Discontinued Loto Labs Lux (formerly Evoke)

[Egzoset]

Hi there PPN!

...0.1 alone.

Using 0.75 g i felt i had reached a practical limit; it would be bad enough at just half the weight, but you're in conduction mode...

Tried again to add more metal mass... The unit flash red (low battery) when there is still a lot of power...

Maybe you can hope to raise both battery-charge longevity and bowl capacity but i wonder if the gained margin would be worth such efforts while i keep thinking it's the delivery site that needs to be matched more efficiently.

...2 susceptors... ...still on stock settings.

At least it didn't cancel the show... Got to wonder with 3 susceptors!



But then what if the vial gets filled with too much metal and too little noble molecules, eventually!?

I'm thinking to use a inhalater glass capsule with a small load and a diy susceptor in order to get the air heated by susceptor before to hit the flowers...

Dry like sugar sounds great for preliminaries...

Large bowls ain't an option as melted material gradually causes airflow restriction, forming a cake layer that will require frequent stirring as i imagine.

...I'll try to keep some distance between susceptor and load in order to minimize conduction...

Or perhaps consider distributing conduction heat until it no longer bakes single spots anymore. How about rings, or the bottom of a metal capsule inside a glass vial. To radiate and conduct heat towards the center instead of the other way around. Or who knows, Loto Labs verified that it was a dead end already. Fingers crossed, they've been on it for so long, after all!...

Actually i still fear the energy budget just doesn't allow much creativity. Lets wish that's nothing insoluble!

...was thinking to use a mesh pad as a susceptor or some ss316 wire...

How about a short wire section rolled into a planar spiral? With a tiny slice of "Health Stone" to provide a barrier delaying burns long enough for the intended urpose...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[butts]

Are you guys getting shipping info or do they just show up?

I was sent a Google form to confirm my shipping address and then got an email from Loto with my FedEx tracking number. Didnt get mine yet, but they shipped it Monday

 

[PPN]

Actually i still fear the energy budget just doesn't allow much creativity. Lets wish that's nothing insoluble!

Do you mean a new battery technology could offer the missing power? in 18650?

How about a short wire section rolled into a planar spiral? With a tiny slice of "Health Stone" to provide a barrier delaying burns long enough for the intended urpose..

Since the very small room it will be a very difficult task .... or maybe Something like the Nomad heater, a sort of thin sheet of stainless steel rolled.... I'm thinking the "susceptor" have to be long enough to catch all induction effect , my last tests using a mesh pad placed in the bottom end without the long susceptor doesn't seems to work. I think the provided susceptor catch most of induction in some tiny place and redistribute the heat by conduction , so susceptor have to get some mass but some height too.

Still not put my hands on a smartphone for the App....

 

[grokit]

Fucking fedex. My evoke moved from state to state along the west coast (seriously like four stops in four days), then they mailed it from washington to alaska. At least their tracking has improved so I know. Their estimate is for week after next but I expect it sooner. Because they turned it over to the post office.

Honestly. They could've mailed it from the start right?
It would probably be here by now...

 

[Razor]

Happy to say I finally got mine. I received the loose leaf receptor and capsule as well but im not sure how to use it yet. I'm happy to say that concentrates work really well. I havent used the app yet and I can get pretty good clouds without issue. Great clean flavor too. Would I pay 400 dollars for it? No. Will I be keeping mine? Oh hell yeah.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again PPN,

Do you mean a new battery technology could offer...

It's little more that a simple intuition but i wouldn't expect improved power-density to offer any significant gains except battery-charge longevity, not to mention the odds against finding a satisfying solution that solves it all. Sorry for having to rely on my instincts but i won't be surprized should the "safety" features actually happen to interfere with such e-Cig size kind of modding anyway.

In any case i'd strongly advise contacting the manufacturer directly over such issue:

Loto Labs​

Last seen February 12, 2018. YMMV.

Lets see if any guy in their team is ready to face a bidirectional dialog. No doubt their early supporters would appreciate some related input being contributed right here where Loto Labs solicitated crowd-funding - and got it!

...very small room... ...maybe something like the Nomad heater, a sort of thin sheet of stainless steel rolled...

Perhaps a micro-punctured metal band emulating what i envision as the ultimate contact-surface in 3D:

​

Unfortunately that's "foamed aluminium" and its cells would be quite too large, but my point is that i'd favour a 3D material which is permeable in *ALL* directions, while providing more heat-exchange sites for less mass... Ideally (because there's a paradox trying to heat best while minimizing contact with metal surfaces, taste-wise).

I'm thinking the "susceptor" have to be long enough to catch all induction effect...

Lets assume that is correct, then i'd advise rolling your SS316 screen in order to create a tubular cavity from where the inner conduit can supply somewhat pre-heated fresh-air. But the vial is tiny and brittle, while experimentation may require it's fair share of trial & error... On top of that i believed 3 batteries and a 3-Phase IH driver would be more appropriate - and i still do!



By chance there appear to be alternatives to dry flower bowls. e-Cig style i guess...

Still not put my hands on a smartphone for the App....

Software emulation is the only option that i can imagine besides the real thing, Androïd is just another OS after all.:

Google Search: Androïd LiveCD​

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Razor]

Been playin with it. The battery seems to charge pretty quickly. I havent used a stronger one with it yet. I just used the bluetooth app to change the top temp setting to 100% (i believe the default was 68%) and I'm getting nice thick clouds now. Syncing the two was very simple and the controls consist of two dials. I really like how it is solid metal. It is very well built. I think I've definitely found a very good concentrate device. I still wouldnt buy it for the current price point, but it is very good and I'm glad that I got it for 80 bucks.

 

[Krazy]

Fucking fedex. My evoke moved from state to state along the west coast (seriously like four stops in four days), then they mailed it from washington to alaska.

I'v had that happen before with FedX. Back in the days of SilkRoad my imaginary evil twin sister had something ship from Canada to the US. Between Canada post and FedX it went coast to coast and back up north before finally getting to the desert SW.

 

[Razor]

I like it more and more every time I use it. Feels very heavy in the hand and I've had about 400 compliments about it already.

 

[dingus]

Wonder when I'll receive mine? I'm one of the first supporters too. After months of no updates and frustration, I posted Neeraj's information from the whois database (his address and phone number that he made public domain) on the indiegogo comments section as well as information from their former partner on them running out of money and jumping ship, and he banned me from posting and wouldn't return my 2 e-mails.

My degeneracy cost me 70 dollars . And I suppose stupidity too for even investing in this vaporware of a talking piece.

 

[butts]

Wonder when I'll receive mine? I'm one of the first supporters too. After months of no updates and frustration, I posted Neeraj's information from the whois database (his address and phone number that he made public domain) on the indiegogo comments section as well as information from their former partner on them running out of money and jumping ship, and he banned me from posting and wouldn't return my 2 e-mails.

My degeneracy cost me 70 dollars . And I suppose stupidity too for even investing in this vaporware of a talking piece.

What number were you in line? I was order 226. If you go on IndieGoGo you can check yours out. Mine shipped last Monday, if yours is higher I wouldn't worry just yet. Then again, he got extremely ignorant with me when I asked him why there were no longer water piper adapters included (an early perk) and pretty much called me stupid for not understanding how the design and manufacturing process sometimes has changes. Seems like a man with a temper

I like it more and more every time I use it. Feels very heavy in the hand and I've had about 400 compliments about it already.

I can't wait to get my hands on mine. How much are you loading in the bowl? I saw someone say a rice sized amount? Do you think there would be any issue with shatter and crumble versus wax because of how it will cover the metal?

 

[PPN]

Then again, he got extremely ignorant with me when I asked him why there were no longer water piper adapters included (an early perk) and pretty much called me stupid for not understanding how the design and manufacturing process sometimes has changes.

Really that's not nice!

In my experience it's better to load a bit more but it will work.

edit: I get better clouds and medication after each new session still using stock settings, maybe it will get its place in my rotation. And I want to add it's a very good device for rosin with some impurities cause you can clean everything toroughly, more I use it more I like it!

 

[SameOldTim]

Wonder when I'll receive mine? I'm one of the first supporters too. After months of no updates and frustration, I posted Neeraj's information from the whois database (his address and phone number that he made public domain) on the indiegogo comments section as well as information from their former partner on them running out of money and jumping ship, and he banned me from posting and wouldn't return my 2 e-mails.

My degeneracy cost me 70 dollars . And I suppose stupidity too for even investing in this vaporware of a talking piece.

Sounds on par.

 

[Krazy]

Anyone tried it with Rosin?

 

[Razor]

Ive tried it with just about every type of concentrate. I'm actually thinking I would like this to get a bit hotter. I have it on 100% through the app and although it does get me pretty good and toasty, I'm getting quite a bit left over still. Has anyone used a stronger battery with it yet? What were your results?

Wouldnt the septer thing be better if it were flat and more on the bottom as well as coming up through the middle? Llike a flat plunger.. for concentrate at least I mean. It seems it would make sense to have it in contact with it as much as possible. I wonder if it would be possile to flattin one a little..

 

[cbdprospector]

Got mine in yesterday, order number 248. I am impressed that they actually sent it, I thought for sure I was out $78. ....not very impressed with the device. The dry herb attachment is a fail, I have been able to get a rosin hit by cranking the device up all the way up with a long preheat.

 

[Razor]

I tried the herb today. I hope they have a temperature setting in the future for it because I combusted pretty quick. I do have it set to 100% though. I got one hit of vapor and then I got taste like it was burning. It wasnt overpowering or harsh though. Just tasted like a joint. I'm not sure if there is something there or not but i definitely did get a nice hit of vapor on the first go. I packed the shit out of it because i figured its going to be somewhat like a conduction vape. I packed it tight so the heat wouldnt escape which seemed to work on the first puff but the second was combustion.

I'm still very happy with the concentrate side. I went through some rosin last night. so is it possible to get vapor out of it? Yes... is it worth loading the little cartridge over and over? noooooooooo. The learning curve on it is pretty high too. Pulsing the button would probably be the way to go. The glass capsule for herb does stay hot for a long time after use too so there is a good deal of heat retention in there.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations PPN,
Salutations everybody,

...thinking the "susceptor" have to be long enough to catch all induction effect...

This comment inspired another question of mine lately... Though lets have some multi-media 1st!

...a video that should illustrate the idea that magnetic coupling/shielding is no trivial matter in our particularily special context:

YouTube: Induction heating coil - improving RF performance with magnetic flux concentrator Fluxtrol Video - (2009-Jul-8)

It's about some ready-made flux concentrator that gets "cured" (hardened) in an oven once being given a desired shape. IMO only the Loto Labs manufacturer can provide suitable explanations relatively to this important subject.

Any reasons not to? After all, the product is already patented, right?...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Razor]

If they change the design, they have to start the process all over. Patents are for the specific shape as well as the makeup. I'm not sure this is any longer the correct time to be re designing their products.

I think currently, we should stay on target by reviewing what they have put out and how we can with what we have now can improve its use.

How do you like your unit overall there Egzoset?

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Razor,

I like it more and more every time I use it.

So it must feel like being on the edge?... The razor-edge!...

How is it being a pioneer?! Enjoy the fun, personally i was never tempted to trust such "happy" ending could even actually occur. That was some gamble, you won the day!!

I'm happy to say that concentrates work really well. ... Will I be keeping mine? Oh hell yeah. ... ...i believe the default was 68%... ...nice thick clouds now. ... I really like how it is solid metal. It is very well built. ...got it for 80 bucks.

Great optimism! Please consider expressing more in picture(s)!

Congratulations for the bargain, exception made of its associated delays!...

Ive tried it with just about every type of concentrate. ... Wouldnt the septer thing be better if it were flat and more on the bottom as well as coming up through the middle? Like a flat plunger.. for concentrate... I'm still very happy with the concentrate side. ... Pulsing the button would probably be the way to go.

The "septer thing" is a susceptor, right? Or briefly put: a wireless heater element...

I tried the herb today. ... ...seemed to work on the first puff but the second was combustion. ... The learning curve on it is pretty high too. ... If they change the design, they have to start the process all over.

Go back to when i wrote about:

...inclusion of electrical contacts in their wireless design!!

Perhaps Loto labs kept a few doors opened for future easy-upgrades, try asking the "team"! All i can suggest is a possibility their firmware will account for a significant change of inductance in case of flux concentrating applications, with the modular coil assembly made of some corresponding magnetic material. Given the large difference in relative masses it should still remain an option to pre-heat the IH core while leaving the rest relatively neutral. I for one would be most curious to see what side the trade-off balance goes between battery-charge longevity vs workload energy requirements.



There again, i suppose the company explored such scenarios if they ever felt these considerations did need to be addressed seriously after all. Sorry but you'll have to ask whoever wants to answer for Loto labs! I'm simply suggesting a few questions for the curious mind...



Good day, have fun!!

 

[Gardenerjeff]

Wow! It is here!! Mine arrived. Holy shit!

Build is solid. It feels good in the hand. Mouth piece not sitting fully flush but all else very well done to be fair!

Tried with flower. Learning curve to fill and pack. Not bad. No resistance. Learning curve on intake speed and strength of draw. Good taste! Combusted after a session so set temp with app.

I can see this being a beast with wax. I would not pay 399 for a flower vape.

Teaming

Gardenerjeff

More testing

 

[Razor]

Salutations Razor,



So it must feel like being on the edge?... The razor-edge!...

How is it being a pioneer?! Enjoy the fun, personally i was never tempted to trust such "happy" ending could even actually occur. That was some gamble, you won the day!!





Great optimism! Please consider expressing more in picture(s)!

Congratulations for the bargain, exception made of its associated delays!...





The "septer thing" is a susceptor, right? Or briefly put: a wireless heater element...



Go back to when i wrote about:



Perhaps Loto labs kept a few doors opened for future easy-upgrades, try asking the "team"! All i can suggest is a possibility their firmware will account for a significant change of inductance in case of flux concentrating applications, with the modular coil assembly made of some corresponding magnetic material. Given the large difference in relative masses it should still remain an option to pre-heat the IH core while leaving the rest relatively neutral. I for one would be most curious to see what side the trade-off balance goes between battery-charge longevity vs workload energy requirements.



There again, i suppose the company explored such scenarios if they ever felt these considerations did need to be addressed seriously after all. Sorry but you'll have to ask whoever wants to answer for Loto labs! I'm simply suggesting a few questions for the curious mind...



Good day, have fun!!

I'm not sure all of this needed to be said again..

That would more likely be questions you should be sending the people that make this vape. They do answer questions by mail. They dont answer here so these speculations would help them better if they were to hear them themselves.

"How is it being a pioneer?! Enjoy the fun, personally i was never tempted to trust such "happy" ending could even actually occur. That was some gamble, you won the day!!"

Thats exactly what kick starter like websites are. A gamble. I knew that going in.

Anyways, I've been playing with the dry herb attachment. If you go into the app and set it down to 70% and use a pulsing action, the herb chamber works much better. It needs a lower temp to heat up with and then a build up of vapor before you get going. A pretty large learning curve for sure to get the pulsing right.

The battery seems be conditioning itself maybe? I seem to be getting a longer session before recharge now on the one batt. I still havent used another one with it yet. It's not going to replace anything else I have but it remains a fun device to use and an excellent conversation piece.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again Razor,

I'm not sure all of this needed to be said again...

Oh yes, indeed. I, for one, find that most appropriate, on the contrary. Anyway just a few posts back i noticed that more feedback was announced, is it not?

Or is that a bad mood day? I'd find capitulation somewhat premature, don't we agree?



More questions keep popping up on my side, as for my private correspondance with Loto Labs it was interrupted years ago for reasons i have no right to reveal in public since it's private mail, exactly. My only concern is inherited from topics which were hardly debated in 2010 when i wrote about induction heat for the 1st time on FC, weeks if not days after i registered, as i recall.

...these speculations would help them better if they were to hear them themselves.

Now, i'm getting worried!

How would one ever assume i'm here for Loto Labs given the written context?? Or is this intended as censorship?... Or just basically getting personal?? After "briefing" via PM in the background i guess?...

Don't worry as those are only questions.

...I've been playing with the dry herb attachment.

Indeed, that's what i'm here for. To receive this valuable input from a 1st-person perspective - and it's clear i do have more thoughts of my own to express, if you don't mind.

...down to 70%... ...build up... ...pretty large learning curve... ...get the pulsing right. ... ...remains a fun device to use and an excellent conversation piece.

It's a feat to find we agree at least on the last point about the importance of sharing the fun, though i can't seem to feel your enthousiams. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day, do not despair...



While i'm around i'd like to add some perspective of my own, the workload to begin with:

​

This is shreaded dry-flower material and here's what's the vaporist challenge alike, as far as i'm concerned. It's about how are we supposed to maximize energy transfer to trichome glands while minimizing dispersion to surrounding vegetal substrate... Motivation to do so is potential access to the most "bio" cannabic workload that pro-cannabic consumers can possibly dream of: the shortest path of least transformation!

Imagine your favourite dry cannabis being sorted on a molecular basis, at a scale where some vesicles located at the base of each trichome gland take an active part to their genesis, in situ! That's way beyond ape-age "filltration" and all its unnecessary manipulations. Consider how pure the "sugar" shall prove to be when perfectly cured, using true "bio". YMMV but that should be quite a treat IMHO.



In any case that's a mission requiring an energy source with some more puch and yet not necessarily an energy budget to waste as futile heat losses, vegetal substrate baking for example, etc.

Too bad but i don't need or feel like contacting Loto Labs in hope this may help to understand the severe trade-offs endorsed by that particularily mute manufacturer, starting with conduction mode - and that's no "speculation". Loto Labs proved it could talk for itself.



About a "pumping" action i suppose it's worth a try, but when it comes to "pulse" mode i've got something radically different in mind which i've tagged "Packetized" and "Micro-Bursting", among other aspects... Packetized in the sense of "quanta", which means the overall heat charge is divided in smaller packets (or bursts) that can be handled within all heat-tolerance ranges by taking advantage of delay barriers preventing instantaneous heat diffusion (e.g. relatively slow thermalization). As for "Bursting" it's about doing more with less, or « Divide to Conquer »...



Take note how large the shreaded vegetal tissue happens to be compared to a single crystalized trichome gland... Is that not an opportunity hardly compatible with slow conduction heat?...

Alternately, does the Loto Labs handy IH generator absolutely exclude future conversions to a mix of radiative/convective heat, eventually? Sorry to bring it back, 'cause i'm afraid if the manufacturer failed to explore such stimulating matters successfully in a matter of years then what's the point hoping for a change of attitude after a few months?... Sounds like "wishful thinking" to me, YMMV.



Nothing personal, those are questions i could have asked in 2010, when i wondered myself. No review to expect from me, or is it mandatory to post in this pioneer IH-dedicated thread??

One way or another i still got to ask if energy bursts can be generated that match workload requirements as illustrated above. E. G. melt the goodies starting with their contact-surface 1st, no need to bake everything.

I'm convinced Electro-Magnetic Induction Heat supports these options, it's a matter of trade-offs as you've demonstrated yourself.



Good day, have fun!!

 

[Gardenerjeff]

After a full day. Junk. No good. Too complicated to load for such poor results...sorry
Loto labs. Does not meet my standards for even weekly use.

Teaming

Gardenerjeff

 

[PPN]

Is somebody can post a pic of the dry herb attachment, please? My units didn't came with it...