Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)

[Tea Party]

They did not target only the rich, or the rich people's property. They targeted EVERYONE.

Why should the rich be targeted in the first fucking place?

 

[Vicki]

Why should the rich be targeted in the first fucking place?

I did not say that they should. I was just pointing out a fact to support my case, that it was nothing more than random violence at a riot.

 

[Venomous]

It is artificial in the sense that we are not a poor country all of a sudden. We're still a very rich country. Things could change tomorrow if Congress wanted it to. We have everything we need to manufacture here in the US. The only reason we aren't, is because the US is not favorable to that kind of business.

About the fender...like I said, that's just something I heard(on the radio). They also talked about what you said. The fender costs so much to ship, because it is big and bulky, not necessarily heavy.

I still think its a crisis. I suggest you read up on how much debt is being absorbed by china. Everyone fears a war with north Korea. The reality is, it will be with China.. Thanks to Bill Clinton... But bush did have his finger on the bow that was tied to seal th deal. Had Clinton not even entertained the thought of getting in bed with china, 3/4 of our economic issues wouldnt exist. this is why Ann Coulter supports her statements in why democrats are communists. They go out of their way to support them....

China killed our manufacturing process by involving cheap labor... This has allowed China's copying to go mainstream..iPhone's were a very popular copy commodity just a few years ago. China also lacks a lot of integrity. For instance, it wouldn't be hard to get manufacturing processes from a china plant of a known product in the USA and duplicate it, then sell it. It's happening now and eBay is the biggest etailer of it. Nothing is safe in the country of china when it comes to any trade secrets of a product. I bet, if you wanted to copy the vapexhale, it too would be easily obtainable with the right connection.

I couldn't see anyone in congress allowing another country to take jobs and money from the American people on purpose... Just because, we're not known for manufacturing. Some of the best furniture ever made came from US factories... Not to mention steel and concrete. "Hi, we're apple.. We have 400 billion in profit because we use slave labor in china, harboring our money off shore and selling our shit to you overpriced. No, we will not manufacture here because it would dig into our record breaking profits and would have to pay ur fair share in American taxes" Obama, looked the other way when confronting Steve Jobs.. karma's a bitch Steve, rip...

Fuck these guys...

 

[Venomous]

Why should the rich be targeted in the first fucking place?

Do you think the rich pay equal taxes of the everyday middle class? Who th fuck are you kidding... Look at all of their bullshit bogus write off's for one... The rich continue to get richer because they never pay their fair share. Middle class keeps the taxes flowing to the gov... The rich get underneath it by creating different companies and writing off false losses.

 

[Venomous]

Radicals are good for only one thing.... Being made an example of.. Do you know what happened during the LA riots in 1992 to black radicals? Radicals found themselves shot and killed by Korean shop owners for stealing their merchandise. At some point,you need to protect what's yours just out of basic principal. Materialistic or not, it's yours and you have the right to protect what's yours. You make a few examples out of a few radical assholes, the word gets around and the bullshit stops. Saw it with my own eyes in Los Angeles. Martial Law is a beautiful thing when exercised appropriately.

 

[Vicki]

Radicals are good for only one thing.... Being made an example of.. Do you know what happened during the LA riots in 1992 to black radicals? Radicals found themselves shot and killed by Korean shop owners for stealing their merchandise. At some point,you need to protect what's yours just out of basic principal. Materialistic or not, it's yours and you have the right to protect what's yours. You make a few examples out of a few radical assholes, the word gets around and the bullshit stops. Saw it with my own eyes in Los Angeles. Martial Law is a beautiful thing when exercised appropriately.

This is exactly one of the points I was trying to get across to people, thank you!. People will protect what little they have. Even mild tempered people have a breaking point.

 

[Tea Party]

creating different companies

I wonder what those create....

The top 1% pays for 25-30% of the country.

 

[2clicker]

If expensive shit wasn't used for status symbols, there wouldn't be any expensive shit.

i suppose in some cases. but most stuff that cost more usually cost more is because it cost more to make it. its made with higher quality components, materials, ingredients etc... however some people will buy it purely because its expensive and then think they are cool and more important than others.

i dont drink good beer because its cool or more expensive. i pay for it and drink it because it tastes better to me. its worth the extra funds because of the high quality ingredients and love that goes into it. i would think that even it a society w/out "status" that there would still be a variety of options avaialble at different price ranges.

I agree, people can be very materialistic. What bothers me is that they were destroying everything. They weren't even going after the people that pissed them off! They were breaking everything they could find and spray painting AVERAGE cars, probably driven by average people, but definitely innocent bystanders. They did not target only the rich, or the rich people's property. They targeted EVERYONE.

i agree that it totally sucks that some people had their stuff destroyed. but what Wat was saying is very valid IMO. the reason for the uprise is far more important than stuff that can be replaced. life is definitely not fair. if everything was fair there wouldnt have been a protest/riot in the first place. but people will make their voice heard if they are upset enough. even if that means disregard for others. its our nature. it just happens. i love the idea of fair, but its just an idea. nature isnt fair and we are just nature.

 

[2clicker]

At some point,you need to protect what's yours just out of basic principal. Materialistic or not, it's yours and you have the right to protect what's yours.

um no im sorry, but you do NOT have the right to use deadly force to protect materials.

protect your family, friends, and pets sure, but not stuff.

that is so wrong.

if you wanna protect your stuff then pull up your boot straps and go fist fight them. leave the gun at home. no material shit is worth a life sorry.

 

[Vicki]

um no im sorry, but you do NOT have the right to use deadly force to protect materials.

protect your family, friends, and pets sure, but not stuff.

that is so wrong.

if you wanna protect your stuff then pull up your boot straps and go fist fight them. leave the gun at home. no material shit is worth a life sorry.

People may not have the right, but they will start doing it. People will protect what little they have from some random stranger that wants to take it away for no good reason. I've heard it said many times, even here in this thread.

The rioters DO NOT have the right to destroy innocent people's property, but they do it anyway. Those innocent people DO NOT have the right to retaliate, but they will do it anyway.

 

[2clicker]

People may not have the right, but they will start doing it. People will protect what little they have from some random stranger that wants to take it away for no good reason. I've heard it said many times, even here in this thread.

The rioters DO NOT have the right to destroy innocent people's property, but they do it anyway. Those innocent people DO NOT have the right to retaliate, but they will do it anyway.

retaliate or kill? im all for retaliation. protect your stuff by all means, but dont kill someone over it. in the long run you will be very sorry you did. trust me. its just not worth it.

ignorance followed by yet even more ignorance

this is fun

 

[Vicki]

retaliate or kill? im all for retaliation. protect your stuff by all means, but dont kill someone over it. in the long run you will be very sorry you did. trust me. its just not worth it.

ignorance followed by yet even more ignorance

this is fun

Um, more than once in this thread, I said NOT ME, but other people will do this. This is NOT a joke to me, and not fun in anyway. I was reiterating my previous comments I made in this thread for you. I never once said I would or could do it. I'm not ignorant. Maybe I should go back and re-read those particular posts and copy and paste for you.......or you could just go back and read for yourself.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, it was Tea Party (no surprise here) that said that they should be shot.

 

[Venomous]

I wonder what those create....

The top 1% pays for 25-30% of the country.

Where are you getting your source for this 1%...

 

[Venomous]

um no im sorry, but you do NOT have the right to use deadly force to protect materials.

protect your family, friends, and pets sure, but not stuff.

that is so wrong.

if you wanna protect your stuff then pull up your boot straps and go fist fight them. leave the gun at home. no material shit is worth a life sorry.

Bullshit, when it comes to rioting that the police have no control of, the martial law flag gets raised... You then have the right to protect your property with deadly force, including your life. The only caveat to this is... It needs to be on your own property. You cant walk out into the street like dirty Harry and gun them down.

Have you personally ever been in the middle of a riot before? Judging by your response, seems the only experience you have with it is from what Hollywood has created for your tv... The reality is... You will most likely be hanging from your boots straps from a tree when they are done with you.

 

[2clicker]

i said "you do NOT have the right to use deadly force to protect materials"

and you said:

People may not have the right, but they will start doing it. People will protect what little they have from some random stranger that wants to take it away for no good reason.

because of that i assumed we were on the same page. i was just saying that no matter what materials people take from you IMO taking a life will not fix anything. it will make them worse.

and i was not calling you ignorant. my apologies if thats how it sounded/read. i was saying that retaliating with deadly force to those who are destroying your shit is ignorance followed by more ignorance. the first ignorance was for the destroying of shit, the second being the murder. i never intended to say you are ignorant.

again im sorry if it came off wrong.

 

[Vicki]

Bullshit, when it comes to rioting that the police have no control of, the martial law flag gets raised... You then have the right to protect your property with deadly force, including your life. The only caveat to this is... It needs to be on your own property. You cant walk out into the street like dirty Harry and gun them down.

Is this true? Can anyone verify please? A Wiki article or link maybe? Thank you.


****Edit--I went and copied and pasted this from the Wiki article about "Marshall Law:"


Typically, the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews, the suspension of civil law, civil rights, habeas corpus, and the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians. Civilians defying martial law may be subjected to military tribunal (court-martial).


Would being able to defend your property with deadly force fall under the suspension of "civil law," and "civil rights?"

 

[2clicker]

Bullshit, when it comes to rioting that the police have no control of, the martial law flag gets raised... You then have the right to protect your property with deadly force, including your life. The only caveat to this is... It needs to be on your own property. You cant walk out into the street like dirty Harry and gun them down.

is this decided on a state level or is it federal?

so if your car was parked on your driveway and it was say being tipped over or lit on fire that you could go outside and blast away? or only items within your house?

 

[Venomous]

retaliate or kill? im all for retaliation. protect your stuff by all means, but dont kill someone over it. in the long run you will be very sorry you did. trust me. its just not worth it.

ignorance followed by yet even more ignorance

this is fun

Depends on the situation... If its a riot and they are breaking Into your home or car, you have all means of using deadly force. Once the police have no control of the situation, game on.

 

[t-dub]

Civil Emergency changes everything.

During normal times, in Oregon we have a form of "castle law" that allows us to use deadly force if someone breaks into our house and we "feel threatened". But if that same burglar grabs a radio and heads out the front door, no longer a threat, and I shoot him in the back to prevent the material theft, then I am in BIG trouble, probably guilty of some degree of murder. Which seems reasonable to me. Taking another human life, even if you were justified, would have to be something that would torment you for the rest of your days I would think.

 

[lwien]

This is mandated by state law. I don't believe that it is legal to use deadly force to protect your property in most states. In most states, deadly force is only legal if your life is being threatened. It doesn't count if your car's life is being threatened.

 

[2clicker]

Once the police have no control of the situation, game on.

game on? yikes. ill bet there are people who just wish some shit like this would go down so they could "protect" their stuff.

This is mandated by state law. I don't believe that it is legal to use deadly force to protect your property in most states. In most states, deadly force is only legal if your life is being threatened. It doesn't count if your car's life is being threatened.

agreed. i suppose it would be an interesting to find out the differences between the states... if there is much.

Civil Emergency changes everything. In Oregon we have a form of "castle law" that allows us to use deadly force if someone breaks into our house and we "feel threatened". But if that same burglar grabs a radio and heads out the front door, no longer a threat, and I shoot him in the back to prevent the material theft, then I am in BIG trouble, probably guilty of some degree of murder. Which seems reasonable to me. Taking another human life, even if you were justified, would have to be something that would torment you for the rest of your days I would think.

that sounds like most states. and your right about the torment. fortunately ive never been in a position to have to defend myself to that degree, but have people close to me who have. justified situations by far, but that doesnt matter. its very powerful shit.

 

[Vicki]

i said "you do NOT have the right to use deadly force to protect materials"

and you said:


because of that i assumed we were on the same page. i was just saying that no matter what materials people take from you IMO taking a life will not fix anything. it will make them worse.

and i was not calling you ignorant. my apologies if thats how it sounded/read. i was saying that retaliating with deadly force to those who are destroying your shit is ignorance followed by more ignorance. the first ignorance was for the destroying of shit, the second being the murder. i never intended to say you are ignorant.

again im sorry if it came off wrong.

I can understand that. Maybe we both misunderstood each other. I'm sorry if I confused you. I was just trying to point out how both will react if this keeps happening. The rioters will keep doing this kind of rioting, with no regard to anyone's property. The victims will eventually get sick of it. People like some people in this thread, and people like them will start killing the rioters for it. Then things could really get out of control. Violence begets violence. This kind of rioting does not make people want to listen to them.

 

[Venomous]

is this decided on a state level or is it federal?

so if your car was parked on your driveway and it was say being tipped over or lit on fire that you could go outside and blast away? or only items within your house?

Only 18 states have martial laws written into their state constitution. Congress has never exercised martial law themselves however. Once the local gov loses control of safety and security of their city, martial law is impacted and the government steps in usually with the national guard first. Hopefully they learned from the los Angeles riots in 1992 where we saw the national guard given their m16s but they were never given ammo... Whoops

If you walked outside to your driveway and theynweremflipping your car over and ifmitmwas kit on fire, you could blast away... Most likely, you would get fucked up pretty bad even attempting to stop.. But when you have a gun, shit changes quickly.

I saw several people shot while breaking into people's businesses... They don't teach you much about martial law in the academy. What I can tell you from first hand experience is, our chief, lieutenants and sergeants were not a bit concerned with people killing others in the presence of law enforcement during these riots. Not one person was ever convicted for it. I know thre was 11 people killed during the 5 day riot... As far as what was documented.. But um, I would say that number was really closer to 50 just based on the amount of bodies I saw laying on various sidewalks..

 

[Venomous]

Civil Emergency changes everything. In Oregon we have a form of "castle law" that allows us to use deadly force if someone breaks into our house and we "feel threatened". But if that same burglar grabs a radio and heads out the front door, no longer a threat, and I shoot him in the back to prevent the material theft, then I am in BIG trouble, probably guilty of some degree of murder. Which seems reasonable to me. Taking another human life, even if you were justified, would have to be something that would torment you for the rest of your days I would think.

Yeah that's pretty standard. Infact, their doesn't need to be a civil emergency. If a person is fleeing from your property regardless if they stole anything from you, they are no longer considered a threat any longer.

In ca.. I'll tell you a fucked up deadly force law scenerio. Someone breaks into your house or is attempting to... You can shoot them. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, you're up shit creek. NOW... If the person is breaking into your car and they have a weapon, you have to WAIT until they are physically in the car before exercising deadly force.