DIY Induction Heater Builds and References
- Thread starter TommyDee
- Start date
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Out of curiosity Tommy since you have a few aftermarket induction heaters which one do you find gives the most even cook and comes the closest to respecting the click? I've heard the wand runs too hot and is easy to combust just curious your opinion on that one and the others that you feel is the most even
TommyDee
Vaporitor
There is a premise in your question that is not accurate - tuning an IH changes when the cap clicks.
Let us first address tuning - Tune to the -second- heating -after- a forced cooldown click on the first heating.
The reason for this is the stored heat from the first heating. If you tuned for an optimal draw on the first bake, you will combust on the second. This was evident when George explained how to get the most from your vapcap;
'Heat to the click (small draw optional); cool to the cooldown click on the magnet; heat to the click; draw like heck w/ air port wide open.' And he guarantees this will deliver the perfect draw.
I don't subscribe to the air port part and of course I will take the first draw. But in general, there is wisdom in George's reveal.
So when does a cap click? Well, actually the click is a follower. The clicker clicks when the heat finally gets there, traveling though the walls of the cap. Therefore, where the heat from the IH or a lighter is centered on the cap, that is where the heat propagates from. Closer to digger is a longer delay for the heat to reach the clicker since the distance is longer. This is critical to know about induction heaters. There is a definite hot zone in the center of the coil. This is where the cap discolors the most from heating with an IH.
Where heating with a flame matters, so does the heating with the IH. Most IH's don't recognize the depth of insertion. A few, like Pipes and Fluxer Heaters have allowed fine tuning by changing the height of the coil in relation to the actuation switch. For small coil heaters, this variation is measured in millimeters. For more generous coil diameters like the Wand, this is more forgiving but not by much.
The second part of the tune is less critical and is very much geared to user preference - this is watts. Most IHs pull about 1.5 amps without a cap inserted (actuated however) and they can pull anywhere from 2.5A to well over 8A depending on cap being inserted. This translates to a range from 30 watts to well over 90 watts. This is a real problem for makers but it is manageable if you consider the battery's voltage range for portables. I find that heaters pulling more than 70 watts tend to put a lot of fresh reclaim on the walls of the condenser or the stem forcing a lot of cleaning of some very blond reclaim. Excess wattage can also make every cap act differently using the same settings. Orion, for instance, didn't do justice to my caps where my Fluxer Flite will heat every tip roughly the same at the click. All of my heaters are tuned to less than 70 watts and are repeatable across my growing collection of caps.
In tuning, you first determine the wattage you need. Gentle bakes are 45-50 watts where my level of aggressiveness is limited to 70 watts max. My reclaim is dark deep red and a rare event to need a cleaning (when the reclaim reaches the lips). And my habit is a good 1/2-1 gram of flower per day. Tuning is mostly done with the number of winds in the coil. Don't cut the wire but do reduce the coil count if you want less current draw with the cap inserted. Again, caps vary all over the map so you need to accept a range. Use your hottest cap as a guide.
Once the wattage is tuned, set the click temperature by ingress depth adjustment. Deeper ingress means more delay of heat getting to the clicker, and means more heat/bake. Again, as explained above, tune to the second heating. You can take the second draw to the edge for the most cloud and thickest vape. Subsequent draws are all on a downward spiral for enjoyment. This is where I employ master Piggies sip&dip by continuously adding heat until I get that 'done' signal which is different for everyone. Therefore, I always get 3 hits. That 3rd one is for my medicine so I choose to maximize my extraction. I do get some scorching but that is necessary for the heavier molecules.
Now your question regarding the Wand - it cannot be too hot since it doesn't have a ingress adjustment. If you use an available adapter, your stuck with 'their' tune. I don't like any of the adapters. I have a 7/8" wooden disk in the bottom with a cork dot from Joann's. This tune is similar to my other IHs. The Wand is also a fairly tame heater so the wattage question is answered by a "well within the desired range". HotShot and Brute from Pipes were tuned perfectly and identical. No adjustments needed for me. I helped tune the Fluxer Flites; mine is perfect and still my fav.
These are the nits that a lot of heaters don't allow as variables. This is why we build our own. Having to 'hold you mouth right' to get a good hit just doesn't cut it for me.
Let us first address tuning - Tune to the -second- heating -after- a forced cooldown click on the first heating.
The reason for this is the stored heat from the first heating. If you tuned for an optimal draw on the first bake, you will combust on the second. This was evident when George explained how to get the most from your vapcap;
'Heat to the click (small draw optional); cool to the cooldown click on the magnet; heat to the click; draw like heck w/ air port wide open.' And he guarantees this will deliver the perfect draw.
I don't subscribe to the air port part and of course I will take the first draw. But in general, there is wisdom in George's reveal.
So when does a cap click? Well, actually the click is a follower. The clicker clicks when the heat finally gets there, traveling though the walls of the cap. Therefore, where the heat from the IH or a lighter is centered on the cap, that is where the heat propagates from. Closer to digger is a longer delay for the heat to reach the clicker since the distance is longer. This is critical to know about induction heaters. There is a definite hot zone in the center of the coil. This is where the cap discolors the most from heating with an IH.
Where heating with a flame matters, so does the heating with the IH. Most IH's don't recognize the depth of insertion. A few, like Pipes and Fluxer Heaters have allowed fine tuning by changing the height of the coil in relation to the actuation switch. For small coil heaters, this variation is measured in millimeters. For more generous coil diameters like the Wand, this is more forgiving but not by much.
The second part of the tune is less critical and is very much geared to user preference - this is watts. Most IHs pull about 1.5 amps without a cap inserted (actuated however) and they can pull anywhere from 2.5A to well over 8A depending on cap being inserted. This translates to a range from 30 watts to well over 90 watts. This is a real problem for makers but it is manageable if you consider the battery's voltage range for portables. I find that heaters pulling more than 70 watts tend to put a lot of fresh reclaim on the walls of the condenser or the stem forcing a lot of cleaning of some very blond reclaim. Excess wattage can also make every cap act differently using the same settings. Orion, for instance, didn't do justice to my caps where my Fluxer Flite will heat every tip roughly the same at the click. All of my heaters are tuned to less than 70 watts and are repeatable across my growing collection of caps.
In tuning, you first determine the wattage you need. Gentle bakes are 45-50 watts where my level of aggressiveness is limited to 70 watts max. My reclaim is dark deep red and a rare event to need a cleaning (when the reclaim reaches the lips). And my habit is a good 1/2-1 gram of flower per day. Tuning is mostly done with the number of winds in the coil. Don't cut the wire but do reduce the coil count if you want less current draw with the cap inserted. Again, caps vary all over the map so you need to accept a range. Use your hottest cap as a guide.
Once the wattage is tuned, set the click temperature by ingress depth adjustment. Deeper ingress means more delay of heat getting to the clicker, and means more heat/bake. Again, as explained above, tune to the second heating. You can take the second draw to the edge for the most cloud and thickest vape. Subsequent draws are all on a downward spiral for enjoyment. This is where I employ master Piggies sip&dip by continuously adding heat until I get that 'done' signal which is different for everyone. Therefore, I always get 3 hits. That 3rd one is for my medicine so I choose to maximize my extraction. I do get some scorching but that is necessary for the heavier molecules.
Now your question regarding the Wand - it cannot be too hot since it doesn't have a ingress adjustment. If you use an available adapter, your stuck with 'their' tune. I don't like any of the adapters. I have a 7/8" wooden disk in the bottom with a cork dot from Joann's. This tune is similar to my other IHs. The Wand is also a fairly tame heater so the wattage question is answered by a "well within the desired range". HotShot and Brute from Pipes were tuned perfectly and identical. No adjustments needed for me. I helped tune the Fluxer Flites; mine is perfect and still my fav.
These are the nits that a lot of heaters don't allow as variables. This is why we build our own. Having to 'hold you mouth right' to get a good hit just doesn't cut it for me.
RustyOldNail
SEARCH for the treasure...
POST #653 = BOOKMARK
Well written and informative TD, nice job, send folks to your post above, to UNDERSTAND IH tuning!
Well written and informative TD, nice job, send folks to your post above, to UNDERSTAND IH tuning!
TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
I second what Rusty said. Top job TD!
One of the "features" I really enjoy about the wand with no insert, is how it can be used like a torch.
Adjusting the temperature of the click is as easy as heating lower or higher on the cap.
Can respect the click and still get that scorched vapor medicinal hit.
One of the "features" I really enjoy about the wand with no insert, is how it can be used like a torch.
Adjusting the temperature of the click is as easy as heating lower or higher on the cap.
Can respect the click and still get that scorched vapor medicinal hit.
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
First of all wow Tommy!
I mean just that post alone has to be a sticky because that is such valuable information for a lot of DIYers.
Very valid point on the second hit I was thinking about the first click but you're absolutely correct now that I think about it it only makes sense.
I think the main reason why I'm so interested in doing the DIY deal instead of spending the money on a aftermarket unit I mean realistically it cost me $62 out the door with ZVS, adjustable voltage power supply, a plug-in watt reading meter, wire.
So although not all those parts are absolutely not needed the way I'm looking at it is I could have spent an extra 40 bucks and have a complete unit or I could build one and if it works out I can fine-tune it very nicely because of the adjustable power supply and then when I go purchase a unit for portability because I don't really have no desire to make a battery one I at least have an idea of what the expectation should be with a IH.
One thing that has me curious as for the coil itself I know you could take a wrap off or so and lower the wattage, I would be curious what would happen if you say went 3/4 of the way down the coil and you just separated a few of them so there's a bigger gap, what would that do to the wattage? The reason I ask is I can see this being beneficial if you wanted less heat towards the top of the cap but say if the DynaVap went too deep into the stem and was heating that? Not sure if that makes sense?
As for the one I can never understand how people were saying it clicked too fast and all that because it's adjustable temperature which I kind of heard it was not really accurate at all but it's an open design so I couldn't figure out how you couldn't adjust it like a torch like the other poster said above. I'll have to say that it's also nice to hear that member pipes has a tuned unit where people don't have to fidget with too much they're actually paying for something that performs as they expect
Was pretty excited to get everything put together today but Jeff bezos screwed me and my package is lost lol have another one coming in
I mean just that post alone has to be a sticky because that is such valuable information for a lot of DIYers.
Very valid point on the second hit I was thinking about the first click but you're absolutely correct now that I think about it it only makes sense.
I think the main reason why I'm so interested in doing the DIY deal instead of spending the money on a aftermarket unit I mean realistically it cost me $62 out the door with ZVS, adjustable voltage power supply, a plug-in watt reading meter, wire.
So although not all those parts are absolutely not needed the way I'm looking at it is I could have spent an extra 40 bucks and have a complete unit or I could build one and if it works out I can fine-tune it very nicely because of the adjustable power supply and then when I go purchase a unit for portability because I don't really have no desire to make a battery one I at least have an idea of what the expectation should be with a IH.
One thing that has me curious as for the coil itself I know you could take a wrap off or so and lower the wattage, I would be curious what would happen if you say went 3/4 of the way down the coil and you just separated a few of them so there's a bigger gap, what would that do to the wattage? The reason I ask is I can see this being beneficial if you wanted less heat towards the top of the cap but say if the DynaVap went too deep into the stem and was heating that? Not sure if that makes sense?
As for the one I can never understand how people were saying it clicked too fast and all that because it's adjustable temperature which I kind of heard it was not really accurate at all but it's an open design so I couldn't figure out how you couldn't adjust it like a torch like the other poster said above. I'll have to say that it's also nice to hear that member pipes has a tuned unit where people don't have to fidget with too much they're actually paying for something that performs as they expect
Was pretty excited to get everything put together today but Jeff bezos screwed me and my package is lost lol have another one coming in
badbee
Well-Known Member
@PutOneInTheAir , I'm another big fan of the Wand. I've built several IH's and love talking to people about building them but the Wand is what gets used day to day. I bought it impulsively and worried it was a mistake, it wasn't, it's great. Like many others I don't bother with an insert, I just freehand it over the VC where it's mounted on a bubbler. I much prefer bringing the IH to the VC rather than having to dip into a box, flip over and then insert into the glass. There were a few combustion events in the early days but that is rare now that I have the hang of it.
I have the stand but never used it again after the first try, it's not worth paying for.
I have the stand but never used it again after the first try, it's not worth paying for.
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Thank you very much for the feedback and that was very helpful to not waste the money on the stand or anything like that. I agree I think I would prefer to use it like you like a torch with more control.
I am 95% sure I'm going to end up with the wand I do like the VHB and it's very very highly talked about but I do like the removable batteries of the wand and I also like the fact that you could do other things besides DynaVap plus they seem to have a lot of good sales
badbee
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we are so close to 4/20 you will be better off waiting. I got mine with a Black Friday deal for I think $120, it might go close to that again (plus a premium for the world economy going to hell). I might not like my Wand quite as much if I had paid full retail.
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Yeah I seen that deal It was a good one, I've been kicking myself in the butt since
Even VHB had a sale at that time
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Typical induction coils for industry do have space in between the wraps. Our tightly wound coils are a matter of putting a lot of copper in a small space. basically, the circuit is tuned to a specific wire gauge at a specific length. In our case, we use 12 gauge at 33" long for 12V operation. Turns out that voltage and coil length are very much related. This means you can lower the voltage as you shorten the wire and still draw the same watts.
Now your solution for loosely winding on the clicker end of the cap will move the hot zone toward the digger outer tab. There are varied options for coil designers to target the magnetic field specifically. A science way beyond my pay grade. However, I am a fan of taking any extra length of coil wire and wrapping it on the outside of the coil. This is the simple way to make the best of what you have - a large wire gauge coil that stays relatively cool with our intermittent use case. Now if heat wasn't a matter, you could explore 14 awg, even 15 or 16 awg. There is a stability element.
I missed answering your earlier question though - Yes, I find the ZVS circuit to be very robust with few caveats. The coil must be soldered on. Any transient on the output can raise the output voltage and blow the FETs. Most of the time this is a very unceremonious death. It also depends on a decent supply voltage minding the 5V minimum. Around 2 - 4V, FETs don't always do what they should be doing. This is a minimum gate drive voltage issue. Of all the modules I've built or converted, I may have lost 1 to unknown circumstances.
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
So got my ZVS And I noticed the coil is tight and basically this causes the arms that you solder to come really close to the sorry for sounding dumb but the two around things on top that are wrapped in copper. Is there any issue with that If they did touch somehow? I tried to bend them out as much as possible
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Okay I just wasn't sure because I was surprised how close it was to those two round things on top (can you please tell me what those are by the way)
That meter seems to work pretty fine also with the plug-in I checked my SJK induction heater and it was bouncing between 60 and 75ish with the cap in
Green Kiwi
Well-Known Member
Totally ,in agreement TD!
Thats how I "tuned "my own diy.
Also thickness of wire coming from 'momentary switch' ,can be used for tuning
.
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
So I hooked up the wires just real quick and everything works I have the variable voltage power supply and I'm checking the wattage and in order for me to get to about 60 watts I'm running almost 10 amps. Does that sound about right? Or maybe the wattage meter is off or power supply I guess.
Has a general rule of thumb how many seconds would you say is pretty good for the cap to heat the first go and how many seconds on the second go just trying to get a baseline
Has a general rule of thumb how many seconds would you say is pretty good for the cap to heat the first go and how many seconds on the second go just trying to get a baseline
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Those donut things are inductors, or as we use to call them, chokes. They convert electricity to magnetism and back to electricity again.
60 watts with the vapcap inserted? 10 amps? just checking. 1.5 amps (20 watts) when putting power to the module without the vapcap - may 4-5 amps (50-60 watts) with the vapcap... up around 12V.
You had the coil installed before powering it up, right?
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PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Thank you.
What do you think about me having to run that voltage meter so high to get my wattage up to about 60w pretty close to 10 volts (about 6 seconds after the first click)
It just seems like that is pretty allegedly high voltage for only 60 watts.
And I do have a switch that that plug runs off of so it's not on all the time.lol
post pics
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Oh good, no, 10V is often a very good place to land. 60 watts is only 6 amps at 10 volts... Remember that the power supply's inefficiency also has to be accounted for at the wall plug meter.
Curiosity question; what cap are you cooking with?
Solder that coil to the board as soon as convenient. Those damn connectors have killed a hoard of ZVS' prematurely.
Curiosity question; what cap are you cooking with?
Solder that coil to the board as soon as convenient. Those damn connectors have killed a hoard of ZVS' prematurely.
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PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
2019 stainless steel tip
Captive cap
I wasn't thinking about it that way okay so that sounds right in the ballpark 60 watts equaling 6 amps I didn't really push it past that cuz I wasn't sure.
I was wondering if I could get your input on at least few more things if you don't mind?
I noticed my ABV was still in the lighter side of tan color. I usually like a medium roast when I'm using a torch. Little vapor production effects there though.
So the other thing I'm wondering is I've been sticking the DynaVap just until the bottom of the cap so basically using the bottom of the cap has a guideline for the top of the coil, The coil is far too big for the DynaVap so if I stick it all the way in since I'm using a stainless steel one it's going to get really hot on the stem. I'm not understanding how people always talk about lowering the DynaVap to get less heat on the tip with these coils but they're so big it covers the whole tip no matter what?
On a side note I noticed something kind of interesting when my cap clicks it always has two clicks with induction heater they happen exactly at the same time
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
You got a decent cap, as far as induction coupling goes. Also the perfect tip IMHO.
My starting point for click level tuning is the bottom of the coil flush with the flat of the cap. Deeper means more delay for heat to reach the clicker. Delay means more induction heat injected into the cap. This is preference tuning. Most caps will respond very similarly. Keeping the power level under control, say under 70 watts, is what makes caps behave similarly. All my caps are tuned to all my IHs... seriously.
The power level is the voltage control. You pick your 'pace' of heating. There is no honor in a fast bake. You want what the flower will give up, you are on its pace. And detuning with voltage control is the optimum way to experience exactly what you want.
Flame heating is a point source. IH is a radial source - multi-flame
My starting point for click level tuning is the bottom of the coil flush with the flat of the cap. Deeper means more delay for heat to reach the clicker. Delay means more induction heat injected into the cap. This is preference tuning. Most caps will respond very similarly. Keeping the power level under control, say under 70 watts, is what makes caps behave similarly. All my caps are tuned to all my IHs... seriously.
The power level is the voltage control. You pick your 'pace' of heating. There is no honor in a fast bake. You want what the flower will give up, you are on its pace. And detuning with voltage control is the optimum way to experience exactly what you want.
Flame heating is a point source. IH is a radial source - multi-flame
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
The only thing I'm having a hard time figure now is if I put the cap to the bottom of the coil then I'm basically in the induction heater with my stem and it gets really hot. And if I back it out then it seems like the cap clicks too soon.
Maybe some thin copper too cringe down the coils more?
PutOneInTheAir
E-nano, DynaVaps, v3pro, ROFFU
Update! So I got home from work I used some of the copper wire that I had from the power supply wiring. I tighten the coils, fired her up had 10.5 volts which was about 62-65 watts on my other meter.
Put the induction heater so it was easy to see the tip of the cap coming through stuck it out about a an eighth of an inch and, And did definitely hit hard I thought maybe I combusted so I checked ABV perfectly golden green, went for round two still taking a decent amount of time got a little distracted It clicked I pulled out got another huge hit check the ABV definitely riding that line of combustion like a dark roast coffee color no ash (honestly I don't even know if that's combustion or not in vape terms) but I definitely learned to respect the click and squeezing the coils together definitely made a big difference I think I might turn down the voltage a little bit if my next run is that dark.
I could definitely see why people actually build diy it's so customizable especially with the variable voltage
Put the induction heater so it was easy to see the tip of the cap coming through stuck it out about a an eighth of an inch and, And did definitely hit hard I thought maybe I combusted so I checked ABV perfectly golden green, went for round two still taking a decent amount of time got a little distracted It clicked I pulled out got another huge hit check the ABV definitely riding that line of combustion like a dark roast coffee color no ash (honestly I don't even know if that's combustion or not in vape terms) but I definitely learned to respect the click and squeezing the coils together definitely made a big difference I think I might turn down the voltage a little bit if my next run is that dark.
I could definitely see why people actually build diy it's so customizable especially with the variable voltage
510vaporent
Well-Known Member
I don't know much about induction heaters but I'm curious if anyone here has ever tried to use one with a titanium nectar collector? I'm thinking a 10mm titanium nectar collector might be able to get hot enough?