COVID-19 News

[florduh]

Shopping is important in a consumer economy, no doubt. But, economic activity includes working too.

Right. If people are shopping, travelling, eating out, there are workers there to serve them. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

As to people modifying behavior, hurrah! Freedom! People making choices based on their assessment of risk is the way it should be. If their freely chosen behaviors tanks the economy, it is theirs to tank. The problems develop when our betters take those choices away.

I'll just take the economy of my home State, Floriduh. Even if there were no shutdowns, our tourism economy was going to be screwed. Just a reduction in international travellers is enough to cause widespread layoffs. That spills over into the ancillary industries servicing hotels ,convention centers, theme parks etc. Our restaurants aren't shutdown right now. Every time I go to pick up take-out... they're mostly empty.

I keep going back to the half empty Trump rally. In Oklahoma. This is like Springsteen not selling out in Jersey. There were no shutdowns causing that. Just people deciding that congregating in large groups is too risky. Florida, our third largest State, only works when people congregate in large groups (conventions/theme parks).

We can't re-run history, but the idea that never shutting down would've saved the economy doesn't hold water, to me anyway.

 

[vapirtoo]

Lets tread lightly here as we discuss this truly unprecedented pandemic.
Yes we have had others pandemics, but this time, international travel and trade
with a global market will make this difficult to corral without economic upheaval.
Basically I feel that this situation is showing the world just how bad all of our
infrastructures are. The main culprit here is the damn asymptomatic super spreaders
who have no idea what they are carrying.

 

[florduh]

Basically I feel that this situation is showing the world just how bad all of our
infrastructures are.

Couldn't agree more.

The main culprit here is the damn asymptomatic super spreaders
who have no idea what they are carrying.

That wasn't an inevitability though. There's no reason we couldn't have been administering 20 million tests a day at this point. It was a conscious choice by our government, likely to save cash. Now, it will cost everyone more in the future. This seems to be a consistent problem with Americans. Cheap out in the present, only to pay more in the future.

 

[Tranquility]

Right. If people are shopping, travelling, eating out, there are workers there to serve them. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'll just take the economy of my home State, Floriduh. Even if there were no shutdowns, our tourism economy was going to be screwed. Just a reduction in international travellers is enough to cause widespread layoffs. That spills over into the ancillary industries servicing hotels ,convention centers, theme parks etc. Our restaurants aren't shutdown right now. Every time I go to pick up take-out... they're mostly empty.

How dismissive on how people make their living. Part of the problem in thinking about essential industries or jobs, gets to who is doing the deciding. It's good to be king.

I keep going back to the half empty Trump rally. In Oklahoma. This is like Springsteen not selling out in Jersey. There were no shutdowns causing that. Just people deciding that congregating in large groups is too risky. Florida, our third largest State, only works when people congregate in large groups (conventions/theme parks).

People making free choices is a wonderful thing. Personally, I think people making the free choice of messing with a ticketing system and then blocking paths into the area are more of a "good on you" rather than a pandemic analogy.

That wasn't an inevitability though. There's no reason we couldn't have been administering 20 million tests a day at this point. It was a conscious choice by our government, likely to save cash. Now, it will cost everyone more in the future. This seems to be a consistent problem with Americans. Cheap out in the present, only to pay more in the future.

Reality is a reason.

(The article starts with Trumps claim they will be doing 5 million tests a day and the rest of the article disputes that will happen.)
Top Trump admin official says there's 'absolutely no way' US can conduct 5 million tests a day

Adm. Brett Giroir, the assistant secretary of Health and Human Services, said earlier this week that he expects the U.S. to have the capacity to conduct 2 million tests per week by the end of May.

A report released by a Harvard panel of experts in science, health and economics projects that the U.S. needs to reach 5 million tests per day by early June in order to safely relax social distancing restrictions. The group called for the testing rate to reach 20 million per day by mid-July to avoid future shutdowns.

In an interview with Time magazine, Giroir called the report's recommendations “an Ivory Tower, unreasonable benchmark."

“There is absolutely no way on Earth, on this planet or any other planet, that we can do 20 million tests a day, or even five million tests a day," Giroir said, noting that current technology would not support a testing rate at such a high level. He also said that current modeling projections didn't call for 5 million tests per day.

In fact, one of the problems we have now has to do with why we are testing. If we are testing to track and trace to eliminate breakouts, the main problem right now is not simply the number of tests being done, but how quickly the results get back. How can we shorten that time? What was the conscious choice?

 

[florduh]

How dismissive on how people make their living. Part of the problem in thinking about essential industries or jobs, gets to who is doing the deciding. It's good to be king.

No clue what you're talking about here. I just explained how the economy of my State would've been fucked in a reality where there were no lock downs too.

Personally, I think people making the free choice of messing with a ticketing system and then blocking paths into the area are more of a "good on you" rather than a pandemic analogy.

Nope. Like I said, that rally was a turning point in my understanding of the economic devastation we're all about to experience. I wanted to believe in those excuses too. There were free tickets available for that rally the day of, and hundreds of thousands of fans within driving distance. Scant evidence of protestors blocking an additional 15,000+ people from getting into the arena. They just didn't come. Protestors weren't able to prevent successful rallies pre-pandemic. The campaign's excuses don't hold water.

Reality is a reason.

There is no law of physics preventing us from doing more than 5 million tests per day. They just don't want to. As for necessity... Arizona has more active cases than the EU. We are an international embarrassment.

There's also no law of physics that prevented the government from putting together a contact tracing program over the last 5 months.

There's also no law of physics that prevented the mass manufacturing of n95 masks.

To me, it seems like the national and State governments just surrendered to the pandemic in May. The goal seems to be hoping people forget about the pandemic enough that they stop hunkering down. In my opinion, if you want people to stop hunkering down, get the outbreaks under control.

Maybe just hoping it goes away "like a miracle" will work, both in terms of public health and the economy. I tend to doubt it though.

 

[macbill]

Quarantine has caused the Karens to lose their minds

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264023530758377473

 

[Tranquility]

Nope. Like I said, that rally was a turning point in my understanding of the economic devastation we're all about to experience. I wanted to believe in those excuses too. There were free tickets available for that rally the day of, and hundreds of thousands of fans within driving distance. Scant evidence of protestors blocking an additional 15,000+ people from getting into the arena. They just didn't come. Protestors weren't able to prevent successful rallies pre-pandemic. The campaign's excuses don't hold water.

This is called building a "narrative" and belongs in the politics section. You made a claim, I provided the counter claim. If you want to start putting up proof, this has just changed to politics, again.

There is no law of physics preventing us from doing more than 5 million tests per day. They just don't want to. As for necessity... Arizona has more active cases than the EU. We are an international embarrassment.

You're right! If we can put a man on the moon...

There's also no law of physics that prevented the government from putting together a contact tracing program over the last 5 months.

What do you mean? An app we all must tattoo on our phone that keeps track of everyone we have contact with so, if anyone gets sick, the government can quarantine the rest? (And, not use that information for anything else.) A workforce that can track down contacts in the usual way but ramped up because of the huge number of cases? (Don't forget the training!)

There's also no law of physics that prevented the mass manufacturing of n95 masks.

How many more do we need? To me, the biggest resource drag has been the over-response to the ventilator panic. We're still making them at the "mass manufacturing" level and I don't think many reasonable people looking at the data would say they are still needed. Not only do they seem almost contraindicated, but also the number that need to be put on them even as a precaution, has gone down so far that no one is talking about a shortage any longer.

Yet, we're still making them.

We could get to the specific reasons why, but the actual reason is that huge ships don't just turn around. Resources and promises and supply lines and all kinds of things need to change to change course and each takes planning and negotiation to make it right.

How many more N95 masks do we need to address the fears of some that we may run out if things get worse? How big a ship should we set sail?

To me, it seems like the national and State governments just surrendered to the pandemic in May. The goal seems to be hoping people forget about the pandemic enough that they stop hunkering down. In my opinion, if you want people to stop hunkering down, get the outbreaks under control.

Maybe just hoping it goes away "like a miracle" will work, both in terms of public health and the economy. I tend to doubt it though.

The "miracle" of work. Let's get started.

 

[macbill]

After months of decline, America’s coronavirus death rate begins to rise

After mid-April, the daily death toll declined as shutdown orders took effect across the country and the virus curve began to flatten. The low point came July 5, with 217 recorded coronavirus deaths, the lowest toll since March 24, when the pandemic was in its initial upswing.
Since then, amid record-breaking case numbers in several states, the death count has begun to rise, surpassing 800 deaths each of the past four days. Although still below the highs in April and May, when more than 2,000 people per day were regularly dying from the virus, experts warn that the trend could continue to get worse.

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Theater Chains Suing New Jersey Over ‘Unconstitutional’ Closures

"By this Complaint, Plaintiffs challenge Defendants’ unconstitutional and unlawful distinctions in allowing certain places of public assembly to reopen, while requiring movie theatres to remain closed," states a complaint being led by the National Association of Theatre Owners of New Jersey.

 

[florduh]

Florida Restaurant Shuts Down After Cook Calls to Report COVID Diagnosis But 'Felt Good' -- And Dies Hours Later
"While talking to this person last night, they let us know the only symptom they had was a hard time breathing, and that they felt good about it all. Unfortunately, things changed this morning."
A popular seafood restaurant in Florida has closed after one of its employees suddenly died of COVID-19.

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'I thought this was a hoax': Patient in their 30s dies after attending 'COVID party'

“This is a party held by somebody diagnosed by the COVID virus and the thought is to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected,” Dr. Appleby said.

According to Appleby, the patient became critically ill and had a heartbreaking statement moments before death. “Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” Appleby said.

=========================================================================================

37-year-old Port Clinton war vet dies from COVID-19 complications on Fourth of July
Richard Rose in April posted on Facebook that he would not wear a mask. In an unlikely turn of events, he lost his battle with COVID-19 three months later.

Those who knew Rose described him as kind, funny, and caring.
His family said he was very active in helping homeless vets and in preventing veteran suicide.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

Guys. Stop focusing on the increasing number of cases. The only thing that matters is deaths...

Florida adds record 120 coronavirus deaths, 411 hospitalizations on Thursday
The state also added another nearly 9,000 infections on Thursday

Well, fuck.

If you ignore the increase in cases, then you ignore that fact that TOO MANY PEOPLE AREN’T GETTING WELL.

it is well known that Covid survival rates require invasive and long-term treatment. the death rate may be lower than we feared, but people STAY SICK LONGER, and downstream effects of the infection can be more disruptive than. Less than a THIRD of confirmed cases have recovered. In my county, there have been ~2000 confirmed cases, 41 deaths - and NO RECOVERIES. And
Unrecovered cases equate to longer hospital stays, more healthcare workers required, more beds occupied, more Strain on resources, more patients turned away...which all add up to crowded treatment centers, shortages of beds, equipment, personnel, protective equipment. The end result of CROWDING is spikes in the death rate as care and treatment become unavailable to new cases.

Increase of cases leads to increase of deaths in exactly the same way that increase in rainfall leads to more wet people.
If we ignore increasing numbers of infected, we ignore the signs that tell us deaths will increase.

You can always claim that “no one could have predicted” the increase, but you have to lie to yourself to believe it

Florida Restaurant Shuts Down After Cook Calls to Report COVID Diagnosis But 'Felt Good' -- And Dies Hours Later
"While talking to this person last night, they let us know the only symptom they had was a hard time breathing, and that they felt good about it all. Unfortunately, things changed this morning."
A popular seafood restaurant in Florida has closed after one of its employees suddenly died of COVID-19.

=========================================================================================

'I thought this was a hoax': Patient in their 30s dies after attending 'COVID party'

“This is a party held by somebody diagnosed by the COVID virus and the thought is to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected,” Dr. Appleby said.

According to Appleby, the patient became critically ill and had a heartbreaking statement moments before death. “Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” Appleby said.

=========================================================================================

37-year-old Port Clinton war vet dies from COVID-19 complications on Fourth of July
Richard Rose in April posted on Facebook that he would not wear a mask. In an unlikely turn of events, he lost his battle with COVID-19 three months later.

Those who knew Rose described him as kind, funny, and caring.
His family said he was very active in helping homeless vets and in preventing veteran suicide.

Rose’s post in which he would not “buy a fucking mask” was not kind, not caring, and not funny

 

[florduh]

Rose’s post in which he would not “buy a fucking mask” was not kind, not caring, and not funny

No, it was not. He had a bad opinion, and paid dearly for it. Others he interacted with may pay for it too. But I sort of doubt that opinion came from a vacuum. The media he consumed likely played a role here. There's always this too:

Lower cognitive ability linked to non-compliance with social distancing guidelines during the coronavirus outbreak

New research provides evidence that working memory is associated with engaging in social distancing in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic. The new study has been published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

 

[macbill]

I don't think that is how you wear a mask....

 

[Tranquility]

 

[Relaxed]

I don't think that is how you wear a mask....

Kieth Richards doesn't need to worry about masks, he'll live forever.

 

[DeezVaprz]

I don't think that is how you wear a mask....

Definitely not expecting this on these forums, ha!

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I don't think that is how you wear a mask....

That’s not ANY of the ways you wear a mask!

 

[FlyingLow]

LOL, my droopy sac would have bits falling all out of that mask!

 

[cybrguy]

TMI

 

[Summer]

A

I don't think that is how you wear a mask....

There s/b a smilie for stupid; stupid, old, exhibitionist.

 

[Tranquility]

That’s not ANY of the ways you wear a mask!

 

[Tranquility]

No, it was not. He had a bad opinion, and paid dearly for it. Others he interacted with may pay for it too. But I sort of doubt that opinion came from a vacuum. The media he consumed likely played a role here. There's always this too:

Lower cognitive ability linked to non-compliance with social distancing guidelines during the coronavirus outbreak

New research provides evidence that working memory is associated with engaging in social distancing in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic. The new study has been published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

A problem with social "science" like this is that you can ask many questions in many ways and get the results that explain what you want. For instance, I think this is about the opposite:
Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Manipulators Are More Likely To Engage in 'Virtuous Victim Signaling,' Says Study
New study links virtue signaling to "Dark Triad" traits. Being accused of "virtue signaling" might sound nice to the uninitiated, but spend much time on social media and you know that it's actually an accusation of insincerity. Virtue signalers are, essentially, phonies and showoffs—folks who adopt opinions and postures solely to garner praise and sympathy or whose good deeds are tainted by their need for everyone to see just how good they are. Combined with a culture that says only victimhood confers a right to comment on certain issues, it's a big factor in online pile-ons and one that certainly contributes to social media platforms being such a bummer sometimes.

So: Here's some fun new research looking at "the consequences and predictors of emitting signals of victimhood and virtue," published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. The paper—from University of British Columbia researchers Ekin Ok, Yi Qian, Brendan Strejcek, and Karl Aquino—details multiple studies the authors conducted on the subject.

Their conclusion? Psychopathic, manipulative, and narcissistic people are more frequent signalers of "virtuous victimhood."

The so-called "dark triad" personality traits—Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy—lead to characteristics like "self-promotion, emotional callousness, duplicity, and tendency to take advantage of others," the paper explains.

And "treated as a composite, the Dark Triad traits were significant predictors of virtuous victim signaling."

This held true "even when controlling for factors that may make people vulnerable to being mistreated or disadvantaged in society (i.e., demographic and socioeconomic characteristics) as well as the importance they place on being a virtuous individual as part of their self-concept," the researchers note.

They point out that virtue signaling is defined as "the conspicuous expression of moral values, done primarily with the intent of enhancing one's standing within a social group."

Meanwhile, victim signaling "may be used as a social influence tactic that can motivate recipients of the signal to voluntarily transfer resources to the signaler," they explain. More from the paper's theoretical background section:

The actual study:
Signaling Virtuous Victimhood as Indicators of Dark Triad Personalities

Personally, while there may be some interesting things in the studies, I'd be willing to bet neither one changed the opinion of the authors of them.

 

[florduh]

‘The beginning of a horror movie’? Disney World slammed as doors reopen amid spiking coronavirus cases
Florida on Sunday broke the national record for the biggest single-day number of positive coronavirus cases in any state since the beginning of the pandemic, following a week in which the Sunshine State saw 514 people die of the disease, or 73 each day, on average.

Also, Disney World is now open!
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California Nurse, 29, Dies After 26-Day Battle with Coronavirus: 'He Fought Hard,' Says Sister
A nurse and a dedicated Disney fan has died after a 26-day battle with the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).
Joshua Obra, who ran the popular Disneyland account @disneylandpanda, died on July 6, his younger sister Jasmine confirmed on Friday in an emotional Instagram post.

=========================================================================================

New York City Without Coronavirus Deaths Four Months After First Report

According to initial data reported by the NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, no one died from the virus in New York City on July 11. Officials recorded no confirmed deaths the day before as well, but did have two probable deaths.

The department's data shows there hasn't been a day without a coronavirus-related death since March 13, two days after the first reported death.

 

[Tranquility]

"Dust"

Insisting Country is Coronavirus-free, Turkmenistan Orders Mask-wearing to Combat 'Dust'

Ashgabat: Reclusive Turkmenistan on Monday recommended that residents wear masks because of "dust" even as the government insists the country is coronavirus-free.

The announcement came after a World Health Organization delegation arrived in the Central Asian country last week for a 10-day mission examining the response to the pandemic.

Turkmenistan is one of a handful of countries yet to declare coronavirus cases.

In a statement published by the state information agency, the health ministry said people should wear masks because of "high concentrations of dust" in the air.

"It is strongly recommended that everyone use personal protective equipment to protect the upper respiratory tract," the ministry said.


When I look around my room, there's, literally, dust EVERYWHERE! Good thing I'm wearing my dust mask. Everyone should do it.

Wear your dust mask! It's not political and no one is going to Karen/Shane you into it like the virus masks you keep hearing about.

The real question is, if I was a narcissistic, psychopathic manipulator BEFORE I posted or did the posting just make me one? Correlation or causation?

 

[EmDeemo]

There is no way this species is gonna meet the demands climate change, looking at the clusterfuck of how the world is dealing with covid. Good lord. We're still arguing masks? For fucks sake.

I trust people's sense on face masks - Gove

Apparently the UK can do what it wants - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53381000

PM says face coverings ‘should be worn’ in shops

Make your fucking minds up! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53388444

Coronavirus: Manicures and tattoos now possible in England as lockdown eases

Pandemic priorities on point - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53385605


What the fuck happened to this species?

 

[Tranquility]

There is no way this species is gonna meet the demands climate change, looking at the clusterfuck of how the world is dealing with covid. Good lord. We're still arguing masks? For fucks sake.

We're arguing because the science is not settled--even though some want it to be. For me? I wear a mask for you even though it puts me at greater risk. But, that is my choice because the data is equivocal. Once all the doctors shamed us about how stupid we were in regards to the mask by using a chain link fence and stopping mosquitoes analogy, we kinda didn't think they had our best interests at heart any longer.

The Face Mask Debate Reveals a Scientific Double Standard
They’re right, of course, that the research literature on mask usage doesn’t provide definitive answers. There are no large-scale clinical trials proving that personal use of masks can prevent pandemic spread; and the ones that look at masks and influenza have produced equivocal results. But this smattering of evidence doesn’t tell us much, either way: The trials neither prove that masks are useful, nor that they’re dangerous or a waste of time. That’s because the studies have been both few in number and beset with methodological problems.

As to "climate change", boy, I hope they have better models than we did for Covid.