How did Donald Trump Win?

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BD9

Well-Known Member
This is one president who will be heavily relying on his cabinet because of his ignorance of how government works. This president will also be very, very surprised at how limited the office of president is.

The shit hasn't even begun to yet hit the fan. This presidency will be stranger than a gang of drunken mimes (Incubus reference).

@Stevenski I did take away more than this from your post, but the Fanta comment was fucking hilarious. So, thanks to @Stevenski I will now be referring to the president elect as President Elect Fanta. :rofl:
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
BERNIE SANDERS: DONALD TRUMP WON BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ABANDONED WORKING-CLASS AMERICANS
NOVEMBER 11, 2016
JohnThomas Didymus

Following the general election victory of the Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump over the Democratic Party candidate Hillary Clinton, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders has slammed the Democratic Party, saying that the party lost because it abandoned working- and middle-class Americans.
Speaking in an interview with the Associated Press, Sanders said it is an embarrassment that the Democratic Party and its presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, failed to connect with working-class Americans and that millions of historically Democratic Party-voting white working-class Americans chose to vote for Trump at the last general election.

He said that it shows that despite portraying itself as the party that champions the interests of working people, the Democratic Party failed to convince the people of its sincerity and thus lost its standing among the country’s working class.
image: http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/bernie-sanders-670x388.jpg

bernie-sanders-670x388.jpg

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders [Image by Andrew Cline/Shutterstock]
“It is an embarrassment, I think, to the […] Democratic Party that millions of white working-class people decided to vote for Mr. Trump,” Sanders told the AP. “[This] suggests that the Democratic message of standing up for working people no longer holds much sway among workers in this country.”

“You cannot be a party which on one hand says we’re in favor of working people, we’re in favor of the needs of young people but we don’t quite have the courage to take on Wall Street and the billionaire class,” he continued. “People do not believe that. You’ve got to decide which side you’re on.”

Sanders also blamed the loss on a “lack of enthusiasm” to vote amongst Democrats.

“People just did not come out to vote,” he told the AP.

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/3704542/be...-working-class-americans/#OuZAlUBxDuJtdwBD.99

Bernie still can be a guiding light to progressives, I think he would have won. That doesn't matter now because that's not reality.:leaf:

Edit
It's always an option to use the ignore button. Use self restraint and walk away.....if something is upsetting you.
 
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Baron23

Well-Known Member
Trump could not have won without the support of ignorant people who are easily swayed by propaganda (memes).

Wow, we continue to push the envelope on self-righteous elitism. Yep, all 55M of them are dummies or KKK (oh, that's right...quick google search of KKK shows an estimated 5-8k members, max).


do you deny that a vital segment of Trump's support came from folks who are uncomfortable with or flat-out against social progress?

First, just because you co-op the term social progress as a euphemism for your liberal views does not make it so. Did you take a look at this map posted by Hellswindstaff (or similar maps from a myriad of sources). Yes, much of the blue is high density population centers...but the entire rest of the fucking country (see all that red) doesn't seem to agree with you...but you seem to express that your view is equivalent to fact and your view is that they are all socially backward, regressive, stupid, ignorant racists and haters.

Perhaps I should just avoid this forum. It certainly isn't helping to improve my view of my fellow citizens.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Yes, much of the blue is high density population centers...but the entire rest of the fucking country (see all that red) doesn't seem to agree with you...but of course your view is equivalent to fact and to you they are all socially backward, regressive, stupid, ignorant racists and haters.

Ya know, what is true is that all Republicans/Conservatives are NOT racist bigots. but let me ask you this. If you came across a bonafide racist and asked him/her if they were a Republican Conservative or a Democratic Liberal, what do you think would be the odds that they were a Republican Conservative? What party would you put your money on?
 

Scott A

Well-Known Member
Ya know, what is true is that all Republicans/Conservatives are NOT racist bigots. but let me ask you this. If you came across a bonafide racist and asked him/her if they were a Republican Conservative or a Democratic Liberal, what do you think would be the odds that they were a Republican Conservative? What party would you put your money on?
That depends if we are going to include all racists or just white racists. If we include all racists then im pretty sure there would be no way of correlating racism to a political party. I guess that doesnt fit the little narrative you are trying to tell though.
 
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jay87

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Wow, we continue to push the envelope on self-righteous elitism. Yep, all 55M of them are dummies or KKK (oh, that's right...quick google search of KKK shows an estimated 5-8k members, max).




First, just because you co-op the term social progress as a euphemism for your liberal views does not make it so. Did you take a look at this map posted by Hellswindstaff (or similar maps from a myriad of sources). Yes, much of the blue is high density population centers...but the entire rest of the fucking country (see all that red) doesn't seem to agree with you...but you seem to express that your view is equivalent to fact and your view is that they are all socially backward, regressive, stupid, ignorant racists and haters.


Perhaps I should just avoid this forum. It certainly isn't helping to improve my view of my fellow citizens.

There's 2 things here:


  • Not all Trump voters are racist, but some of them are.

When Donald Trump said all of the crazy, idiotic, racist, sexist, and offensive things that he said during his campaign, he hurt a lot of people and emboldened a lot of racists.

When Donald won the presidency it made many people of color and many women feel like racism and sexism were just legitimized because our new president had just repeatedly used racist and sexist rhetoric in order to win the election.

I've recently heard of middle school kids chanting "build a wall" at their latino classmates. I've heard of a high school that had hate speech painted on the walls that was punctuated with a "#Trump". Trump has undeniably had many racist and bigoted people standing behind him pushing him to victory, but they weren't the only ones.

I think many people felt forced to look the other way about Trump's racist and sexist comments because to them it was less about race and more about economics. Ironically many Trump supporters really were agreeing with the same message that many black civil rights advocates have used in that "It's not all about color, it's about negative socio-economic factors affecting people of many colors."

People felt like the deck was stacked against them and Hillary symbolized the dealer. Trump symbolized a roulette table, you don't know exactly what's gonna happen but at least you feel like you've got a chance.



  • Trump won, now we have to see what he's got.
Now that Trump has won the presidency he has to actually be a president. He is not a CEO, he cannot simply fire American citizens. He now has to worry not just about his supporters, but he has to work with all Americans. In order to bring this country back together he will be forced to appease the people who have opposed him.

There have been encouraging signs that Trump is starting to realize the reality of the situation. He met with Obama and talked about how it was an honor and complimented many of the great things Obama had done. Trump said he wants to seek Obama's counsel a lot in the future. See the difference here, are we still talking about Donald Trump?

Donald probably won't be the fantasy that his supporters see as "Making America Great Again". And he probably won't be the living nightmare of Adolf Hitler wrapped in an American flag.

I hope that Donald will try to serve the American people as well he can.
All we can do is hope, even the people who elected Donald Trump, and the Republican party who were forced to nominate him are in the exact same boat.

The reality is Donald Trump is the president of the United States and no one is quite sure what he is going to do. :shrug:
 

grokit

well-worn member
:popcorn:
I've had a busy week and haven't posted much through the drama. But it seems that even though this election went exactly as many of us expected, it has rocked the worlds of many others. I'm still catching up on the "middle pages" of this thread, but from the talk of ignore buttons it would seem that I haven't missed that much. Or maybe I've skipped over the best part, can't wait to catch up with all of the drama here.

But if it hasn't already been brought up I will just say that trump won for a lot of reasons, but one huge one is history. Particularly the history of these united states, and its proud traditions of racism and sexism.

Racism and sexism combined to defeat Clinton. This outcome is as much a backlash against President Barack Obama as it is against a woman being elected to the top office of the United States of America. America is a country divided against itself where political ideology and polarization are deeply intertwined with racial animus, sexism and hostility to the Other. If politics is a story of action and reaction, the age of Obama was punched in the face on Election Day by the age of Trump.

This election was an ugly time but buckle up, because the shit machine is just getting into gear.

For example if we get the 1990's trump, the worst is definitely yet to come:

Hitler’s speeches—he turns skittish and, perhaps, inventive. Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.

“Did your cousin John give you the Hitler speeches?” I asked Trump.
Trump hesitated. “Who told you that?”
“I don’t remember,” I said.
“Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.”(“I did give him a book about Hitler,” Marty Davis said. “But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”) Later, Trump returned to this subject:
“If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”

So that settles that. The bottom line is even if trump doesn't have a mandate, he has both houses of congress, and will have a friendly supreme court plus many other judges validating his policies. No reichstag-type event will be necessary, if he wants to take this country for a surreal fascist adventure. The bonfire is primed with gasoline, just light it and watch it burn. Even without the support of the masses.

The bottom line is trump can do whatever the hell he wants, as he never took a position on anything.

At least we didn't give the socialist a chance to upset corporate profits, that would have been a travesty.

:myday:
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach has been asked to join President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team.

The team will advise Trump on policy issues leading up to his swearing-in in January, preparing him to begin his first 100 days in office. It’s an unpaid position for Kobach.

Kobach called the transition from Obama’s presidency to Trump’s “one of the sharpest transitions we’ve seen,” a 180-degree turn for the country.

Why should this terrify you? Because Donald Trump has just named one of the most racist politicians in all of America to his transition team. Kris Kobach was the architect of the most racist law in modern American history. SB 1070 passed in Arizona in 2010. What did it mean? If you have brown skin or an accent, police had a right to stop you, detain you and demand you prove your citizenship.

Arizona’s S.B. 1070 compels police to ask for papers from anyone they have a reasonable suspicion of being without status. Under this law any person of color, or anyone with a foreign accent, can be required to prove their status and be jailed—regardless of whether they are a citizen or an immigrant—until they can do so. The Supreme Court indicated that prolonged detention would be impermissible, but people’s rights will likely be violated before that limitation can be enforced.

By targeting certain groups of people living within the state, the Arizona law amounts to an ethnically divisive and deeply hostile social policy. It raises the specter of states treating people differently based solely on their appearance rather than on their actions. Every person in Arizona and states that pass S.B. 1070-like legislation will be required to carry proof of their legal status at all times or face the possibility of being detained. In practice it will be people of color that bear the brunt of these policies.

This doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy towards Trump. I'm not a person of color but feel protective of minorities. This is what I was afraid of.
:leaf:
 

Scott A

Well-Known Member
:popcorn:


Racism and sexism combined to defeat Clinton. This outcome is as much a backlash against President Barack Obama as it is against a woman being elected to the top office of the United States of America. America is a country divided against itself where political ideology and polarization are deeply intertwined with racial animus, sexism and hostility to the Other. If politics is a story of action and reaction, the age of Obama was punched in the face on Election Day by the age of Trump.

This election was an ugly time but buckle up, because the shit machine is just getting into gear.



:myday:
I personally find this to be disgusting trash. I guess its just easy to blame trump getting 60 million voters on racism and sexism.
 
Scott A,

Scott A

Well-Known Member
Not all of them are racists. It would be absolutely ridiculous to make that claim.

But I think the first few minutes of this video provide an example of why people are upset.

Trust me Ive seen the videos I understand Trump is bad, I didnt vote for him. The thing is though if you look at the polls it just doesnt line up that racism won this for Trump. Trump did better with minorities than either of the last 2 Republican candidates and really only did slightly worse with women which can be expected when running against the possible first female president. Putting the blame on racism and sexism in America is just simply disingenuous and avoids the real reasons that he was elected.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
When Trump mocked the disabled reporter I was out with giving him the benefit of the doubt during the election. Also when he didn't disavow David Duke. He knew who David Duke was. Thanks for sharing the above video to jog some memories out there.

I understand folks wanting change but common people, Trump? A lot of folks drank the koolaide. Most 55 million it looks like. I keep hearing an echo.

When I heard Trump on tape talking about grabbing women's vaginas and getting away with it because he was a star. I knew that he wouldnt last. I still had some faith in humankind. To think that people voted this slimball into office made me physically ill the other night. I'm not alone in feeling that way and it's not because I wanted Hillary Clinton.
 
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jay87

Well-Known Member
Trust me Ive seen the videos I understand Trump is bad, I didnt vote for him. The thing is though if you look at the polls it just doesnt line up that racism won this for Trump. Trump did better with minorities than either of the last 2 Republican candidates and really only did slightly worse with women which can be expected when running against the possible first female president. Putting the blame on racism and sexism in America is just simply disingenuous and avoids the real reasons that he was elected.

You are in denial if you don't see that a large number of people voted for Donald Trump because they thought he would support their own racism and prejudices.

People supporting Trump have been telling me:
"He just used those racist words to get elected, he'll be different now"

If we optimistically assume that is true, that means that Trump knew that many people would support him precisely because he used racist and bigoted rhetoric.

The fact of the matter is many people DID support Trump because they believed him when he said he was going to "Make America Great White Again"
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Ya know, what is true is that all Republicans/Conservatives are NOT racist bigots. but let me ask you this. If you came across a bonafide racist and asked him/her if they were a Republican Conservative or a Democratic Liberal, what do you think would be the odds that they were a Republican Conservative? What party would you put your money on?
Come on lwien....really, I mean really? If you came across a dyed in the wool, hard core Soviet style Communist, which of the major party candidates do suppose that person would state they support....Democrats, perhaps?

Is that any reason to label Democrats as Communists and wring our hands endlessly about the fact that Communists voted for our President (if HRC won).

I really like the people on FC. Really do...even all the ones that I disagree with politically. So brother, peace be with you.
 

Scott A

Well-Known Member
You are in denial if you don't see that a large number of people voted for Donald Trump because they thought he would support their own racism and prejudices.

People supporting Trump have been telling me:
"He just used those racist words to get elected, he'll be different now"

If we optimistically assume that is true, that means that Trump knew that many people would support him precisely because he used racist and bigoted rhetoric.

The fact of the matter is many people DID support Trump because they believed him when he said he was going to "Make America Great White Again"
What are we considering "a large number"? You are generalizing people and pushing stereotypes right now. It's sad.
 
Scott A,

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I'm trying, maybe desperately, to give Trump a chance to govern before I make up my mind about how he governs. It's what HRC asked us to do when she made her concession speech. It's what Obama asked us to do when he made his recent speech.

As a Dem I have to admit that my team lost and lost in a big way. A whole lot of people disagreed with my viewpoint and ballot in order for this to happen. I don't have to like it and I don't ..... but I do have to admit that I learned something about millions of Americans that voted for Trump:

He did not win solely because of racists, misogynists or any other group that might be considered unsavory. I've come to understand that these types weren't even the majority of what put him over the top. What put him over the top are the millions of voters of every demographic that are disgusted and want our political system and those who run it to change.

Time to stop painting the Trumpetts with that broad brush of racists and the like because it's one of the reasons we lost. You have to ass-u-me that half this country is unsavory to continue thinking like that and it's just not true.
 

Msek

Well-Known Member
how-did-donald-trump-win ---> as many stories as there are voters

Spin the wheel, three different takes:

Liberal

Trial lawyer (agree/disagree - its fun watching his rants/summations, every once in a while)

Hardcore Ted
 

HighSeasSailor

Well-Known Member
CK NEVER said that. She said that she wanted to see the protests continue. She never said that she was glad that people are rioting. Protests and riots are not synonymous.

I still find it amazing how many people read and hear just what they want to read and hear rather than what is actually written or spoken.

Such as in this case, where I made it clear I think she doesn't, and wished to point out that she may not realize what she's endorsing.

No idea why you felt like she couldn't respond for herself, or why you chose to construe this in such a way. Have I not been excessively polite at every opportunity?
 
HighSeasSailor,

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@HighSeasSailor i almost PMd you. I feel like you keep targeting and repeating me over and over again. I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. People use their freedom to protest. I'm glad we live in a free country where that still is allowed. I don't endorse violence. I have repeated several times.

If we can act respectful maybe we can continue to talk about after the election. I was for Bernie. I actually sat at my caucus on a Saturday morning for 2 hours. I think we all want to do the right thing and are concerned about the country with a Trump presidency.

Edit - We can be respectful and disagree.
 
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HighSeasSailor

Well-Known Member
@HighSeasSailor i almost PMd you. I feel like you keep targeting and repeating me over and over again. I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. People use their freedom to protest. I'm glad we live in a free country where that still is allowed. I don't endorse violence. I have repeated several times.

If we can act respectful maybe we can continue to talk about after the election.

I'm sorry if you feel that way, but I've only responded to you once, maybe twice? I've said things that you didn't agree with, but it wasn't particularly directed at you.

My purpose is not to suggest that you endorse violence, but to point out that what you are endorsing leads to violence, whether you wish for that or not.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Come on lwien....really, I mean really? If you came across a dyed in the wool, hard core Soviet style Communist, which of the major party candidates do suppose that person would state they support....Democrats, perhaps?

Is that any reason to label Democrats as Communists and wring our hands endlessly about the fact that Communists voted for our President (if HRC won).

I really like the people on FC. Really do...even all the ones that I disagree with politically. So brother, peace be with you.

Two things. First off, while Communism is very far from my ideal form of government, racism on the other hand is totally abhorrent to me and in my opinion, is not even on the same playing field.

Secondly, your post raises up very interesting questions. What is it about the Democratic/Liberal platform that appeals to Communists and conversely, what is it about the Republican/Conservative platform that appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists? I have my own answers to this but I'd like to hear from others as well as you.

...what you are endorsing leads to violence.

.....what you are endorsing SOMETIMES leads to violence. (fixed)
 
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