Divine Tribe atty's

Steven

Well-Known Member
Me as well. These new medium and large donuts keep amazing me. I think the large donut is going to be a killer once the cup is revised. The large donut performs like a tank but only when the lead posts are already clogged I think. I notice a "break in" period after every thorough cleaning. Thus, I actually let my large donuts build up for a while. Once it gets a bit bad I do the same cleaning techniques as the v2.5 on the v3 but with the outer housing off. I'll clean it this way 2-3 times and then the dark cup will bother me too much and will end off cleaning it with the burner on my kitchen stove. I don't have torches anymore.

I'm really looking forward to the new cup heaters but I'm very happy with the new gear as well. I blow out very comparable clouds to my friends with rig hits. I do have big lungs though.
 
Steven,

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
I'll wager that the sensor in most smartphones could pull off an FLIR style readout... I wonder if anyone has done it yet. Then I'd have a better sense of how these TCR curves actually stack up with the different values. I'm currently running @ a TCR value of 180, I've also used 210 and 245... typically all around the 20-22W range.
Our cell phones, alone, are not there yet. There are dongles that you can attach to your phone that will provide that capability.

http://flir.com/flirone/ios/?pi_ad_id={creative}&gclid=COH_xqDV2M8CFUtNfgodMcwNXA
 
Tranquility,

looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
Our cell phones, alone, are not there yet. There are dongles that you can attach to your phone that will provide that capability.

http://flir.com/flirone/ios/?pi_ad_id={creative}&gclid=COH_xqDV2M8CFUtNfgodMcwNXA

I remember one of the camera companies marketed a version of their camera with the IR filter removed and it worked great, this was a number of years ago. But compared to their previous pricing for the FLiR units, $250 isn't bad, going to dive into their faq's and manuals and see if you can declare and area for sampling/averaging over time. Thanks for the link!

Oh well, this unit caps out around 240F.

THIS unit that will cover the temp (up to around 720F if I recall correctly), but have still to read up on measuring/averaging an area over time (hopefully it includes a curve display with upper and lower limits) - http://flir.com/instruments/tg165/ .
 
Last edited:

fernand

Well-Known Member
The measurement of temperature on a small wire-in-ceramic heater is tricky enough that NASA got involved.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990021237.pdf

@Vape Donkey 650 personally I do care more about the resulting temp of the oil than the incidental temp of heater elements involved. But I would think that with the good thermal conductivity of these ceramics and the thin barriers involved, the difference between the average temp of a donut and the temp of oil that it heats isn't huge.

The medium-sized donut in the medium cup is more to my taste than the big original V3. The TCR seems to be similar to the V2 units, 220 works OK on the eVic mini VTC. Also ceramic/alumina cups/crucibles can be used on the medium donut much better than on the big one, using a wire screen of some sort to keep it down on the donut.

I just spent more time trying to "normalize" IR readings, trying different thermocouple mounting tricks with a "naked" clean white donut, and I'm leaning towards a slightly higher emissivity on the IR gun to match thermocouple readings, more than 0.50, maybe 0.65 ? 70 ? Published data for alumina ceramic is 0.45-0.70, but to make things harder emissivity changes with temperature.
 

matthend

Well-Known Member
Ok just got my v3, before I squish something yummy, what should I run this at on an Istick tc40?
 
matthend,

Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
Did some more testing last night, definitely gets easier with practice :tup: Still removing the base cover to load. If I had a more stable product I could probably load without doing this, but the PHO sugar wax I have is only stable for a very short time after I take it out of the fridge/freezer. However with this sticky af PHO it's easiest to just smear some around on the donut, and it works really well this way. I get 2-4 hits, bigger clouds than 2.x for sure.

I'm still using it on the eVic Basic by Joytech. Solid mini-mod, definitely the best that size. Runs laps around C.O.V. minivolt & Artery Nugget! I'm using TCR set to 240 or 245 & temp 390-420. After I clear the load the empty hit just tastes like hot air, no weird reclaimy flavor or rubber/silicone smell at all!

One thought I have is maybe just making the base & mouthpiece one piece that slides off and on over some o-rings on the bottom, as opposed to two separate pieces, though I could see advantages to both those approaches. I'm only using one screw in the bottom now to make reloading easier. Think I'll get to do some more extensive "testing" this weekend :rockon: hopefully enough to warrant a cleaning so I can comment on that process as well.

The black ceramic donut wicks I have (w9) are too large to fit in the hole inside the donut unfortunately, however a small "puck," if you will, of black ceramic might. I ordered some rods a while back & may try & trim off a little puck to set down there to see if that helps hold the liquefied oil in place. The w9 wicks do, however, fit like a glove inside the 2.x. I may give that a go this weekend as well, though in the short base they cover up the airflow holes, may have to break out the deep base for these. We shall see.
 

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
I got the medium cups in and the element was missing from the actual cup on one? I Don't think it was supposed to come that way but I did get 1 med. donut for testing and I like the medium better than the larger donut for sure.
I still think I preferred my V2.7 but honestly my last 2.7 burnt out so now all I have is a V3.0 running the medium donut and a Yocan NYX dual quartz to compare it too right now. I'll post some pics and give my thoughts, I think a small or medium donut, a few tweaks to resistance and maybe even altering air flow may make the V3.0 superior after all. More info to come!
 

nosmoking

Just so Dab HAppy!
I got the medium cups in and the element was missing from the actual cup on one? I Don't think it was supposed to come that way but I did get 1 med. donut for testing and I like the medium better than the larger donut for sure.
I still think I preferred my V2.7 but honestly my last 2.7 burnt out so now all I have is a V3.0 running the medium donut and a Yocan NYX dual quartz to compare it too right now. I'll post some pics and give my thoughts, I think a small or medium donut, a few tweaks to resistance and maybe even altering air flow may make the V3.0 superior after all. More info to come!
How does the Yocan NYX stand up to the V3.0? Just curious as I only have Yocan products so far but have been lurking in here and other similar product threads.
 
nosmoking,

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
How does the Yocan NYX stand up to the V3.0? Just curious as I only have Yocan products so far but have been lurking in here and other similar product threads.

The NYX and other coil type atomizers that the metal actually touches your product all hit harder and faster than ceramic donut type atomizers like the DT. BUT the flavor is much better with the Divine Tribe. The DT 2.5 is close to the fully ceramic Yocan Cerum with the donut coil or the Kiln by Atmos. The DT 3.0 is a larger version with fully rebuildable and replaceable donuts which I really like. The only place I am struggling with the V3.0 is efficiency. I feel like the V2.5 and V2.7 were more efficient than the V3.0. And even my old coil types are a touch more economical but at the expense of taste. More testing is needed because with just the right settings the small or medium V3.0 might just be perfect.
 

MacRadish

Well-Known Member
The NYX and other coil type atomizers that the metal actually touches your product all hit harder and faster than ceramic donut type atomizers like the DT. BUT the flavor is much better with the Divine Tribe. The DT 2.5 is close to the fully ceramic Yocan Cerum with the donut coil or the Kiln by Atmos. The DT 3.0 is a larger version with fully rebuildable and replaceable donuts which I really like. The only place I am struggling with the V3.0 is efficiency. I feel like the V2.5 and V2.7 were more efficient than the V3.0. And even my old coil types are a touch more economical but at the expense of taste. More testing is needed because with just the right settings the small or medium V3.0 might just be perfect.

I know this is a Divine Tribe thread but providing some insight, my apologies....

The NYX, and the Cerum from Yocan, come with quartz coils by default seems like. However, ceramic donuts are available for both. The NYX donut version sits in a ceramic cup but the housing is metal. The Cerum version is ceramic with a cermaic donut/cup. HTH.

BTW, took me a few weeks, maybe a month, to read this ENTIRE thread because I was getting *tired* of walking out to the garage and using the torch/rig setup and needed something simpler and less intense to use and didn't have a clue wtf a TC MOD was back then. Acquired a eVic VTwo Mini, PICO and a eVic Basic (BTW, my Basic can go up to 60 watts although it seems ALL sites advertise 40). As someone said, too many vapes and too little time....I have V2.5s which I have used and a V3 I haven't touched yet 'cause I'm having so much fun with the Cerum's and NYX's donuts. I'm essentially keeping tabs on this groups approach to the V3 so when the time comes I have previous pioneers results to base off of.

Tomorrow is Shatterday at my local shop and I plan on a wide range or diff shatters for the donuts to test. The donuts for the NYX and Cerum each read a bit different in resistance. The NYX are similar to the DTs but the Cerums are up at around 1.0 - 1.1.

Still experimenting for each type but certainly having a blast.

Indoors, my Fanatic EVO has been on for a couple years now, thank you Wemo.
 

whatavape

Engineering the stars since '01
Picked up a vt75 from Hcigar when I saw a good deal... after futzing with my VM all day Wednesday to get escribe running... I now have two solid days of testing (and LOTS of wax spent) and have a pretty sweet custom curve for my v3 set up with a profile with no preheat (1s @ 25w, punch 1). I am still tweaking, but it heats up nearly instantly, and hovers very well around my set temp. I am getting within 5 deg C, as measured by my IR gun (@e=0.6) with my large donut, but I think I can get it closer. I am not getting "temp protect" message too often, just after 8-10 secs of firing. The curve I have trial-and-errored into existence does not match any TCR value I can find - it is not linear, though segments of it are (this is a limit of escribe). I get a larger coefficient during low temps (247.8 @ <80C) and one that is much smaller at medium temps (160.5 between 80C and ~140C) and then spikes again at vaping temps (183.2 @ >~140C - up to my limit of 200C). This upper limit I am still playing with, but when I get a solid curve I will get an image up to show what I'm using.

Cold resistance (13mm donuts) for me is .47 ohms on two of my donuts, and .58 on the third which I partially blew (initial factory preheat was 5s @ 75W, which killed one of the hotspots...). I am getting them up to a slightly higher resistance on the vt75 than I was on the minivolt (~.7 ohms instead of .63) but I am aiming for a higher temp now too, that I am more comfortable with my curve (200C instead of 182C). This will take a LOT more tweaking... but I am excited. Custom screens are possible so maybe I can create one with the DT logo for the v3...:rockon:
 

fernand

Well-Known Member
@whatavape that's fantastic! The whole TC field is really getting interesting. Yes, those are the sorts of bumps in the curve that I was noticing when I'd calculate TCR for different ranges. If we can just get credible for 350-450 deg F we'd be doing great.

I think you'll love the smaller V3. It behaves more like a V2 for TCR, it has a better cup design and is more tidy all around. The airflow cooling the donut from below is still an issue, but theoretically a very fast controller should be able to compensate in real time.

Have you confirmed your emissivity with a separate measurement, like thermocouples? I was just noticing in specs the degree to which thin films of oil affect the E value. And a guy who does temp measurements with ceramic tiles a lot (they also market the gun I purchased on e-bay) was cautioning how tight the bond between thermocouple and ceramic has to be, and how the outer surface of the thermocouple has to be insulated. It's a pain. What he does is use a colored tape on the ceramic to set the emissivity for the IR gun. I'm trying to find something suitable.
 

whatavape

Engineering the stars since '01
I have been thinking about this too. For sure this chipset can do alot more than the joyetech firmware, but how much of it will actually help us get accurate repeatable precise TC on our donuts? I took a look at the escribe software manual, and it's loaded with tons of features, but many of them have nothing to do with controling your coils.

Why do all the DNA 75/200 mods have to be so large and brick shaped and most of them priced over $200? :o chepeast one i found is about 150

That is cool that we have a software developer here to rep the evolv software...maybe you could explain this to us? :)
True, many of escribe's features work to customize the device experience. The only part useful to everyone here is the custom Profiles. You can customize your Ti/Ni/SS316 profiles if you use juice, and create a custom one if you use DT attys. I'm working on one profile for my v2.5 also, hoping that it is close for the medium donut too whenever those are available. Now I could create one for any donut size or cup size with just minor tweaking, and if there are any major differences those are easy to adjust as well.

I want to be clear, though, that I do not work for or represent Evolv, or the escribe software. I simply have worked on the software and am very familiar with the inner workings. I'm happy to help anyone setup escribe on a Mac or other non-Windows OS, just PM and we can get the difficult stuff knocked out.

As for the price of DNA devices... It does leave something to be desired. That's why they released the DNA75, though as all of those units are acquirable for under $100 - in fact I only paid $55 for my vt75. Batteries are cheap, though, and you can use a 26650 or an 18650 with adapter. I'm using 26650s so far. This thing has killer battery life but is a bit large. I'll get some photos up with my post later with the curve I'm using. They do have a nano version of the vt75 but I don't know how large it may still be (it doesn't fit the 26650).

@whatavape that's fantastic! The whole TC field is really getting interesting. Yes, those are the sorts of bumps in the curve that I was noticing when I'd calculate TCR for different ranges. If we can just get credible for 350-450 deg F we'd be doing great.

I think you'll love the smaller V3. It behaves more like a V2 for TCR, it has a better cup design and is more tidy all around. The airflow cooling the donut from below is still an issue, but theoretically a very fast controller should be able to compensate in real time.

Have you confirmed your emissivity with a separate measurement, like thermocouples? I was just noticing in specs the degree to which thin films of oil affect the E value. And a guy who does temp measurements with ceramic tiles a lot (they also market the gun I purchased on e-bay) was cautioning how tight the bond between thermocouple and ceramic has to be, and how the outer surface of the thermocouple has to be insulated. It's a pain. What he does is use a colored tape on the ceramic to set the emissivity for the IR gun. I'm trying to find something suitable.

I'm hoping to get some of the medium v3s when they are available, I'm really looking forward to testing those with this curve too. It doesn't work at all for the v2.7s and v2.5-alikes that I have, though. That curve is way more linear.

As far as verifying emissivity, I have not. I have one donut/cup combo that is completely clean, and have been using it for testing. Clean alumina has an emissivity of .6-.8ish, so I have been using .6. With it set here, when my IR gun reaches ~380 I start to see vapor, so I am guessing it is relatively close. I don't have a thermocouple at home, which is where I now work, so I will have to invest shortly. In the meantime, I will continue to test... And be tested! :tup:

Edit: What about painter's tape (scotch blue) or frog tape (green)? I'm sure someone has been interested in the emissivity of painter's tape at some point!
 
Last edited:

fernand

Well-Known Member
@whatavape Do we know what tape stands up to what temp?
There was asbestos tape in the old days. Glass tape?
Thermocouples being pressed against the donut with what,
that won't draw heat away ?
You'd think these sorts of issues were solved ages ago.
It's easier when the surface is larger.

Aha! There's this special stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/Testo-0554-0051-Thermometers-Performance/dp/B009NXTLN2

at that price we can use put it in dispensers around the office

Oh, I see that candle soot has a very reliable 0.95. With a little piece of glass or ceramic coated on one side with candle soot, it might work.
 
Last edited:
fernand,

whatavape

Engineering the stars since '01
Well, I didn't think about that. Kapton tape? I know that's rated high enough for 3D printing (100C or greater) so maybe it's good at vape temps. But it is also shiny, which is no good for an IR gun...


In other news, my testing will be delayed a bit, since I blew another coil today (just started sparking @20.5W around .8ohms...) and now, when I try to heat it, it has tiny (pinhead) hotspots that travel, so it is most definitely blown :doh: There's also a crack in the donut where the first spark emerged. So I'm going to try my (last) clean donut, hopefully that one doesn't go! I'm wondering if 25w is too high for preheat. It's essentially off (25w for 1 sec with punch 1) but maybe lowering it more will help.... I noticed too that this second donut kept kicking out of TC mode (display shows "OFF" for temp when firing) so I would unscrew and rescrew it back on. I definitely wouldn't recommend using a stock DNA device at this point, because I've blown a donut even after tweaking... I will go back down to 18W and see how it goes with the 3rd donut. Finger crossed!:)
 
whatavape,

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
I can't believe you ordered, at least, 6 DT V3's and you get so many mods and waterpipes

I currently have an aramada of 14 TC mods and I bought 14 v3 donut kits when they came out, (2 for friends) It's because of asshole donut hoarders like me that poor guys like @Volteric can't get a single V3 donut right now :o :( don't worry Matt will restock soon....I want a few black V3s and even moar medium donuts haha :D At least a few other guys got the medium donuts to play around with too :tup:

@Vape Donkey 650 I love all your setups. Which is the easiest setup to connect to a water pipe. I was thinking hydratube or my 510 nail glass but neither fit properly.

Easiest way? Do you already have a hydratube? If so, the way Steven is connecting the V3 base with a thin silicon band as the gasket and putting that straight into the bottom of the 18mm hydratube is the easiest way. Not as easy or elegant for a 14mm tube, I'm still working on that.

If you have a regular style rig with an 18 or 14mm input, you can use some glass angled adapters to connect a 1/4" silicon tube between the mod and the dab rig. To connect the bottom base of the V3 to the glass elbow, you will need a 1/2" silicon hose cutting to connect the 2. You can get all the silicon hoses from DDave here at FC

1411959401085578290632.jpeg


1412043099004-1896190922.jpeg


If you have an 18mm input on your rig, you can get an 18mm m/m adapter and use a larger 1/2" hose the whole way for bigger airflow and more vape like on 3 out of my 4 adapters.

1411768487638-1796410973.jpeg


What about your 510 nail? What size is it? Outside diameter? If it's between 12-14mm, maybe you can use the half-inch silicon tube to connect it direct to the V3 base?

quick thoughts (freshly baked): quercetin is a bioflavanoid if I recall correctly, related to vitamin C.

according to the wiki, quercetin is present in lots of foods and vegetables, so I'll rely on eating those for my good daily quercetin dose :) I don't mind leaving a few mg specs of that in my reclaim, nor do I want to raise the temp of the rest of my cannabinoids above combustion level :o just to boil a little querc'

as to using a pad or wick, I don't see why it should be a reclaim nightmare, it could very well make cleaning much easier... toss the pad in your ISO, put a new pad on, clean the old pad, lather, rinse, repeat :)

I meant that in the sense that all the splatter and reclaim that accumulates on the steel pad would be pretty difficult (not impossible) to "reclaim" if one wanted to, for re-consumption. (i would) I find mouthpiece splatter reclaim to be rather fresh and desirable, it's not really boiled up or degraded most of the time, just splashed. Not everyone wants to re-vape this, so if you don't want to recover the reclaim, this shouldn't matter if you want to mesh it up

I haven't used a wick, I take it these ceramic wicks are some porous variation? As long as they are inert and do the job :)

As for these ceramic fiber wicks, I have been using them for a couple months with great effect on some of my RTAs, and they seem to be performing very well and have hardly any taste or noticeable sensation. Compared to cotton, which tastes like crap and leaves tiny particulates that irritate my airway... so that's not saying much.

wp14b022b2_06.png


They aren't porous, it looks like a regular threaded fiber string, but it's made from furnace cured ceramic at 1850F+ for 12 hours, which is supposed to make it "inert" and safe for vaping use? I'll take their word. I did some research on the readyxwick and one reviewer complained about how tiny visible fibers are released from the wicks easily upon contact, and presumably during vaping. The owner / maker of the wicks replied and said this is safe because these fibers are larger in average size than 10-12 microns, which is large enough be caught in your mucosa and flushed out of your body normally, unlike smaller sized particulates (like from cotton or combusting) which will be absorbed more permanently in your lungs :( What do you think about that?

I can't find the original posts about the particulate thing but you can see more here
http://www.rbasupplies.com/READYxWICK.html

The large donut performs like a tank but only when the lead posts are already clogged I think. I notice a "break in" period after every thorough cleaning. Thus, I actually let my large donuts build up for a while. Once it gets a bit bad I do the same cleaning techniques as the v2.5 on the v3 but with the outer housing off. I'll clean it this way 2-3 times and then the dark cup will bother me too much and will end off cleaning it with the burner on my kitchen stove. I don't have torches anymore.

I've done something similar on my last couple of cleanings, but I just take the dirty donut out of the cup and casing, then hook it up to a bare naked base and terminals from another V3, burn the donut clean, then re-install into it's original cup and housing without fully cleaning those parts. I'll do this if the parts other than the donut aren't that fouled up, I can just scrape up the little reclaim if it isn't much before re-installing the clean donut.

I'm wondering why you feel that the large donuts perform better when the wire lead posts get clogged? Is it for less airflow coming into the cup or another reason? :huh:

Ok just got my v3, before I squish something yummy, what should I run this at on an Istick tc40?

DT tells you in the little instruction paper to start low and move upwards. With the Istick 40w TC you only really got 2 modes. I think he says 240-260 is good to start on TC-Ni. 40w is fine with large donuts, although you don't have a choice about that with your mod. If that high watts bothers you, VW around 18-20w should work ok. :tup:

(BTW, my Basic can go up to 60 watts although it seems ALL sites advertise 40).

They released a firmware update shortly after the initial release of the evic basic that boosted it to 60w. This has become a common joyetech gimmick, release a new mod with held-back wattage, then release a software update soon after that to pump it up to its real wattage capabilities :brow:

I just glanced at the FC rules and i didn't see anything against cross-comparing similar products in the dedicated thread for one of those product. I don't think DT or any of the rest of us mind hearing how those different atty's stack up against each other, I'd like to see that
 
Last edited:

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
noowwwww.....g33k out! :rockon:

Picked up a vt75 from Hcigar when I saw a good deal... after futzing with my VM all day Wednesday to get escribe running... I now have two solid days of testing (and LOTS of wax spent) and have a pretty sweet custom curve for my v3 set up with a profile with no preheat (1s @ 25w, punch 1). I am still tweaking, but it heats up nearly instantly, and hovers very well around my set temp. I am getting within 5 deg C, as measured by my IR gun (@e=0.6) with my large donut, but I think I can get it closer. I am not getting "temp protect" message too often, just after 8-10 secs of firing. The curve I have trial-and-errored into existence does not match any TCR value I can find - it is not linear, though segments of it are (this is a limit of escribe). I get a larger coefficient during low temps (247.8 @ <80C) and one that is much smaller at medium temps (160.5 between 80C and ~140C) and then spikes again at vaping temps (183.2 @ >~140C - up to my limit of 200C). This upper limit I am still playing with, but when I get a solid curve I will get an image up to show what I'm using.

Cold resistance (13mm donuts) for me is .47 ohms on two of my donuts, and .58 on the third which I partially blew (initial factory preheat was 5s @ 75W, which killed one of the hotspots...). I am getting them up to a slightly higher resistance on the vt75 than I was on the minivolt (~.7 ohms instead of .63) but I am aiming for a higher temp now too, that I am more comfortable with my curve (200C instead of 182C). This will take a LOT more tweaking... but I am excited. Custom screens are possible so maybe I can create one with the DT logo for the v3...:rockon:

Cool, thanks for posting up the results of your experiments with the V3 + DNA75. Perhaps if you get this project to a satisfactory point, you can upload your profiles for the V3 to share with other DNA mod users?

I find it interesting that you say the TCR is not linear and that it actually changes at difference temperature ranges. That seems plausible to me and conforms to my observations that one's TC settings can be very inaccurate at 200F or 600F, at the extreme edges, (which we don't care about) but still be fairly accurate and reliable in the middle range, around 300-500F or so, with the v2.5 and v3 donuts.

How did you deduce that? Is that the "atomizer analysis" part of the escribe?

Also... you like your 0.47Ω to rise to 0.70Ω? Oh boy you like it hot! :o :cool: No rig or bubbler too? :ugh:

True, many of escribe's features work to customize the device experience. The only part useful to everyone here is the custom Profiles. You can customize your Ti/Ni/SS316 profiles if you use juice, and create a custom one if you use DT attys. I'm working on one profile for my v2.5 also, hoping that it is close for the medium donut too whenever those are available. Now I could create one for any donut size or cup size with just minor tweaking, and if there are any major differences those are easy to adjust as well.

I want to be clear, though, that I do not work for or represent Evolv, or the escribe software. I simply have worked on the software and am very familiar with the inner workings. I'm happy to help anyone setup escribe on a Mac or other non-Windows OS, just PM and we can get the difficult stuff knocked out.

As for the price of DNA devices... It does leave something to be desired. That's why they released the DNA75, though as all of those units are acquirable for under $100 - in fact I only paid $55 for my vt75. Batteries are cheap, though, and you can use a 26650 or an 18650 with adapter. I'm using 26650s so far. This thing has killer battery life but is a bit large. I'll get some photos up with my post later with the curve I'm using. They do have a nano version of the vt75 but I don't know how large it may still be (it doesn't fit the 26650).

Understood, between you and evolv. Since you mentioned it, I did a quick search for DNA75 mods since the 200s are all so big and costly, and yes, the DNA75s can be had at much more reasonable prices, although they are all still pretty big and boxy :( Many are double celled, a few are internal cells, a few are single 18650. Why the need for 2 cells for a measly 75w?


As far as verifying emissivity, I have not. I have one donut/cup combo that is completely clean, and have been using it for testing. Clean alumina has an emissivity of .6-.8ish, so I have been using .6. With it set here, when my IR gun reaches ~380 I start to see vapor, so I am guessing it is relatively close. I don't have a thermocouple at home, which is where I now work, so I will have to invest shortly. In the meantime, I will continue to test... And be tested! :tup:

I still need to get a better IR gun, but I've been trying to dial in what I have to try to match up between 380 and 430F. On the little v2.5 with the much-loved TCR # 245, 380F would be the temperature "floor" that I would use with almost any concentrate, because lower than that would rarely produce much thick, visible vapor, but it would still make some vapor <380F. Some (most) concentrate types and consistencies would need to start at 390 or 400F to make sufficient vapor to my taste, so that's what I had been trying to match on my 13mm donuts. I'm still finding myself using higher temps alot (420, 430) on the large 13mm disc, but with the 10mm medium and TCR 220, 380 and 390F is usually fine for me. :tup:

In other news, my testing will be delayed a bit, since I blew another coil today (just started sparking @20.5W around .8ohms...) and now, when I try to heat it, it has tiny (pinhead) hotspots that travel, so it is most definitely blown :doh: There's also a crack in the donut where the first spark emerged. So I'm going to try my (last) clean donut, hopefully that one doesn't go! I'm wondering if 25w is too high for preheat. It's essentially off (25w for 1 sec with punch 1) but maybe lowering it more will help.... I noticed too that this second donut kept kicking out of TC mode (display shows "OFF" for temp when firing) so I would unscrew and rescrew it back on. I definitely wouldn't recommend using a stock DNA device at this point, because I've blown a donut even after tweaking... I will go back down to 18W and see how it goes with the 3rd donut. Finger crossed!:)

Wondering why you're blowing donuts at only 25w? Thats a pretty modest, safe level for the large donuts. For now, I've even settled at 40w for the large discs and 32w for the mediums. They see 2-4 second warm up times, so they've gotten more of a pounding. What's this "preheat" feature about? Soft or hard punch? You say you got some instant warm-up times, I think you would need pretty high watts like 60 or 75w to get a large donut to big vaping temps in under 2 second?
 
Last edited:

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
10,000 characters only! Such long quotes! arghh!!! @fernand


The measurement of temperature on a small wire-in-ceramic heater is tricky enough that NASA got involved.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990021237.pdf

Where / how the hell do you find this stuff? That's some dense, math-y, scientician kind of stuff....way denser than the medical cannabis reasearch i occasionally browse on academic journals...:sherlock:

@Vape Donkey 650 personally I do care more about the resulting temp of the oil than the incidental temp of heater elements involved. But I would think that with the good thermal conductivity of these ceramics and the thin barriers involved, the difference between the average temp of a donut and the temp of oil that it heats isn't huge.

The medium-sized donut in the medium cup is more to my taste than the big original V3. The TCR seems to be similar to the V2 units, 220 works OK on the eVic mini VTC. Also ceramic/alumina cups/crucibles can be used on the medium donut much better than on the big one, using a wire screen of some sort to keep it down on the donut.

Ok, good to know your slightly different goals with the temp control. Whatever TCR or temp settings you end up deciding on probably won't be far from mine since the difference isn't that big. Now that you've got the crucible thing down with the medium donuts, can you make a recommendation on a good place to buy the crucibles? 6.8x4mm? Now that we got some donut gear that we will probably be using for a while, I'm ready to try it out. :science:

Since the air holes in this proposed design are integral with the heater-crucible, the crucible itself, the walls, should be as high as possible, to keep the spatter inside. To use that lovely expression from math classes, the crucible walls ideally approach - as a limit - a tube that reaches all the way to the user's lips. There would then be zero leakage, and as long as the oil is never overheated, reclaiming would be simply a matter of warming the crucible-tube and letting oil flow back down. Until there is only dross left that can be burned off in wattage mode.

Of course, a long crucible-mouthpiece tube is impractical, but it's still important to make the crucible-heater as tall as possible within the housing to avoid seeping at a junction.

So you're saying it would be better to make the heated crucible cup to be a taller chimney rather than a flat puck? If we make the diameter small enough, like 8 or 9mm, it could be skinny enough to fit inside the tall end of the ceramic base and be chimney-like, (as opposed to being flush with the tunnel / bore size of the ceramic housing, like the medium donut cup) and with air intake ports at the top of the tall heated crucible still allowing air to flow in like Matt's sketch, but from the top? :shrug:


The ideal height of air holes above the floor of the crucible-heater would have to be modeled by some stoned Boeing aerodynamics mechanical engineer genius from Washington State. Or trial-and-errored. With a little care this all should contain the spatter and put and end to the gooping

As per the drawings I sent you, @divinetribe , I would love to see holes in the housing top to mate with ones in the housing base, like in many RDAs, so a user can select and adjust air inlets. Maybe for the next gen. As it is, an integral heater-cup solves a lot of problems. Looking forward to any prototypes.

I think you need to tap some of those NASA guys' colleagues that wrote your ceramic heater research to get into this topic for us. Fern, I posted up my crappy little diagrams for everyone to see. Why don't you show us your designs? Are they too top secret? Private? :brow: claiming it for your own intellectual property?
 
Last edited:

fernand

Well-Known Member
@Vape Donkey 650 my sketches are too ugly - I spend so much time struggling with software and gear that hassling in addition with a CAD program is beyond endurance. You know how those RDAs like the Plumeveil have air inlets that you line up by rotating the top? Mold channels and additional holes in the ceramic top and bottom of the V3, so you can adjust how much air enters from below and how much from above.

Intellectual property? ha! That's a joke. Patents are for rich corps with armies of lawyers. Been there, done that. If you ever get the patent office to grant you one over the "prior art" that just happens to belong to said rich corps, know what to do with your US patent? Your lawyer is a huge Samoan, you say? He's going to intimidate the big boys, boys so big they don't even CARE? And he'll sumo scatter the importers of Mongolian copies in the e-bay temple?

You can find crucibles in various sizes on e-bay under "Alumina crucible". The bandits who order them for a couple dollars from China and sell them for forty in the US are jerks, pure and simple, not "smart". Buy direct. The 6.8 x 4 mm size fits the V2-alikes perfectly, though the low air inlets on the real V2 and the 13mm V3 lift them. I'd like to try some slightly bigger ones on the medium V3.

On the idea of a very long integrated heater/cup for the design Matt was proposing, I just meant as an extreme (impractical) case where it becomes the mouthpiece too so there's nowhere to leak.

On those wicks, that's absurd. The idea you can inhale glass or ceramic fibers, like asbestos, and it's OK if they're big enough that you'll cough them up before you die. OK, how about inhaling steel wool or shotgun pellets? The difference with cotton is that cotton is a carbohydrate that grows on Southern plantations and makes you regular. Doh. Sorry Mate, D- (it's not an F because he actually made an effort).
 
Last edited:

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Is there anything to suggest a DNA device can do it better than the Joyetechs?

Sorry if my answer comes a couple pages late, but this thread is running fast and some of you guys are very talkative (wink! wink!)

We think that there is more to the DNA chipset than just the customizable software. Apparently the sampling rate of our mods can vary greatly, and some have better TC implementation than others.

I would like to point you to this post by @Pipes in the "DIY BULLI" thread: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/diy-bulli-vaporizer.6601/page-23#post-968964

Unfortunately I don't think anyone of us over there had the chance to test a DNA box first-hand. I'm using a evic VTC mini myself and I'm relatively satisfied, but previously I raised the question of whether it would be worth it to try to customize it to better suit our needs, cf my post in the "Project" thread: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-project-diy-herbal-vaporizer.21055/page-13#post-997825

I didn't get any answer until recently when @funkyjunky chimed in with more info here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-project-diy-herbal-vaporizer.21055/page-14#post-1032423 and subsequent post.

I think this should be of interest to many of you. And once again, I don't want to hijack this thread or harm DT's business, but I invite you to join and participate to the BULLI thread here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/diy-bulli-vaporizer.6601/ which by the way is no longer about the BULLI RDA but rather about all custom 510 RDA's / DIY setups for dry herbs, as well as the excellent Project thread here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-project-diy-herbal-vaporizer.21055/

It's clear there's a lot of overlap, we are using the same devices than you but for dry herbs instead. Seeing how many of you like to tinker and tweak, I'm confident you will find yourself at ease over there too and your help would be much appreciated!
 

Steven

Well-Known Member
@Vape Donkey 650 my suspicions is that the large v3 works better once the posts are clogged because it is very prone to leak at the lead holes. Thus, if the posts are full and has no empty space for leakage, the wax will generally stay in the cup to be vaped. Just speculation on my part. My pwt has been collecting dust and haven't tried to use it with the v3, but since it's a 14mm, right off the top of my head, I think perhaps the easiest way is to just get the smallest 14mm to 18mm adaptor and go from there. It's another piece, so I can see your reluctance to go this route tho
 

whatavape

Engineering the stars since '01
noowwwww.....g33k out! :rockon:



Cool, thanks for posting up the results of your experiments with the V3 + DNA75. Perhaps if you get this project to a satisfactory point, you can upload your profiles for the V3 to share with other DNA mod users?

I find it interesting that you say the TCR is not linear and that it actually changes at difference temperature ranges. That seems plausible to me and conforms to my observations that one's TC settings can be very inaccurate at 200F or 600F, at the extreme edges, (which we don't care about) but still be fairly accurate and reliable in the middle range, around 300-500F or so, with the v2.5 and v3 donuts.

How did you deduce that? Is that the "atomizer analysis" part of the escribe?

Also... you like your 0.47Ω to rise to 0.70Ω? Oh boy you like it hot! :o :cool: No rig or bubbler too? :ugh:

I actually only like them to go up to .63, but since plugging the first two into my ht75, their cold resistance is not the same. It's not in the mid-.5x range, around .52-.58 for both. They are both blown and partially cracked, though, which increases the cold resistance. I'm going from .5x-.7, which gives about 220C (~428F). Higher end for me, but that is +/- 10C, since that is my current standard error. It feels to me a little low.


Vape Donkey 650 said:
Understood, between you and evolv. Since you mentioned it, I did a quick search for DNA75 mods since the 200s are all so big and costly, and yes, the DNA75s can be had at much more reasonable prices, although they are all still pretty big and boxy :( Many are double celled, a few are internal cells, a few are single 18650. Why the need for 2 cells for a measly 75w?
The need is a result of higher drain. Pushing a 3.2v battery up to 75W requires a higher drain, which is easier to achieve (with 18650's) with multiple batteries - thus raising the voltage (6.4v+) so that less drain is required from the batteries. Or, you can use a custom high-drain LiPo, or a larger battery (26650 -higher drain capabilities).


Vape Donkey 650 said:
I still need to get a better IR gun, but I've been trying to dial in what I have to try to match up between 380 and 430F. On the little v2.5 with the much-loved TCR # 245, 380F would be the temperature "floor" that I would use with almost any concentrate, because lower than that would rarely produce much thick, visible vapor, but it would still make some vapor <380F. Some (most) concentrate types and consistencies would need to start at 390 or 400F to make sufficient vapor to my taste, so that's what I had been trying to match on my 13mm donuts. I'm still finding myself using higher temps alot (420, 430) on the large 13mm disc, but with the 10mm medium and TCR 220, 380 and 390F is usually fine for me. :tup:
Amazon has good deals for those - I saw one from etekcity today as a deal for ~$15 with adjustable e, ~$13 without. I'm aiming for the same range - 200C (392F) is my target temp for my v3 on the vt75, which is right in the middle of your range. I will use some spare profiles to setup some of these TCR values that seem to work for you and let you know how they do with the dna75.


Vape Donkey 650 said:
Wondering why you're blowing donuts at only 25w? Thats a pretty modest, safe level for the large donuts. For now, I've even settled at 40w for the large discs and 32w for the mediums. They see 2-4 second warm up times, so they've gotten more of a pounding. What's this "preheat" feature about? Soft or hard punch? You say you got some instant warm-up times, I think you would need pretty high watts like 60 or 75w to get a large donut to big vaping temps in under 2 second?
I don't know, except that the first was blown by 75w preheat. Preheat is a little kick given before your settings take effect. By default, it's 75w for 3 seconds with a medium (3) punch. That's supposed to preheat the coil so that as you pull it instantly vapes. That works for juice on a wire, but not for us. We don't need such a staunchy preheat. I have mine set to 25w for 1s with soft (1) punch. I find cranking the preheat to 40w decreases my heat-up time to near-zero, so I am instantly vaping. It is VERY fast (<3s) with it set at 25W, which I am fine with so I use 1s@25w 1 punch. I am playing with preheat a little, but am less interested. I probably won't mess with it anymore until I get different sized donuts (and a few more large) to test with, so that I can get my heating curve set up a little better. It's working well for me so far, but I need to adjust it just a bit because I find the temps inaccurate in a few spots. After another week or so of testing with this donut I think I'll feel confident in my tweaking, and then I can share my results for the other DNA users. The profiles will be good for all of the DNA (escribe-compatible - 60/75/200) devices too, not just the DNA75.
 

Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
Really interested in the DNA custom heating curves. Been looking at an hcigar VT75 nano for my nic vaping habit for a while but couldn't justify a $100 mod. If I catch a a good deal on one I might have to pull the trigger if I can dual-purpose it.
 
Bad Ocelot,

divinetribe

We are trying our hardest to become Medical Grade
Manufacturer
hello all,
It is going to take me a while to catch up with reading all the posts since my last , very nice information from what i have skimmed over...

updates
,, the crucible cup will take months from the ceramic people...

i am getting 300 v3 white kits tomorrow and I am finally able to send out the email to all the people that signed up for the early sign up discount..
I am also taking the sold out off the site. next week I will be getting 200 separate medium donuts and cups to sell on the side these will have improved cups along with 400 black v3 kits(kits will have 2 large donuts , one installed and one on the side and a medium donut and cup on the side .. this is all next week I am told,,

my goal is to get the DC GEN 2 rebuild able done, and a small cup and donut for the v3..
I will be pushing for the crucible cup and keeping everyone updated as paul is keeping me.

discount link here
http://ineedhemp.com/product/divine...mic-donut-atomizer-fcombustion-discount-link/

ALSO if anyone has any questions and needs answers fast please email me matt@ineedhemp.com

14540688_676690759162531_4391141024030785536_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom