Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

RustyOldNail

Well-Known Member
Flux delux uses three batteries. Flix plug in.

Is the idea possible for an induction device to work only using 1-2 batteries or 1-2 batteries simply isn’t powerful enough?

I’m not a continuous smoker That’s why I’m wondering.
It’s a question of how long it’s useful. Sitting voltage versus the sag voltage. While TommyDee has proven with his many tiny IH designs, you can make something very useful with less battery power, 3 - 18650’s give a decent amount of use before you need to recharge. 2 batteries or less, the more you will be recharging. This of course is directly related to the batteries AMP rating. A lot of IH’s are using LIPO packs too. Bottom line if you care about less time before a recharge, keep an eye on the overall mAh rating of the pack and it’s ability to deliver the needed power. TD can add....
 
RustyOldNail,
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boombastik

New Member
It’s a question of how long it’s useful. Sitting voltage versus the sag voltage. While TommyDee has proven with his many tiny IH designs, you can make something very useful with less battery power, 3 - 18650’s give a decent amount of use before you need to recharge. 2 batteries or less, the more you will be recharging. This of course is directly related to the batteries AMP rating. A lot of IH’s are using LIPO packs too. Bottom line if you care about less time before a recharge, keep an eye on the overall mAh rating of the pack and it’s ability to deliver the needed power. TD can add....
Wonder how long one battery would last vs 2 batteries.

reason I’m wondering if I end up smoking on the go it’s Not much at all especially by myself. Like if I take my mv1 on the go it’s one Crucible unlesss someone else wants to partake (outside).

home well that’s plug in.

if there was a way to get the Flix to hookup to like 1-2 3000mah batteries for “on the go” that could be pretty sweet
 
boombastik,

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
The Flux Deluxe uses 18650 batteries, not AA. They look similar but are actually pretty different under the skin.

There are designs that will run on less voltage/fewer cells than mine. Mine is tuned for 12V, but as the Flix shows it will also run on less voltage.
 
mr_cfromcali,

RustyOldNail

Well-Known Member
Wonder how long one battery would last vs 2 batteries.

reason I’m wondering if I end up smoking on the go it’s Not much at all especially by myself. Like if I take my mv1 on the go it’s one Crucible unlesss someone else wants to partake (outside).

home well that’s plug in.

if there was a way to get the Flix to hookup to like 1-2 3000mah batteries for “on the go” that could be pretty sweet
Haven’t seen or heard of a single 18650 IH heater, as it would be a fairly tiny market for something that would run out of power so quickly. That’s why some build their own, to their own requirements.
 
RustyOldNail,

boombastik

New Member
The Flux Deluxe uses 18650 batteries, not AA. They look similar but are actually pretty different under the skin.

There are designs that will run on less voltage/fewer cells than mine. Mine is tuned for 12V, but as the Flix shows it will also run on less voltage.
my bad I understand there different. I just used AA as like a size reference and not specific, slack way of explaining without knowing exact specifics.

can something like below image possibly work with 1-2 18650’s batteries for Flix?



You know what maybe I’m learning that Flix might be the better option for me because I can always use a torch on the go if need be (less stuff to carry) I just like the portable option as well.
 
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boombastik,

boombastik

New Member
Haven’t seen or heard of a single 18650 IH heater, as it would be a fairly tiny market for something that would run out of power so quickly. That’s why some build their own, to their own requirements.
think of it as your only going to do 1-2 bowls with dynavap I’f I take it out.

I can see flux delux as take on go with multiple people ( 2 or more) sit down etc.. outside
 
boombastik,

scy123

Well-Known Member
You can use a boost converter to boost the voltage of a single battery to 12v. As long as the IH uses less watts than the 18650 can handle it will be fine. The highest drain 18650 I know of can handle 108 watts continuous, don't know what watts IH's run at. If you knew what watts the IH runs at you can calculate estimate runtime too. Just for example (not based on real figures) a single 18650 has around +-10Wh. So it will run 10 watts for a full hour. if the IH is pulling 50 watts. You have a 12min runtime. It's actually a bit more complicated than that cause the capacity of the battery also depends on how much amps your pulling, but the idea is the same.
 
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TommyDee

Vaporitor
@boombastik - the basic power requirement in watts doesn't change. As you lower voltage you raise amps to match. Not a problem as cells can do 45 amps now. The limitation is the circuit itself for sub-4V operation, the electronics requires more. 8.4V is workable for a slow bake, but the 7.2V or even lower at the 6V limit normally doesn't draw enough power to really heat the cap well.

I'm working on a different solution if all you want is a few loads in the woods - 18350! Different tact. Still 3 cells but a shorter size and still have sufficient power levels to go the day. Its 1200mah 3S with all the tricks.
The white pack is a full 3S 18650 with BMS for comparison.

20200717_201539.jpg

The power needed to keep a cap warm is around 35-40 watts. I can outdraw 45 watts of heating and cool the tip down. 50 watts is a slow roast. 60 watts is a nice relaxed bake; 70-80 watts is getting aggressive, and a 100 watts just cooks full bore.
Now divide the voltage you want by the watts needed for the range you want and the math part is done by providing the amps needed for the circuit. Now you have to tune a coil for that behavior or regulate the voltage for the desired behavior.

The technical short answer is that you would reduce the coil length by 1/3rd to reduce the battery voltage by 1/3rd. Rough back of envelope calculation. It would be custom. Since this raises the current, the coil wire size would also increase by, you guessed it, 1/3rd more circular mills.
 
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scy123

Well-Known Member
That pic gets all my diy juices flowing lol.

Just did a little math for runtime with a single 18650 (that is if you boost the voltage to 12v)
Running the IH at 70w, you would need a 20a rated 18650. The LG HG2 has been tested to have a capacity of 5Wh when ran at 20a. So a single 18650 would have a runtime of about 3-4mins.
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
You can use a boost converter to boost the voltage of a single battery to 12v. As long as the IH uses less watts than the 18650 can handle it will be fine. The highest drain 18650 I know of can handle 108 watts continuous, don't know what watts IH's run at. If you knew what watts the IH runs at you can calculate estimate runtime too. Just for example (not based on real figures) a single 18650 has around +-10Wh. So it will run 10 watts for a full hour. if the IH is pulling 50 watts. You have a 12min runtime. It's actually a bit more complicated than that cause the capacity of the battery also depends on how much amps your pulling, but the idea is the same.
Huh. That's an interesting idea and one I haven't see this in this context. Out of curiosity, do you know which cell is capable of 108W continuous output?

FWIW, my first draft of the Flux Deluxe was as a 2 cell circuit. One of things I considered when evaluating 2 cells vs. 3 cells was the total overall savings in cost, weight, and/or volume of multiple cells vs. fewer cells but with a need for add'l components. For me, the greater capacity and simpler circuitry of multiple cells won out, but a 1 cell design with enough capacity to be useful is intriguing for other projects. :brow:

Speaking of batteries...someone had asked me about using the Flix with one of these high capacity battery banks (16800mAh in this case):



I wanted one for general use, so this seemed like a good excuse to order one and also test it with the Flix. The one I ordered from Amazon has a dedicated 12V/10A DC out port, making is a good candidate. And guess what? It works, lol:


The good news is that it does, indeed, work. :) (I'm sure these have been discussed a lot elsewhere on FC, but apparently I don't get out much and they're new to me...)

The downside is that this is battery-in-a-box is both and heavy (1 pound, 5 oz., or about 600g). Here it is side-by-side with the 12V DeWalt battery pack I posted about yesterday:



One bowl (full bowl, 4 heating cycles) also knocked 5% off the capacity display, but I don't know how accurate that is or at what point it shuts down and stops working.

The bottom line, though, is that it does work, and it seems to work pretty well overall. I'll spend some time with it and give another update in another week or two.

Oh, and @TommyDee , I finally picked up some 18350s to play around with. :) They're tiny!
 
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scy123

Well-Known Member
Huh. That's an interesting idea and one I haven't see this in this context. Out of curiosity, do you know which cell is capable of 108W continuous output?
The Samsung 20S has been tested to be able to handle 30a continuous. 30a at the nominal 3.6v = 108w.

 
scy123,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Jeff, with the right components, you can make an inverter in place of two cells and have the benefit of regulated power. The standard offerings are very simple and the discrete components, power caps and inductors, all come in low profile form-factors. That is what the regulated MOD industry is based on. 1S 30 amps output covers ~10amp at 11-ish volts. Making that a low-loss connection is a trick in itself. The upside is that it will -always- deliver 11-ish volts as long as it is in regulation. Its a good way to break into a smart IH. Voltage regulation doesn't require f/w and MP's yet. Just managing size. That the Chinese offerings cannot do.

I think you'll like those little cells. Let me know if you need a case.
 

scy123

Well-Known Member
You would be able to power induction heaters with mods too, with maybe some trickery.

Imagine that! a mod powered IH. Now you can get your nicotine fix and THC fix at same time.
 
scy123,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Looked at that... drifting a bit off scope there though. Not that this hasn't gone into the lab already.
 
TommyDee,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Mod's sense resistance. IH looks like an open circuit. Timers too limit usability. Otherwise a simple adapter and done for voltage mode.
 
TommyDee,

scy123

Well-Known Member
You can hack the firmware and make the mod put out a straight 12v with button press and turn off with button press.

You are essentially making the mod a variable voltage power supply.

Edit: hacking mods is actually a really big thing now. You can find all sorts of people doing out of the box stuff with it. I can run my computer monitor off a mod if I wanted.
 
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scy123,

The Chemist

New member but long time lurker
I may or may not have bought a second Flix last night.:D Purple 15mm coil should be nice with the variable power supply on my operation table in the lab. The one I already have (blue 16mm, 2mm wall) will go on my computer desk for quick easy access to my Vapcap with the regular power supply. Now I should be good until my names comes up for a Flux Deluxe... or two.:p
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
You can hack the firmware and make the mod put out a straight 12v with button press and turn off with button press.

You are essentially making the mod a variable voltage power supply.

Edit: hacking mods is actually a really big thing now. You can find all sorts of people doing out of the box stuff with it. I can run my computer monitor off a mod if I wanted.
Yep, that's what's needed and every time I've asked, crickets. MODs are essentially overkill. We could open a discussion on a MOD power supply. It would work on all corded IH's. What's the bottom line in $.
 
TommyDee,

Jethro

Well-Known Member
Welp, I'm in! Got a Flix ordered. I looked yesterday and there were a bunch of options... although not the natural I originally wanted. Today, only purple and gold, so I ordered the gold! Was my 2nd choice anyway, so I'm pumped. I'll finally get to try the 16mm coil after using my 15mm Fluxer Deluxe for the last year. Can't wait.

So what are people getting for a power supply? I want something adjustable. I'm sure it's been discussed a bunch in this thread, so I apologize if im being redundant. Certainly would appreciate any suggestions though. Also, what cord can I use to link my Fluxer Deluxe to the Flix?

Anyway, I got a gold green machine coming! Yay!
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Thanks for your order, @Jethro !

Regarding the natural aluminum/"raw" cases: I have more coming with the second order of cases, which should be here in ~3 weeks or so. If you would rather switch your order to one of those, @Jethro, send me a DM.

I switched a couple of colors for the next batch, and I'm adding natural and red, keeping black, gun metal, dark green, and blue, and standing pat on orange and purple.

As for the variable voltage power supply, at present you have at least two different ways to get there:

The first one is to use a dedicated adjustable PSU power brick, like this one available from banggood.com, eBay, etc. (but not yet Amazon): https://www.banggood.com/3-12V-10A-...ml?rmmds=mywishlist&ID=47184&cur_warehouse=CN .

You can buy it cheapest from bangood.com, but shipping is slow, unfortunately. I have 20 of these on order and will be selling them through my store, but the shipping is going to be expensive unless you bundle it with a heater purchase.

This option works well and is a very good value.

Another option is to buy a fixed voltage PSU (or maybe you already have one you can use) and add a pre-built voltage step-down module, like this one:

XLX 2PCS 5A Dc-Dc Adjustable Step-Down Module Max 8A 200W 4-40V to 1.25-36V XL4016E1 High Power DC Pressure Regulating Board Constant Current Regulator Converter for Charging or LED Driver Module by XLX: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z8Q6NYX/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_e3mgFbF18JFR2

The above module would sit between the fixed power supply's output and the Flix's DC "in" port, so it would also require a pair of mail and female DC pigtail leads to work. You'd probably want to come up with a project box or other enclosure for it as well, but otherwise it's pretty straightforward to build, as DIY projects go.

I'm sure some other folks will have suggestions, too.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
I'll add that this particular DIY converter has the advantage to allow a 12V limit as a switchable option. Provides more sensitivity.
Also has a way to remote the control within your DIY case. Can't find it on Amazon; link to a random ebay supplier.

 
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Jethro

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your order, @Jethro !

If you would rather switch your order to one of those, @Jethro, send me a DM.
You are welcome- thank you for your awesome heaters! I use my FD every single day! The vapcaps would not be the same for me without an IH. I would still be a cap user but not as much, I am sure of that.

And I am happy the decision was made for me on color, because I couldn't decide between the natural and the orange, so I'm very happy about the orange now.

Thanks for the info on the power supply! How about this product on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/YETAIDA-Adju...-+US+Plug&qid=1595516706&s=electronics&sr=1-7
 
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