Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
I think it smacks of excuses. Mostly if a genuinely good (and especially small) business has some sort of personal emergency that effects customer service, the first thing they do as soon as they get the chance is email out everyone to explain the situation, at least in terms of how they intend to manage it even if things are a bit late - at least people know what to expect then.

I find it's the not knowing, and not getting a response, that creates anxiety and stress. And it can be interesting how effecting that can be for all it's apparent lack of relative importance (it's not as bad as some mishaps!). I find it so triggering I only buy from a trusted supplier nowadays. Mind, over here suppliers are not so easy to find and deal with, us lot still running all over the place with the Keystone Kops hot on our trail! 😏
Buster Keaton would have loved it here!

Haha yeah that's what I've said, if that was the situation an email blast explaining the situation and reason for any delays would have gone a long way... Seems like the California thing was a separate excuse as others who ordered at the same time received theirs promptly as I was in dark
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
Holy Shit, I forgot how much I hate dealing with shatter.

Gotta go to the weed store tomorrow and pick up some rosin. But for now, all I have left in the concentrate department is this 6-8 month old shatter that I was gonna use to make tincture someday. It was wrapped pretty tight and kept in the butter drawer of the fridge, but it's really about the consistency of this shit. I tried to get it off the wax paper it was wrapped in and it "shatters" into little shards of glass that become statically charged and get start sticking to every fucking thing around. I think I got one little piece of shard into the bowl for every 10,000 pieces that are now stuck to the table, the sides of the concentrate container, my fingers and finger nails.... I was ready to just throw the whole fucking thing away.

It did get me good and high, but the flavor leaves something to be desired.

Is there a way to de-statically charge the shards? Should I have been holding an aluminum rod in one hand and worn glass shoes before touching it or something? What a cold-hearted bitch that was.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Honestly I've never had to deal with it myself, dabs I got from Preston Hemp Co were pretty nice, and I have some more coming from WNC now, plus one more hopefully final heady dab rig... Then I need to just invest in better dab heating equipment!
 

FlyingLow

Team NO SLEEP!
I've been there! Fucking nightmare!

Sure, I have had some wonderful shatter, some that was easily manageable and less PIA to work with, but I have avoided it for years. A few of bad experiences has taught me to write off what you describe as a loss. Take what you can and collect it as a fat dirty dab with the table dust, rip it, and just wipe everything down with ISO and write it off.... and if it shattered into your clothes, carpet, linen, etc. that sticky never comes out.
 

Vitolo

Vaporist
I forgot how much I hate dealing with shatter
The only way I have fun with shatter is in a wide mouth glass shallow dish or jar, using a dab straw (especially a glass one).
This allows one to keep working with a re-hardening puddle of the shatter, and never having to handle it.
honey.jpg
 
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CANtalk

Well-Known Member
I've been low temp cold start dabbing some good HTFSE & live resin in pics here for a few years now 👍. They've been excellent & frankly similar in high. OTOH, I've had some beauty honey shatter (w/ pics shared here) that compares pretty good in vaping & high. I also would say that medium shaded to dark shatter is not near as good. Shatter can do reasonably well comparison-wise for high, depending on the quality imo :goat:

Patience & a dab loading tool in my experience helps a lot @BabyFacedFinster, maybe a quick water application to the shatter package (sealed), dab loading tool, dab holder, etc. Or wet hands before handling (to remove static issues)

:peace: :leaf:
 
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RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
If it’s real shatter that is still hard at room temperature, that’s my favorite to deal with.
Only problem I have is slowly scrapping it out of the paper wrap into my silicone containers. That’s when static is one issue, but I try to only open one end of the wrapper, then slowly scrap into container. Pieces can fly, if not careful. Once it’s in the container, it’s easier for me to use one of many small different sized scoops I have to load various devices. I prefer hard shatter, then dealing with gooey wax concentrates. Sometimes I freeze loose concentrates just to make handling them easier.
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
Thanks for the support, folks. I have dealt with shatter before, but it was always dissolved in everclear to make a nighttime tincture. I never had this much trouble getting it out of the god damn wax paper. Usually you just open one end and it chutes right out with a little paper crinkling. This fucker last night was like the devil. Diablo :evil:

I was picking bits of it off my fucking eyeglasses, the coffee table, my socks.

I picked up some nice snotty live resin today, so I may toss it because the flavor was like old shoes. Still, it did get me high.
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
Did you “decarb” it first, or after?
I have one of those little decarb devices you can get on Amazon. I put the shatter into a 50ml beaker and drop it in the device at 240F for 50-60 minutes ( I want it to be extra sleepy). When the bubbling slows I add my everclear from a measured syringe after the decarb process. Then use the lowest setting for a few minutes to help warm and dissolve the mixture.

I use an IR thermometer once or twice to check that it's really at temp. Those things can get wonky, but for the most part you're near 240F through most of the decarb.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Distillate is straight garbo for dabbing. But it's already decarbed. If the dispo is selling disty syringes for cheap, that's like an 800-900 mg edible. You can dissolve it in MCT oil or alcohol.

The mail order hemp THCA rosin is different than distillate right? Definitely seems nicer, but not full spectrum in that way it could be
 
Shit Snacks,

florduh

Well-Known Member
The mail order hemp THCA rosin is different than distillate right? Definitely seems nicer, but not full spectrum in that way it could be

Yeah, the rosin wouldn't be decarbed like disty. Distillate isn't full spectrum though. It's just a cheap way to get a lot of THC. Wouldn't trust it with my lungs, given how it's made. But my liver? Sure, have at it.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah, the rosin wouldn't be decarbed like disty. Distillate isn't full spectrum though. It's just a cheap way to get a lot of THC. Wouldn't trust it with my lungs, given how it's made. But my liver? Sure, have at it.

Haha yeah that's what I'm saying, neither is full spectrum, but the rosin is better at least
 
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General Disaster

A Country Member
I'd take with a pinch of salt if I were you. This may be what is supposed to be the case, but it's down to the manufacturer following processes correctly and including all stages. Every stage equates to loss of final product weight. e.g. with decarbing, even if it ws possible to do it with zero loss from the reaction (impossible to do in real life) you still have a smaller weight, because you've made the THC molecule smaller (and thus lighter). makes no difference to the dosage when used (except you need a tiny tiny bit less), but the stuff is sold by weight.

So it benefits a maker to not do all the processes they should! (although their product obviously lacks the quality of others, even if unnoticeable). Amounts may seem small but bulk production makes it effect profits. Where possible always stick to formally tested and certified products, or stick to known and trusted suppliers. I'm sure most are fine, but not always.

On a tangent, I just thought about decarbing on reading the messages above, and realised those bubbles are most likely from CO² being formed from the carboxylic group (COOH) on the cannabinoid. The heat breaks down the functional group, taking the one hydrogen to bond in the carboxyl groups place, leaving a free COO (or CO² as normally known) to be given off as a gas.

So the act of decarbing has a carbon cost! It pollutes the air and contributes to global warming! Ok, you're going to need to do a LOT of this to even make the smallest detectable difference, it's the thought that counts! 🤣🤣🤣
(well I thought it was funny, anyway!)
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
I'd take with a pinch of salt if I were you. This may be what is supposed to be the case, but it's down to the manufacturer following processes correctly and including all stages. Every stage equates to loss of final product weight. e.g. with decarbing, even if it ws possible to do it with zero loss from the reaction (impossible to do in real life) you still have a smaller weight, because you've made the THC molecule smaller (and thus lighter). makes no difference to the dosage when used (except you need a tiny tiny bit less), but the stuff is sold by weight.
Using disty darts for tincture would work out fine in process. The concern for me is that's a THC bomb which would get me high, wouldn't give me the sedative effects I'm looking for. The painstaking process of the correct decarb, which for me is a bit extra heat for a slightly longer decarb, gives me more sedative effects (as least in my mind.) I also try to find shatter that claims to be indica based. Now RSO might be a good idea to try. I can get those darts for the same price as a disty dart.
On a tangent, I just thought about decarbing on reading the messages above, and realised those bubbles are most likely from CO² being formed from the carboxylic group (COOH) on the cannabinoid. The heat breaks down the functional group, taking the one hydrogen to bond in the carboxyl groups place, leaving a free COO (or CO² as normally known) to be given off as a gas.
That's exactly the whole purpose of the decarb. When the molecules give up the carboxyl group, they become neutral at those sites and can bind with our neuros.
 
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Cheebsy

Microbe minion
On a tangent, I just thought about decarbing on reading the messages above, and realised those bubbles are most likely from CO² being formed from the carboxylic group (COOH) on the cannabinoid.
Yeah, in fact, as taught to me by this forum, it's the main indicator I use to decide to stop decarbing rosin when the bubbles slow down.
 
Cheebsy,

General Disaster

A Country Member
Using disty darts for tincture would work out fine in process. The concern for me is that's a THC bomb which would get me high, wouldn't give me the sedative effects I'm looking for.
I wouldn't know what a 'disty dart' is if it hit me in the arse! Google seems to agree, and insists it's a pub game (though that is the .co.uk version! Us rosbifs tend to be a little backward y'know! 😉).
Not quite sure how this relates? I was only talking about manufactured products on the market.

That's exactly the whole purpose of the decarb. When the molecules give up the carboxyl group, they become neutral at those sites and can bind with our neuros.
Yes, I'm familiar, I used to work in chemistry and pharmacology. It was a nerd joke to do with the chemical reaction and it's products, specifically carbon dioxide, nothing more than that! 🙂

(and just to split hairs and annoy everyone (my favourite pastime), it's the CB1 and CB2 endocannabinoid receptors that they bind to (or not) and these are not just found in nerve cells, many are in all sorts of organs around the body! 😊
Of course once you consider the entourage effect with all the terpenoids involved, this is where the sedative/head-high differences come in, with the higher boiling point compounds being expressed more with high temperature extractions. These terpenes may or may not be present anyway, depending on strain, batch, method of extraction, etc etc. Thus is why many people get a very head-high effect from 'purer' thc preparations with fewer of the original profile of compounds present, though over-heating when vaped (or pre-processed) can result in terpene degradation, where they break into smaller 2 or 3 carbon chain unstable compounds, reforming into new compounds on cooling (mostly toxic or carcinogenic, though very small amounts usually).
The use of the terms indica and sativa are becoming rapidly less and less useful, as it's becoming clear it's much more to do with the profile of cannabinoids and other terpenes that gives the strain it's effects, and this also is rather dependent on the persons metabolic processes and the other aspects of cannabis processing within the body. They can give a vague indication, but not a reliable one unfortunately).
 
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BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
I wouldn't know what a 'disty dart' is if it hit me in the arse! Google seems to agree, and insists it's a pub game (though that is the .co.uk version! Us rosbifs tend to be a little backward y'know! 😉).
Not quite sure how this relates? I was only talking about manufactured products on the market.
Sorry, it's just the slang term around here for a 1g distillate syringe sold in the dispensaries.
 

General Disaster

A Country Member
Sorry, it's just the slang term around here for a 1g distillate syringe sold in the dispensaries.
Doh! i feel so stoopid now! 🤣
Ta!

Just thinking then on what you meant (ignoring my long BS above) about decarb and not altering the profile (so it still has essentially the same properties? Yes?).
First off you have to differentiate between whether you intend vaping or smoking it (inhalation of some sort) vs. oral consumption (lets leave sublingual out it for now). If you going to be inhaling it, then the decarboxylation occurs at that point, and there's no need to decarb it first.
But if you intend taking the oral route, which changes the profile of cannabinoids and terpenes anyway, since your digestive system takes it through a different metabolic pathway through the body before hitting the receptors and different reactions take place with the cannabinoids et al, then you also need to pre-decarb it if it hasn't been already.

Then, you're getting into the territory of how the decarb process can effect the product, which I think is where you were coming from? Correct me if I'm wrong please!!
(too late, I'm carrying on...😉)

So then it's down to the method used as to how it comes out, depending on the strain/batch and the quantity (sometimes). I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that there are many active compounds in cannabis and they have a range of properties like solubility and boiling point etc.
So if your decarb process goes above a certain temperature, for a more than a certain time, depending on the above variables, and even down to the type of container it's in (blah blah), then you're going to start losing some of those lighter boiling point compounds. It's not like those boiling point charts for terpenes, they don't cleanly boil off one at a time like petroleum in a fractionating tower, they merge and mix, but essentially the higher the temp, the more they evaporate.

Now it appears that the major compounds that give that sedative effect for many people seem to be in the higher range of boiling points, or more accurately to say, it's when exposed to higher temperatures they seem to be more prevalent, for whatever the reason. Conversely it also seems for many that eschewing the higher temp range for more of the lower boiling point compounds often gives more of a psychedelic or head high. But these are trends not absolutes, so when some say otherwise, that may be very true from their perspective, making the whole thing difficult to discuss accurately. (I could go into the nature of perceptions vs reality, and the brain functions involved, etc, but rather off topic I think! 😂).

So basically my thoughts on decarbing, for whatever they're really worth (your own conclusions are better than mine, because at least you know you're not lying or bullshitting yourself even if wrong, but you can't be 100% sure about me! (or anyone else you don't know)), are that the best method gives the most steady and consistent and accurate temperature change control. Something like a kitchen food oven is not the way to go. It'll work, but never be consistent or give you the fine control over it. There are products on the market that do this, and I expect they ain't too bad, but I suspect it'll be a matter of getting what you pay for. I honestly don't know what the best items are, but i bet many here would know much more and have used some of them.

If I was into making edibles (and hence needed to decarb) then if I wanted the most consistent and less likely to damage method, without any pricey equipment, I'd be tempted to use a basic pressure cooker. It's get's too almost the exact temp you'd likely want, but never go over and spoil anything! You could put damp weed in there (as long as it's cured) as it's going to get wet anyway. It would need to be placed in a container inside, and kept above the small layer of water so only the steam touches it (or it becomes a right mess to remove and drain with some oils going into the water and thus lost!). But it's very consistent, gentle on the compounds, but should be enough to decarb them properly, and can be left going for hours! Just like cooking a stew! 🤣 Obviously you'd want to dry it out after to remove the excess dampness, before going on to process in whatever way you intend.

Now it may be that for your particular tastes you found it didn't quite get hot enough, it may be it's not the best method, but from the point of view of a repeatable and reliable chemical reaction in a non-lab environment, that's also safe, I think it could take a lot of beating over many other methods, but not being into edibles, I don't decarb so haven't tried it. But it has many good lab practices for the nature of the reaction.
 
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General Disaster,

LordOfTheVapes

Well-Known Member
I really like using this that I got a few months ago with a couple of 6mm pearls with the OH-TR and might grab a couple more:
Very efficient and easy to quickly swab clean.
I’m also crazy for round bottom for the same reasons and ability to keep perfectly clean for year or longer. I also LOVE the way oil pools back to the bottom if a reheat is necessary.

True wisdom has been bestowed upon me here; really efficient experience--absolutely love it. :nod:
I'll have to try the 6-stack knot soon :science:
 

muunch

hotboxing the cockpit
@invertedisdead - any downsides to switching to solely rosin?

duration? etc... I'm trying to run through my mind now of possible downsides, and I'm not sure if I could find any... but I also lack the experience that others have with rosin.

5 years later n I made the switch a few years ago - rly only smoke rosin now, and focus a lot of my effort on growing my own and processing for myself and friends.

funny seeing all my posts in this thread now :rofl:

latest batch of chem cookies cold cure i made:

IMG-1423.png
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
5 years later n I made the switch a few years ago - rly only smoke rosin now, and focus a lot of my effort on growing my own and processing for myself and friends.

funny seeing all my posts in this thread now :rofl:

latest batch of chem cookies cold cure i made:

IMG-1423.png

And I own a dry herb vaporizer company now😂

Next gen Concentrate gear coming up soon though 🛸🚀🛸🚀
 
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