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Grass Yes

Yes
Staff member
In 2022, fentanyl was responsible for 200 deaths every day. Over a quarter of a million Americans have died from a fentanyl overdose since 2018. In 2022, 73,654 people died from a fentanyl overdose in the US, more than double the amount of deaths from three years prior in 2019.

There is nearly nothing to connect the seizure that you mentioned to border crossings. This is a quote from the press release from the DEA linked in that article:
Of the 390 cases investigated during this period, 51 cases are linked to overdose poisonings and 35 cases link directly to one or both of the primary Mexican cartels
So literally fewer than 10% could even link to these supposed source of the problem.

As someone who is on a forum for cannabis, the very recent boogyman for rightwing fear mongering, I'd advise you to think critically about who is selling you this story and why.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
I never once mentioned a war. You did. Never mentioned refugees . I replied to your ignorance on fentanyl and the border .

I didn’t know how else to take you calling for regime change in Mexico.

Multiple Republican Presidential candidates are openly calling for war with Mexico. Wars create refugees.
 
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florduh,

CANtalk

Well-Known Member




:peace: :leaf:
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
This is what I was referring to:



Lately, it feels like I'm living in some bizarre time loop. The multitrillion dollar "War on Terror" saw us doing battle with our former clients, The Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Saddam Hussein . A "War on the Cartels" would be pretty similar.


 
florduh,

bulllee

Agent Provocateur
I didn’t know how else to take you calling for regime change in Mexico.

Multiple Republican Presidential candidates are openly calling for war with Mexico. Wars create refugees.
You don't know me. I'm not a republican or a presidential candidate :D. I'm independent and trust no one. Regime change can occur without the barrel of a gun . The US and Mexico trade over 1.8 Billion a day. We trade more with Mexico than all of the EU. Plenty of room to get tough economically . But no one it seems is serious about ending the crisis. While we're at it, almost all the percussor chemicals for fentanyl are made in China and Southeast Asia then smuggled to Mexico. Time to hold China accountable . Another issue is 3 to 4 % of Mexico's GDP is drug fueled, about $30 billion a year. I think if Mexico got rid of the cartels the US could afford to add a sweetheart aide deal for $30 billion a year to ease the crunch so to say.
 
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florduh

Well-Known Member
You don't know me. I'm not a republican or a presidential candidate :D.

I apologize for making assumptions. But if someone in 2002 said "we need to do régime change in Iraq" at the exact same time Bush was out there beating the war drum, I wouldn't have assumed they were talking about doing so peacefully.

We trade more with Mexico than all of the EU. Plenty of room to get tough economically . But no one it seems is serious about ending the crisis.

I mean, I think you answered your own question. There's two parties in trade. Getting tough on Mexico or China means US businesses will also lose money. The US Government exists to serve businesses.

Personally, I tend to think this shutting down supply isn't gonna solve the problem so long as there's demand. The Government tried that with weed for decades. And fentanyl is much easier to smuggle and hide than cannabis.
 

bulllee

Agent Provocateur
I apologize for making assumptions. But if someone in 2002 said "we need to do régime change in Iraq" at the exact same time Bush was out there beating the war drum, I wouldn't have assumed they were talking about doing so peacefully.



I mean, I think you answered your own question. There's two parties in trade. Getting tough on Mexico or China means US businesses will also lose money. The US Government exists to serve businesses.

Personally, I tend to think this shutting down supply isn't gonna solve the problem so long as there's demand. The Government tried that with weed for decades. And fentanyl is much easier to smuggle and hide than cannabis.
The US could withstand any trade restrictions with Mexico , and as far as China goes their in trouble at home economically right now. They can't afford to confront the US economically. If they could, they would have by now. Drastic times call for drastic measures. If the same amount of people that have died from Fentanyl died by any other means there would outrage. If you want to stop the drugs you have to get serious about it. Just wringing our hands and saying it's bad for business is defeatist .
The US Government exists to serve businesses.
:lol:

Adapting an approach used by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Joint Economic Committee estimates the opioid epidemic cost the United States nearly $1.5 trillion in 2020 alone—up 37% from 2017, when the CDC last measured the cost.


At this point how can we not afford to get tough ?
 

Canna Chameleon

Muted by mods. Run off by rudeness.
At this point how can we not afford to get tough ?
This is exactly the same issue when the ACA offered money to the states for Medicaid expansion.

It was literally free money, and every financial analysis shows preventive care is a better investment than the cost of emergency care of untreated disease.

So I can either help you pay for the annual appointment and your blood pressure meds OR I can pay when you have a stroke and show up in the ER in an ambulance and uninsured.


But politics.

 

florduh

Well-Known Member
At this point how can we not afford to get tough ?

Are you really now just discovering that American government chooses not to fix problems it would be economically smart to fix all to protect business scumbags?

For example, it would save us way more than $1.5 trillion per year to institute universal healthcare. We waste more money than any other country on healthcare for worse outcomes.


But if we did the thing that would save us trillions, the CEO of Blue Cross can't have a superyacht. So we don't. Simple as.

Same thing with homelessness. It costs the economy billions per year to have a huge homeless population. It would be cheaper to just put them all in housing. But...take away the threat of being homeless, and developers can't gouge everyone on housing. So we don't.

If you want to stop the drugs you have to get serious about it.

I am serious about it. I'm just skeptical that attacking the supply is gonna fix the problem. Because it never has with literally any other drug. You're on a weed forum, for Christ's sake.

If you want to go after Mexico and all of Asia...go for it. But in my opinion, you could turn Mexico and the entire continent of Asia into glass...Fent labs will just pop up in South America and Africa. Because there is still demand.

It will still find its way into the US and we're back to square one. We can't even keep the shit out of prisons. I doubt we're ever keeping it out of every shipping container entering our ports.

In my opinion, instead of relying solely on something that has never worked in the entire history of drugs...maybe we should institute a plan that has shown promise?


CATO Institute: Overdose Prevention Centers, A Successful Strategy for Preventing Death and Disease


If a socialist magazine and a Right Wing think tank agree on something, it might be worth looking in to.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
You libs don't understand. You have to Trust The Plan. The Kraken is about to be released.

(from 2020 :dog:)


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florduh

Well-Known Member

Officials told HuffPost that Secretary of State Antony Blinken and his most senior advisers are overlooking widespread internal frustration. Some department staff said they feel as if Blinken and his team are uninterested in their own experts’ advice as they focus on supporting Israel’s expanding operation in Gaza, where the Palestinian militant group Hamas is based.

Heartening to see that not everyone in the government is on board with Genocide Joe's full throated support for Right Wing psychopaths like Bibi Netanyahu and Itamar Ben-Gvir.

“There’s basically a mutiny brewing within State at all levels,” one State Department official said.
 
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CANtalk

Well-Known Member





I thought this would get more uptake



:peace: :leaf:
 
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florduh

Well-Known Member
what-us-do.png


Our bloodthirsty media has been doing a full court press for two weeks and these are the best numbers they could put up? Truly incredible.
 

florduh

Well-Known Member


Keep in mind, the West Bank is totally separate from Gaza. Hamas doesn't control that territory. Residents are completely at the mercy of the IDF.

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As of one week ago, the IDF says they have dropped over 6,000 bombs on Gaza. Or roughly the same number of bombs we dropped on Afghanistan in an entire year. But Gaza is only the size of Manhattan, and almost as densely populated. So I find it hard to believe only 4,000 people have died. In a territory where half the population are under 18 years old.
 
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