On Patents and Induction Heaters

[TommyDee]

Does this belong here? I'm being nice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dynavap/comments/plw1xr

@TommyDee you bought an Alpine with little regard for the work put in by Pipes.
They ripped his design off, aside from the coil switch which was part of the pcb. The whole heater configuration is a blatant copy.
There were plenty of pictures of the heater in the public domain.

<snip>

No I do not. With Dynavap's endorcement for artisans spawned 5 early adopters of a single circuit. I do not know the genesis and no one is claiming it that I know. Chris became Dynatech, StarDustSalor came in very early, Pipes has standing as does Jeff, and credit to anyone I missed, beathous?

This was an American company taking Induction Heaters to the next level. As far as I know, source vapes put development effort into putting a few components together in a box. I do that. And to be on the mark, I placed the pre-order days before the first image emerged. Of course I looked. I was hoping for a refined component selection but no. However, the market needed more induction heater choices and this was a welcome revelation. Or so it had the opportunity. It was a other IH in a box. Where Randall got his development effort made is a business decision. DV/DT went to China, no? I owned an Orion too. How didn't Dynatec take tech to a next level joining production with Dynavap? No, didn't even cross my mind. This was what, 2-1/2 years ago?

I send you a PM on what is going on. You know me. With respect.

 

[kel]

This is some next level head-fuckery, first they are not infringing any patent, which still doesn't exist, and now they are, even though there's been no court case and legally that is impossible. Yes, maybe they are doing it out of respect and that just shows that they are nice people. It doesn't prove you were correct. As I said earlier, even if it turns out that this was a patent infringement, you still don't have the right to go around calling people thieves without any evidence - that is still morally wrong. I will not apologise for questioning your awful post in the first instance, or trying to educate you on the legal process of patent violation.

Being nice? You call upsetting the Dynavap community, pissing people off, accusing people of crimes they didn't commit, twisting my words into things they are not and destroying a perfectly decent product being... nice? Hell, you have possibly completely ruined the market space for IH and who knows what else!

God help us if you decide to turn nasty... Jesus!

Congratulations, I guess you have finally got your way - I hope this makes you happy

I sincerely hope this is a one off and all the other IH manufacturers are now not screwed... I feel depressed and sick that this is the outcome. Day ruined.

I will leave it to you to go and spread your bad news over on the UFO thread. I am sure you will be very popular!

They are still on sale at Vapefiend, I am going to go and get one I think...

 

[LesPlenty]

Seen this?
Says on the site,
Patented Detection Hardware
But whose?...What is that Sense IH coming out?

RANGER IH

The Ranger features adjustable wattage with aggressive heat prevention utilizing real time temp checks. The Ranger allows for even and adjustable heat up for your DynaVap. 3 Internal 14500 Batteries USB-C Charge Digital Power Control Sesh Counter Full Metal Casing Powerful Center Magnet...

www.thesourcev.com

 

[kel]

It's like watching a particularly nasty car crash in very slow motions... blood and guts flying everywhere...

Dynavap are not cool after all.... very disappointing!

Oh well, as I say, congratulations

Awesome!!

 

[TommyDee]

Appology accepted @kel

This is some next level head-fuckery, first they are not infringing any patent, which still doesn't exist, and now they are, even though there's been no court case and legally that is impossible. Yes, maybe they are doing it out of respect and that just shows that they are nice people. It doesn't prove you were correct. As I said earlier, even if it turns out that this was a patent infringement, you still don't have the right to go around calling people thieves without any evidence - that is still morally wrong. I will not apologise for questioning your awful post in the first instance, or trying to educate you on the legal process of patent violation.

Being nice? You call upsetting the Dynavap community, pissing people off, accusing people of crimes they didn't commit, twisting my words into things they are not and destroying a perfectly decent product being... nice? Hell, you have possibly completely ruined the market space for IH and who knows what else!

God help us if you decide to turn nasty... Jesus!

Congratulations, I guess you have finally got your way - I hope this makes you happy

I sincerely hope this is a one off and all the other IH manufacturers are now not screwed... I feel depressed and sick that this is the outcome. Day ruined.

I will leave it to you to go and spread your bad news over on the UFO thread. I am sure you will be very popular!

They are still on sale at Vapefiend, I am going to go and get one I think...

Apology accepted @kel - now can we just shake hands and move on? I didn't want this, honest - just some recognition for Chris. That was the only purpose of my original post. OG post!

 

[kel]

Appology accepted @kel

Apology accepted @kel - now can we just shake hands and move on? I didn't want this, honest - just some recognition for Chris. That was the only purpose of my original post. OG post!

Hahahaha you are off the charts!!

I am NOT apologising to you! Not in any version of reality you might like to dream up... this is just yet another example of how you twist words to suit your reality. As I already stated, I don't have anything to apologise for. Unlike yourself, your list of offences, against me, the community, is getting longer with each post!

You are a very bad person. Possibly one of the nastiest I have ever had the displeasure to cross paths with. I want nothing to do with you.

You are utterly repulsive in every conceivable manner!

Whether you wanted it or not, you got it, you win - you are responsible for the death of the Dynavap community!

I guess next you will be denying this and refusing to accept responsibility for your actions... I see what you are!

I genuinely believe you need some serious professional help << I am being nice!

 

[TommyDee]

I'm not engaging @kel - I too have ignore. You've twisted every word I said into the wind every which way including Sunday. I stand by my words;

 

[kel]

Bye then... see ya later

Go on... off you pop.....

==

Sat here feeling pretty sick, hurt, upset, angry, disappointed, violated, stacked, kicked in the fuckin balls by this... apart from the repeated vicious manipulations by Mr. Dee, Dynavap are beyond words... so bitterly disappointed in them, I think there is enough evidence to present this here safely and lets face it, it is totally acceptable here to go around accusing others of crimes that have still not been verified as having been commited so I am just going to say it...

Do not buy the Orion or any other IH by Dynavap

- there is apparently a moral obligation not to buy stolen shit!

All I want is some recognition for Pipes!

(sorry, but what works one way can only work the other way too right?)

and before anyone mentions patents... DON'T MAKE IT ABOUT THE LAW!!!

==

@VGOODIEZ while I appreciate you want to do the right thing, I am very upset to see that you are keen to stop stocking something that violates one person's IP, but you still have the Dynavap Orion in stock which clearly violates someone else's IP - remember this is not about the law or patents - it's just what someone on the internet said about morality that caused all this - when are you going to show the same respect to the true originators of this tech?

==

Nothing to say Mr. Dee - thought you were all about morality and the right thing and not using stolen tech and not respecting patent law and due process... I am beginning to suspect you are might just be a shill for Dynavap perhaps?

==

Completely happy, as a human being with morals and a conscience, to take the warning point above...

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Bye then... see ya later

Go on... off you pop.....

==

Sat here feeling pretty sick, hurt, upset, angry, disappointed, violated, stacked, kicked in the fuckin balls by this... apart from the repeated vicious manipulations by Mr. Dee, Dynavap are beyond words... so bitterly disappointed in them, I think there is enough evidence to present this here safely and lets face it, it is totally acceptable here to go around accusing others of crimes that have still not been verified as having been commited so I am just going to say it...

Do not buy the Orion or any other IH by Dynavap

- there is apparently a moral obligation not to buy stolen shit!

All I want is some recognition for Pipes!

(sorry, but what works one way can only work the other way too right?)

and before anyone mentions patents... DON'T MAKE IT ABOUT THE LAW!!!

==

@VGOODIEZ while I appreciate you want to do the right thing, I am very upset to see that you are keen to stop stocking something that violates one person's IP, but you still have the Dynavap Orion in stock which clearly violates someone else's IP - remember this is not about the law or patents - it's just what someone on the internet said about morality that caused all this - when are you going to show the same respect to the true originators of this tech?

==

Nothing to say Mr. Dee - thought you were all about morality and the right thing and not using stolen tech and not respecting patent law and due process... I am beginning to suspect you are might just be a shill for Dynavap perhaps?

==

Completely happy, as a human being with morals and a conscience, to take the warning point above...

Again my decision has nothing to do with any patent Infringement bullshit. My decision has to do with my concerns on the behavior of the vaping fan employee(s). I won't go into it any further on this forum.

 

[kel]

So there we have it... Dynavap get to carry on selling their stolen shit while UFO folks are stopped in their tracks...

Bullshit is exactly right.

I am sorry but I can't support retailers like @VGOODIEZ who pick and choose their moral stances to suit their corporate agendas and continue to sell stolen tech - shameful!

There's a word... spine... not having... something... it seems to be escaping me right now...

edit: morally I should not support any retailer who supports Dynavap as they are clearly profiteering from stolen tech and trying to patent it as their own invention - it really beggars belief, but here we are!

 

[VGOODIEZ]

So there we have it... Dynavap get to carry on selling their stolen shit while UFO folks are stopped in their tracks...

Bullshit is exactly right.

I am sorry but I can't support retailers like @VGOODIEZ who pick and choose their moral stances to suit their corporate agendas and continue to sell stolen tech - shameful!

There's a word... spine... not having... something... it seems to be escaping me right now...

Well you are entitled to your opinion but it would be the first time I ever heard that statement. Go ahead and attack me now. Franky I don't even have a clue what you are talking about now. I don't know all the history of these heaters. I spend a little time in forums to stay connected but I have a business to run and a family to feed so I don't have time to get bogged down with the drama on FC. I have resources I trust who know more about them. I have had discussions directly with Dynavap to find out where they stand. I try to weigh it all out and proceed with honor. Again I dropped the UFO over the company behavior but not over any patent concerns. There were red flags from the beginning and it only took one order for it to all come out. Sorry if that doesn't meet your obviously much higher standards than mine.

 

[kel]

Well you are entitled to your opinion but it would be the first time I ever heard that statement. Go ahead and attack me now. Franky I don't even have a clue what you are talking about now. I don't know all the history of these heaters. I spend a little time in forums to stay connected but I have a business to run and a family to feed so I don't have time to get bogged down with the drama on FC. I have resources I trust who know more about them. I have had discussions directly with Dynavap to find out where they stand. I try to weigh it all out and proceed with honor. Again I dropped the UFO over the company behavior but not over any patent concerns. There were red flags from the beginning and it only took one order for it to all come out. Sorry if that doesn't meet your obviously much higher standards than mine.

Absolutely not attacking you, but rather challenging your position as retailer.

This is a continuation of the demand Mr. Dee has made that people stop selling and buying stolen shit on moral grounds - I am simply accepting defeat, admitting that we live in a world where someone on the internet gets to call the shots apparently and living accordingly and trying to apply the same rules fairly to everyone.

This includes accusing Dynavap of being thieves - as the evidence presented here clearly indicates they are.

The Dynavap stuff is stolen from Pipes - if you are morally okay with selling stolen shit - you go ahead

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Absolutely not attacking you, but rather challenging your position as retailer.

This is a continuation of the demand Mr. Dee has made that people stop selling and buying stolen shit on moral grounds - I am simply accepting defeat, admitting that we live in a world where someone on the internet gets to call the shots apparently and living accordingly and trying to apply the same rules fairly to everyone.

This includes accusing Dynavap of being thieves - as the evidence presented here clearly indicates they are.

The Dynavap stuff is stolen from Pipes - if you are morally okay with selling stolen shit - you go ahead

I have a business to run. I don't have time for this nonsense. I already expressed my opinion on this thread and the origin so no point in discussing further. Now I'm gonna move along now.

 

[kel]

I agree, it is complete nonsense...

The whole thing should never have been brought up, but as you said, it can't be taken back now.

Fact:

If VF are acting dishonourably, so are DV, actually they are worse because they are trying to file for a patent on something they stole!

DV seem to be thieves and liars, whereas VF are just thieves it would seem.

but you go ahead and keep stocking your stolen shit... good luck!! I sincerely wish you well!

 

[VGOODIEZ]

I agree, it is complete nonsense...

The whole thing should never have been brought up, but as you said, it can't be taken back now.

Fact:

If VF are acting dishonourably, so are DV, actually they are worse because they are trying to file for a patent on something they stole!

DV seem to be thieves and liars, whereas VF are just thieves it would seem.

but you go ahead and keep stocking your stolen shit... good luck!! I sincerely wish you well!

It's seems you and Tommy are the experts here so I guess we should just listen to you. But which one, you can't seem to agree?

Again I have a life and business to run. If you feel there is informatiom I should be considering as part of my decision to work with Dynavap then I'd be happy to look at it. But don't assume I know what you are taking about or will see it the same way as you. Also needs to be fact based, We have enough opinions trying to be passed off for fact in this thread as it is. I think that would be more appropriate than publicly attacking me and my moral position. Sending it via PM if you have something of substance.

 

[kel]

It's seems you and Tommy are the experts here so I guess we should just listen to you. But which one, you can't seem to agree?

Again I have a life and business to run. If you feel there is informatiom I should be considering as part of my decision to work with Dynavap then I'd be happy to look at it. But don't assume I know what you are taking about or will see it the same way as you. Also needs to be fact based, We have enough opinions trying to be passed off for fact in this thread as it is. I think that would be more appropriate than publicly attacking me and my moral position. Sending it via PM if you have something of substance.

Oh no, I am just bowing down and agreeing with Mr. Dee that there should be a moral obligation not to sell stolen tech, he is the one with all the evidence - but he also refuses to share it.

What I can say is that the prior art is the Induction Heater from Pipes as presented here in this thread, perhaps you may like to consider taking this up with Dynavap because quite frankly I would like to see Dynavap taken to court and prosecuted over this and stopped from ever making anything similar in the future:

On Patents and Induction Heaters

@invertedisdead - that patent was granted - as usual, certain claims, rarely the whole of it. But to be clear, I stated 'stolen tech'. That began at the non-disclosure agreement. I pointed out the patent to zero in on the tech I am referring to Respectfully, I just don't see anything denoting...

fuckcombustion.com

All I want is some recognition for Pipes as is right and proper - according to the moral code of Mr. Dee anyway!

I am being respectful that Mr. Dee won and adjusting my world view accordingly, that's all, I don't see how I could be any more decent or gracious! There's not many people who would be willing to accept that they are wrong and take the same stand as their opponent in their argument once it became clear. But clear it is, there should only be ONE IH on the market - the one made by Pipes, all others are stolen tech.*

* I still don't see this and think it is absolutely absurd, but in the interests of being a good community member and learning my lesson Mr. Dee taught me I am trying my best to adjust!

 

[scy123]

I still feel their is too much unknown to form a proper opinion. I don't really see anything that would indicate a patent infringement.

It could very well be that vapingfans was feeling the pressure and decided to pull the product to ease it and save face. I didn't know about vapingfans but, from what I seen, even I wouldn't do business with them.

I feel kinda guilty it got this far, but I still feel all my opinions were genuine and warranted.

Further information on this matter will prove to be interesting I would imagine.

 

[kel]

Patent infringement on a patent that hasn't been granted or proven?

Sure would like to know a lot more about what is actually going on!

You are probably right... a similar thought crossed my mind - pressure from the thought of losing retailers? but of course...

Could be wrong too!

However this turns out I am seriously not impressed with certain people

Obviously things could have gone a lot better!!

Curious, it's possible it's all smoke and mirrors, UFO is still available really, and this is just to get someone to shut up

Unfortunately Mr. Dee did drag up a lot of shit, including DV themselves being liars and thieves

Now I have lost a lot of respect for DV

Trouble is there's no going back from this... this is what happens when try to have a reasonable discussions with a trouble making ...

 

[scy123]

Their is supposedly a tea time or something tomorrow with a DynaVap official?

Very much looking forward to the questions and responses.

 

[kel]

The thing that upsets me most about all this is that all I did was stand up to unsubstantiated accusations of theft!

What I really wanted was a rational response and explanation... that's all!

As it happened, I got repeatedly attacked instead. I'm a very reasonable person, if you re-read the thread, anyone will see that...

That's all... really!!

Seriously not interested in anything DV have to say now really... lost all respect for the

 

[scy123]

True, all of this could of been avoided with a well written and thought out explanation.

Instead we get smoke and mirrors.

 

[badbee]

I vote this the stupidest thread on FC...

 

[kel]

Exactly. Imagine a rational sensible response to my first enquiry!

HI Kel,

"Here's a photo of the internals of both devices, see how they are exactly the same..."

"Here are the schematics... see how they are identical..."

"Here is the actual patent in question and the details of the UFO that specifically match the patent ..."

So many options for a civilised response... but no... had to have this epic vomit of utter bullshit instead... I tried to keep bringing it back to facts and certainties, but I failed... sorry! But then some people you can never win with... I mean look at the lengths they went to to try and discredit me, even bare faced lies when the evidence in this very thread to refute their nasty accusations! His last 'accepting my apology' when I specifically said I wasn't apologising - offering a fake hand of friendship in the same breath - cheap dirty tricks to gain credit and trick people into thinking that they are being nice. Yeah right. Only a complete idiot would fall for that one.

I would be happy to never hear from them ever again... alas///

Absolutely agree 100% @badbee

 

[scy123]

Yea, I would have ended it in a post or 2 with exactly my thoughts backing up any claims I made.

 

[kel]

Yep! If there was any actual substance to the accusations that would have been so trivially easy to do...

and you know what... 6 pages in and we *still* don't have any actual proof, just he said she said bullshit!