Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)

[dannkk]

Obama reading from his new book, I think.

 

[WatTyler]

Vicki, that means the top 25% of income earners pays that % of the total [INCOME]taxes collected and yes its not fair . . .

Edit: nevermind, it makes sense now. I had some comments on ignore and I couldn't understand the point of some of the discussion- it what the tax figures were meant to show. I get it now. However, though there is an issue here it's more one of lost opportunity, I'd still argue that I'm more worried about what's economically fair for the other 75% of society, and the fact that the top 1,5 and 10 don't pay enough. I can't say I have all that much sympathy for the situation of the top 25% of earners as a bracket, although they might think the burden is unfairly spread within that bracket. And if the very highest earners paid more then that total percentage contribution to income tax of that quartile would be even higher. Is that really unfair? If that percentage goes down, then the relative percentage contribution of the poorest (or at least the other 75% of hard working people) will go up.

 

[Vicki]

Edit: nevermind, it makes sense now. I had some comments on ignore and I couldn't understand the point of some of the discussion- it what the tax figures were meant to show. I get it now. However, though there is an issue here it's more one of lost opportunity, I'd still argue that I'm more worried about what's economically fair for the other 75% of society, and the fact that the top 1,5 and 10 don't pay enough. I can't say I have all that much sympathy for the situation of the top 25% of earners as a bracket, although they might think the burden is unfairly spread within that bracket. And if the very highest earners paid more then that total percentage contribution to income tax of that quartile would be even higher. Is that really unfair? If that percentage goes down, then the relative percentage contribution of the poorest (or at least the other 75% of hard working people) will go up.

Just because I fall into a certain tax bracket does not mean I'm not struggling. Are you saying because we are in a certain tax bracket that we don't work hard? We work our asses off! Blue collar jobs, not white collar. Like I said before, we pay enough taxes and so many medical bills that we can hardly live. Saying you have no sympathy for people like me is just rude.

 

[WatTyler]

Are you saying because we are in a certain tax bracket that we don't work hard?

I don't think I said anything of the sort, actually. Or even close.

Saying you have no sympathy for people like me is just rude.

No it's not, save your indignation. Try to take an objective view rather than a self centred one. There's no point letting hurting your feelings.

Nor did I say I have no sympathy. You may be struggling to maintain a certain standard of living, and for that I do have a degree of sympathy, but there are 75% of people worse off- and their economic hardships do get far more of my attention and sympathy. The gulf between the richest and poorest has never been higher. Whilst the middle and the poor get poorer, the richest are getting much richer. Why attack the pretty meagre standard of living of the poorest victims as a solution to the economic mistakes of your bankers, investors, hedge funds and greedy financial system? It's like kicking the dog. And I do honestly struggle to see how you can reconcile it with Christian values- didn't Jesus say some story about the size of donations in the temple, and that the small one from the poor meant more than the big ones from the rich? And I'm sure Jesus would preach that the rich could and should do much more to help the poor, as could we all, rather than resenting what help they do get, and I'm 100% certain he'd include illegal immigrants in there.

we can hardly live.

Puh-lease. If you're in the top 25% of earners in the USA, the worlds largest economy, then you're leading an economically privileged life compared to most other human beings. At least recognise where you are fortunate. At $77k your income would be 197% of the American average, and 434% of the world average salary. If you can hardly live, then what hope is there for the rest of humanity?

 

[Tea Party]

Why attack the pretty meagre standard of living of the poorest victims as a solution to the economic mistakes of your bankers, investors, hedge funds and greedy financial system? It's like kicking the dog

This just shows how uninformed you are.

Did wall street make mistakes? YES

Did main street make mistakes? YES

People who could not afford to purchased big houses on no money down. People leveraged their homes for tv's and jet skis. Credit isa good thing but you have to be responsible.

Laying all the blame on wall street is like blaming jack danials for a death in a drunken driving accident.

 

[Vicki]

I don't think I said anything of the sort actually. Or even close.


No it's not, save your indignation. Try to take an objective view rather than a self centred one. There's no point in hurting your feelings.

Nor did I say I have no sympathy. You may be struggling to maintain a certain standard of living, and for that I do have a degree of sympathy, but there are 75% of people worse off- and their economic hardships do get far more of my attention and sympathy. The gulf between the richest and poorest has never been higher. Whilst the middle and the poor get poorer, the richest are getting much richer. Why attack the pretty meagre standard of living of the poorest victims as a solution to the economic mistakes of your bankers, investors, hedge funds and greedy financial system? It's like kicking the dog. And I do honestly struggle to see how you can reconcile it with Christian values- didn't Jesus say some story about the size of donations in the temple, and that the small one from the poor meant more than the big ones from the rich? I'm sure Jesus would preach that the rich could and should do much more to help the poor, as could we all, and I'm 100% certain he'd include illegal immigrants in there.


Puh-lease. If you're in the top 25% of earners in the USA, the worlds largest economy, then you're leading an economically privileged life compared to most other human beings. At least recognise where you are fortunate. At $77k your income would be 197% of the American average, and 434% of the world average. If you can hardly live, then what hope is there for the rest of humanity?

Wow, unbelievable. Go back and read the original post you made before my response to you. You did say you have no sympathy for people in a certain tax bracket. Despite not really knowing anyone in that bracket, and how hard their lives could really be, like mine. That's just wrong. Like I said before, we are taxed a lot, and with medical bills, we only have enough to pay monthly bills and live paycheck to paycheck, for the most part. When we have any leftover money, it's a miracle.

I am fortunate to have a roof over my head, but that could change at any time. I have decided to forego some treatments and medicine's, in an attempt to NOT bankrupt my family. Yes, our heads are above water, but barely. Indignation?? Seriously?? Despite the fact that we are hard up, we STILL tithe 10% of our income AND donate our time and money to help other people. God also said "judge not, lest ye be judged." I judge no one, and my conscience is clear.

What hope is there? I ask God this very question everyday.

 

[WatTyler]

Wow, unbelievable. Go back and read the original post you made before my response to you. You did say you have no sympathy for people in a certain tax bracket.

Uhhhmmm, please, you read it again: .

I can't say I have all that much sympathy for the situation of the top 25% of earners as a bracket, although they might think the burden is unfairly spread within that bracket.

"not all that much" would suggest some to any other reader, I'm sure.

And I mean it's pretty indignant of you to call me "rude" for a political opinion. And one that's comparatively inoffensive next to some of the stuff we've heard in this thread.

 

[Vicki]

Uhhhmmm, please, you read it again: .


"not all that much" would suggest some to any other reader, I'm sure.

And it''s pretty indignant of you to call me "rude" for a political opinion. And one that's comparatively inoffensive next to some of the stuff we've heard in this thread.

It's rude because you act like I have all the money in the world, and am unsympathetic. That's a joke! You are pre-judging me when you don't even know me.

 

[WatTyler]

lol, Vicki, I do not act like you have anything (though I think you should recognise more than a 'roof over your head'). This isn't about you- it's you that keeps bringing it back to you and your personal situation, not me. All I've said, quite casually, is that your tax bracket is not the most needy. There are areas of bigger injustice or dysfunction. No need to take it so personally.

And if you're in the top 25% of Americas earners and yet the resource allocation is so screwed up that you're also forgoing medical treatment then the system is even more broken then I thought. It goes some way to prove my point that the very richest should do more to help.

 

[Vicki]

Edit: nevermind, it makes sense now. I had some comments on ignore and I couldn't understand the point of some of the discussion- it what the tax figures were meant to show. I get it now. However, though there is an issue here it's more one of lost opportunity, I'd still argue that I'm more worried about what's economically fair for the other 75% of society, and the fact that the top 1,5 and 10 don't pay enough. I can't say I have all that much sympathy for the situation of the top 25% of earners as a bracket, although they might think the burden is unfairly spread within that bracket. And if the very highest earners paid more then that total percentage contribution to income tax of that quartile would be even higher. Is that really unfair? If that percentage goes down, then the relative percentage contribution of the poorest (or at least the other 75% of hard working people) will go up.

You started this conversation with this paragraph. To me, it was like you were implying that the other 25% don't work hard. So, yes, I took that personally, and went from there.

 

[Tea Party]

It goes some way to prove my point that the very richest should do more to help.

Who pays the bills once you spend all the money everyone else once had?

 

[WatTyler]

Ummm, smart question! you have this thing called an economy which generates money (most of the time)

 

[Vicki]

Ummm, smart question! you have this thing called an economy which generates money.

Just like back during the Great Depression? I thought you would have heard of that.

The economy doesn't always generate money.

 

[Vicki]

Ummm, smart question! you have this thing called an economy which generates money.

Just like back during the Great Depression? I thought you would have heard of that.

The economy doesn't always generate money.

 

[WatTyler]

Ha, I don't need to go back that far. Try 2009, or the past quarter of 2012 in the UK. I'd actually edited that post before you posted, but must've been after you quoted. The fact is that the economy has produced and increased since the industrial revolution. There are a few cyclical bumps in the road, but the net effect is positive, and will be all the time we're undergoing a kind of Boserupian expansion.

You started this conversation with this paragraph. To me, it was like you were implying that the other 25% don't work hard. So, yes, I took that personally, and went from there.

You totally misconstrued my point. If you read it again I said "the other 75% OF hardworking people" my point being that often they work just as hard as the upper quartile earners, and just maybe lack talent or opportunity. There is a perception that the top earners are the hardest working which is patently untrue.

 

[Venomous]

I have four kids and a wife. Last year, to make ends meet without a struggle, I had to work a lot of overtime. My overtime was taxed 42%, which is absolutely absurd! I paid over $37k in taxes and only received $8k back from my income tax this year. I made over a $100k and still felt like I was struggling. Ca state tax was high as well. So Who gives the right to the IRS to tax almost 50% of the money I worked overtime for to offset the tax they took from me just working normal hours? Yet again, corporations and upper class income get away with less taxes...

The system is severely broken...

 

[t-dub]

To bring this conversation back around a bit I submit this for thought: We can all see now that our tax system is progressive. Yes we can bend the curve a little so the rich pay a little more BUT it is NOT going to be anywhere near enough money to pay for it all. In case you guys have forgotten I will repost this, go watch the #'s spin a while. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TAXES TO MAKE UP $49,000/SECOND!!! When interest rates go up, and they will, the payments on the debt immediately become unaffordable, and MOST of the debt is SHORT term rolling over within the next 3 years . . .

http://usdebtclock.org/

The last time the corporate USA went bankrupt was back in 1933. Many people do not know that the birth certificates of the American people were offered up as collateral for our debt. Now the government is moving on to our federal lands and resources . . . clicky VVV



Sleep well fellow slaves . . .

 

[t-dub]

Wow . . . listen to the crickets chirp on this one . . . sorry folks its all true. If you would like to learn the difference between a right and a privilege, certificate of title and ALLODIAL title (you don't really own half the things you think you do), why the flag in your courtroom has fringe on it (no its not just decoration, this goes back to the Romans) you might wanna watch this:

http://archive.org/details/Michael_Badnarik

Micheal Badnarik is a constitutional expert and iconoclast. You may recognize his name since he has run for president a few times. His class is 7+ hours long, and I watch it EVERY 4th of July. Just the first hour alone is amazing. You won't believe what you don't know.

Edit: Want to know why all rights are derived from private property? Watch and learn.

 

[t-dub]

....I was at the ones in s.f.....I support the immigrant community....I'm NOT a liberal.....radical, would probably be the word that best describes me.... .(I'm the radical your mother told you to beware of)

Here is a video that shows exactly what these "radicals" in SF are doing 4/30/2012. Judge for yourselves.

 

[Tea Party]

That shit may have flown in 2000 but hard working people are getting fed up with those types... And with obama fanning class warfare flames it won't end well.

 

[Vicki]

That shit may have flown in 2000 but hard working people are getting fed up with those types...

Which video did you watch?

 

[Tea Party]

I'm talking about the black boc fuck sticks. They go around and smash up small business as well as large corporate buildings. They fuck up the cars that people who pay 6 figures worth of taxes...

I'd love to see them pull a stunt like that in say texas....
The mayor of oakland is to blame. she wlcome occupy fuckers and then black bloc comes.

Fummy though they try to break reinforced windows with 1x2's. The capitalists can affod sledge hammers

 

[Vicki]

Ok, fair enough.

Everyone should watch the video t-dub posted by Michael Badnarik. I've only started watching it, but it is very eye opening!

 

[Vicki]

Here is a video that shows exactly what these "radicals" in SF are doing 4/30/2012. Judge for yourselves.

The behavior of the people in this video is disgusting. They are going around destroying EVERYTHING. IMO, these people are complete low life's.

 

[Tea Party]

I don't understand what oakland police get paid for now. They should just shoot those people. They contribute nothing to society.

They are all about no government but if you pulled a gun on one they'd be quick to call the police.