Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

rvarick

rvarick

Well-Known Member
Had a dumb question as far as the PWM on the Flite. If I'm thinking of the PWM dial as a clock, which "times" should generally give a hotter/darker roast (vs. lighter)? For instance, is "9:00" generally going to provide a hotter load than "3:00"? Or is it the opposite? Thanks in advance!
 
rvarick,
DarkBidding

DarkBidding

Member
This’ll be a little long (related to the last two posts on IH & PWM).

@TommyDee - I’m trying to get this all figured out myself. I know that, with torches, a multi-flame torch will heat more of the metal surface quickly and cause a quicker click, but less of that fast heat soaks into the metal of the tip over the shorter time, so you get less vapor production. Conversely, a single flame torch will heat the metal more slowly and have a better heat soak and takes the click a bit longer. This gives better vapor production at generally a higher internal temperature within the material (better conduction). Obviously, heating near the tip or further away from the tip has influence. Nearer causing a faster click and further away, a slower click. My understanding with IH, and please do correct me if I’m wrong, is that the coil size is kind of like the single/multi flame (and maybe even how close/far away you’re holding the flame to the metal), the coil adjustment is like where the flame is being applied to the tip, and the pulse width modulation is how long the flame is being applied (would be like: torch, pause, torch, pause) allowing heat just applied to soak in a bit before applying more, over and over until the click. So PWM should allow for more complete/even conduction to the material? Thinking about it like a chicken baked in an oven, a chicken baked at a high heat for a short time might have brown crispy skin when pulled from the oven, but will be raw inside. But a chicken baked slowly at a lower heat will have both a brown crispy skin and be done inside too.

The PWM dial controls the intervals of when heat (I’m saying heat, though it’s actually heat via induction) is applied. Is either fixed? Either the heat cycle, or the pause cycle? Or are they inverse to each other as the dial is turned? For example, if a heat/pause time cycle was, say 300ms, is full 300/0, off 0/300, and PWM is variable at 250/50, 200/100, 150/150, 100/200, 50/250? Or is heat time fixed at 200ms with a varying pause? Like 200/50, 200/100, 200/150. Or heat time varies and the pause is fixed—50/200, 100/200, 150/200?
 
TommyDee

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Thank you for confirming this information @DarkBidding - You have PWM down very well with the chicken analogy. As to how the PWM is working; the blink rate is the PWM - it is a very-very-very-very slow PWM obviously. Jeff has made sure you can dial out most of the heating if you want, where the 300/0 and 0/300 is the range. Not sure if there is a little at the ends but the idea is that you can get more pause than heat if you want.

The coil size has more to do with the power of your oven for the chicken. You can burn it in 10 minutes or 6 minutes. Basically, a 15mm coil is aggressive at full power and a 17mm coil is very is more forgiving and never delivers the intense heat a 15mm coil can. You can look at it as being the max power capability. I can see concentrate users liking 15mm coils but they do pull a bit more current. Basically, this is the motor in your car; hot rod [15mm], utility [16mm], or daily commuter [17mm].

The first adjustment is user selectable. The second is the user's choice. The third is bake time and this is important to understand about vapcaps - The clicker is a 'delay'. The caps gets hot -shares the heat with the tip [chamber] and then it lets the heat migrate slowly to the clicker. And it decides to finally tell you - "hey man, your loads done - It think - maybe"... Everything important has happened already. So what do you think will happened when you have a hyper-heater? Let's see; the cap is heating excessively - the rate of thermal conduction to the tip is slower than the heat transfer to the clicker - The clicker clicks and the tip [chamber] isn't even heat-soaked yet. Put a Ti tip in there and poof, combustion as more heat made it through the walls of the tip. That is what happened to Orion V1. It was so fast that the clicker clicked and the bake was still in progress or the heat was simply too intense. Every cap combination is very different in the vaping experience.

So I have given up on fast bakes and say an 8-10 second bake is a consistent bake in many IHs. Go 15 seconds and you get even better quality vape. This is exactly about heat soaking. Bringing everything up to temp about the same time and the clicker clicks when everything is right. This is the 3rd adjustment - how deep is the cap in the coil. In these small coils, this adjustment is mere millimeters. You want the actual heat to travel to the clicker, not the IH heating the flat end of the cap. Since the focus of the energy is centered in the coil [spherical, not axial] the tip area of the cap gets the most energy, maybe slightly below tip-center. Now the only way for the clicker to get hot is to allow the heat to travel along the body of the cap and eventually click. The beauty of all this is that most regular caps will click at about the same bake. This was a welcome surprise. The combination of reducing the overall power and tuning the depth of the cap made for highly reliable bakes and consistent bakes between caps.

Notice that I am not mixing PWM in with the basic elements of induction heating. It really isn't necessary if you have a fairly straight forward use-case. For the most part, it is a very reliable heart-beat to count by. But the PWM does tame a 15mm heater or do some fine flavor pulls with a 17mm coil, or anything in between. PWM becomes the fine tune lacking in all other heaters.

On an aside, the power an IH pulls is a great indicator of how it is operating. I like to limit my IH to 70 watts. I find that 80+ watts tends to put a lot of reclaim on the walls of my wooden stems. Even with PWM, the heat spikes this higher temperature into the caps as well. This is the difference between a true PWM which regulates digitally vs. this 'delay' that a Fluxer PWM instills. There are some guidelines as to which coil option may work best for a user that knows their style of vaping. I'm a heavy hitter but I still prefer a bit of PWM - 80%-ON and a power level of around 70 watts on a 16mm coil. I tune for George's take on VapCaps - cook once - cool to click - cook again and draw like heck. Okay, so I also take a draw on the first heating which is sanctioned by George but this method does highlight one thing - if you don't want to combust, ever, if you are paying attention - the first bake should never 'rip'... the second should. If you tune the ingress depth of your cap in the IH based on this second heating to whatever edge you want AT THE CLICK, you will find that all your caps will behave similarly. And this is fucking awesome! I have 5 tips and caps and I can cycle them all without worry of combustion. Each one will draw at the click and each one will deliver heaven on the second draw. The first is no slouch either - flavor and vape should be coming through if you are normally a hard hitter.

There is a lot there so let me know where and if I lost you.
 
DarkBidding

DarkBidding

Member
Man, this was GREAT! Thank you for taking the time to explain all this!! Makes so much sense. Would the “true PWM” (digital) be using temperature sensing to pulse at an optimal rate? Like ABS brakes on a car sensing and pulsing to stop a wheel without the tire skidding?
 
DarkBidding,
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TommyDee

TommyDee

Vaporitor
PWM isn't that intelligent. Normally it is simply a very high speed switch that can swing from 0 on to full on and digital steps in between. The rate is usually fixed. It is digital in the sense that PWM normally requires a specific signal to give it intelligence. With an intelligent controller, one can use PWM as a power regulation device. If that was tied to intelligence that can properly sense the cap's temperature, yes it can act on it.

In short that is what I did to the Launch Box. Put a controller on a 510 adapter and I got temperature control and user curves using a Vaporesso Target Mini II. The controller uses PWM to regulate voltage based on a predictive curve based on the material it is heating.
 
b0

b0

Cloudy...
Just got into IH's after 2-3 years doing only concentrates and decided I wanted a flite just to find out they aren't made anymore :cry:

Any other IH's similar to this one and available in Europe? Flite seems like the top dog
 
b0,
Vaporware

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
I still think it’s the best available, but the upcoming MAD Sense sounds like it should be great and there are some other good options available too.

Maybe ask in the Ask FC forum if you want more info on other heaters. :)
 
b0

b0

Cloudy...
Vaporware said:
I still think it’s the best available, but the upcoming MAD Sense sounds like it should be great and there are some other good options available too.

Maybe ask in the Ask FC forum if you want more info on other heaters. :)
Click to expand...
Arg, guess I'll have to wait
 
b0,
acstorfer

acstorfer

Take My Money Dammit!
You know what's really messed up? At least for me anyway. I just realized, I spent $300 for an induction heater that is nearly as good as a torch 😆 🤣 😂

I think my Flite is the best vaping purchase I've made.
 
DarkBidding

DarkBidding

Member
b0 said:
Everytime I see a new post I come with hopes of it being an announcement of new units incoming :cry:
Click to expand...
Me too 😂! I’m fortunate enough to have a Flite, so I can’t complain, but I’m still trying to find a Flix v2 for use as a dedicated indoor desktop unit.
 
DarkBidding,
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b0

b0

Cloudy...
DarkBidding said:
Me too 😂! I’m fortunate enough to have a Flite, so I can’t complain, but I’m still trying to find a Flix v2 for use as a dedicated indoor desktop unit.
Click to expand...
I found a flite second-hand but was the third owner and 15mm. Got recommended not to buy it but I really want one.

Hope someone uses the same tech at some point if @mr_cfromcali decides to not get back into making them.
 
b0,
mr_cfromcali

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Thanks to all who are still following this thread for your continued interest in my heaters! :love:

I am sure some people wonder why I haven’t revved Fluxer back up yet, and the short answer is that the business conditions for operating a cannabis-adjacent business like Fluxer just sucked back in March and April. I had become very frustrated with my payment processing issues, international shipping issues, and the beginning of the global supply chain crisis.
:\
I wasn't enjoying any of it, so it was time for me to take a break.

The good news (at least from my perspective) is that I feel much less frustrated about these things now, and I do intend to make some more Fluxer heaters in the future, details to follow. I still have some important things I need to work out, including a new payment processor, but I'm working on those now. I should have more details to share before the end of the month.

Thank you all for your support and goodwill. I truly appreciate it. :love:

:wave:

Cheers,
:leaf:
 
b0

b0

Cloudy...
mr_cfromcali said:
Thanks to all who are still following this thread for your continued interest in my heaters! :love:

I am sure some people wonder why I haven’t revved Fluxer back up yet, and the short answer is that the business conditions for operating a cannabis-adjacent business like Fluxer just sucked back in March and April. I had become very frustrated with my payment processing issues, international shipping issues, and the beginning of the global supply chain crisis.
:\
I wasn't enjoying any of it, so it was time for me to take a break.

The good news (at least from my perspective) is that I feel much less frustrated about these things now, and I do intend to make some more Fluxer heaters in the future, details to follow. I still have some important things I need to work out, including a new payment processor, but I'm working on those now. I should have more details to share before the end of the month.

Thank you all for your support and goodwill. I truly appreciate it. :love:

:wave:

Cheers,
:leaf:
Click to expand...
I feel you man, I was working at the start of the year in a glass gallery in Barcelona and we had crazy issues with payment processing too, is soo dumb... We aren't selling anything illegal!!

Knowing that you're coming back made my day!! If anytime you decide to accept crypto as payment (fuck banks) I'm in, if not I will happily wait until you have everything ready and pay the usual way. I'm not in a rush to buy a second IH anymore, now I can wait for the IH I really want :rockon:
 
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