Gear D-nail thread

ensabbahnur

Hash Vacuum
We literally bought are units a couple weeks apart from the same retailer though ... that’s why I say strange.

These guys don’t have CSA or equivalent certifications on their stuff? Aren’t they worried about liability if it burns down someone’s house or something?

(I’d rather spend the few thousand a year to be certified ... guess it’s complicated in the US where the legality of the gear I suppose is gray with the federal laws being what they are)

LOL, Id be willing to put money down that most enail makers don't even pay taxes let alone GAF about getting anything certified, last time i looked both UL and CE was pretty costly. Notice I said most, and I'm not pointing at anyone in particular.

Edit: I seem to remember a guy from Magic Flight throwing up a bunch or super crazy vape setups and prototypes on their website and when people asked him what he was doing he mentioned some law that he linked saying any non pre-disclosed to the public device for cannabis after like the 1st of last January or something was immediately illegal in the US........and i haven't heard a single word about that from anyone one way or the other since. So I can definitely see why people may not bother to care about covering themselves.......if no ones coming after them. (shrugs)

@biohacker In all my experiences with this hobby id have to say, hands down, Errlectric has the best manufacturing and support setup Ive ever seen or even heard about....there is nothing Ive seen or heard that would lead me to believe anything but what they say and show in numerous videos, no other manufacturers even comes close to the level of transparency they have.....aside from maybe Newvape but they don't make their controllers. I really wish they would dust of their gear and update some stuff, they had some of the "advanced" enail features first and Id like to see them keep pushing the gear and the tech, especially with more nail options.....as their nail setup, IMO, is a real double edge sword with them, on the 1 hand, it just works and works well, on the other, thats your nail......deal with it.
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
So my High5 LCD with the mechanical relay isn't as "good" as the SSR? They just toss the SSR in "randomly"? Still waiting to hear back from JCat since he did indicate that he "thought" his was clicking until he disabled the alarms, but now i'm not so sure.

Don't wanna venture off topic, but since the high5 is coming up a lot, how would it compare to the Errlectric controller?
Take the 4 screws off and check ... (the top ones front and back and you can lift off the lid)

If unsure what you are looking at take a couple pics and post ...
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
100% positive. (I stuck my ear pretty much against it to check)

Was just teasing because you said you think it clicked before you disabled the alarms! So maybe you were just hearing things before the alarms went off :lol:;)

In all my experiences with this hobby id have to say, hands down, Errlectric has the best manufacturing and support setup Ive ever seen or even heard about

Do you know what their wiring is like? Is it the same as d-nail? That mobile battery operated controller looks awesome! If that could pair with a flat coil, it would be incredible.
 
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biohacker,
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JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
:lol: ... @biohacker ... @ensabbahnur ...

I figured out the clicking! I turned my 2 alarms back on (to value 2 as opposed to 0), and as soon as it went over temp, it clicked as it turned on "sub1" and "sub2", which I assume are internal mechanical relays inside the Omron ... at any rate, these are the "auxiliary outputs", and they are activated by alarm 1 and 2 respectively. There is, however, nothing hooked up to sub1 and sub2 internally. It is using Out1 which is the default out that triggers the internal zero-crossing SSR for managing the AC voltage provided to the coil. If you turn off the alarms (set the values to 0), then the sub1/sub2 won't be triggered, and the clicking will be gone :)

Hope that helps everyone with these out ... because, as I thought I remembered, it did initially click; I think this is actually why I sought out how to turn off the alarms if I remember correctly (thought it couldn't hurt ... why would this be turning on if it's not doing anything ... shouldn't have "out1", "sub1", and "sub2" illuminating ... we just need "out1")
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
@JCat I knew you weren't hearing things! :lol:

So, as it's greek to me, can I disable the alarms to eliminate the clicking without any harm/negative effect? Or is it better to just let the click be, because it's safer or something? Don't want the controller frying because i'm overriding something.
 
biohacker,

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@JCat I knew you weren't hearing things! :lol:

So, as it's greek to me, can I disable the alarms to eliminate the clicking without any harm/negative effect? Or is it better to just let the click be, because it's safer or something? Don't want the controller frying because i'm overriding something.
100% safe. They do nothing.

I just verified the manual and auxiliary outputs are SPST-NO 250v relays ... so that’s the clicking. These auxiliary outputs are triggered by the alarms being on (and by default configured to both trigger when over set point), so these 2 mechanical relays inside the omron that are connected to nothing turn on and off constantly.

So everyone should turn these off. They should never be on in the first place and high5 should configure them off before they ship.
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
Nice work @JCat! My wife thanks you! She still remembers the Clicker VXL Cloud days! :rofl:Now THAT was real clicking! :lol:

Seriously though, she kept asking me if the oven was on constantly! It kinda clicks the same lol Thanks!
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Nice work @JCat! My wife thanks you! She still remembers the Clicker VXL Cloud days! :rofl:Now THAT was real clicking! :lol:

Seriously though, she kept asking me if the oven was on constantly! It kinda clicks the same lol Thanks!
No problem :) ... glad to help out :) ... glad also to clear up that confusion ... it really didn't seem right to me that it would be using a mechanical relay to power the heating coil ... really should be zero-crossing ... :lol:

(this means that everyone can disable their alarms on their high5 Omron units, and the clicking will go away :) )
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
@ensabbahnur and JCAT - bit late to the party but certainly the Omron model that Jcat referenced does indeed have an output to drive an external solid state relay.

However, in any given box with an Omron in it, its not at all certain that an SSR was indeed installed and used. The only way to tell is to open it up and look.

The Omron PID assembly does indeed have an internal mech relay (that pretty much sucks as far as I can tell).

I got a Greenlight G9 controller...oh, maybe 18 months ago...with just that exact Omron model number PID assembly. It was AWFUL. Opened it up and son of a gun...no SSR (no external relay of any sort) and who the hell knows how this butchered thing was wired together (loved the wires soldered on the Omron's screw down terminals...yeah, sigh).

A friend help me fix it up...after all, ain't much in them beside the Omron, SSR, XLR connector, and a power switch. We added the SSR and wired it to Omron's specs (they have LOT of tech data available) and its solid as a rock now (actually works very well).

I suggestion is when in doubt, open the box and look. You may well be surprised.
 

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
@Ratchett
Can you help make a sleeve for the d-nail fork v2 dabber? It gets pretty hot. I know some ppl have made their own. With the d-nail halo series popularity, hopefully you can grab a lot of customers, because Ive read it's a common complaint. Thanks!
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
Yeah the heat of the cap is something i've been thinking about, ESPECIALLY with pre-heating, and actually using the fork dabber. Is it even possible? :lol:
 
biohacker,
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GreenDragon

Well-Known Member
Dabber/handle gets too hot and dabber/handle pulls heat from carb cap and SIC halo.

Separate carb cap from dabber.

I use a 3 inch piece of chopstick for insulated handle. Taper the end of the chopstick a bit and it screws in tight. The bamboo doesn't draw heat away from the carb cab and stays cool to the touch.

On another note:
Recently purchased Leaton 4ch K-type thermometer to see temp delta of dab surface.
It seems to be a very fine random number generator. Tried swapping probes, unplugging/replugging probes, power cycling, etc.. The probes all showed different temps, varying by hundreds of degrees. Returned.
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
Thanks for the tip @GreenDragon . What a stupid design. I had the exact same problem with my newvape showercap. Now I regret buying the fork tipped dabber. I mean, what's the point of mating the two if you can't remove due to the heat? Chopstick it is!
 
biohacker,
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SamuraiSam

Extraction Technician
The High5 LCD with the e5cc definitely has a mechanical relay, 100% certain, it clicks like a 1950s thermostat all day long, and I can physically feel the relay opening and closing in my unit. I have 1 and my buddies have an additional 2 units (1 v1 and 2 v2 LCD #2s) that also have the mechanical ssr. All 3 units were purchased before the "update" to the "newer" v3 ninja nail ripoff (between 6-9 months) with the flat sides instead of the angled case fitting sides.
Nope, hearing noises is by no means proof of componentry. Your box full of electronics can be configured in different ways even due to settings inside the PID. I am not a fan of High 5 as a company, but is not fair to them, or an accurate review of their products, to claim to definitively state your box and your friends boxes which you have never examined the internals of, do not contain a part, which is of paramount importance to a properly functioning product. It would be easy to open up your enail, take some photos, and show what is going on, because then and only then would you know if you are using an integral mechanical relay or an external solid state relay. I believe @Baron23 did exactly this to troubleshoot his Greenlight Vapes enail some time ago. If you are in fact missing an SSR I would suggest hopping over to that thread to see how he rectified his issue.

Regarding the SiC Halo in particular, and D-nail's carb cap heat sink that drops dish temps 20-40 degrees at the beginning of a dab, if not pre-heated. Having tried quartz, SiC, and sapphire, I think the SiC + Ti cap is the worst case scenario in many ways. It seems to drop the dish temperature the fastest, and hence, the greatest drop from setpoint. The SiC transfers heat the best, so this makes sense. As a consequence of the rapid heat transfer, the carb cap heats up quickly. And if you're preheating the cap like I do to minimize the temp drop on capping, take the same length pull, the handle'll be even that much hotter: Hence the need for an insulated handle.

Separating the titanium heatsink carb cap from the dabber / handle would be an elegant and simple way to solve the issue. I think the threading might be too small (I believe they are #10-24) to effectively implement a simple threaded piece of phenolic plastic or PTFE- small plastic threads can't handle much force and strip easily but a larger diameter shaft would allow beefier threads. Much like D-nail makes PTFE joint protectors to act as a heat blocker between glass and titanium, the same material would work for titanium cap-> titanium handle. Perhaps an updated 2.5 or 3.0 carb cap could use a larger diameter threading and rod/handle so as to allow adequate thread sizing for plastic threads.

Now, all the chat about sleeves and spacers and insulators aside, there's an even easier and more elegant solution to the hot handle problem, and it wouldn't be an impossibility. Just make the carb cap out of a material that does not transfer heat as readily as titanium! If it takes longer to heat up, and you inhale the same amount of time, the cap will be much cooler upon completion of your dab. And in fact there is an easily workable material that's clear and transparent with a low coefficient of thermal transfer. Fuzed quartz is perfect for this application! And it shoudn't be too much of a challenge to manufacture, as Highly Educated has been making a variety of quartz carb caps for their nails for some time! If you would purchase a quartz Halo carb cap from D-nail, please please please write them with your product suggestion and suggestions! I really feel that such a product could elevate the Halo platform one step further.

----------

I forget if I posted about this earlier as I'm on FC infrequently these days, but my first flat coil took a shit some months ago, and I purchased one of the higher end D-nail Extended Life coils to replace it. Had a few hiccups which I thought worth sharing in case anyone else was experiencing less than amazing performance from their D-nail flat coil and really any dish...

The coil worked reliably, but my vapor production wasn't good. I wasn't sure if I was trippin' or what, but after a few weeks, particularly after I picked up some bubble and it stayed liquidy after 2-3 pulls instead of vaporizing down to a light char, I was convinced that I wasn't imagining things and that I was having to dab at a higher temperature and even then had less sustained vapor production (it would drop more quickly than a quartz banger, instead of staying consistently thick for two full pulls).

Upon inspection I realized that my new, high end heating coil was not flat, and was slightly twisted, such that it was not making good contact to the SiC dish. I tried using pliers to tighten the retaining nut tighter, to improve contact, but I only ended up denting and deforming the retaining nut.

I took my coil in to work and sandwiched it in a bench vice. (I put flat, steel tools between the diamond-tooth of the vice so as to not damage or dent the coil, to press only flat surfaces against the coil). I tightened it down gently, took it out, and checked on a flat edge, still not flat. I then squished it with a bit more force, checked again, and was satisfied with its flatness.

I took it home and installed it on my D nail. The coil was a few mm thinner and I couldn't tighten the nut down to get that proper contact I was after- the coil moved more freely than ever. :doh: I took the nail apart and realized why: there was carbon buildup in the threads exposed due to the overly thick coil that prevented the retaining lug from tightening further now that the coil was the right height. I used vice grips and a pick to remove the carbon buildup, and upon yet another reassembly, got everything put back together.

The result was even better than I expected. The vapor production pull after pull is more consistent than I ever achieved by hours of fucking with PID settings. I think my crushed coil is flatter than my original coil, which seems flat except for a slight bump at the tip which might've prevented perfect contact. Performance is flawless, aside from my gripes with the carb cap. I've never been as happy with an e-nail as I am today, and I'm using a dish and nut that's probably 2 1/2 years old, and a controller box going on 4 years.

Happy Dabbing!
 
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ensabbahnur

Hash Vacuum
Nope, hearing noises is by no means proof of componentry. Your box full of electronics can be configured in different ways even due to settings inside the PID. I am not a fan of High 5 as a company, but is not fair to them, or an accurate review of their products, to claim to definitively state your box and your friends boxes which you have never examined the internals of, do not contain a part, which is of paramount importance to a properly functioning product. It would be easy to open up your enail, take some photos, and show what is going on, because then and only then would you know if you are using an integral mechanical relay or an external solid state relay. I believe @Baron23 did exactly this to troubleshoot his High 5 enail some time ago. If you are infact missing an SSR I would suggest hopping over to that thread to see how he rectified his issue.



Happy Dabbing!


Not sure why we are still stuck on this argument....my unit, does indeed, contain a mechanical relay that is OBVIOUSLY what is making the noises......if it didn't, Im not sure how it'd be possible that a true, non mechanical relay can make any sound like a magnetized strip hitting a contact point, over and over and over again, with the rather heavy physical feedback that comes with all that mechanical motion inside.........regardless of if the unit is actually functioning THROUGH an SSR or not, in my case at least, I'm all but certain (for semantics sake of certainty) positive there is a mechanical relay (even if its not feeding power to anything) in my, and others, units.

Im not trying to throw any undue shade High5s way, Im not saying they are unsafe or cut corners. Ive had nothing but good interactions with them, even when something was wrong they have always made right quickly and without hassle, but on that same token I can say from my interactions with several of their products over a ~18 month or so time frame....that they do not have flawless QC or manufacturing or anywhere near it, nor have they been very transparent with wiring or even their entire business at times (there was much confusion when they launched their what turned out to be wholesale only website with prices less then 50% of the retail price) IF their QC was up to snuff, they wouldn't allow e5cc units to go out with the mechanical relay enabled or otherwise configured to somehow make noise and haptic feedback, as has turned out to be the case.....when its function is not needed nor wanted. Having said all that, and the fact they don't bother with UL, CE, ISO or any other type of component specific certification, I can EASILY see someone in that situation not being absolutely adamant about every component beings exactly the same if they end function is "within tolerance" for the end user. I mean as a contemporary example, even in a case where they indeed have all the previously mentioned certifications, NVIDIA, is currently and has in the past multiple times (970gtx and mx150 immediately come to mind), sold ICs listed in all sales materials and retail packaging as identical products with HUGELY differing internals (different pipelines, amount of shaders, memory bus size etc etc), sometimes being entirely different generations, not just a revision within process but entirely different architecture of chips all together....as the same product....they have been sued for it in the past....and yet they are currently doing it again......and thats a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge company with many many eyes on it compared to anyone in the dab game. Another example might be Apple and using modems and cpus from different manufacturers, that have proven wildly varying levels of performance and battery life in what we would otherwise believe to be identical phones. If I have to open my unit and post pics to ultimately be able to say my unit has a mechanical relay in it, I will, but since I still so no other rational explanation as to why my and others units make noise, and since we have already pretty much concluded that there is infact an option to turn it off and on.....Im gonna comfortably stand by my statement and keep my focus on getting my Red Queen up and running right.

As far as handles go @biohacker , literally the easiest solution you will find, aside from wearing a glove maybe, is pull the cotton off a q-tip and thread the handle into the cap, it won't be super super tight but it WILL work great....as odd as it sounds. Don't knock the dnail dabber, EVERY ti dabber I've used in the cap transfers heat rapidly.....kinda the nature of the beast and the dnail forked tip, IMO, is one of the best dabber heads around, works with so many types of materials. While id be stoked to see them try a dnail quartz cap, with the possible exception of Mobius, Ive yet to see a glassworker than can make mass produced quartz caps with machine like accuracy, at a reasonable price, even a fraction of a mm can make a huge difference with a properly engineered setup, It would be awesome to be able to look through the cap and see your materials but I don't think we are quite their yet in manufacturing tolerances.
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
Thanks fellas, I love this thread! You guys are incredible assets to it and I am very grateful for your help and contributions! I hope I love my d-nail as much!

@JCat I didn't really look at my flat coil before I sent it off, but curious since you've had many of them, are they all fairly flat? I don't have a bench vice, so hoping for the best from high5. Surprised that d-nail coils wouldn't be "perfect" out of the gate, considering how much of an impact it has on performance. To me it feels like d-nail should flatten their coils properly before shipping. Especially for the PRICE!
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Thanks fellas, I love this thread! You guys are incredible assets to it and I am very grateful for your help and contributions! I hope I love my d-nail as much!

@JCat I didn't really look at my flat coil before I sent it off, but curious since you've had many of them, are they all fairly flat? I don't have a bench vice, so hoping for the best from high5. Surprised that d-nail coils wouldn't be "perfect" out of the gate, considering how much of an impact it has on performance. To me it feels like d-nail should flatten their coils properly before shipping. Especially for the PRICE!
I’ll have a look to double check for you ... not sure without checking ...
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
As far as handles go @biohacker , literally the easiest solution you will find, aside from wearing a glove maybe, is pull the cotton off a q-tip and thread the handle into the cap, it won't be super super tight but it WILL work great....as odd as it sounds. Don't knock the dnail dabber, EVERY ti dabber I've used in the cap transfers heat rapidly.....kinda the nature of the beast and the dnail forked tip, IMO, is one of the best dabber heads around, works with so many types of materials. While id be stoked to see them try a dnail quartz cap, with the possible exception of Mobius, Ive yet to see a glassworker than can make mass produced quartz caps with machine like accuracy, at a reasonable price, even a fraction of a mm can make a huge difference with a properly engineered setup, It would be awesome to be able to look through the cap and see your materials but I don't think we are quite their yet in manufacturing tolerances.

That's why you just machine the quartz like a Santa Cruz Shredder Omni.

A lot of people are using those wooden handle dabbers these days, I'd imagine a little wood sheathe on the dabber would keep it cool.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
A dollar worth of heat shrink solved my carb cap handle heat problem. Just saying, it works for me and I'm very temp sensitive. I agree that the forked dabber works very well with a variety of material consistencies and the 'trates melt off of it effectively, IMO. I put it on, get about 15-20 degree drop (I think) and when I see the temp bottom out and start to climb again, I dab. Works for me.

As for relays and sound....let's be clear, it seems we are talking about different switching in this discussion. Yes, there are normally open alarm relays in the Omron PID. Turn them off if not already.

But there is also an internal mechanical relay in the PID itself for switching power on/off to the coil and THIS is what should not be used and should use an external SSR for this purpose.

After putting a proper SSR into my G9 box and wiring it correctly, there is no switching power on/off sound out of my box anymore (and there was prior). Take it for what its worth.

Have great day, guys.
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
Day 7 of t-break and finally feel like a human again! :lol: Was excited to see the D-nail out for delivery, but Canada Post %#^$%* up my EXPRESSPOST delivery and the coil won't be here until tomorrow. @JCat I already let PV know to claim the refund! ;) Can't wait until tomorrow! :rockon:Imma gunna havta take'r e-z wit da low tolerance! :rofl:
 

biohacker

H.R.E.A.M
pFsreBz.jpg
 

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
@biohacker, finally got in the enail game.....should be a game changer for you, especially since you moved away from flowers....i was thinking about buying the rig for the flowerpot and would like to hear your opinion after you conclude your t-break....man, i think im on this site too much..i even know @biohacker is finishing his 1 week tbreak

Also have the d-nail sic and quartz halos and favor them over my liger

Edit: one advantage of liger is that you dont have to strategically place your dab like the halo
 

alittledabwilldoya'

Sapphire Powered Dabstronaut.
Been awhile since I've used my Halo.
It was my primary (only) travel nail, and then I broke my travel recycler and have been using less refined methods for on the go dabbing.
Anyway, yesterday was cleaning day so I hooked her up:

OuAWjt8.jpg


The open airflow pairs nicely with this piece (Ball-Cycler by Tony Hernandez).

@mixchu69 what do you prefer about the Halos vs the Liger?
 

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
Been awhile since I've used my Halo.
It was my primary (only) travel nail, and then I broke my travel recycler and have been using less refined methods for on the go dabbing.
Anyway, yesterday was cleaning day so I hooked her up:

OuAWjt8.jpg


The open airflow pairs nicely with this piece (Ball-Cycler by Tony Hernandez).

@mixchu69 what do you prefer about the Halos vs the Liger?
Im not sure if it is the WIK technology or if my flat coil is performing better than my barrel, but i can finish my dabs in less hits with equal flavor. With my liger (i have the version 2 with sic and quartz inserts), i get flavor but get a lot more vapor trails (and the density doesnt seem to be there: could be my storm cell carb cap)
 
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