Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)
- Thread starter SnidelyWhiplash
- Start date
turk
turk
..
...said before, will say again...think what u want..I'll go anywhere I desire.. Until u have something (evidence, facts) that compel/demand a certain response...I'll respond the way I feel it deserves...if that doesn't work for u.. C'est-la-vie..
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
LOL, you're funny! You do talk just like a politician.
I may not have facts, but I don't really need them. You can deny all you want. Like I said before, if this subject bothered you so much, you should not have said you were with them at SF in the first place. (Remember, YOU said that, NOT anyone else here.)
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Keep talking like a politician, you're making no sense whatsoever. I suppose we could start this whole conversation over again..... Oh, that's right. You said you wanted to drop it. Despite the fact that YOU started all this by saying you were with them at SF. All I wanted was a little clarification. Did you participate, or not?
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Of course you are.
YOU started all of this by saying you were with them at SF. But of course, you're "done" if someone wants to know more.......
It is artificial in the sense that we are not a poor country all of a sudden. We're still a very rich country. Things could change tomorrow if Congress wanted it to. We have everything we need to manufacture here in the US. The only reason we aren't, is because the US is not favorable to that kind of business.
About the fender...like I said, that's just something I heard(on the radio). They also talked about what you said. The fender costs so much to ship, because it is big and bulky, not necessarily heavy.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
Turn the other cheek, judge not. And so on. They haven't murdered anyone and far more destructive corporate decisions are taken every day even though they may not be overtly criminal. That doesn't grab headlines though, as the powerful generally profit.
Indeed the people affected won't be happy, but if you really want to attempt to understand the situation then it's essential that you take an objective view rather than focusing on one small part. If you want to be able to prevent it happening again and to learn any lessons then it's essential.
If you go back and read the quote in context there's no reason whatsoever for you to think that turk was there vicki. It's completely beyond me how you've convinced yourself he said he was. It was t-dub that implied any connection at all.
Someone said
turk said in response:
Nothing about being at these black bloc vandal parade.
t-dub, you've been causing trouble
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Turn the other cheek, and judge not.....I am at a loss for words. I'm shocked, really. That is your justification for vandalism on people's property? Innocent people's property? They aren't even going after the people they are really pissed at!! I can see just fine, thank you. Just because someone is supposed to turn the other cheek and not judge, doesn't mean people need to put up with this type of fucked up behavior either.
Not me, but, some people are going to get guns and just shoot people for this kind of shit. Yes, that's wrong too, but if enough innocent people get tired of people destroying what little they might have, they will start to do something about it. I've already heard people talk about that kind of vigilante justice against people like this. (Even right here in THIS thread) This just causes more trouble, it does not help their cause. Those kinds of riots also say a lot about the character of the people that did it. They don't respect other people, or their property. How could anyone possibly listen to what they have to say when they act like that?
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
That is possible, I'll grant you that. But, here's a good question....why did he keep avoiding my question? If he had nothing to hide, he would just answer the simple question I presented to him, but he didn't.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
wtf? did I try to justify it? I think not. It is what it is. These vandals aren't in the right, but there is a reason for why these things happen. You can either judge it, or try to work out why it happened and how to stop it happening again. Well, you could do both, but not here- just judging the action that you see as wrong. How would you have dealt with the Northern Ireland peace process? Not by releasing convicted terrorist murderers to freedom, I'll bet. Nevertheless that was the road to peace. It doesn't mean you bow down to every demand, but you need an open mind as well as a retributive one if progress is to be made.
I think that to some degree the people that are likely to undertake vigilante killings and the ones committing the vandalism here are actually of a similar 'direct extreme action' personality type, simply with different values.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
It may be "what it is," but as I said before, people don't have to put up with things like this. It causes problems, it doesn't help anyone. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels their behavior is wrong. "Turning the other cheek and not judging" (as you said), does not mean that innocent people have to put up with behavior like this. How can progress be made when these kinds of things happen. How can anyone listen to these people when they behave like this?
That does not change the fact that the rioters are just causing more trouble, hurting people that do not deserve to be hurt. Everyone has a breaking point, no matter how docile they are.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
I hope I've made clear enough that I think it's a wrong course of action, and I think it damages their argument. However, ignore it at your peril. Simply condemning the rioters is just firefighting rather than tackling the source of the ignition, and so the flames will come again.
2clicker
Observer
that is not what i meant.
what i meant was that people put too much stock into material objects. i mean this tea party guy is talking about shooting people cuz they are destroying material shit.
im sorry, but no material object is worth peoples lives regardless of how big of a dooshbag the person doing the destruction is.
also, the statement "Wannaknock the windshield out of an exotic car? get fucked." just shows how people use expensive shit as a status symbol. give me a break. people whos priorities are so far outta whack dont deserve such fine automobiles.
That is possible, I'll grant you that. But, here's a good question....why did he keep avoiding my question? If he had nothing to hide, he would just answer the simple question I presented to him, but he didn't.
isnt it possible that he attended and participated in the protest itself, but was not part of the group who was rioting? not EVERY person at the protest was destroying stuff. everything is not black and white.
could not agree more.
lwien
Well-Known Member
If expensive shit wasn't used for status symbols, there wouldn't be any expensive shit.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
@Turk, funny little quandary you are in now eh? Can't say yes since you will be supporting violence, and you can't say no since you will be dropping the "radical" pose, but that's OK, Van Jones did it and look, he's fine! Crack open the old STORM manual and see what he says about it. Oh yes, I've read that and Saul Alinsky too. Might make you think about where you are standing and who you are choosing to stand with these days. Show me your friends and I will show you your future, Turk.
@Venemous Yeah Badnarik is interesting and informative. "Death is permanent and irreversible!" Love that quote . . . good stuff.
@Wat The debt numbers aren't sensational, like you say, they are UNSUSTAINABLE. The Fed has painted itself into a corner with its money printing, now interest rates can't be raised without really hurting people.
"Currently, we spend $4 billion per week in interest. That will hit $10 billion by 2016 and $15 billion by 2020 without a rise in rates. We are in a perilous economic state." -Martin Armstrong
Wat, your sophomoric analysis has a HUGE flaw and that is this: China has a 3 TRILLION dollar SURPLUS and we have 16 trillion in DEBT. The way you grow an economy, is to not only produce, but consume less than you produce, and save. This is what the Chinese did and what we did not. We are buying stuff we don't need with money we don't have. Its fake, and will not bring us out of our global economic problems. Until you understand global capital flows, bond markets, and how compound interest works, you might want to study a little more, and I'm not talking about that university handout you keep quoting useless GDP %'s from . . . and the problem, Wat, is not that I have been fooled into thinking there isn't enough money (like I'm gonna go to the Pentagon and tell them we decided to make love, not war, so they can all go home now since they are out of a job), its that you have been fooled into thinking that your rights are instead privileges granted by the government, and that your property does not belong to you, the individual, but to society as a whole. All personal rights come via property . . . one thing I know for sure: I will be "enjoying" another round of quantitative easing while I watch the EMU burn, starting with Greece.
Here is a little reading to start you on your way . . .
@Venemous Yeah Badnarik is interesting and informative. "Death is permanent and irreversible!" Love that quote . . . good stuff.
@Wat The debt numbers aren't sensational, like you say, they are UNSUSTAINABLE. The Fed has painted itself into a corner with its money printing, now interest rates can't be raised without really hurting people.
"Currently, we spend $4 billion per week in interest. That will hit $10 billion by 2016 and $15 billion by 2020 without a rise in rates. We are in a perilous economic state." -Martin Armstrong
Wat, your sophomoric analysis has a HUGE flaw and that is this: China has a 3 TRILLION dollar SURPLUS and we have 16 trillion in DEBT. The way you grow an economy, is to not only produce, but consume less than you produce, and save. This is what the Chinese did and what we did not. We are buying stuff we don't need with money we don't have. Its fake, and will not bring us out of our global economic problems. Until you understand global capital flows, bond markets, and how compound interest works, you might want to study a little more, and I'm not talking about that university handout you keep quoting useless GDP %'s from . . . and the problem, Wat, is not that I have been fooled into thinking there isn't enough money (like I'm gonna go to the Pentagon and tell them we decided to make love, not war, so they can all go home now since they are out of a job), its that you have been fooled into thinking that your rights are instead privileges granted by the government, and that your property does not belong to you, the individual, but to society as a whole. All personal rights come via property . . . one thing I know for sure: I will be "enjoying" another round of quantitative easing while I watch the EMU burn, starting with Greece.
Here is a little reading to start you on your way . . .
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
I agree, people can be very materialistic. What bothers me is that they were destroying everything. They weren't even going after the people that pissed them off! They were breaking everything they could find and spray painting AVERAGE cars, probably driven by average people, but definitely innocent bystanders. They did not target only the rich, or the rich people's property. They targeted EVERYONE.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
haha, well here's some back for you. Not some radical- former US treasury deputy secretary and CEO of Shenzhen Development Bank.
Not the book though I'm afraid, just the preview. But here's an interview with the man.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/12/13/frank-newman-china-spending/
here's the video but I can't work out how to embed it.
http://asiasociety.org/hong-kong/frank-newman-six-myths-holding-back-us-economy
Not the book though I'm afraid, just the preview. But here's an interview with the man.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/12/13/frank-newman-china-spending/
here's the video but I can't work out how to embed it.
http://asiasociety.org/hong-kong/frank-newman-six-myths-holding-back-us-economy
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Wat, once again you malign my source without even reading it . . . Martin Armstrong is founder of Princeton Economics and developer of the "Economic Confidence Model" the most complete and accurate model of global capital flows and markets to date, so please do your homework before writing him off . . .
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
Give me a chance. I'm just keeping you busy whilst I read. But I did just read a similar article drawing parallels with the roman downfall on todays BBC. Economies are much different now though.
(and I meant my source was not some less credible left wing radical, rather than anything about yours)
I think worked out how to embed that video....?
Fuck it I can't. Do follow the video link though 
Ah ha, a different one, but virtually the same presentation I hope
(and I meant my source was not some less credible left wing radical, rather than anything about yours)
Ah ha, a different one, but virtually the same presentation I hope
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
A holiday weekend? Lucky for some! But not me 
(though I think we've got one coming up for the Queens diamond jubilee celebrations sometime very soon though. Not that I will be participating. You might've been able to guess that I'm not a royalist. I'll still enjoy the free day though!
)
(though I think we've got one coming up for the Queens diamond jubilee celebrations sometime very soon though. Not that I will be participating. You might've been able to guess that I'm not a royalist. I'll still enjoy the free day though!
)