stem and if your doing this and using my coffee machine lube i see no way clicking would cause scratches.
(vapor pathway is in a L shape a scratch piece of metal going against gravity getting past resin making it past the L and into your mouth than being inhaled sorry this would be next to impossible )

Good point... I don't even use lube on the inside n I still don't see scratches. I think these guys are a couple hypochondriacs lol

 

[420democrat]

This thing gives monster clouds I did a few kief sandwich bowls with blue dream haze, how to reduce load size? I want to enjoy it but I always rather my solo, I'm on bowl 9 I've cleaned it twice, my oven lid is covered in a layer of vape honey

 

[NickDlow]

The pax is more of a sneaky vape rather than one to just chill n puff on IMO

 

[Madcap79]

This thing gives monster clouds I did a few kief sandwich bowls with blue dream haze, how to reduce load size? I want to enjoy it but I always rather my solo, I'm on bowl 9 I've cleaned it twice, my oven lid is covered in a layer of vape honey

There is a way to reduce oven size using two extra Pax screens. Load the oven to desired fullness. Place one screen flat across the top if the load. Bend the other screen into a V shape and it will keep the load tight by using pressure against the oven lid. Hope that made sense.

 

[NickDlow]

Another way instead of wasting a pax screen u can just get and bowl screen n just roll it like a taco n pop that bad Larry in the oven. That's been working for me, nice evenly vaped ovens.

 

[420democrat]

Another way instead of wasting a pax screen u can just get and bowl screen n just roll it like a taco n pop that bad Larry in the oven. That's been working for me, nice evenly vaped ovens.

Worked well thank you, still rather my solo but this vape is quite solid, significantly better buy then my indica was imo.

 

[NickDlow]

Worked well thank you, still rather my solo but this vape is quite solid, significantly better buy then my indica was imo.

No problem anytime. I agree, I prefer my Haze vaporizer. But if I'm going for stealthy and simple the pax is the one. IMO it seems like all vaporizes have their strengths n weaknesses it's all personal preference I think

 

[420democrat]

Yea pax is best in stealth I've gotten yet. And oven very very easy to load/unload I've been running a pipe cleaner through after every load

 

[New_World]

Stainless steel might not be toxic but it's still metal that can cause respiratory issues if it's in the lungs. It can also cause internal bleeding.

We are assuming this is pure Stainless because that's what Ploom said. I trust Ploom's company, they provided responses and that's more than most companies would even provided. HOWEVER, if you read on the back of PAX, it is made in China.

China made stuff can have it's own issues, Ploom could be unaware (speculation) of any issues. There is a lot of lead coming out of china in everyday products that we use (don't get me started). There are also a lot of poor manufacturing processes. Take all this into account, and that stainlessmay or may not be harmful in terms of toxins. Regardless having shards of metal can cause other known issues to the human body as explained above.

Even so...moving on...

I do see scratches, and based on Plooms response, everyone should see scratches if they are tooling marks....the fact that you (@pakalolo) don't see scratches leads me to believe that the scratches in mine aren't from tooling. Which also means they were scratched in from normal use, and inhaled somewhere.

BUT @pakalolo is right, this is all speculation, however it is reasonable concern.

Would it be ok if we just took what Ploom said and were happy? Or take what anyone said and be comfortable?

I'm not trying to spread misinformation. I am trying to open up discussion for a legitimate concern. That's the point of the board right? To have unbias conversation?

Some people will say its not heated enough to cause concern.
Some will say there are far worse things out there, so don't be concerned.




The truth is.........no one really knows if it will harm YOUR health.
but inhaling something on a regular basis IMHO.....you should consider doing some research.


-------What I do...........
I try to stick to as much glass as I can with my vapes. (SSV for home)
I don't use aluminum grinders or aluminum heating chambers. (space case, volcano, plenty)
I stay away from inhaling butane or lighter fluid. (sorry Vapor Genie)
ect....

 

[pakalolo]

Some people will say its not heated enough to cause concern.
Some will say there are far worse things out there, so don't be concerned.




The truth is.........no one really knows if it will harm YOUR health.
but inhaling something on a regular basis IMHO.....you should consider doing some research.


-------What I do...........
I try to stick to as much glass as I can with my vapes. (SSV for home)
I don't use aluminum grinders or aluminum heating chambers. (space case, volcano, plenty)
I stay away from inhaling butane or lighter fluid. (sorry Vapor Genie)
ect....

This is the Pax thread. Let's stick to the topic. Thanks for your cooperation.