Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

[Suki]

Not sure it's the right place to ask but the word "CBD" is too short for the search function so here I am.

I'm curious about CBD extracts.

In most EU countries, legal weed (CBD) products can contain a maximum of 0,3% THC. This rule applies for flower and for extracts & concentrates.

The flowers I get are usually @8-18% CBD & @ 0,2 % THC (according to the lab test).

How can they make concentrates that are rated @ 83% CBD and only 0,12% THC ? (Example : cannatonic wax from osmoz).

Unless they separate the THC from the extract, it should be in higher concentration... does someone knows the process of making these products ?

CBD hash shows ratios of CBD/THC that are much more plausible given it's only resin and can't be cleaned.

I'm trying to know if I need to avoid CBD extracts.

What are your thoughts you US experts ?

just like with many CBD flowers they "wash" the THC away with chemicals, I know that no legal concentrate in EU are unaltered because it is already hard to get 0.3% THC on flowers, so when you do extraction on these 0.3% THC flowers you get way higher THC percentages, I would stay away from anything CBD in EU to be honest, but yes especially extracts. I'm sure all CBD shops will tell you the opposite and they all proudly say "non lowered flowers" and "unaltered products" everywhere. you can PM me if you want to talk more in depth about the subject, don't want to hijack the thread.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

just like with many CBD flowers they "wash" the THC away with chemicals, I know that no legal concentrate in EU are unaltered because it is already hard to get 0.3% THC on flowers, so when you do extraction on these 0.3% THC flowers you get way higher THC percentages, I would stay away from anything CBD in EU to be honest, but yes especially extracts. I'm sure all CBD shops will tell you the opposite and they all proudly say "non lowered flowers" and "unaltered products" everywhere. you can PM me if you want to talk more in depth about the subject, don't want to hijack the thread.

Thanks for the reply @Suki !
I understand extracts can be washed off their THC, but I don't see how you could do that with flower without damaging the glandular trichromes. I mean that looking at the flower with a magnifier, if the glands are intacts then it haven't been washed.

I've recently found some organic / permaculture breeders and growers that are really not into that kind of stuff. And their flower have low ratios of CBD or CBG (under 10%) and very low ratios of THC (under 0.2%). Their flower are definitely of the highest quality and unaltered. Surprisingly they are quite effective, despite the low cannabinoids values.

I think that good CBD genetics have emerged nowadays.

But I'll follow your advice and stay away from extracts and concentrates... except my grinder hash and dry sift.

 

[Suki]

Thanks for the reply @Suki !
I understand extracts can be washed off their THC, but I don't see how you could do that with flower without damaging the glandular trichromes. I mean that looking at the flower with a magnifier, if the glands are intacts then it haven't been washed.

I've recently found some organic / permaculture breeders and growers that are really not into that kind of stuff. And their flower have low ratios of CBD or CBG (under 10%) and very low ratios of THC (under 0.2%). Their flower are definitely of the highest quality and unaltered. Surprisingly they are quite effective, despite the low cannabinoids values.

I think that good CBD genetics have emerged nowadays.

But I'll follow your advice and stay away from extracts and concentrates... except my grinder hash and dry sift.

I believe they use CO2 to "wash" the THC away, I don't know if the process damages the trichomes but yeah I know that there are official strains from the EU catalog that breeders can choose from, still I've heard multiple times that the THC % varies a lot and unfortunately breeders (for those playing fair and not washing) sometimes have to harvest earlier than would be ideal simply to keep THC low enough that they won't break the law.
Cannabis is a magical plant but now magical enough that genetics will give you a fixed and locked 0.3% of THC unfortunately, the laws around drugs are stupid if you ask me and this number 0.3 is meaningless. Even with the best photo period most stable genetics there still always be variation in the cannabinoids % and we're talking about multiple percents, not 0.1 or 0.2%. Still I'm sure there are decent farms with "quality" products (for 0.3% THC products anyway), but I think the good stuff is more around 1:1 ratio if we're talking about CBD and its actual potential therapeutic effects

 

[cybrguy]

So my brother discovered that he had CHS sometime in 2021 I believe. Due to that, he can't use concentrates anymore because they set him off. He also finds that vaping is more of a trigger than combusting so he is mostly combusting smaller amounts. He opened a drawer in his house the other day and realized he has a bunch of concentrates in a drawer that had never even been opened. Pretty much all of them have expiration dates in 2021. There is badder and sugar and wax. I'm sure there's nothing dangerous about old concentrate, but I guess there is a good likelihood that it will have lost potency. Is there any downside to using it other than it being weak?

 

[florduh]

Is there any downside to using it other than it being weak?

Nahhh. It might have a lot of CBN and not a lot of terps. But nothing bad. I bet it's good mild sleepy time medicine

So my brother discovered that he had CHS sometime in 2021 I believe. Due to that, he can't use concentrates anymore because they set him off. He also finds that vaping is more of a trigger than combusting so he is mostly combusting smaller amounts.

Dry herb vaping and dabbing are nearly identical when compared to combustion. Either way, everything we're inhaling is cannabinoids, flavonoids, and terps.

 

[Shit Snacks]

So my brother discovered that he had CHS sometime in 2021 I believe. Due to that, he can't use concentrates anymore because they set him off. He also finds that vaping is more of a trigger than combusting so he is mostly combusting smaller amounts. He opened a drawer in his house the other day and realized he has a bunch of concentrates in a drawer that had never even been opened. Pretty much all of them have expiration dates in 2021. There is badder and sugar and wax. I'm sure there's nothing dangerous about old concentrate, but I guess there is a good likelihood that it will have lost potency. Is there any downside to using it other than it being weak?

Yeah totally fine, just won't be quite as good, as if they were stored in a cold place like the fridge, but they definitely last well past the listed expiration dates... Yeah I don't know if it is universally true that vaping aggravates him, perhaps just whatever type of vaping with whatever herbs etc he was using then, way too many variables unfortunately

 

[cybrguy]

I wonder if the entourage effect of dry herb when compared to concentrates is what makes it work better for him. Some component that still resides in the flower, but is removed from the concentrate.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I wonder if the entourage effect of dry herb when compared to concentrates is what makes it work better for him. Some component that still resides in the flower, but is removed from the concentrate.

Oh yeah flower definitely more full spectrum, but not all flower is created equal, and there is more full spectrum concentrate... so many different ways to consume too, different strains grows etc along with processing and types of concentrate, too much to science!

 

[florduh]

I wonder if the entourage effect of dry herb when compared to concentrates is what makes it work better for him. Some component that still resides in the flower, but is removed from the concentrate.

Maybe. It would be cool to see research into CHS. But if herb vaping causes more symptoms than combustion it might be because he's getting less THC due to the fire destroying it.

I always assumed CHS is caused by THC but you bring up a good point. The entourage effect might change how the disease manifests.

 

[Vitolo]

CHS is caused by THC

I have known only one patient with this syndrome (and one friend/forum member who publicly shared). The patient was a long time heavy duty smoker until he moved to Vapor.
I have in the past pondered whether or not Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome could somehow be related
to that point when one's physiology becomes fully "Saturated" by the needed cannabinoids, causing any further absorption to be counter productive. It would stand to reason that a signal would be transmitted through our complex system that it is time to accept no further constituents or even expel them.
Just a thought from a while back, not based on any evidence.

 

[cybrguy]

When my brother was first diagnosed, there were only 12 known, verified patients diagnosed with CHS that his doctor could find data on. There are thousands now, and some researchers are predicting that there may be millions. They originally were treating him for pancreatitis because that's what the symptoms he was having suggested. It is only since cannabis has become legal in more places that people are admitting to their doctors and to the emergency rooms that they are chronic cannabis smokers. I told my doctor many years ago that I was a cannabis user, and he would not help me get a med card. He truly knows nothing about cannabis. That is something that is changing. And, of course, getting a med card in Illinois is now just a matter of going to a website and talking to a doctor online.

 

[AndyO]

I saw my doctor this week and got a couple of scripts for diamonds and shatter.

I asked some really basic questions about concentrates last week, I've come up with a couple of options.

1. Just getting a quartz banger and using my Screwball upside down to heat it to consistent temps.
2. Getting a Mini Nail kit w/Quartz Banger
3. Getting a Core 2.1 e-rig

Obviously option 1 is the easiest and cheapest, but the least "tailor made" - and it'll still require a temp gun.

But options 2 & 3, as well as being tailor-made options, are slightly more attractive because of the upcoming total ban on vape stores selling vapes in Australia - I might literally only have a week left to buy the e-rig if that's they option I go with. (I think the Mini-nail would be ok, I think this store are taking on the ban when it comes to coil/ball vapes.)

I wanted to see how I went with concentrates before spending too much money on it, but I'm up against that hard deadline in 8 days.

edit: The Puffco Pro is also currently available if anyone has a strong argument for that - it's another one that I think may disappear in a week.

 

[LesPlenty]

The Puffco Pro is also currently available if anyone has a strong argument for that

I never use bangers anymore, the Core is not regulated by a thermocouple like a peak pro. I have a Peak Pro and just got a Peak Pro2 from Ausvapes for about AU$500 to get ahead of the ban, not cheap now though, trying to gouge us before they go belly up with the ban?

Puffco Peak Pro Vaporizer

The Peak Pro sets a new benchmark for concentrate consumption technology, providing a superior and elevated experience. Whether you're a beginner or a connoisseur, it offers an efficient and seamless way to enjoy the magic of concentrates.

www.australianvaporizers.com.au

A cheaper option than the Peak is the Pockety, also thermocouple controlled for chaz free vaping.

 

[AndyO]

I never use bangers anymore, the Core is not regulated by a thermocouple like a peak pro. I have a Peak Pro and just got a Peak Pro2 from Ausvapes for about AU$500 to get ahead of the ban, not cheap now though, trying to gouge us before they go belly up with the ban?

Puffco Peak Pro Vaporizer

The Peak Pro sets a new benchmark for concentrate consumption technology, providing a superior and elevated experience. Whether you're a beginner or a connoisseur, it offers an efficient and seamless way to enjoy the magic of concentrates.

www.australianvaporizers.com.au

A cheaper option than the Peak is the Pockety, also thermocouple controlled for chaz free vaping.

I think I've ruled that out... and I don't know what thermocouple is! I think it's just going to be too expensive, especially when every review I've read/watched is like "yeah, the New Peak Pro is nice to have, but it's not hundreds of dollars better than the Core 2.1."

The thing that's making me hesitate on the Core is the cost of accessories from overseas.

Are you able to tell me the diameter of the mouth hole on the Puffco please? I'd love to know whether I could stick a whip into that and run it through another bong. (Those were the accessories that were driving the cost of the Core up.)

The other thing that makes me hesitate is that I just have no experience with Puffco. But Crossing Technologies? In the Ruby Twist they made what I think is my favourite vape of 2024, and IMO the best value "ball" vape on the market. It gives me a lot of confidence in the Core 2.1 despite it being much cheaper.

Of course, when it came to dry herb vapes, I barely use battery power, I use my Anvil and my ball vapes. There's a chance this is all a waste of time and I'll end up with a blowtorch and a banger....

 

[LesPlenty]

Are you able to tell me the diameter of the mouth hole on the Puffco please? I'd love to know whether I could stick a whip into that and run it through another bong. (Those were the accessories that were driving the cost of the Core up.)

A thermo couple actually measures the bottom of the bowl temps to keep them steady, core and others just keep pumping power unintelligently.
The Pockrty (also has a thermocouple controlled atty) has a special glass adapter to hook up to a bong,

https://jcvap.com/product/pockety-glass-whip/

 

[AndyO]

A thermo couple actually measures the bottom of the bowl temps to keep them steady, core and others just keep pumping power unintelligently.
The Pockrty (also has a thermocouple controlled atty) has a special glass adapter to hook up to a bong,

https://jcvap.com/product/pockety-glass-whip/

I was just in the Flower Kettle thread... I think I'm about to do something really crazy.

There's been a couple of instances over the last month where I've been looking for a particular functionality, and the answer has been "Flower Kettle/Electropath."

I was really close to getting the Electropath bowl anyway... but I'm pretty sure the Flower Kettle also acts as an e-nail with the "dish" in the top (cos it also comes with a carb cap.)

Crazy that I went from thinking the New Peak Pro was too expensive, to being very close to pulling the trigger on something twice as expensive... friggen VAS. (Although the e-nail on an existing ball vape was always my preferred option, but I couldn't find the parts to re-house my B1 - again - anywhere locally.)

 

[Vitolo]

I love the Core.
I have the Peak, and the Flower Kettle/Electropath combo also loving them.
All very different.
I am happy with all 3 but find the Core easiest and fastest to use and clean.
When going for a fast. rich, thick, and easy Dab, I choose the Core.

 

[RustyOldNail]

CORE 2!
I have a bunch of ways and devices to consume concentrates. If I could only have one, I’d choose the inexpensive Core 2, not the 2.1, as I like the ability to use the rebuildable atomizers. As all the parts are cheap enough, I always bought them, but I have yet to replace the original one. Granted, I swab immediately after a session, and often remove the atomizer, to clean the reclaim build up underneath, and do a few burn off cycles on a separate ECig mod, using the CUB adapter. My glazed white ceramic bowl looks new, NO chasing. This device doesn’t need a thermocouple, in my opinion. There are 4 temp presets, that can all boil the concentrates, and you can easily look into the bowl to see when you want to cap and hit it, or you can wait for the device vibration.
There are certainly many devices in this category, but few at this price point that deliver consistent hits.
My suggestion for newbies in this area, buy the least expensive option, before spending far more….
Good luck on your hunt!

 

[AndyO]

I love the Core.
I have the Peak, and the Flower Kettle/Electropath combo also loving them.
All very different.
I am happy with all 3 but find the Core easiest and fastest to use and clean.
When going for a fast. rich, thick, and easy Dab, I choose the Core.

CORE 2!
I have a bunch of ways and devices to consume concentrates. If I could only have one, I’d choose the inexpensive Core 2, not the 2.1, as I like the ability to use the rebuildable atomizers. As all the parts are cheap enough, I always bought them, but I have yet to replace the original one. Granted, I swab immediately after a session, and often remove the atomizer, to clean the reclaim build up underneath, and do a few burn off cycles on a separate ECig mod, using the CUB adapter. My glazed white ceramic bowl looks new, NO chasing. This device doesn’t need a thermocouple, in my opinion. There are 4 temp presets, that can all boil the concentrates, and you can easily look into the bowl to see when you want to cap and hit it, or you can wait for the device vibration.
There are certainly many devices in this category, but few at this price point that deliver consistent hits.
My suggestion for newbies in this area, buy the least expensive option, before spending far more….
Good luck on your hunt!

Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.

Is there anything that you need to buy for the Core 2.1 from a maintenance perspective? The local store that stocks them here in Australia doesn't have any accessories at all. Which kind of makes me assume that there's nothing else you need to buy eg. a spare ceramic bowl. (I note your comment @RustyOldNail that yours still looks new.)

I think I've boiled the decision down to the Core 2.1, or getting the Flower Kettle (+ Electropath) for its broad range of functionality including as an e-nail...

There's every chance I can't decide between 2 very different style of device, and I end up with both of them.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Is there anything that you need to buy for the Core 2.1 from a maintenance perspective?

Just some QTIPS!

 

[AndyO]

In a move that absolutely aligns with my indecisive personality, rather than decide on one option, I've gone with at least 2. I did this because, as I mentioned earlier in the threads, these vapes might only be available to buy in Australia until this Sunday.

I've gone with the Core 2.1, and both units were cheap enough for me to also take a gamble on the Xmax Riggo.

I still think I'm likely to pick up a Flower Kettle and Electropath too, just cos I think I'd get a lot of use out of both parts together and apart, modular with other devices, and using different materials. I was so close to ordering an Electropath before I was even thinking about concentrates.