Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

Texus

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, a couple of updates:

1. I am finally (!!!!) shipping Flites from batch #1 - the first are going in the mail today, the rest will follow tomorrow and Thursday. I am very sorry for the delay. I left too many small-but-still-important details to the end, plus there was a major holiday with family obligations, etc., even in a pandemic. :rolleyes: I'm going to have a few more family commitments through this weekend, but I will continue to ship today and tomorrow, and expect to have batch 1 fully shipped by Thursday.

2. In a related note, I am holding off on batch #2 until I finish shipping batch #1. Sorry again for my disorganization, but I need to really close out batch 1 before I move on to batch 2. I'll post updates here when that happens, promise!

Launching this project at this time of year has been a little more challenging than I expected, and it's been a grind to push these few final tasks to completion. Thank you for your support and patience!

Cheers,
:leaf:
Just wanted to check to see if tracking numbers will be sent out on these.
 
Texus,
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n0tu2

Well-Known Member
>I am not understanding how it limits range, is this physical or electrical?

The limit is physical, and it's due to a resource conflict: the cap-as-switch (CaS) and push button both make full use of the 1-2mm of space at the base of the coil.
  • This is where the cap-as-switch contacts are installed, and they rise 2.0mm above the board.
  • The 2mm gap between the PCB and the bottom loop of the coil is also where you will want to place the tip of the vapcap when you heat it with the push button - it is literally the hot zone. This is the space that is occupied by the switch contacts

I am confused as to why having both the "cap-as-switch" and the "push button" options installed in the same unit would be more of a loss than a gain?

Besides the fact of it being a redundant system as stated (a plus) if the "cap-as-switch" activation contacts rise 2.0mm from the PCB (below the bottom loop of the heating coil) preventing the tip of the vapcap from going below the bottom loop of the coil at the point when it makes contact with the cap-as-switch activation contacts (a fixed depth), then aren't all "cap-as-switch" ONLY configurations at a loss to begin with vs push button ONLY configurations? (a loss of maximum heating profile)

Unless the bottom loop of the heating coil is positioned for all "cap-as-switch" configurations a little bit higher (1mm?) then the activation contacts to always give the vapcap the "maximum heating profile" when the vapcap tip makes contact with the switches, so no matter what, other then using the PWM to control the heating profile, you always must have the vapcap at the same depth in the coil to activate the heat with cap-as-switch setups and get maximum heating.

I may be wrong, but if one was to have BOTH switch type options in the same unit, using it with cap-as-switch activation would give the hottest heat profile and raising the vapcap tip .5-1.0mm +/- above the cap-as-switch activation contacts and using the push button to activate the heat would be a "cooler" heating profile (not taking into consideration PWM - always on mode). I see this as a minor plus rather then a loss?

Does the bottom loop of the heating coil heat up the activation switch contacts as well in cap-as-switch mode?

Does the vapcap tip get hot enough to burn the PCB when inserted all the way down in push button only units (below the bottom coil and in the 2.0mm space/touching the board)?

I think in all dual switch unit option configurations (cap-as-switch and push button) the bottom loop of the heating coil should always be configured for the most aggressive heating profile it can achieve as the default when being used in the cap-as-switch mode, so that you could always back the vapcap tip off the switch contacts and use the push button to activate the heat for a cooler profile (depending on how far you back off), no?

Perhaps I am not understanding the layout correctly or making it more complicated then it should be.

n
 
n0tu2,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
I should chime in here since I did some work on the heating profile of the Fluxer Flite @n0tu2 . I see nothing wrong with your intuitions. The very beauty of varied users among us. I've already stated my switch preferences and why. Choices drive me nuts. One of each please good Sir!

In tuning IHs, DIY, Flite, and others, I have a faithful baseline I aim for regardless and it hasn't let me down, ever. When George from DV confirmed the 'method', it all made sense.

First of all, we all hate combustion. The first heating isn't the money shot. It can be a very vapy-terpy hit for sure but the second draw is when most of the 'noids we're looking for get released. A bit of heat soaking between clicks and the second heating in a session typically 'delivers'. George's method plays on this concept. Flite delivers on this concept.

The baseline I use that allows the above profile puts the flat of the cap flush with the bottom of the first coil in the IH. In the case of the CaS[tm], the baseline is 2mm from the board for the height of the contacts and a rest at 2mm from the board for the first loop of the coil.

Being a 15mm coil, this puppy is sensitive to the nuts when it comes to adjusting for that second heating in a session. Jeff offered a slight bias one way or the other which is great. He knows what he is doing. This post is the philosophy behind Flite's tuning.

I might suggest a low temp cap would function perfectly in Flite if more draws per caps are desired. One can easily finish a cap in 3 clicks with the default tuning. The low temp cap should double that. I don't have one t test this theory. The theory is based on good evidence however.

At the baseline, Flite targets a 6-8 second bake to the click. Not a hyper heater by any means and no slouch. This allows Flite to have similar profiles regardless of the caps or tips used. Flite delivers a draw at the click and its ready for any VC in rotation.

Flite also had some more pressing performance metrics it had to hit with regard to battery life and performance throughout the battery life. More than boring but let it suffice to know that at low battery, Flite is still a usable heater.

I hate combustion. I've been testing the hell out of FireFlite, which is the release configuration, and it has been very manageable. I like rotating 4 VCs and having them all deliver pretty much the same experience from the same heater. The only real difference is how long they bake. That's on DV if you've been following my studies.

BTW; Jeff certainly underplayed Flite's pouch. It's an apparel Goldie or FireFlite are rarely without. No accidental scratches and always a comfortable hold. Thanks Jeff - these pouches are nothing but the perfect match for an awesome heater.

20201229_233619.jpg
I added the leather... in the spirit of DV, customization is all the rage :rockon: My Flites are rarely undressed :cool:
 
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mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Hi @n0tu2 ,

Thanks for taking the time to ask these questions. Let me see if I can explain myself better.

I may be wrong, but if one was to have BOTH switch type options in the same unit, using it with cap-as-switch activation would give the hottest heat profile and raising the vapcap tip .5-1.0mm +/- above the cap-as-switch activation contacts and using the push button to activate the heat would be a "cooler" heating profile (not taking into consideration PWM - always on mode). I see this as a minor plus rather then a loss?

Cap-as-switch offers very repeatable, very convenient heater operation. Where it is limited a bit is in its maximum upper range: the cap-as-switch's hottest zone is defined by the fixed placement of the contacts and their position relative to the position of the bottom loop of the coil. You can't go deeper to into the coil to add more time (and heat) before the click. This isn't a big deal for some people and this behavior is probably a feature to many, but just like some us love very spicy food -🔥
:love:
- some of us also love skating on the edge between maximum extraction and combustion. :science:

The push button allows for a wider range of possible heating experiences. Yes, you can set it up as you describe, so that it mirrors the performance of the cap-as-switch operation. What I like about the push button, however, is that I can set it up for an even hotter result - which is my own personal preference - and the beauty of the variable activation point is I don't have to run it that hot if I don't want to. I can lift the DV up a few millimeters for a quicker click on the first heating cycle, then bury it for a longer interval on the second. I especially like doing this with my SS tips, as they take and hold the heat better. The same aggressive heating technique with a ti tip leads to combustion. Forgive the metaphor, but for me, the push button operation is more like playing a fretless instrument or a horn: I have A LOT of control, and I can take advantage of a greater range of heating options than the cap-as-switch contacts afford. Not everyone wants that, or even cares about it, but some do. That's my own .02 cents.

As a person who has used both versions extensively for the past several months, I can sense a difference in the way these two versions operate:
  • The cap-as-switch is very convenient, and I appreciate the sleek look and ease of use it provides.
  • The push button version has the potential for more range, and I can use as much or as little of than range as I want, and I can even change my mind on the fly.
I think the version with both does have all of the advantages of the cap-as-switch version (although the push button breaks up the 'single hole' look), but it can't add the extra functionality that is possible with the push button version, as described above. Yes, you can set the max temp for the Cas so that it is as hot as I just described, but most won't want that 100% of the time, so it seems like a bad idea to make that the fixed position, most frequently used activation point.

That's my opinion. You certainly don't have to agree with me or value this "extra heating thing" as much as I seem to, but hopefully the above explanation of my thinking on this subject is clearer.

Does the bottom loop of the heating coil heat up the activation switch contacts as well in cap-as-switch mode?

The contacts sit below the coil. They are heated slightly by contact with the DV tip, but they sit below the coil and do not get overly hot. The contacts themselves are small, bent springs whose compression and rebound are protected by silicone bumpers. The high temp silicone prevents the DV from crushing the contacts.

Does the vapcap tip get hot enough to burn the PCB when inserted all the way down in push button only units (below the bottom coil and in the 2.0mm space/touching the board)?

There is a 19mm x 1mm high temp silicone pad that sits under the push button-only coil, with cutouts for the LEDs. This pad also has an ~8mm center cutout in it so the DV tip doesn't fully contact the silicone and make it an inadvertent heat sink while you are actively heating.

You can see it here if you look closely:

IMG-0606-private.jpg


The silver pads are the pads for the contacts. Since someone will likely ask, they are 1mm below the surface of the silicone and are beyond the reach of the DV.

I think in all dual switch unit option configurations (cap-as-switch and push button) the bottom loop of the heating coil should always be configured for the most aggressive heating profile it can achieve as the default when being used in the cap-as-switch mode, so that you could always back the vapcap tip off the switch contacts and use the push button to activate the heat for a cooler profile (depending on how far you back off), no?

One size rarely fits all in the DV community, and everyone wants something different. You describe a very logical way to set this up, but the last few years of selling these heaters has shown me that everyone has a different idea of "Dynavap perfection," and it is usually different than my own. It's also typically not as hot - I like it hot, I guess.

I try to avoid default setups that are overly aggressive, as combustion just pisses people off. It still happens sometimes - I'm working with a couple of customers with this issue presently - but I try to avoid it. This is why I have added a question to the order form about default coil height and preferred heater aggression. The bottom line is that I want my users to be happy with their heaters. If they want it hot, my heaters will give them HOT. If they want "LESS hot, goddammit!", that's also possible. And with PWM...quite a bit more is now also possible. :brow:

OK, that seems like a novel. Hopefully that helps explain my thinking on this. Once these are out there - an event currently in progress! - you can get more opinions on the merits of the stuff I mentioned.
 
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Eclipse

Well-Known Member
One more question. If you get both switches is it possible to deactivate the CaS?

I am thinking one use for both might be that it would be easier to use the button with the heater upside down with a bong rather than trying to line up the CaS perfectly upside down (this also may not be that difficult).
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
One more question. If you get both switches is it possible to deactivate the CaS?

I am thinking one use for both might be that it would be easier to use the button with the heater upside down with a bong rather than trying to line up the CaS perfectly upside down (this also may not be that difficult).

Thanks, that’s a good ‘use case’ for making the CaS contacts selectable. :)

There’s no way to selectively enable the contacts in v1.0. We’ll call that a feature request and see what we can do in the future. :tup:
 
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n0tu2

Well-Known Member
Thank you both for answering my questions. It all makes sense now. I agree with you that the default config should not be aggressive. Consider me convinced for CaS's default 'out of the box' config (unless it's requested extra spicy HOT) to avoid any smokey situations :)

Here are a couple more:

What happens if you press the push button while CaS is being actively engaged? Does it cancel the heating out, restart the cycle, or nothing..?

Also if using through water (upsidown) and the vc tip is just resting lightly on the CaS pads and being engaged with the push button instead -if accidentally engaging CaS- at this point, what happens?

Curious if any extra downward pressure for CaS version on a glass piece to heat may potentially cause damage to the glass or require some new way of holding things and pushing down at the same time (if no push button option is available)?

Thanks,

n
 
n0tu2,
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vapormachina

Well-Known Member
Good questions and sugestions. One of the reasons why I didn't choose the two options was because I am not sure about stop pressing the button and it doesn't respond because CaS is working. If you can switch between these two options it would be nice

Damn! now I'll have to buy the V2 Flite, and the V3 with the isollated hole😅😅
 
vapormachina,
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TommyDee

Vaporitor
CaS and the remote switch are wired in parallel. Either switch in use will take priority and firing continues. The functional circuit doesn't change at all by having both switches engaged. It is a closed circuit as long as either or both are engaged.
 

vapormachina

Well-Known Member
CaS and the remote switch are wired in parallel. Either switch in use will take priority and firing continues. The functional circuit doesn't change at all by having both switches engaged. It is a closed circuit as long as either or both are engaged.

So if I stop pressing the button, does the circuit stop even though the cap is touching the CaS?

interesting🤔🤔
 
vapormachina,

n0tu2

Well-Known Member
Good to know!

So I believe having both options in one unit is still somewhat of a win win. I was under the impression the CaS still requires very slight downward pressure to engage (albeit much less then a traditional pressure switch) while just resting the vc tip on the CaS contacts without any pressure will not engage (or may if you happen to hit a sweet spot?).

You could use CaS while natively hitting the DV while Flite is upright or the push button while Flite is upsidown on a glass piece. I can imagine pressing down too hard and snapping a weak glass bowl on certain rigs while using CaS only along with the weight of the Flite, if you are not careful.

The only true loss of having both is the most aggressive heating profile capable from having a push button only unit using the 2.0mm of extra space taken up by the CaS contacts, but this would still require coil position adjustment to achieve from the default standard profile I assume standard profile the bottom loop is level with the tip in both CaS or push button versions.

To resolve this for V2 maybe have user removable CaS contacts? Design the contacts to slip on and off a clip holder using tweezers or something :) Not needed though as I'd imagine you could rewrap the coil with one or two less wraps to have the bottom coil loop a little higher then the CaS contacts (1.5mm) forcing CaS default engaged mode to be more aggressive to begin with, a work around!

n
 
n0tu2,

DHV8654

Well-Known Member
Good questions and sugestions. One of the reasons why I didn't choose the two options was because I am not sure about stop pressing the button and it doesn't respond because CaS is working. If you can switch between these two options it would be nice

Damn! now I'll have to buy the V2 Flite, and the V3 with the isollated hole😅😅
Hopefully he will allow V1 owners to send it back for upgrades
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
So if I stop pressing the button, does the circuit stop even though the cap is touching the CaS?

interesting🤔🤔

Like @TommyDee said, the two switches are wired in parallel. As long as one is still making contact, the circuit is active. If you stop pressing the button but the cap is still touching the CaS, the circuit will continue to operate.

So I believe having both options in one unit is still somewhat of a win win. I was under the impression the CaS still requires very slight downward pressure to engage (albeit much less then a traditional pressure switch) while just resting the vc tip on the CaS contacts without any pressure will not engage (or may if you happen to hit a sweet spot?).

Actually, this is not true. The weight of the piece alone is enough to engage the heater with the CaS when the heater is resting on some flat surfaces and in some positions. I am not claiming this works 100% of the time or calling it out as a planned and intended feature, but it is a behavior most of the CaS owners will be able to enjoy if they want to. It's dependent on the smoothness of your cap, the angle at which you rest the DV, the exact way your contacts are installed, if you want this to occur, etc. It isn't as automatic at the Orion's reed switch, but the contacts are sensitive enough in most of the heaters I've built so far that you should be able to operate the heater by DV insertion alone if you want it to. Slight downward pressure is advised and makes the heater operate more reliably, but most heaters will allow this if you position your DV just right. Case in point: I will sometimes put the DV in the CaS Flite, dial the PWM to a light setting, and let it sit there for 30+ seconds until it clicks. It may take me a few tries to find the right position for this to work, but when I do - yeah, it works pretty well. Good stuff! :o

And by the way, the above CaS function is a bit more reliable in full power mode vs PWM, which seems to be touchier about "unweighted" operation. CaS needs a good connection for PWM to function smoothly.

To resolve this for V2 maybe have user removable CaS contacts? Design the contacts to slip on and off a clip holder using tweezers or something :) Not needed though as I'd imagine you could rewrap the coil with one or two less wraps to have the bottom coil loop a little higher then the CaS contacts (1.5mm) forcing CaS default engaged mode to be more aggressive to begin with, a work around!

Um...this is not very likely. Sorry.

Hopefully he will allow V1 owners to send it back for upgrades

Let me get batch 1 fully out the door before we start discussing v2, lol.

And on that note, I'm heading back down to the shop to continue processing orders. I'll check back later. :wave:
 
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vapormachina

Well-Known Member
I will sometimes put the DV in the CaS Flite, dial the PWM to a light setting, and let it sit there for 30+ seconds until it clicks. It may take me a few tries to find the right position for this to work, but when I do - yeah, it works pretty well. Good stuff! :o
I like how it sounds:brow::brow:

Now I understand. There were some translation problems :doh:
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
All things being equal, lightweight stems inclusive, I get a 50-50 hit on hands free. This cap is also dented and no specific maintenance. I've seen the tactile element of the relay shift the cap in hands free operation as well. That might be what Jeff is seeing.

As to vape sipping @n0tu2 - Love the technique! One bowl - one draw - one gnarly fucking hit! This is the pinacol of DV VC vaping. LOVE IT! ...when it works out. I know all the tricks and it kicks. Don't try that with CaS. I recommend manual switch modulation in order to feel the proper heat on your tongue or the vapor production in your glass. I doubt anyone does this for every session. CaS will interfere with this as you will not reliably stop heating with the manual switch and you will, in frustration, combust. This is the most delicate operation you could perform with your little heater in hand. However, that doesn't mean you can't do this with both options installed, CaS and remote switch. Since this technique doesn't care about ingress depth, you can use a 1mm thick insulator - cork will last for a while and silicon will last forever. Just drop a disk insulator into the chamber and you will bypass CaS for those occasions where it gets in the way. If you ordered both options, this addition of the insulator will be the exception rather than the normal use case. The convenience of CaS outweighs some fringe functionality. That doesn't mean it is impossible. Will and way and all that.
 
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forza_roma

Well-Known Member
Same here. Got shipment notice this morning.

Staying hopeful it'll come by this Saturday. Since From Cali to Ohio, probably take ~3 days.

For those that get it early, would love to hear your first impressions.

Happy New Year to you all!
 

mr_cfromcali

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Hi all,

I am almost done with shipping the first batch of Flite - I have another seven or so to complete and ship. I am pushing to finish those and get those in the mail before the end of the day today. If that doesn't happen, they'll go in the mail on Saturday, since tomorrow is New Years Day.

I have a few non-Fluxer things I absolutely have to deal with today, unfortunately. That is taking a few hours out of my day that I'd like back...

Looking ahead, I have some family obligations that are going to take over this weekend, so it is most likely that batch #2 will go on sale on Tuesday of next week. I'll firm this up with the specifics as we get closer to Tuesday.

Thank you all for your patience, and your support! I am very fortunate to have so much support for these efforts. Thank you!

Fluxer has several interesting projects in the works for 2021, thanks in large part to @TommyDee , and I am looking forward to sharing the details (and the products!) soon! In the meantime, I have plenty of Flite cases and parts on hand, and am looking forward to making more over the next several months, if not longer.

Finally, I want to wish everyone a safe and happy New Years, and safe New Years Eve celebrations! Here's hoping 2021 is a better year for all of us!

Cheers,
:leaf:
 
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