EU legal MJ aka CBD (< 0.3 % THC)

[Radwin Bodnic]

Even though a few European countries have legalized the real stuff, most of us European users rely either on black market, illegal growing or… legal cannabis containing less than 0.3 % THC (aka CBD or CBG flower, depending on the dominant cannabinoid).

These flowers are regular Cannabis Sativa L. They contain thousands of complex compounds, including a lot of aromatic molecules and are somewhat potent. (Well… maybe the reclaim in my vapes help a little with potency… )

A recent conversation on the Q&A thread on concentrates have raised a lot of questions that need their own thread. I'd be really happy if US folks could chime in because I'm sure your knowledge is several years ahead.


This is the last message from @Suki that raised more questions to me.

I believe they use CO2 to "wash" the THC away, I don't know if the process damages the trichomes but yeah I know that there are official strains from the EU catalog that breeders can choose from, still I've heard multiple times that the THC % varies a lot and unfortunately breeders (for those playing fair and not washing) sometimes have to harvest earlier than would be ideal simply to keep THC low enough that they won't break the law. The cannabis is a magical plant but now magical enough that genetics will give you a fixed and locked 0.3% of THC unfortunately, the laws around drugs are stupid if you ask me and this number 0.3 is meaningless. Even with the best photo period most stable genetics there still always be variation in the cannabinoids % and we're talking about multiple percents, not 0.1 or 0.2%. Still I'm sure there are decent farms with "quality" products (for 0.3% THC products anyway), but I think the good stuff is more around 1:1 ratio if we're talking about CBD and its actual potential therapeutic effects

I won't go over the washing part because if you except moonrocks and "boost" flowers (understand "glued with CBD isolate") I don't think you can remove a specific substance from the glands without breaking them and loosing their content. imho if the heads of the trichomes are intacts then they contain every substance the plant has produced before harvesting.

I do think growers may have to harvest early in order to lower the THC level in their products (or to maximize CBG level, because CBG is the precursor of all the others cannabinoids). However, a US grower proved me wrong in this forum and I think his post have been removed because I can't find it. He basically told me that it was all genetics.

Regarding therapeutic effects, I have found some quality CBD that does really well with arthritis pain relief. It is under 0.3% THC and I can definitely call it "good stuff". Pungent, frosty, tasty, potent.

What let me wondering is that there's very few official strains from the EU catalog, yet breeders offer a lot of different strains (maybe by cross-breeding official strains).
And I can tell for sure that these strains are not renamed official strains. Some growers even specify in the product page "this genetic is not issued from the European catalog". They are legit strains. I don' know how its possible that the authorities let them do this but I don't care because there are really good flowers out there.

So please EU folks, come and share your best legal and local cannabis strain here !
(I know germans will come here and brag about their legal stuff and honestly I'm really happy for you guys and gals, please share !)

I think that @DgN'R and myself can agree that the Blue Shao from Izno is a real wonder. (btw, have you tired some others of his strains ?)

Blue Shao :

 

[Chicken No Name]

Interesting.

I thought co2 extraction was more effective at stripping CBD rather than THC so I'm not sure that is what is used to reduce THC content on CBD flower as per @Suki thoughts.

And I would have thought any solvent extraction would be obvious with the lack of glands on the buds themselves. I'm not convinced.

I had assumed growers used low THC/high CBD varieties.
Would be interesting to get further understanding. Especially wrt concentrates. I'm unsure how they reduce the THC content for this. Perhaps this is where the co2 comes into play. Extract the CBD and add back to increase strength of the hash? I have no idea really.....

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/4-co2-carbon-dioxide-extraction-considerations-cannabis-hemp/

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

And I would have thought any solvent extraction would be obvious with the lack of glands on the buds themselves. I'm not convinced.

Exactly my thoughts.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/4-co2-carbon-dioxide-extraction-considerations-cannabis-hemp/

That's interesting ! Indeed, depending on pressure and temperature, CBD is either more or equally soluble in CO2 than THC. So if you reduce the cannabinoids content with CO2, you then need to put back CBD into your bud.
Moreover some growers specify that they don't reduce cannabinoids content on their products.

regarding CBD concentrates, I'm pretty sure that's CBD isolate and terpenes mixed with a neutral base material (some kind of wax ?)
Making concentrates will obviously give a THC level that is off the charts. So they have to isolate the compounds and then recreate something with only a few selected compounds.

 

[Chicken No Name]

regarding CBD concentrates, I'm pretty sure that's CBD isolate and terpenes mixed with a neutral base material (some kind of wax ?)
Making concentrates will obviously give a THC level that is off the charts. So they have to isolate the compounds and then recreate something with only a few selected compounds.
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm
I was recently gifted some CBD concentrate which I have mixed views on (taste and effects). Hearing this and @Suki thoughts have put me further off. May pass on to less concerned mates (I will inform them but I know they won't care).

 

[Vizyt91]

I think that @DgN'R and myself can agree that the Blue Shao from Izno is a real wonder. (btw, have you tired some others of his strains ?)

Hi mate,
You made me ordering a lil sample of the strains still in stock… i’ll report back in a few days , vape on

 

[Chicken No Name]

Hi mate,
You made me ordering a lil sample of the strains still in stock… i’ll report back in a few days , vape on

Nice!
I also looked but so little in stock. I will wait until after harvest and get some but look forward to your opinion!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Sad story is that most of the CBD isolate is actually made from limonene and all those new designer cannabinoids ,that are 100% delta 9 free are made out of such CBD , that crap has never touched the actual plant so that is why there isnt delta in those isolates .

 

[DgN'R]

When the sale of CBD flowers was first introduced in france, it is true that it was recurrent to proceed in this way, moreover many stores were transparent about the fact that the flowers were washed (with added chemical terpenes) because this was generally produced in switzerland or in italy which have a different legislation from ours so the product had to be washed to integrate the french market. I too have heard some crazy stories on this subject, farmers who had to burn all their harvest because it had analyzed with a THC level higher than expected (despite the fact that they are authorized varieties in the country in question).

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I tried out a lot of stores when CBD was taking off in France, and was very disappointed (I even threw out lots of flowers and some S&B plastic grinders because the chemical smell had permeated them ).

At the time, I believe the maximum THC level in France was 0.2%, which also limited the authorized varieties, but today we're back to 0.3%, which means we can have a little more variety to work.

But today, I don't really know how it works. For example, is it possible to select an authorized variety from the European catalog for breeding varietal improvement purposes (maybe that's why some people post 'this genetic is not issued from the European catalog' but is still authorized because it comes from one or more varieties authorized at the outset?), or do you have to sow only seeds purchased from an authorized supplier? the question should be put directly to the people involved in this field (I'll try to contact izno to find out more, as their website clearly states that these are registered varieties from the European catalog ).

But honestly I wouldn't be surprised to find CBD flowers with a THC level higher than 0.3% in France, I think that many stores probably have a shelf of them because it is impossible to analyze them all on each harvest. Yes, the law is stupid! This has happened to many CBD flower retailers. By the way, the analysis I received from izno dates from october 2022.

Concerning izno farm, when I read your message about it, I still wanted to give it a chance and I'm really not disappointed, these flowers are of a remarkable quality and remind me very much of Khalifa Genetics flowers in taste, of course, gustatively speaking it's clear that we're really on tasting CBD (compared to what I've tasted). Even today, it's the best CBD flower I've had the chance to taste, and thanks again for that . It guarantees it's CBD flowers without lowering and without addition of chemical terpenes, which is a huge plus in addition to being produced in France in a holy environment with a lot of love. No wonder izno has won many CBD cups!

Personally, I think terpenes play a very important role in the effect too. If you don't like what you taste, the receivers will certainly mislead you, I once got a very good Aladdin's Skunk from Khalifa Genetics, which was very pineapple-flavoured (really strong) and despite a decent THC level I didn't enjoy it at all because of its taste (and I felt very little of the effect compared to its big sister, Désert Skunk, which I fully appreciated both in taste and effect). I don't know if that makes sense? It's the first time I've found an herb that I didn't really appreciate, although some people around me love it. I think you really have to experience it to realize it.

I think that's also why izno herb is fantastic, because I really appreciate the terpenes of all the ones I've tried, and despite a very low THC level, a certain relaxation comes over me. If you've tried CBD and weren't satisfied like many of us, you might want to try izno farm because it's a real winner for me and it's great for people who want to stay within the law (or who unfortunately have no other choice). Izno herb is really good

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

(I'll try to contact izno to find out more, as their website clearly states that these are registered varieties from the European catalog ).

Funny enough, I've sent I'm an email this morning asking him these exact questions...

By the way, the analysis I received from izno dates from october 2022.

Yeah, mine was old too. But maybe we should stay quiet about it. We don't want Izno to get in potential trouble...

Even today, it's the best CBD flower I've had the chance to taste, and thanks again for that .

Me too, and by a huge margin. I've also been impressed by the excellent drying and curing. The flower vapes extremely well and smooth and the taste is acute and intense.

I will wait until after harvest and get some but look forward to your opinion!

Yeah, me too ! I can tell that when he harvests this fall I'm in for a year worth of flower (and hash ).

In the meantime I've been looking at farmers that grow Izno's genetics amongst other ones...
Le Chanvre du Griffoul and Les botanistes en herbe looks very promising...

 

[Suki]

I agree with @DgN'R that things are evolving quickly, as you said there are probably CBD products everywhere with more than 0.3% THC, it is hard and costly to test and analyze and even after harvest with drying and curing these number don't stay the same either.

funny you mention that it reminds you of Khalifa genetics because they are working together it seems

terps for sure play a very big role! I think it is especially true when you're vaporizing because you can taste the weed for much more than when you smoke. I've found that some strains I don't like the terps, and while it wasn't a problem when I was smoking, I'm now much more selective about the terpene profiles. I think I've heard recently that the difference in high between indica and sativa is only because of terpenes

 

[DgN'R]

Funny enough, I've sent I'm an email this morning asking him these exact questions...

All right that's cool! Please keep us informed here

 

[DgN'R]

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Sounds interesting too, they collaborated with izno on the pink garlic CBG (picture below) apparently. You can choose the type of manicure to save a bit of money if you wish, I think that's nice but I haven't tried it yet.



I personally find it rather light in terms of taste but incredibly relaxing! My favorite is the blue shao and the hashcream from izno for taste and relaxation. I got 3 grams as a gift which was really very good but I don't know what it is because it wasn't specified on the bag..

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

Les Frères Canna - Producteurs de CBD BIO en France

Les Frères Canna vos producteurs de Fleurs de CBD Bio et Résines de CBD BIO 100% fait en France. Venez découvrir nos fleurs et notre passion.

lesfrerescanna.fr

Sounds interesting too, they collaborated with izno on the pink garlic CBG (picture below) apparently. You can choose the type of manicure to save a bit of money if you wish, I think that's nice but I haven't tried it yet.



I personally find it rather light in terms of taste but incredibly relaxing! My favorite is the blue shao and the hashcream from izno for taste and relaxation. I got 3 grams as a gift which was really very good but I don't know what it is because it wasn't specified on the bag..

To add to my current confusion about CBD / CBG breeding and growing, this grower say on its website from which official cultivar come their flowers.

Example : sour blueberry kush comes from the Kompolti variety. What does that even mean ?! A few farmers are growing this Sour blueberry kush from Izno, so it might be something else than straight kompolti. (I've had kompolti in the past and while it was a good flower, it didn't looked neither tasted like the SBBK I have from Izno. Far from it.)

From an other grower : they specify the parents of the flower they sell, e.g. SBBK x Purple Shao. (I have to try this one btw).

So that's not a cultivar from the EU catalog anymore...

Or maybe they're only selecting phenotypes from official cultivar and then cross breed between these phenotypes ? But doing that way in a few generations it will be very different from the original cultivar...

Anyway, that's too much speculation for me. I'll wait for Izno's answer or I'll ask another grower.

 

[DgN'R]

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing, actually.. I can't wait to see what izno has to say about this

 

[Piecho]

I tried some good Swiss CBDs recently

 

[Vizyt91]

I tried some good Swiss CBDs recently

I believe swiss cbd weed contains <1% thc (not légal in France ), do you live in France ?

 

[Loa]

Regarding Swiss producers, I have found this website, which has <1% THC:
https://swissbotanic.eu/

They also have an international version with <0.3% THC:

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Best CBD flowers I've tried is from www.swissbotanic.com (<0.3%). I have a small suspicion that it still could be <1% THC, even if it's listed as <0.3%. That is because it seems that they used their original packaging for the swiss market, which has <1% printed on it and they just glued a sticker over it which says <0.3% THC. Also, the package that I've received was packed really nice and stealthy, had some fragrances in it. Would it be necessary to go trough with these stealthy methods if it was truly and fully <0.3% THC? I'm not exactly complaining, but I am ambiguous.

Mind you, I've been in the CBD game only for 6 months and all CBD that I've tried is <2eur/g, so I have not tried more expensive growers from Austria and such.

I have also tried justbob and theswisshemp.
Justbob is dirt cheap, but lacks flavor and appears to be extracted of volatiles, was super dry and smelled of nothing.
Theswisshemp is quite OK, but I have my suspicions that it could be <1% thc, instead of <0.3%. They list THC percentage as <0.03% on their website, while at the same time disclaiming that it is <1% according to swiss law. Very confusing, although <1% could techically still be <0.3%, but very unlikely to be <0.03%.

Anyone has some good price:quality ratio suggestions?

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

Anyone has some good price:quality ratio suggestions?

I've learn that when it comes to food, low price never equal good quality. (Believe me I'm a farm worker).

I don't know how it could be different for weed...

 

[Loa]

I've learn that when it comes to food, low price never equal good quality. (Believe me I'm a farm worker).

I don't know how it could be different for weed...

Tomatoes don't cost 1 euro/gram. Maybe top shelf organic/biodynamic tomatoes could cost 20 euro/kg. So I feel you should be able to get some amazing deals for untrimmed small buds without any shady growing practices, if there were more producers. I don't think my recommended supplier swissbotanic.eu grows the same way as www.prannabis.com, with their living soil, but I hope that they at least minimize their use of pesticides/herbicides/growth hormones.

OK, I do get your point!

I guess my question about qualityrice is better addressed in the thread https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/cbd-cannabis-uk-eu.26505/
I also agree with the glowing review by Krokowa of "Nano Nuggs Afghan Kush by Swiss Botanic" posted on page 6 of that thread. I think that this particular product is not extracted/"washed" of anything. But that raised some questions, like why are there two websites with same or very similar products with different THC levels listed. Are these guys on top of their game or are they simply lenient with the law and willing to risk the consumer getting into legal trouble for bud that is slightly above 0.3% THC.

Thank you for your answer and this thread!

 

[Piecho]

I believe swiss cbd weed contains <1% thc (not légal in France ), do you live in France ?

Spain, it's 0.2% limit flower.

 

[Marko94]

Wow, this thread is interesting to read.
Btw, hopefully is good place to ask. But please, can someone recommend me some good online EU stores to order CBD flowers ( legal ofc, 0.2; 0.3) thanks

 

[Suki]

I've tried the "Nano Nuggs Afghan Kush by Swiss Botanic" and I wasn't impressed, yes they are better than most of what you can find but still..

the best CBD flowers I've had (and maybe one of the only CBD flower that didn't give me a weird after taste) were from jungle-farm.ch but they are not legal for EU countries, they only ship to Switzerland and France I believe, their flowers have very good terps and the THC % is between 0.4 and 0.9% but still I understand some people want to stay within legality (but I believe these people don't understand that you can still lose your driving license by consuming legal CBD, only 1g of 0.2% THC smoked (not even vaped) will get you positive to saliva tests). I recommend looking at NORML France if you're french, they have a discord server with a lot of information about these things as well as legal advice if you become a member.

I've tried quite a lot of CBD flowers but I think it is not for me, I will try some higher ratio someday like 1:1 and I do understand that the costs are about the same to grow either THC or CBD flowers but to me it seems wrong that they are sold the same price or even at higher price than THC flowers (in legal countries) or THC flowers from the black market, from a medical point of view, the therapeutic effects of CBD flowers are but a fraction of what THC flowers can offer (in my case at least). I have a chronic autoimune disease and I need between 3 to 5 grams of high THC flowers vaporized everyday to function properly so I understand I'm not the average cannabis user

 

[Rodney]

Wow, this thread is interesting to read.
Btw, hopefully is good place to ask. But please, can someone recommend me some good online EU stores to order CBD flowers ( legal ofc, 0.2; 0.3) thanks

I use moonbarguy, is uk based.

 

[Marko94]

I use moonbarguy, is uk based.

It is only for UK no delivery to my country

 

[Loa]

I and some friends do aggree that there is an aftertaste of "Nano Nuggs Afghan Kush by Swiss Botanic", especially if smoked instead of vaped. The unpleasant aftertaste sticks in your mouth for quite a while. It is not a horrible taste, but it does not feel right. I wonder where is it coming from? The aftertaste could be expected if the product was wet or mouldy, but the appearance of the bud is spottless and the humidity seems just right.