HERBIE 510 Stainless Steel Mesh Vaporizer

oddjobold

510 Vaporist
My Air-Bypass collar kept falling off so I used a 1.2 mm O-ring (19mm ID) and it works way better, once the collar is pushed onto the O-ring it's held firmly in place, almost too hard to turn, but I guess once a happy position is found it can just stay there. A 1.1 mm O-ring I think would be perfect but I couldn't find any. I'm keen to try out different coils soon, thanks @oddjobold for the info above.

Thanks. I like wasting money.

Thank me once I have tried it and it works!
 
oddjobold,

oddjobold

510 Vaporist
Yes the claptons work very well. The mesh in my last post is still to be delivered. We shall see!
 
oddjobold,
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PPN

TopGreen X-Max Representative
Company Rep
I can see you use bigger power than me! I'm trying to avoid that cause battery life, I was never running my HB510 at so high power.

I finally achieved a working setup: inverted airflow ring to get air inlet closer of the bottom (like mentionned before I added a o-ring to fill the small gap at the bottom, this is add some style!), finer filter screen, another high temp o-ring to get a better seal between outer wall and inner wall (it helps to keep everything in place while unloading also ) , and I replaced mesh by another I cut in SS316 mesh I have for pressing hash to make rosin (0.26ohm, bigger gauge, slightly more length) and i have great results using my box set at 35w.

At 35w I have 2 or 3 slightly smaller hits to heat soak everything and vapor becomes thicker after, for now I'm stirring but there is no hot spots at all and taste is always good but when I go in the 40w range I find the taste too bad. With on-demands units used in power mode I usually stick with one power setup (here 35w) and just push the button more to achieve higher temp. I use my Imp at 25w, my Iheat at 28w and the HB510 at 35w.

Oh yes, I replaced the drip tip for a black shorter one coming from my old beloved ESV (I use mine with another mp), looks nice with the bottom black o-ring, looks a bit less metallic. I just need another box mod. A tubular mod would be great but I'm afraid the battery longlife would be short, although with a 21700 battery it would be better. I love my Movkin+Iheat setup cause I can vape a dozen of bowls before to have to recharge (before to get the 2 batteries fully drained usually).
Happy I didn't gave up with that one!
 

Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Hi everybody,

this all makes us very happy to see that the most of you managed to run Herbie in a proper way. But now maybe you can understand what we meant with it takes a little period of time to find your personal setup.
Unfortunatley we are still looking for a good drip tip. Since we can not find a good one, we are thinking about producing one. We are also thinking about a drip tip with glas balls in it to suck up the heat of the vapor. What do you think about it? If you have any ideas how a perfect drip tip should look like, we would be very happy to see your suggestions (maybe some drawings or smth.) If you don't want to show it here, we would also be very happy if you could send us an email.

I tried to analyse the behavior why Herbie is running better with claptons. I think the mesh doesn't have enoguh thermal mass. This means you have a high surface area but once the airstream hits the mesh all the heat is soak up from the air and the mod can not deliver fast enough power to keep the temperature. (Maybe I should not have done that much CFD simulation for an efficient airflow around the mesh). What do you think about it?

@PPN what do you mean with you turned around the airflow ring? Sorry don't understand it :( Maybe you can post a picture. And can you please explain what do you mean with "when I go in the 40w range I find the taste too bad"? Is the vapor then too hot or too harsh?

We finally found a way that we can make videos legally now in Germany. So now we have to look for a camera, mic, light, software etc.

May I also ask you another question? We recieved also the feedback that is annoying to unscrew the top cap to load Herbie. So is the thread a critical point?


Thank you all for your support!

Cheers,
Nils
 

PPN

TopGreen X-Max Representative
Company Rep
@PPN what do you mean with you turned around the airflow ring? Sorry don't understand it :( Maybe you can post a picture. And can you please explain what do you mean with "when I go in the 40w range I find the taste too bad"? Is the vapor then too hot or too harsh?
Hi, glad to see you back!

About the air inlets... I thought they was misplaced and would like to see them closer of the bottom.... although after a closer look at the device I saw that's doesn't matter . So all my excuses my idea only brings a more tight airflow ring (and a bit less... monolithic design:D).My camera is dead since my daughter played with... and I have a so old phone the camera isn't worth the pain!

Yes, I found the vapor pretty harsh and it tends to make me cough... like most pure convection vaporizers... until you find your sweet spot! So I tend to use the least airflow I can to achieve low temp hits... that's how I use my Iheat (another 510 pure convection atty) I use screens with very tight mesh size in order to reduce the airflow, like that I can achieve very thick low temp hits rather than to have to rip it at high power. And it's better for battery life both in term of n° of hits per charge and for battery longlife. So basically, I'm using it at 35w at the moment but even if I have a well extracted load, a deep medication and a good taste I can't get very denses clouds and can't extract a bowl in 2-3 hits. I tried to go in the 40w range and didn't got better density, just worst taste with "burnt" accents (nothing combusted just got some tiny bits scortched). in conclusion, I found it miss some "Oomph"!!

I think the mesh doesn't have enoguh thermal mass
I agree, the one I used is slightly bigger (and the one in the Iheat is very bigger and longer, check the Iheat thread, there is some pics of the heater), I think bigger is supposed to means a longer heat up... although I can't say heat up to be longer, I want to say it's pretty comparable or even shorter cause when it's hot it's stay hot unlike your which may be cooled down with a fast pull.
Imho you may have a great idea to look further in mesh idea rather than going to clapton's coils, maybe clapton mesh exists (I think so).

Do you think it's possible to use 2 mesh's screens of different size to create a "pocket" of heat between them?

For sure mesh is not as easy to deal with rather than coils, I remenber by the past the FlashVape Vaporizer, I was too much inexperimented at this time and finally gave up with this vape after I burned a few heaters, basically it was the same idea than you under a sort of "mechanical mod" form, they used a tiny mesh too and they was a lot of connections issues and , when too much power, some holes appeared in the screen...
That's the issue @KeroZen mentionned and it may be avoided using bigger gauge (and at the benefit of best results!).

Sorry to be so long...
 

sashka69

Well-Known Member
Nils and Til were so kind and sent me some spare parts, even for free. Thank you guys!

So I was able to change the broken screw and switched my coil to a new design. It's still a fused clapton coil but this time a better copy of the tinymight heater design.

It reads 0.6 ohms and has only 2 mm distance to the herbal chamber screen.

First hit when the coil is cold it needs a second to heat up but then it's fine. Wattage is 45-60W and I'm still using capsules only.

This is my best herbie coil so far.

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Edit. Maybe @Vape Engineering can make some airflow simulations with this setup?
I'm not absolutely sure what the best distance is between this coil design and herb camber because this coil is a heating beast. Less distance means less power needed (I think so at least) but there might be a sweet spot in terms of their airflow design.
 
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oddjobold

510 Vaporist
Nils and Til were so kind and sent me some spare parts, even for free. Thank you guys!

So I was able to change the broken screw and switched my coil to a new design. It's still a fused clapton coil but this time a better copy of the tinymight heater design.

It reads 0.6 ohms and has only 2 mm distance to the herbal chamber screen.

First hit when the coil is cold it needs a second to heat up but then it's fine. Wattage is 45-60W and I'm still using capsules only.

This is my best herbie coil so far.

View attachment 3697

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Great coil idea @sashka69. Giving me some ideas when I get my new mesh. If I gave a strip of the mesh two "legs" I could get a coil of mesh as a heater. Need to think about what to make the legs out. Some kinda thick e-cig wire maybe? Got some coils with my M22 perhaps they would work.

Anyway I got my reducer. I think I prefer the Herbie without. I think the Herbie prefers a lose pack otherwise you get hotspots and charing.

So if I had my time again I would just buy the Herbie alone. All the accessories are kinda unnecessay. The supplied accessories are also kinda poor. The drip tip went in the bin, and the screen are not fine enough. The mesh supplied is not fit for purpose. However the herbie itself, I like. Taste is real good and the Herbie itself is built solid. More experimenting to do.
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
60W is a hell lot of power! And beware that claptons often have a very fine gauge wire wrapped around a larger one and that fine gauge wire can melt and pop too like fine mesh does.

By all means your coil shouldn't be glowing like that during normal use, for reasons discussed many times elsewhere.

I still recommend using 22-20awg (or even 18awg but often space is an issue) wire, SS430 or SS316L, single strand. It's harder to form but it will not glow and should not deteriorate under normal use conditions.

Stove-top is the way to go indeed, as far as shapes go.
 
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sashka69

Well-Known Member
Glowing was just for the picture so one can see the heating area in action. During normal use the airflow cools the coil enough to not glow. Even at 60w. But good to know that claptons have to treat wisely.
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
It will really depend how much space you have on your RDA deck and how skilled you are to shape your coil(s) With small gauge (ie. large diameter) wire like that, the resistance will tend to be very low, so you need more length to compensate (hence the space constraint issue, as most often you don't want the coil to touch the atty walls, even with glass but obviously not at all when it's metallic and conductive.

Just never ever make super low ohms builds on a mech mod. You really need some kind of electronic protection to prevent your cell from exceeding its CDR, so VW or TC only. It's not uncommon to end up around 0.2 or less with that large of a wire and little space, and it can be hard for the DC/DC converter, as well as creating other complicated issues with TC (resistance changes are so small that you start getting resolution/quantization issues with the ADC used to measure said resistance, the ohm-meter being done in software on the mod microcontroller)

You can experiment with dual coils builds too, but in my experience they add inertia and latency to the system for some reasons. It's also harder to shape two "perfect" coils rather than a single one.

So if you are not too confident, go with 22awg instead of 20awg. I would reserve 18-20 for more advanced users.

Also have a look at SS430, it has little (if any) Nickel content, so it's a good path to explore for those with Ni sensitivity (or just to stay even more on the safe side, since we have practically no study proving we are not inhaling metal particles over time, apart from that old biased e-cig study where they over-cooked the thing so much they found Ni particles everywhere in the tank afterwards...) Small coils do seem to degrade over time, so it's always an open question, nothing being created, nothing being lost, where does the metal go if not in our lungs?

That being said, the larger the wire the less glow and with 18-22 you should get a build that never ever glows. The steel will turn from silver to yellowish at most but will not go through all the rainbow colors... or well unless you dry fire the thing like crazy. A good strong coil should last forever if not over stressed, or at least that's my belief (and our coils are not immersed in corrosive liquids and don't get caked with crud stuff like ecigs, they need to change theirs because they are small and they get all crusty with overcooked stuff and taste degrades, we don't have these issues)

But we do face oxidation, and the more it glows in an oxygen rich environment, the more it will be attacked. I think we all agree now that the least glow the better, at least until proven otherwise, just to be safe.
 

oddjobold

510 Vaporist


The new mesh has arrived. An A5 sheet was £4. It cut fine with scissors.

I have only had one go, but this works better than the claptons. Unfortunately it glows red at 35w. I need more length of coil to avoid this, I think. Not sure if there is room for a RBT splinter zig zag. I am still thinking coil with legs could be best.

Let me have another few goes first before I try a different coil.

Edit: 2nd go. I went down as low as 25w. Still getting vapor but only glowing after holding the fire button for 5 seconds. This thicker mesh is definitely the way forward. Now just need more surface area!
 
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oddjobold

510 Vaporist
Edit 2: I think this coil is a fail


I need better wire for the legs. Something straight.
 
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oddjobold,

oddjobold

510 Vaporist


New coil - Light bulb zigzag. I was a bit scared of the other coil. Too much glowing.

This coil does seem to glow less, works better and more instant heatup. At 30w it still glows if you hold it down for around 5 seconds. However with the more instant heat up I don't need to hold that long. Still not a perfect situation to be in, but better.

After testing I am not sure if the previous simple loop coil was better than the claptons.

The light bulb zig zag does seem the best of all. I am going to test it more and report back.

There really is not much room to play with for the coil. To test I put the inner section in without a screen. Then you can see if the coil touches the walls quite easily and adjust.

I am enjoying playing with these different coils to find the best. I have some 22awg solid s316 coming, and different mesh coils (help me I now have coil vas, or CAS as I like to call it).

Herbie is for people that like to tinker. It's not plug and play so not for everyone.

Perhaps a revision to the Herbie could be slightly bigger? Maybe with a glass lined coil chamber?
 
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oddjobold

510 Vaporist


Fail!

These are far to small to be of any use. Are all these mesh coils of the same type the same size? Only cost £2 on a slow boat so not a big loss.

My AWG22 ss316l wire came in.

@sashka69 hows your pancake coil performing?
 

sashka69

Well-Known Member
The pancake coil works like a champ.

Haven't tested without capsules yet, but I think in this discipline this coil will do a great job too. I would go for a lower wattage there.

For capsules, I set the body airflow to 60 percent open, temp stepping from 45w (2 terpy hits) to 50w (2 cloudy hits) to 55w (1 less dense hit) to 60w (1 finishing hit).
This way I get a nice, even roasted abv and feel quite medicated.

I see no reason to tweak this little beast any further besides Tcr. My pancake coil is made of ss 316l wire but it doesn't seem to work well. Even at 280°C is almost no extraction. But I can live with power (wattage-) mode.
 

Daprezz

Well-Known Member
For TC you should raise coil value and/or tcr value with artic fox or tubo firmware to set the temp to the extraction levels you want. But coil resistance moves with use and you have to adjust.
 
Daprezz,

PPN

TopGreen X-Max Representative
Company Rep
I see no reason to tweak this little beast any further besides Tcr. My pancake coil is made of ss 316l wire but it doesn't seem to work well. Even at 280°C is almost no extraction
Try to increase the temperature, since it's convection you need your heat source to be a lot more hot than the vaporizing temp you want to achieve for the load (i.e the enail controlled dry herb vaporizer use usually temp between 500°F-700°F (250-350°C).

I have better results using a mesh similar to the one @oddjobold posted but not as good as expected, extraction is better but still need a lot of stirs and the taste is not on the top. Will probably try the pancake coil @sashka69 posted about. Got a Glow recently and I'm impressed by the coil which performs very well.

Still have to find the right coil for the Herbie, I hope I'll find it.

I have a pair of the Divine tribe replacements ceramic coils for the QQ, do you think it's worth a try?
 
PPN,
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