Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)

lwien

Well-Known Member
This thread is a microcosm of our congress at work. Is it any wonder that nothing gets done about anything.
 
lwien,
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turk

turk
..
Don't even go there. You started all this with your one post saying you were with them at SF. I simply asked a question that you refused to answer. Damn, I feel like I'm talking to a politician!
...said before, will say again...think what u want..I'll go anywhere I desire.. Until u have something (evidence, facts) that compel/demand a certain response...I'll respond the way I feel it deserves...if that doesn't work for u.. C'est-la-vie..
 
turk,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
..
...said before, will say again...think what u want..I'll go anywhere I desire.. Until u have something (evidence, facts) that compel/demand a certain response...I'll respond the way I feel it deserves...if that doesn't work for u.. C'est-la-vie..

LOL, you're funny! You do talk just like a politician. :rolleyes:

I may not have facts, but I don't really need them. You can deny all you want. Like I said before, if this subject bothered you so much, you should not have said you were with them at SF in the first place. (Remember, YOU said that, NOT anyone else here.) :shrug:
 
Vicki,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
Yea , you're right facts just get in the way...who can be bothered...

Keep talking like a politician, you're making no sense whatsoever. I suppose we could start this whole conversation over again..... Oh, that's right. You said you wanted to drop it. Despite the fact that YOU started all this by saying you were with them at SF. All I wanted was a little clarification. Did you participate, or not?
 
Vicki,

dannkk

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute... First of all, our crisis is hardly artificial. Bank bailouts wouldn't have happened if this was the case. Car manf bailouts wouldn't have happened either. This is real and it's down right scary.

Clinton really fucked us by giving up everything to china.. It started with concrete... Then military trade secrets...The rest is simply history. If it wasn't for public rage, clinton would of successfully given them a port in los angeles. He also gave china full control of the panama canal.

It also doesn't cost $250 to ship a fender from china. The order gets shipped in bulk. It would literally come down to roughly $25 a fender.. Shipping costs vary based on the size of the item, not weight. So the more shit you can stuff inside the container, the cheaper it is to ship. Shipping time can range from 5-9 weeks, so it's important for those people turning the product over, to order in large bulk to sustain them until the next shipment.

This is very common with junk furniture these days.

It is artificial in the sense that we are not a poor country all of a sudden. We're still a very rich country. Things could change tomorrow if Congress wanted it to. We have everything we need to manufacture here in the US. The only reason we aren't, is because the US is not favorable to that kind of business.

About the fender...like I said, that's just something I heard(on the radio). They also talked about what you said. The fender costs so much to ship, because it is big and bulky, not necessarily heavy.
 
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WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
How I see it a bunch of punks destroying everything. It's bullshit to destroy property of people that did nothing to you. What is the point of destroying innocent people's property just to make a point? If someone destroyed my home or car, I wouldn't give a flying fuck what they had to say. I don't care what their "issue" is.
Turn the other cheek, judge not. And so on. They haven't murdered anyone and far more destructive corporate decisions are taken every day even though they may not be overtly criminal. That doesn't grab headlines though, as the powerful generally profit.

Indeed the people affected won't be happy, but if you really want to attempt to understand the situation then it's essential that you take an objective view rather than focusing on one small part. If you want to be able to prevent it happening again and to learn any lessons then it's essential.

I have every right to ask a question, and expect an answer. The fact that you keep avoiding the question suggests that you did participate, but refuse to answer.

Going back to what originally started this....t-dub quoted you because you wrote in a forum that you were with them at SF. Then you attacked him for doing so, and acted like you were totally innocent and offended. If you put that out there in the first place, people are allowed to ask more. If you didn't want to talk about it, you shouldn't have said you anything in the first place.
If you go back and read the quote in context there's no reason whatsoever for you to think that turk was there vicki. It's completely beyond me how you've convinced yourself he said he was. It was t-dub that implied any connection at all.

Someone said
If you recall 2005/2006 when ca had those huge immigration rallies where 1 million of them showed up in downtown la,news cameras captured these people saying Mexico was número uno. Well if thats the case, go back... Not to mention their waving of the mexico flag.
turk said in response:
....I was at the ones in s.f.....I support the immigrant community....I'm NOT a liberal.....radical, would probably be the word that best describes me.... .
Nothing about being at these black bloc vandal parade. :shrug:

t-dub, you've been causing trouble ;) :lol:
 
WatTyler,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
Turn the other cheek, judge not. And so on.

Indeed the people affected won't be happy, but if you really want to attempt to understand the situation then it's essential that you take an objective view rather than focusing on one small part.

Turn the other cheek, and judge not.....I am at a loss for words. I'm shocked, really. That is your justification for vandalism on people's property? Innocent people's property? They aren't even going after the people they are really pissed at!! I can see just fine, thank you. Just because someone is supposed to turn the other cheek and not judge, doesn't mean people need to put up with this type of fucked up behavior either.

Not me, but, some people are going to get guns and just shoot people for this kind of shit. Yes, that's wrong too, but if enough innocent people get tired of people destroying what little they might have, they will start to do something about it. I've already heard people talk about that kind of vigilante justice against people like this. (Even right here in THIS thread) This just causes more trouble, it does not help their cause. Those kinds of riots also say a lot about the character of the people that did it. They don't respect other people, or their property. How could anyone possibly listen to what they have to say when they act like that?
 
Vicki,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
If you go back and read the quote in context there's no reason whatsoever for you to think that turk was there vicki. It's completely beyond me how you've convinced yourself he said he was. It was t-dub that implied any connection at all.

That is possible, I'll grant you that. But, here's a good question....why did he keep avoiding my question? If he had nothing to hide, he would just answer the simple question I presented to him, but he didn't. :shrug:
 
Vicki,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
Turn the other cheek, and judge not.....I am at a loss for words. I'm shocked, really. That is your justification for vandalism on people's property? Innocent people's property? They aren't even going after the people they are really pissed at!! I can see just fine, thank you. Just because someone is supposed to turn the other cheek and not judge, doesn't mean people need to put up with this type of fucked up behavior either.
wtf? did I try to justify it? I think not. It is what it is. These vandals aren't in the right, but there is a reason for why these things happen. You can either judge it, or try to work out why it happened and how to stop it happening again. Well, you could do both, but not here- just judging the action that you see as wrong. How would you have dealt with the Northern Ireland peace process? Not by releasing convicted terrorist murderers to freedom, I'll bet. Nevertheless that was the road to peace. It doesn't mean you bow down to every demand, but you need an open mind as well as a retributive one if progress is to be made.

Not me, but, some people are going to get guns and just shoot people for this kind of shit. Yes, that's wrong too, but if enough innocent people get tired of people destroying what little they might have, they will start to do something about it. I've already heard people talk about that kind of vigilante justice against people like this. (Even right here in THIS thread) This just causes more trouble, it does not help their cause. Those kinds of riots also say a lot about the character of the people that did it. They don't respect other people, or their property. How could anyone possibly listen to what they have to say when they act like that?
I think that to some degree the people that are likely to undertake vigilante killings and the ones committing the vandalism here are actually of a similar 'direct extreme action' personality type, simply with different values.
 
WatTyler,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
wtf? did I try to justify it? I think not. It is what it is. You can either judge it, or try to work out why it happened and how to stop it happening again. Well you can do both, but you don't
- just judging the action that you see as wrong. How would you have dealt with the Northern Ireland peace process? Not by releasing convicted terrorist murderers to freedom, I'll bet. Nevertheless that was the road to peace. It doesn't mean you bow down, but you need an open mind as well as a retributive one if progress is to be made.

It may be "what it is," but as I said before, people don't have to put up with things like this. It causes problems, it doesn't help anyone. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels their behavior is wrong. "Turning the other cheek and not judging" (as you said), does not mean that innocent people have to put up with behavior like this. How can progress be made when these kinds of things happen. How can anyone listen to these people when they behave like this?


I think that to some degree the people that are likely to undertake vigilante killings and the ones committing the vandalism here are of a similar 'direct extreme action' personality type, simply with different values.

That does not change the fact that the rioters are just causing more trouble, hurting people that do not deserve to be hurt. Everyone has a breaking point, no matter how docile they are.
 
Vicki,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
How can anyone listen to these people when they behave like this?
I hope I've made clear enough that I think it's a wrong course of action, and I think it damages their argument. However, ignore it at your peril. Simply condemning the rioters is just firefighting rather than tackling the source of the ignition, and so the flames will come again.
 
WatTyler,

2clicker

Observer
No one has the right to destroy someone else'ds property because they are pissed off at the gov't. I'm sure you would be royally pissed off if some dumbass destroyed your property in a riot. Especially when you did nothing to them at all. Here's something you should think about also. What they did is a crime. When people go around vandalizing other people's property, we are all just supposed to "get over it?" Please explain to me how what these people did is right. I really want to know!!

that is not what i meant.

what i meant was that people put too much stock into material objects. i mean this tea party guy is talking about shooting people cuz they are destroying material shit.

im sorry, but no material object is worth peoples lives regardless of how big of a dooshbag the person doing the destruction is.

also, the statement "Wannaknock the windshield out of an exotic car? get fucked." just shows how people use expensive shit as a status symbol. give me a break. people whos priorities are so far outta whack dont deserve such fine automobiles.

That is possible, I'll grant you that. But, here's a good question....why did he keep avoiding my question? If he had nothing to hide, he would just answer the simple question I presented to him, but he didn't. :shrug:

isnt it possible that he attended and participated in the protest itself, but was not part of the group who was rioting? not EVERY person at the protest was destroying stuff. everything is not black and white.

I hope I've made clear enough that I think it's a wrong course of action, and I think it damages their argument. However, ignore it at your peril. Simply condemning the rioters is just firefighting rather than tacking the true source of the ignition, and so the flames will come again.

could not agree more.
 
2clicker,

lwien

Well-Known Member
...just shows how people use expensive shit as a status symbol. give me a break. people whos priorities are so far outta whack dont deserve such fine automobiles.


If expensive shit wasn't used for status symbols, there wouldn't be any expensive shit.
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
@Turk, funny little quandary you are in now eh? Can't say yes since you will be supporting violence, and you can't say no since you will be dropping the "radical" pose, but that's OK, Van Jones did it and look, he's fine! Crack open the old STORM manual and see what he says about it. Oh yes, I've read that and Saul Alinsky too. Might make you think about where you are standing and who you are choosing to stand with these days. Show me your friends and I will show you your future, Turk.

@Venemous Yeah Badnarik is interesting and informative. "Death is permanent and irreversible!" Love that quote . . . good stuff.

@Wat The debt numbers aren't sensational, like you say, they are UNSUSTAINABLE. The Fed has painted itself into a corner with its money printing, now interest rates can't be raised without really hurting people.

"Currently, we spend $4 billion per week in interest. That will hit $10 billion by 2016 and $15 billion by 2020 without a rise in rates. We are in a perilous economic state." -Martin Armstrong

Wat, your sophomoric analysis has a HUGE flaw and that is this: China has a 3 TRILLION dollar SURPLUS and we have 16 trillion in DEBT. The way you grow an economy, is to not only produce, but consume less than you produce, and save. This is what the Chinese did and what we did not. We are buying stuff we don't need with money we don't have. Its fake, and will not bring us out of our global economic problems. Until you understand global capital flows, bond markets, and how compound interest works, you might want to study a little more, and I'm not talking about that university handout you keep quoting useless GDP %'s from . . . and the problem, Wat, is not that I have been fooled into thinking there isn't enough money (like I'm gonna go to the Pentagon and tell them we decided to make love, not war, so they can all go home now since they are out of a job), its that you have been fooled into thinking that your rights are instead privileges granted by the government, and that your property does not belong to you, the individual, but to society as a whole. All personal rights come via property . . . one thing I know for sure: I will be "enjoying" another round of quantitative easing while I watch the EMU burn, starting with Greece. :cheers:

Here is a little reading to start you on your way . . .

 
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Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
that is not what i meant. what i meant was that people put too much stock into material objects.

I agree, people can be very materialistic. What bothers me is that they were destroying everything. They weren't even going after the people that pissed them off! They were breaking everything they could find and spray painting AVERAGE cars, probably driven by average people, but definitely innocent bystanders. They did not target only the rich, or the rich people's property. They targeted EVERYONE.
 
Vicki,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Wat, once again you malign my source without even reading it . . . Martin Armstrong is founder of Princeton Economics and developer of the "Economic Confidence Model" the most complete and accurate model of global capital flows and markets to date, so please do your homework before writing him off . . .
 
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WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
Give me a chance. I'm just keeping you busy whilst I read. But I did just read a similar article drawing parallels with the roman downfall on todays BBC. Economies are much different now though.

(and I meant my source was not some less credible left wing radical, rather than anything about yours)

I think worked out how to embed that video....?
Fuck it I can't. Do follow the video link though :)
Ah ha, a different one, but virtually the same presentation I hope
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
ok, ok Wat, I get ya. :) Hey its a holiday weekend, maybe its time to wind the discussion down a little and start relaxing together a bit? Its been an intense few days in here . . .
 
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WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
A holiday weekend? Lucky for some! But not me :|

(though I think we've got one coming up for the Queens diamond jubilee celebrations sometime very soon though. Not that I will be participating. You might've been able to guess that I'm not a royalist. I'll still enjoy the free day though! :D)
 
WatTyler,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Not a royalist??? I'm SHOCKED Wat, really ;) but yes its memorial day this weekend. Funny though, doesn't seem like summer with all the rain we have been having this year, no real sun yet . . .
 
t-dub,
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